OT: SF Giants 2023

wco81 · Post #1 » by **wco81** » Wed Feb 8, 2023 10:11 pm

Making small moves mostly in the offseason.

Apparently they have some big hopes for Harrison, that he could skip AAA and directly play in the majors.

https://baseball.realgm.com/wiretap/55606/Giants-Invite-Prospect-Kyle-Harrison-Stephen-Piscotty-To-Spring-Camp

Or at least come to spring training and see if he surprises or at least spend some time in the majors this season.

https://baseball.realgm.com/wiretap/55606/Giants-Invite-Prospect-Kyle-Harrison-Stephen-Piscotty-To-Spring-Camp

After the big FA misses, nobody expects much out of the team, especially with the rest of the division so strong.

Well they had the one season, 2021. But otherwise, not much better after Zaidi's arrival than before.

The farm system is middling at best while top teams have both better ML rosters as well as better prospects.

wco81 · Post #2 » by **wco81** » Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:35 pm

Bad trade by Farhan?

Now, less than a year after the May 2022 trade, hard-throwing Berroa is turning heads in Mariners camp as Walton recovers from offseason shoulder surgery, prompting quite the assessment from one major league scout.

"Prelander Berroa for Donnie Walton might have been the worst trade of 2022,” an American League scout told Ryan Divish of The Seattle Times. “And it might not be close.”

Berroa originally was acquired by the Giants in the Sam Dyson trade with the Minnesota Twins in 2019.

Berroa impressed the Mariners in their Cactus League opener Friday, with a fastball in the upper 90s, a mid-80s slider and a revamped changeup, per Divish. Berroa struck out San Diego Padres stars like Xander Bogaerts and Nelson Cruz.

While many view Berroa as an eventual big league reliever, Divish noted the Mariners likely will continue to work him as a starter in the minors this season ahead of a potential MLB debut. Walton will be out until May after his surgery, and the Giants certainly hope he'll be ready to contribute upon his recovery.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/mlb-scout-roasts-giants-worst-trade-2022-prelander-berroa-swap?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs

tarantism · Post #3 » by **tarantism** » Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:33 pm

I'll admit I have low expectations but I'm not as tuned in as a few others here. Mostly I anticipate a ho-hum season culminating in a Wild Card push. From there who knows.

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tal57 · Post #4 » by **tal57** » Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:53 pm

tarantism wrote:I'll admit I have low expectations but I'm not as tuned in as a few others here. Mostly I anticipate a ho-hum season culminating in a Wild Card push. From there who knows.

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Same here. Although I am very skeptical, even for the wild card push. I'll buy maybe relatively staying in contention for most of the season if they have strong start. Otherwise, they have to have another miraculous season like 2021 to make noise. There are 2 teams in NL West and 3 teams in NL East who are considered much better than the Giants. Two will win the division, which leaves 3 teams plus 1 more from NL Central (Mil or St Louis) vying for the Wild card besides the Giants. Meaning Giants have to upstage 4 out of the 7 teams on paper considered better than they are just to reach the wild card.

wco81 · Post #5 » by **wco81** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:47 am

Padres are giving Machado a $350 million extension so they are going all-in.

If they don't win, there's going to be a big reckoning down there.

I thought teams down there struggled to draw.

tal57 · Post #6 » by **tal57** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:19 pm

I think the Giants pitchers should be sent an urgent memo. If the intent for the team to finish 2023 with the .500 record, they absolutely can't give up more than one run per game.

tarantism · Post #7 » by **tarantism** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:46 pm

tal57 wrote:I think the Giants pitchers should be sent an urgent memo. If the intent for the team to finish 2023 with the .500 record, they absolutely can't give up more than one run per game.

Classic Giants baseball, baby!

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GswStorm3 · Post #8 » by **GswStorm3** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:25 am

I honestly wish we did a Marlins type tear down and rebuild. If we're going to be bad I'd rather watch a youth movement than this mediocre roster Zaidi has assembled.

tal57 · Post #9 » by **tal57** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:26 am

GswStorm3 wrote:I honestly wish we did a Marlins type tear down and rebuild. If we're going to be bad I'd rather watch a youth movement than this mediocre roster Zaidi has assembled.

The ownership loves Zaidi. 15th in payroll, second in the entire league in profit.
I never imagined anyone upstaging Sabean in dumpster diving. In 5 years Zaidi had left him in the dust.

Swift21 · Post #10 » by **Swift21** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:07 am

tal57 wrote:
GswStorm3 wrote:I honestly wish we did a Marlins type tear down and rebuild. If we're going to be bad I'd rather watch a youth movement than this mediocre roster Zaidi has assembled.

The ownership loves Zaidi. 15th in payroll, second in the entire league in profit.
I never imagined anyone upstaging Sabean in dumpster diving. In 5 years Zaidi had left him in the dust.

Attendance will continue to drop.

wco81 · Post #11 » by **wco81** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:50 pm

Where do you get numbers about profitability?

This is Zaidi's fifth season, since taking over in Nov 2018.

But it won't be 5 full normal seasons because of two seasons disrupted by the pandemic.

I don't know if that buys him more rope with the owners or not.

If not for that 107 win season, it's hard to argue keeping him but the assumption is that his hands have been tied and he hasn't expressed wanting to spend big.

However, one thing he should have impacted more is the farm system and it's still average at best.

It's been a long long time since they generated all stars. Has Logan Webb been an All Star? He's performed at an All Star level for good stretches but other than him, who's come out of the farm system and become at least an above average starter?

Have the players Zaidi drafted shown any more promise than those drafted by his predecessors?

I don't think so.

Unless they sign big stars, I don't see this team contending until the next decade because the Dodgers and Padres have big stars who are still in their primes (or even before their prime like Soto) for the next 4-5 seasons.

It's the bleakest outlook in several decades, probably the old Candlestick days, before Bonds.

wco81 · Post #12 » by **wco81** » Thu May 18, 2023 9:48 pm

Giants now 20-23 after sweep of woeful Phillies.

In third place, just a half game ahead of woeful Padres, who beat up on the Giants.

So they're not out of it yet, but there won't be a June Swoon because they didn't get off to a fast start.

After missing on Judge and Correa, they signed a number of free agents and most of them are underperforming.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/2023-mlb-season-where-giants-stand-quarter-mark-how-they-can-improve?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs

Maybe it could change but now after 3-4 drafts, the Giants farm system still sucks while Dodgers drafting well after them the last few years have young players contributing to their roster and also rated higher as a group as prospects.

Luciano and Kyle Harrison are the Giants great hopes but who knows when they will come up to the majors. They could have injuries in the farm system and get derailed.

It's fair to say overall that if the Giants don't make any kind of waves, like at least a competitive playoffs series, then Zaidi has been no better than his predecessors. Or more charitably, no GM or POBO is going to succeed with this ownership.

Because obviously they haven't been able to make the farm system produce and they struggle to sign free agents now.

Owner and front office need to be like the Tampa Bay Rays which is ironic because the Giants at one time might have ended up there.

Otherwise, money ball, at least Zaidi's attempt with these owners, hasn't gone anywhere.

wco81 · Post #13 » by **wco81** » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:44 pm

Well definitely no June Swoon this year.

May and June great months to pull the team well into the WC race and even vie for the division.

They were red hot in mid June, when they swept the Dodgers, took 3 of 4 from Arizona and took 2 of 3 from the Padres.

They've cooled off a bit.

Getting some good contributions from Bailey, may be catcher of the future, not Bart.

Casey Schmidt started out well, tailed off.

Matos is okay but low batting average too.

None of them have shown much pop.

Relievers have been great, starters okay but Webb and Cobb may revert to the mean towards the second half.

Zaidi supposedly has indicated that they will be buyers before the trade deadline.

They're probably going to need more run production and another good starter. Will they trade assets for rental players?

tarantism · Post #14 » by **tarantism** » Sun Jul 2, 2023 12:42 am

When will the injuries subside? Most of our big bats are sidelined right now. Would love to add another starter and move Disco out of the rotation. Would love for Estrada to not be an every day player.

Do they have money to spend? Could they add major salary at the deadline?

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wco81 · Post #15 » by **wco81** » Sun Jul 2, 2023 1:14 am

According to Spotrac, Giants are #11 in payroll at $185-186 million.

They are #3 in the division, behind the Padres and Dodgers. Colorado is close behind at $179-180 million and Arizona is killing it at around $115 million.

But a lot of the biggest salaries are on the last years of their deals -- Pederson, Crawford, Wood.

Conforto, Manea and Stripling have player options for $15 million or more next season.

Hard to say what the owners' plans are. Do they spend more to make sure they at least get into the post-season this year?

Do they plan to bid on Ohtani in Jan/Feb? Quality starting pitcher AND also a run producer. Unicorn, though will command a salary that could pay for both a top starter and a MVP-level hitter.

But it would boost attendance and there would be more excitement if the Giants got into the playoffs, at least made some noise and then really bid on Ohtani for next season and beyond.

tarantism · Post #16 » by **tarantism** » Sun Jul 2, 2023 2:30 am

wco81 wrote:According to Spotrac, Giants are #11 in payroll at $185-186 million.

They are #3 in the division, behind the Padres and Dodgers. Colorado is close behind at $179-180 million and Arizona is killing it at around $115 million.

But a lot of the biggest salaries are on the last years of their deals -- Pederson, Crawford, Wood.

Conforto, Manea and Stripling have player options for $15 million or more next season.

Hard to say what the owners' plans are. Do they spend more to make sure they at least get into the post-season this year?

Do they plan to bid on Ohtani in Jan/Feb? Quality starting pitcher AND also a run producer. Unicorn, though will command a salary that could pay for both a top starter and a MVP-level hitter.

But it would boost attendance and there would be more excitement if the Giants got into the playoffs, at least made some noise and then really bid on Ohtani for next season and beyond.

I was saying during the offseason that not getting Judge and Correa was a blessing in disguise. Kept us in the running for Ohtani, who I believe will be 29 heading into next season. It'll be a huge contract, but he had some interest in us I believe when he came over. Can't imagine he wants to stay with the Angels...that team is depressing.

Regarding this season, to me we need one more starter, and one more bat. Probably a reliever too, just on principle. Not sure who's out there that would move the needle, and I'd rather not unload major prospects - definitely not Harrison. Does Bart have any value left? Probably not.

Additionally, if Ohtani is truly in trade rumors around the deadline...I would seriously consider dangling Harrison if Ohtani expressed a desire to re-sign here after the season.

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wco81 · Post #17 » by **wco81** » Sun Jul 2, 2023 3:12 am

Yeah the assumption is that he would prefer to remain on the West Coast.

Certainly the Japanese media would have more coverage on the West Coast than further away. But he may not want that necessarily.

Huge Japanese-American populations though.

So Dodgers, maybe San Diego will spend more than they already have, Seattle. Angels only if they turn it around and become more competitive.

Maybe Diamondbacks will also vie.

Yeah if the Dodgers don't win it this year, with the Braves looking dominant right now, they're going to be even more thirsty to sign Ohtani. Giants have to bid up the contract if nothing else. Yankees would but maybe they don't think he'd move to the East Coast. Mets, unless they turn it around, not winning with that huge payroll may make them hold off on more spending.

tarantism · Post #18 » by **tarantism** » Sun Jul 2, 2023 12:01 pm

*anybody* but the **** Dodgers

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tarantism · Post #19 » by **tarantism** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 6:00 pm

It's starting to feel less and less like aggressive trade deadline moves is the right call this year. We had a fun winning streak but this team isn't going to hang on to 2nd for long. Dodgers have the resources to grab whatever pitching they want at the deadline and they likely surpass SF - it pains me to say it.

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wco81 · Post #20 » by **wco81** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 6:19 pm

Yeah the hot streak seems over.

Reverting to where they were expected to be.

Dodgers signed JD Martinez for a 1-year $10 million deal and Jason Hayward for 1 year $720k and they have 19 and 8 HRs.

But I didn't realize this, Urias will be a 27-year old UFA after this season. He's not having a good season so far but he's been a quality starter over his career.

He needs to be a FA target, at least make him expensive for whoever signs him.