Is Moses Moody an NBA caliber player?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

That draft is what killed the franchise. Not getting an impact player with either lottery pick when the draft was littered with impact players killed the dynasty. Thanks Bob

Buck stopped with Myers or was he overruled in some of these picks?

Thing I worry about is whether the scouting department is the same and pushing similar recommendations up the chain.

So even though Myers is gone, who knows if they will keep getting the same flawed scouting reports.

Warriors are going to go back into the top 5 range in a few years.

Wiseman draft was a bad draft. You can’t blame the Warriors for not realizing that Haliburton was the 2nd best player in the draft. Other teams also could not figure out that Haliburton was the 2nd best player in the draft. We needed a tall mobile center so we drafted one. We failed to understand that this nice book smart boy Wiseman was defective at basketball instincts.

2 timelines was a mistake. We should have traded the Wiseman pick for future draft picks on focussed on acquiring people like Bjelica and Otto Porter. Wiseman by rule was highly paid. Lamb contributed more than Wiseman. Lamb outplayed Kuminga prior to this year.

There is nothing wrong with the Kuminga pick. Darius Myles and Stromile Swift never developed where as Kuminga is now a skilled driver. Other than driving to the hoop and on ball man defense Kuminga is not particularly good at anything but being good at something is enough for me. So many draft picks are busts that never got good at anything.

I would have preferred drafting Sengun to Moody but the Moody pick was not bad because the players drafted after Moody are mostly not better than Moody. That Moody draft was not deep enough to get a good player where we drafted Moody without luck or better than average skill at drafting.

Most of the drafts are not that great.

[vvoland]

The draft that killed the franchise? They won a championship immediately afterward.

Moody has had a better performance in the playoffs than Murphy and is 21 to Murphy's 23. From what I can tell there is little to choose between the two.

Kuminga and Moody may well end up better than Murphy and Wagner. If they do, remember to rate Kerr as an awful coach.

There is no objective measure that either jk or moody are anywhere close to Murphy and Wagner.

Wagner has had a real regression with his shot this season and is a large reason why that team can't score, especially in the 4th. He'll look better with shooting around him and had a better overall season than jk. It was unthinkable a few months ago that jk will ever become a better player than Franz. It's very thinkable now.

Moody is nowhere near Murphy but, to be honest, there's little reason to believe that trey would be a similar player if he didn't get a ton of run on some mediocre new orleans teams his first two years.

It was the Wiseman draft that really killed us. Not getting an impact player at 2 was brutal. The mistake wasn't passing on hali; that's like killing them for not drafting bane. A no 2 pick in his fourth season should be a starting level player, if not more. Getting nothing out of that pick was the killer.

the mistake was not drafting lamelo showcasing him for one season and flipping him after his rookie year for an impact vet. That's light years ahead but to blame the dubs for not doing that is a high bar.

Plus, we won the title a year later, do we still win it if we have hali or lamelo in year two? Considering how everything has to break right, I'm not so sure.

[Onus]

That draft is what killed the franchise. Not getting an impact player with either lottery pick when the draft was littered with impact players killed the dynasty. Thanks Bob

Buck stopped with Myers or was he overruled in some of these picks?

Thing I worry about is whether the scouting department is the same and pushing similar recommendations up the chain.

So even though Myers is gone, who knows if they will keep getting the same flawed scouting reports.

Warriors are going to go back into the top 5 range in a few years.

Drafting philosophy changed this year. So this is on Bob.

[Onus]

That draft is what killed the franchise. Not getting an impact player with either lottery pick when the draft was littered with impact players killed the dynasty. Thanks Bob

Buck stopped with Myers or was he overruled in some of these picks?

Thing I worry about is whether the scouting department is the same and pushing similar recommendations up the chain.

So even though Myers is gone, who knows if they will keep getting the same flawed scouting reports.

Warriors are going to go back into the top 5 range in a few years.

Wiseman draft was a bad draft. You can’t blame the Warriors for not realizing that Haliburton was the 2nd best player in the draft. Other teams also could not figure out that Haliburton was the 2nd best player in the draft. We needed a tall mobile center so we drafted one. We failed to understand that this nice book smart boy Wiseman was defective at basketball instincts.

2 timelines was a mistake. We should have traded the Wiseman pick for future draft picks on focussed on acquiring people like Bjelica and Otto Porter. Wiseman by rule was highly paid. Lamb contributed more than Wiseman. Lamb outplayed Kuminga prior to this year.

There is nothing wrong with the Kuminga pick. Darius Myles and Stromile Swift never developed where as Kuminga is now a skilled driver. Other than driving to the hoop and on ball man defense Kuminga is not particularly good at anything but being good at something is enough for me. So many draft picks are busts that never got good at anything.

I would have preferred drafting Sengun to Moody but the Moody pick was not bad because the players drafted after Moody are mostly not better than Moody. That Moody draft was not deep enough to get a good player where we drafted Moody without luck or better than average skill at drafting.

Most of the drafts are not that great.

The wiseman draft was whatever. There aren’t many impact players drafted in that draft. That draft was just a weak draft. Whatever. We took a swing and missed.

The jk draft is littered with impact players. We had two swings and missed on both. Jk is not good. He’s probably slightly above avg as a driver an elite finisher and then below avg at every other aspect of basketball. Moody is jag which is fine but Murphy is without a doubt better. We drafted rotation players while there were impact players on the board. That draft was hands down a horrible draft that we absolutely wiffed on. We’ve gotten nothing from that draft when we should’ve gotten at least 1 impact player.

[Onus]

Moody is an NBA quality 15 minute per game 8th man.

Warriors do not have a NBA quality starting off guard.
Moody is not showing that he is better than, Klay, Payton, and Podz but he is not showing that he is worse than Klay, Payton and Podz.

In this situation with 4 guards who are not reliably better than each other you play the guy who fits the situation which gives the coach a decision making opportunity.

This is the problem with our coaching style. We can’t adapt on the fly based on what’s going on during a game. He rather adhere to his coaching decisions he did before the game has started.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Let me use this thread that will die soon.
Edit oops, i thought I was posting in Pelicans game tread.

Minimum magic tweaks to make Warriors 2024 championship favorites.

Does this get the Job done? Replace Klay with a player that has the best attributes of current Klay and 2016 Klay and 2022 just prior to Dylon Brooks caused Injury G Payton 2. Imagine how high a 6’ 7” Payton jumps. Payton has lost some speed since 2022. Payton was faster than 2016 Klay. Payton was more aggressive and more of a defensive gambler than Klay. 2016 Klay was a damn good defender. Klay’s hands were aggressive but Klay knew his foot speed was not great so Klay’s feet played a bend but don’t break style of defense. Combing best of 2016 Klay and a best of a 6’ 7” 2022 Payton would make a super defender in my opinion.

My other tweak is best of Peak Looney who rotates so well defensively, clogs the right holes, so reliable, hard working rebounding beast, holds his own switched onto a guard, so smart, good Passer combined with best of Huge Tacko Fall. Tacko Looney ends the Warriors being small. Tacko is an outstanding shot blocker near the rim despite his lack of mobility and Looney improves Tacko’s mobility. Tacko knows how to set up for blocks without utilizing speed and without fouling kind of like Bogut.

Tacko is a serious scoring threat in the deep post. Tacko is not defendable by anybody in the NBA if he catches the
ball in the deep post. Tacko might be the strongest man to play in the NBA in the last 5 years. Maybe Steven Adams or Drummond or Cousins might have been as strong as Tacko.

What is keeping Tacko out of the NBA is that Tacko’s stone feet which are so slow like Saric but with even worse adjustments to a dancing guard dribbler than Saric means that Tacko is as helpless as big men get when switched onto a guard at the 3 point line. Tacko knows how to do what Tacko does well but his overall basketball IQ is below average. But this Tacko Looney gets to use Looney’s good basketball IQ.

Looney is not great switched onto a guard at the 3 point line but I think Looney is better than the average center when switched onto a guard at the 3 point line. Most centers have problems when switched onto a guard at the 3 point line. Centers are big but they are not really elite athletes like NBA guards are. Centers hate that they secretly know that they are inferior athletes to guards. Centers want to dribble and shoot 3s to prove that they are not just big. That is why I liked Greg Ostertag who just tried to use what size and strength gave him and did not try to do guard moves.

Tacko Looney would be a hell of a center probably better than Rudy Golbert at what Rudy does best.

So does replacing Klay with best of current Klay best of 2016 Klay best of 6’ 7” version of 2022 Payton and replacing Looney with best of Current Looney, best of peak Looney and best of Tacko Fall transform current Warriors into the 2024 championship Favorites?

[EvanZ]

My god are you still talking about Tacko Fall in 2024?

[Scoots1994]

Wiseman draft was a crap draft with severely limited data. We KNEW all the picks were major risks. We talked about trading down to get Hali but realistically nobody wanted to trade UP because they all knew it was a crap draft with no data. Looking back, if we go with the idea that the Warriors have to take a big ... Toppin is maybe the best "big" and soft as a marshmallow. Is Paul Reed one of the best bigs in that draft? I like Isaiah Stewart alright, but pfew what a stinker of a draft for bigs.

And even with all that Hali is on his 2nd team and while he's good, if the Warriors just took him 2nd they would have been hammered for the "reach" and his "fit" even though he was EASILY the best player available we now know.

[wco81]

Wiseman draft was a crap draft with severely limited data. We KNEW all the picks were major risks. We talked about trading down to get Hali but realistically nobody wanted to trade UP because they all knew it was a crap draft with no data. Looking back, if we go with the idea that the Warriors have to take a big ... Toppin is maybe the best "big" and soft as a marshmallow. Is Paul Reed one of the best bigs in that draft? I like Isaiah Stewart alright, but pfew what a stinker of a draft for bigs.

And even with all that Hali is on his 2nd team and while he's good, if the Warriors just took him 2nd they would have been hammered for the "reach" and his "fit" even though he was EASILY the best player available we now know.

It's hindsight.

I'm guessing Halliburton slid because of his age and questions about whether his funky shot, where the release is in front of his head, could work in the NBA.

And he only had a right hand in his early seasons.

To his credit he got good at adjusting to the speed and athleticism of the league to get his shot, with some long step backs and side steps for his shot.

But he had an all-NBA half season until his injury. We will see if he regains that form.

BTW, some people were for Vassell and Pat Williams as well that year. But again, the issue was that they didn't deserve to be drafted #2 in that draft. But arguably, Vassell is almost all-star level starter now.

[Scoots1994]

Wiseman draft was a crap draft with severely limited data. We KNEW all the picks were major risks. We talked about trading down to get Hali but realistically nobody wanted to trade UP because they all knew it was a crap draft with no data. Looking back, if we go with the idea that the Warriors have to take a big ... Toppin is maybe the best "big" and soft as a marshmallow. Is Paul Reed one of the best bigs in that draft? I like Isaiah Stewart alright, but pfew what a stinker of a draft for bigs.

And even with all that Hali is on his 2nd team and while he's good, if the Warriors just took him 2nd they would have been hammered for the "reach" and his "fit" even though he was EASILY the best player available we now know.

It's hindsight.

I'm guessing Halliburton slid because of his age and questions about whether his funky shot, where the release is in front of his head, could work in the NBA.

And he only had a right hand in his early seasons.

To his credit he got good at adjusting to the speed and athleticism of the league to get his shot, with some long step backs and side steps for his shot.

But he had an all-NBA half season until his injury. We will see if he regains that form.

BTW, some people were for Vassell and Pat Williams as well that year. But again, the issue was that they didn't deserve to be drafted #2 in that draft. But arguably, Vassell is almost all-star level starter now.

I literally said "looking back" and you reply with "it's hindsight" ... no ****

But yeah, there were players I liked more and less in that draft, but none of them were the clear blue chip you want with the 2nd pick. Much like this year.

[sonnyhill]

"Is Moses Moody an NBA caliber player?"

Perhaps, if he was given the opportunity to develop as a shooting guard/occasional small forward. However, with Steve Kerr guiding Moody's career, Moody, as with other players on the roster, was put into situations where he played as an undersized wing/frontcourt player.

[watch1958]

Before you Moody crazy fans start ranting, remember this: being a proven post season performer isn’t that special.

[DonaldSanders]

My god are you still talking about Tacko Fall in 2024?

In 2044 Tacko will be in a wheelchair and he will still believe. Dude is the GOAT Tacko believer, not even Tacko's mama can touch him!

Read on Twitter

[sonnyhill]

Interesting article on Moody and the Warriors in today's SF Gate.

https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/moses-moody-conundrum-steve-kerr-mike-dunleavy-19410930.php

The Golden State Warriors need to figure out their Moses Moody conundrum
By Gabe Fernandez
April 18, 2024

For as much as the Golden State Warriors’ defeat at the hands of the Sacramento Kings answered a lot of questions about the limitations of this past season’s roster, it opened up one particular question about the team’s future: What the hell are the Dubs going to do with Moses Moody?

The former lottery pick from Arkansas finished his third season in the NBA with arguably the best performance on the team in Tuesday’s 118-94 loss. Yet the fact that he was in the game at all to put up 16 points, three rebounds and an assist — good for a team-high plus-three on the night — was a happy little accident. Moody told reporters Wednesday that he wasn’t supposed to be in the rotation, and it wasn’t until the Dubs went down double digits that he heard his number called onto the floor.

This message changing at seemingly the drop of a hat is Moody’s career in Golden State distilled. One second he’s part of the rotation, he’s performing well, and then he’s suddenly demoted to garbage-time minutes only to face DNPs for a week straight.

“I mean that’s kind of been the storyline all year, not knowing how much playing time I’m going to get,” Moody told reporters Wednesday.

To his credit, the 21-year-old has looked at his career through the lens of continued growth, and rather than bemoaning the lack of playing time, he just wants to get better year after year. But at some point, that growth needs to yield results, and he’s repeatedly demonstrated that when he’s given the time to flourish on the court, good things can happen. His skill set at this moment is mostly Guy Who Plays Really Hard — which, for a team that needs to get younger and more athletic, is the perfect kind of role to have regularly available.

This past season saw career highs in almost every single statistical category, and it’s worth remembering that he’s only 21 years old. He can get so much better, but that’s something that can only happen if he gets more reps.

The Warriors chalk the lack of opportunities up to an overcrowded field. Both head coach Steve Kerr and general manager Mike Dunleavy Jr. mentioned it’s difficult to find space for Moody with all of the talent in the positions he plays. Kerr went as far as to note that lineup combinations have also been a big question mark with regard to where Moody fits best. The Dubs coach might not have the best track record of playing young players, but he’s still got a point. Moody’s best lineups statistically last season were with five-man squads that were generally undersized. The best lineup, per NBA.com’s stats, featured Moody, Steph Curry, Brandin Podziemski, Jonathan Kuminga and Draymond Green. It was a solid plus-27, but it tops out at 6-foot-6 in height. Not great for a rebound-starved roster.

At the same time, perhaps some of that crowded field comes from players who might not be worthy of a spot ahead of Moody at this stage of their career. Andrew Wiggins and Klay Thompson might be more talented overall, but both have seriously regressed this past season, with little indication that next year will be much better. If younger players like Kuminga, Podziemski and Trayce Jackson-Davis can make proper leaps in their respective games, then Moody could slot in to take the space of an athletic wing with an average shooting stroke. Case in point: Moody’s second-best statistical lineup featured him, Curry, Wiggins, Podziemski and Jackson-Davis at a plus-10 on the season. Imagine how much better that would look next season replacing a declining Wiggins with a rising Kuminga?

The good news for Moody is that at least the front office acknowledges this need for playing time.

“I think it’s really important coming into Year 4 for him that there is some reasonable playing time available for him where he can impact our team and be out there and continue to improve,” Dunleavy Jr. told reporters Thursday. “I think that’s a fair thing.”

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

My god are you still talking about Tacko Fall in 2024?

Tacko is 28 now. No future.
I would pick him up for a 8 minute per game gimmick defense.
Curry and Klay can not stay in front of their men but what if that was OK?

My Tacko Zone
Tacko camped under the rim destroying any drives to the rim.
Dray at about the free throw line drifting to wherever he is needed.
Curry and Klay in the corners. Go ahead take Curry and Klay off the dribble with Dray forcing you towards baseline and shoot that baseline pull up mid range over Tacko who is too far away to block the shot. We will give you that shot because it is not such ab easy shot with Dray taking away the move away from the baseline and Curry or Klay chasing from behind.

Then up top we have Kuminga who can cover a lot of ground quickly and can jump at 3s.
Kuminga is not a smart defender and has problems knowing who to guard but I am giving Kuminga a defensive role that needs his speed but does not need basketball IQ. Kuminga just has to run to the ball anytime the ball is above the free throw line.

So lets say you space 4 three point shooters around the 3 point arc with 2 shooters being spread wide left and right above the free throw line. The 5th man runs around setting screens for 3 point shooters or is a point guard running the offense from the free throw line area.
So swinging the ball left to right between the 2 3 point shooters up top forces Kuminga to guard 2 men spaced far from each other which Kuminga or anybody else can not do. That is probably the best offense this Tacko Zone gives up which means Curry and Klay do not really have to try to defend. The guy busting his butt on defense is Kuminga trying to follow the ball as the ball swings back and forth between the 2 high 3 point shooter. If those 2 high 3 point shooters are cold their team offense dies but if the 2 high 3 point shooters are hot shooting quickly before Kuminga can get to them I must get my Tacko Zone off the floor. Kuminga does get opportunities to try to steal the cross court pass between the 2 high 3 point shooters.

Tacko Zone kills all inside scoring from the opposing team. You can not beat Daymond and Tacko inside. The baseline midrange pull up with Curry or Klay chasing from behind is not a good shot. They must beat you with the left and right side high 3s with super jumping Kuminga closing out.

If you send a screen setting big to screen for the corner 3 then Dray comes over to help defend the corner 3 and the big screener rolls to the basket he is rolling to Tacko. There is no efficient inside offense against Tacko.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

"Is Moses Moody an NBA caliber player?"

Perhaps, if he was given the opportunity to develop as a shooting guard/occasional small forward. However, with Steve Kerr guiding Moody's career, Moody, as with other players on the roster, was put into situations where he played as an undersized wing/frontcourt player.

Moody has had the opportunity to develop. He does not have any offensive moves and must be open to score, There is nothing wrong with 3 and D but I prefer my limited offense 3 and D guys to be better than Moody on defense. Moody is fine for an 8th man. Every team needs an 8th man.

[KevinMcreynolds]

My god are you still talking about Tacko Fall in 2024?

In 2044 Tacko will be in a wheelchair and he will still believe. Dude is the GOAT Tacko believer, not even Tacko's mama can touch him!

Read on Twitter

I like MM and everything but a lot of those minutes are garbage time

[TB]

The problem with the Moses data is somehow Kerr has barely played him in rotations with our best players that are not gimmicky in some way or another.

For example, he only played around 72 minutes this year next to Steph, Dray and a center... and some of those were next to Klay where it was a disaster (18 minutes where Klay never made a 3, had a usage rate as high as 47, and TS under 25%). So take away the Klay minutes and he only had 54 minutes with Steph/Dray and a center:

43 minutes with Steph/Dray/Loon at +10 net rating

11 minutes with Steph/Dray/Trayce at +46 net rating

There is probably an argument to be made that our best possible lineup is Steph, Wiggins, Moody, Dray, Center.... of course we dont really know because with Trayce they have only played 2 possessions (less than a minute), and with Loon it was 37 minutes of +4 net even with Steph shooting an awful TS% in those limited minutes. And if you want to see if Wiggins in the problem, well guess what, Kerr has nothing for ya because replacing Wiggins with Kuminga in those lineups has literally never happened for a minute. Swap Wiggins for Podz and its only 5 minutes of about +40 or so rating.

[CDM_Stats]

My god are you still talking about Tacko Fall in 2024?

In 2044 Tacko will be in a wheelchair and he will still believe. Dude is the GOAT Tacko believer, not even Tacko's mama can touch him!

Read on Twitter

I like MM and everything but a lot of those minutes are garbage time

So I checked on this because.. well I checked on them. And using the typical criteria (+/- 20 pts in 4th quarter from 12:00 - 4:00; +/- 15 pts in 4th from 4:00 - 0:00), this is what Moody has actually done in garbage time, and then conversely in non-garbage time:

GARBAGE TIME MOODY:

MIN - 77:20
PTS: 36
REB: 10
AST: 2
STL: 3
BLK: 3
TO: 2
FG: 12/32 (37.5%)
3PT: 6/11 (54.5%)
FT: 5/6 (83.3%)

REAL TIME MOODY:

MIN - 203:30
PTS: 90
REB: 32
AST: 11
STOCKS: 9
TO: 3
FG: 31/47 (65.9%)
3PT: 16/28 (57.1%)
FT: 14/17 (82.4%)
TS: 82% (honestly, I triple checked this because this number is insane. Its accurate.)

So his per 36s in real time are:
15.9 PPG
5.7 RPG
1.9 APG
1.7 STOCKS per game (hate them being combined because one is way more valuable than the other, but whatever)

So no, most of his time isnt garbage time, and its even better than his garbage time numbers. Big Game Moses Moody doesn't hear you

[sonnyhill]

Interesting take on Moody and the Warriors

Warriors REVEAL Moses Moody Plan For Upcoming Season + Trade Coming? Warriors News & Rumors

Watch on YouTube