There's a proven blueprint for success. So why didn't the Dubs follow it?

[sonnyhill]

I just don't get Quinones getting minutes over Moody. He's just not that good. I honestly think he's not an NBA player and he'll end up in New Zealand like Lamb. Just makes all this seem super weird to me.

Quinones isn't competing for contract dollars with Klay this off season. Also, Kerr isn't really about the team having the best chance to win. He wants Steph and Klay and Draymond to have the best chance to win doing it their way.

Good lord this is spot on.

Remember, Kerr basically had to be bullied into giving Kuminga a longer leash.
He had to have a full body reaction to Klay fouling Westbrook before finally benching him.

Kerr is "special".

Kerr has always been "special." Remember when Kerr was teammates with Michael Jordan, and how Jordan had let Kerr know just how "special" Kerr is?!

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

During the Dubs championship years, they had a proven blueprint for success if you look at their roster construction.

You had Steph, Klay, and Draymond. Then you had Harrison Barnes and Andrew Bogut or Barnes and Iguodala. They were so lethal they were called the Death Lineup.

Then you had the years with KD and they were just overwhelming.

But then after KD left the team rebuilt and found success with a lineup of Steph, Klay and Draymond with the addition of Wiggins and Looney or in the finals against the Celtics Otto Porter Jr. in place of Looney.

Now compare the above lineups to the main lineups the Dubs were trotting out in the playoffs this year. Does anything stick out to anyone else? In place of Looney or Porter Jr. the Dubs were putting in JaMychal Green and GPII against the Lakers. Did anyone really think that would be an improvement?

In hindsight I would say the JaMychal Green signing was pretty fatal for the team's chances this year because he was ineffective as a substitute for Looney in that lineup. Wiseman was a distraction. Kuminga or Lamb had to fill in but they were either unready or Kerr wouldn't play them. GPII was simply out of place and Donte unfortunately looked better than he really was. That's 5 players that couldn't really fill in that the team desperately needed to fill the hole.

Jamychal green was supposed to be a cross between Bjelica and Porter who could replace Bjelica and Porter. That did not work out.

Be fast or be big. Have 2 of the NBA’s best players. Court vission and good passing. Best screens and picks. Best basketball IQ. Top level hustle.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

The people who built the team are gone. The remaining have demonstrated lack of judgment or the inability to change their ways. They don’t have anyone with a proven track record to make the calls to bring this team back. Instead of searching for a great candidate, they chose Dunleavy which seems like a weird hire. What has he done to warrant such a leap? He doesn’t have anything major to hang on his belt that said I accomplished this.

It's what's below Mike's belt that makes him the ideal candidate

Who drafted Podz and Trayce? Turning Baldwin into Trayce seems to have been a good move.
I got nothing bad to Say about Dunleavy the GM.
I wanted Dunleavy the player to be tougher and better than he was.

Salary cap sucks.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I just don't get Quinones getting minutes over Moody. He's just not that good. I honestly think he's not an NBA player and he'll end up in New Zealand like Lamb. Just makes all this seem super weird to me.

Quinones isn't competing for contract dollars with Klay this off season. Also, Kerr isn't really about the team having the best chance to win. He wants Steph and Klay and Draymond to have the best chance to win doing it their way.

Good lord this is spot on.

Remember, Kerr basically had to be bullied into giving Kuminga a longer leash.
He had to have a full body reaction to Klay fouling Westbrook before finally benching him.

Kerr is "special".

Who bullied Kerr into playing Kuminga?
Kuminga and Moody bullied Kerr?

Our realgm board bullied Kerr? Does our board deserve the credit for getting Kerr to play Kuminga?

Kuminga improved and then Kerr played him. Kuminga had to play better than Lamb to get minutes. Now Moody is going to have to play better than Quinones and Payton to get minutes.

Playing kids to develop them over players that are better than the kids is for bad teams that can’t win now. The 2024 Pistons can develop their kids. But if you are not going to play the kids maybe you should not draft them. You can trade the draft picks for future draft picks.

[killmongrel]

Quinones isn't competing for contract dollars with Klay this off season. Also, Kerr isn't really about the team having the best chance to win. He wants Steph and Klay and Draymond to have the best chance to win doing it their way.

Good lord this is spot on.

Remember, Kerr basically had to be bullied into giving Kuminga a longer leash.
He had to have a full body reaction to Klay fouling Westbrook before finally benching him.

Kerr is "special".

Who bullied Kerr into playing Kuminga?
Kuminga and Moody bullied Kerr?

Our realgm board bullied Kerr? Does our board deserve the credit for getting Kerr to play Kuminga?

Kuminga improved and then Kerr played him. Kuminga had to play better than Lamb to get minutes. Now Moody is going to have to play better than Quinones and Payton to get minutes.

Playing kids to develop them over players that are better than the kids is for bad teams that can’t win now. The 2024 Pistons can develop their kids. But if you are going to play the kids maybe you should not draft them. You can trade the draft picks for future draft picks.

Kuminga going to the press. Lacob actually going to Kerr's press conference after the Denver game. Etc. Dude was basically peer pressured into finally giving Kuminga a longer leash.

[EvanZ]

Quinones isn't competing for contract dollars with Klay this off season. Also, Kerr isn't really about the team having the best chance to win. He wants Steph and Klay and Draymond to have the best chance to win doing it their way.

Good lord this is spot on.

Remember, Kerr basically had to be bullied into giving Kuminga a longer leash.
He had to have a full body reaction to Klay fouling Westbrook before finally benching him.

Kerr is "special".

Who bullied Kerr into playing Kuminga?
Kuminga and Moody bullied Kerr?

Our realgm board bullied Kerr? Does our board deserve the credit for getting Kerr to play Kuminga?

Kuminga improved and then Kerr played him. Kuminga had to play better than Lamb to get minutes. Now Moody is going to have to play better than Quinones and Payton to get minutes.

Playing kids to develop them over players that are better than the kids is for bad teams that can’t win now. The 2024 Pistons can develop their kids. But if you are not going to play the kids maybe you should not draft them. You can trade the draft picks for future draft picks.

When did Quinones have to play better than Moody to get minutes? Hmm....

[Warriorfan]

Quinones isn't competing for contract dollars with Klay this off season. Also, Kerr isn't really about the team having the best chance to win. He wants Steph and Klay and Draymond to have the best chance to win doing it their way.

Good lord this is spot on.

Remember, Kerr basically had to be bullied into giving Kuminga a longer leash.
He had to have a full body reaction to Klay fouling Westbrook before finally benching him.

Kerr is "special".

Who bullied Kerr into playing Kuminga?
Kuminga and Moody bullied Kerr?

Our realgm board bullied Kerr? Does our board deserve the credit for getting Kerr to play Kuminga?

Kuminga improved and then Kerr played him. Kuminga had to play better than Lamb to get minutes. Now Moody is going to have to play better than Quinones and Payton to get minutes.

Playing kids to develop them over players that are better than the kids is for bad teams that can’t win now. The 2024 Pistons can develop their kids. But if you are not going to play the kids maybe you should not draft them. You can trade the draft picks for future draft picks.

Rookies are cost controlled and cost millions less due to luxury tax. Warriors are a business after all.

[vvoland]

Good lord this is spot on.

Remember, Kerr basically had to be bullied into giving Kuminga a longer leash.
He had to have a full body reaction to Klay fouling Westbrook before finally benching him.

Kerr is "special".

Who bullied Kerr into playing Kuminga?
Kuminga and Moody bullied Kerr?

Our realgm board bullied Kerr? Does our board deserve the credit for getting Kerr to play Kuminga?

Kuminga improved and then Kerr played him. Kuminga had to play better than Lamb to get minutes. Now Moody is going to have to play better than Quinones and Payton to get minutes.

Playing kids to develop them over players that are better than the kids is for bad teams that can’t win now. The 2024 Pistons can develop their kids. But if you are not going to play the kids maybe you should not draft them. You can trade the draft picks for future draft picks.

When did Quinones have to play better than Moody to get minutes? Hmm....

Q is not playing over Moody. Q is playing 3rd string PG, Kerr almost never plays moody as a guard since Kerr seems to think anyone not a PG is a forward. Moody will only get playing time over wiggs, jk or klay. He won't play in place of our ball-handling guards like podz, curry or q.

Whether we agree with that is moot. Kerr seems determined to play 3 ball handlers on the floor or dray/curry. I think it's a bit conservative but he trusts klay, jk and wigs to dribble even less than i do. If you can't attack the rim and then not panic and dribble out of the paint, he won't really let you dribble anymore.

Q started playing when cp3 got hurt and cojo started slipping further in the lineup. With the cojo trade, q's role increased. Moody is not relevant to that conversation (as far as Kerr is concerned, at least).

[CDM_Stats]

Who bullied Kerr into playing Kuminga?
Kuminga and Moody bullied Kerr?

Our realgm board bullied Kerr? Does our board deserve the credit for getting Kerr to play Kuminga?

Kuminga improved and then Kerr played him. Kuminga had to play better than Lamb to get minutes. Now Moody is going to have to play better than Quinones and Payton to get minutes.

Playing kids to develop them over players that are better than the kids is for bad teams that can’t win now. The 2024 Pistons can develop their kids. But if you are not going to play the kids maybe you should not draft them. You can trade the draft picks for future draft picks.

When did Quinones have to play better than Moody to get minutes? Hmm....

Q is not playing over Moody. Q is playing 3rd string PG, Kerr almost never plays moody as a guard since Kerr seems to think anyone not a PG is a forward. Moody will only get playing time over wiggs, jk or klay. He won't play in place of our ball-handling guards like podz, curry or q.

Whether we agree with that is moot. Kerr seems determined to play 3 ball handlers on the floor or dray/curry. I think it's a bit conservative but he trusts klay, jk and wigs to dribble even less than i do. If you can't attack the rim and then not panic and dribble out of the paint, he won't really let you dribble anymore.

Q started playing when cp3 got hurt and cojo started slipping further in the lineup. With the cojo trade, q's role increased. Moody is not relevant to that conversation (as far as Kerr is concerned, at least).

Q played 16 minutes last night, 12.5 of them were with Podz. If he is the 3rd PG - and I'm not saying he isn't - then Kerr is playing a 2 PG lineup almost exclusively when Curry sits. Thats with guys like Saric (capable passer/handler for a big), GP2, and typically a forward/center that doesnt shoot well consistently (JK/Wiggins/TJD/Looney)

If that is Kerr's idea, its absolutely fair to question it, because its godawful on paper unless Q is going off offensively. Klay saved the day yesterday, but thats not something to bank on, at least not at that level

[watch1958]

Good lord this is spot on.

Remember, Kerr basically had to be bullied into giving Kuminga a longer leash.
He had to have a full body reaction to Klay fouling Westbrook before finally benching him.

Kerr is "special".

Who bullied Kerr into playing Kuminga?
Kuminga and Moody bullied Kerr?

Our realgm board bullied Kerr? Does our board deserve the credit for getting Kerr to play Kuminga?

Kuminga improved and then Kerr played him. Kuminga had to play better than Lamb to get minutes. Now Moody is going to have to play better than Quinones and Payton to get minutes.

Playing kids to develop them over players that are better than the kids is for bad teams that can’t win now. The 2024 Pistons can develop their kids. But if you are not going to play the kids maybe you should not draft them. You can trade the draft picks for future draft picks.

Rookies are cost controlled and cost millions less due to luxury tax. Warriors are a business after all.

They are a business, except when it comes to Klay.

[EvanZ]

Q is not a legit ball handler. He's a fake ball handler who is really a wing. In my book Kerr is giving him Moody's minutes. It doesn't matter how you try to rationalize that, because it simply isn't rational. It's boneheaded.

[Jax_23]

The people who built the team are gone. The remaining have demonstrated lack of judgment or the inability to change their ways. They don’t have anyone with a proven track record to make the calls to bring this team back. Instead of searching for a great candidate, they chose Dunleavy which seems like a weird hire. What has he done to warrant such a leap? He doesn’t have anything major to hang on his belt that said I accomplished this.

I think you're forgetting Dunleavy made a fantastic trade by getting rid of Jordan Poole and his terrible contract.

[michaelm]

Q is not a legit ball handler. He's a fake ball handler who is really a wing. In my book Kerr is giving him Moody's minutes. It doesn't matter how you try to rationalize that, because it simply isn't rational. It's boneheaded.

I don’t understand Kerr’s attitude to Moody. Moody is not and will never be prime Klay, a unique player who was one of the most devastating shooters of all time and a great foil for Curry, which nobody else is either, but imo brings several things the team needs including reasonable size at his position and defensive ability, and pretty much showed he could deliver even in the play-offs when given a modicum of minutes rather than a few minutes here and there and being yanked, sometimes it appears capriciously.

My theories include that Kerr decided he was no good very early and won’t budge from that position, and that perhaps it is part of his Klay thing with playing Moody a threat to Klay’s minutes.

[michaelm]

The people who built the team are gone. The remaining have demonstrated lack of judgment or the inability to change their ways. They don’t have anyone with a proven track record to make the calls to bring this team back. Instead of searching for a great candidate, they chose Dunleavy which seems like a weird hire. What has he done to warrant such a leap? He doesn’t have anything major to hang on his belt that said I accomplished this.

I think you're forgetting Dunleavy made a fantastic trade by getting rid of Jordan Poole and his terrible contract.

If we are talking about when Dunleavy was appointed, he had not much track record as a GM but neither did Kerr when appointed as coach. So far he has done very well imo, perhaps even close to being genius level, certainly getting rid of Poole and his high priced long term contract looks a great outcome for the team just now, I can’t think of anyone better than Podz or TJD, who are deservedly getting significant minutes as rookies on a team coached by Steve Kerr, at anything close to their draft position. Can’t complain about trading for Paul either, even if he had no value as a player which imo he does if employed correctly, he had value I gather as an expiring contract/trade piece/salary slot holder, not that I understand salary cap shenanigans etc greatly. He also didn’t sell Wiggins low.

I also really can’t think of anyone much in the way of valuable players who were gettable that he didn’t get.

So very little in the way of anything negative from him so far for me, although because of my own prejudices I wouldn’t have been keen on having LeBron on the team, even if a last hurrah for him with Curry might have had a shot. It would now I think on it have had the virtue of shutting up the LeBron fans in regard to the KD Warriors though.

[WarriorGM]

As far as I can tell my thesis in this thread continues to hold true. Which means the team's performance has actually been pretty predictable.

Can anyone show contrary evidence?

[Jester_]

I haven't seen a more badly coached Warriors team besides maybe 6 months with Keith Smart.

Steven Kerr has reached levels of stupidity and senility I didnt think possible. Dementia is my only explanation for what's happening.

EVERYBODY here knew exactly what the outcome of last night's game would be based on the lineup choices. There was no question. That's how predictable this buffoon is now.

[DB23]

I haven't seen a more badly coached Warriors team besides maybe 6 months with Keith Smart.

Steven Kerr has reached levels of stupidity and senility I didnt think possible. Dementia is my only explanation for what's happening.

EVERYBODY here knew exactly what the outcome of last night's game would be based on the lineup choices. There was no question. That's how predictable this buffoon is now.

What lineups are you referencing?

What I saw was a good team get hot and drain some ridiculous threes + our offense go clueless what looked like was from a lack of energy and effort.

You can’t blame Kerr for some dumb curry turnovers in the 4th.

I just don’t get the Kerr hate on this board from some posters.

[superunknown]

I haven't seen a more badly coached Warriors team besides maybe 6 months with Keith Smart.

Steven Kerr has reached levels of stupidity and senility I didnt think possible. Dementia is my only explanation for what's happening.

EVERYBODY here knew exactly what the outcome of last night's game would be based on the lineup choices. There was no question. That's how predictable this buffoon is now.

What lineups are you referencing?

What I saw was a good team get hot and drain some ridiculous threes + our offense go clueless what looked like was from a lack of energy and effort.

You can’t blame Kerr for some dumb curry turnovers in the 4th.

I just don’t get the Kerr hate on this board from some posters.

from "some" posters?
at least 50% of this board disapproves the way kerr has been coaching in the last 2 seasons.
"some " disapproves the way he has been coaching in the last 2 and half season (since klay return).

[DB23]

I haven't seen a more badly coached Warriors team besides maybe 6 months with Keith Smart.

Steven Kerr has reached levels of stupidity and senility I didnt think possible. Dementia is my only explanation for what's happening.

EVERYBODY here knew exactly what the outcome of last night's game would be based on the lineup choices. There was no question. That's how predictable this buffoon is now.

What lineups are you referencing?

What I saw was a good team get hot and drain some ridiculous threes + our offense go clueless what looked like was from a lack of energy and effort.

You can’t blame Kerr for some dumb curry turnovers in the 4th.

I just don’t get the Kerr hate on this board from some posters.

from "some" posters?
at least 50% of this board disapproves the way kerr has been coaching in the last 2 seasons.
"some " disapproves the way he has been coaching in the last 2 and half season (since klay return).

Yep, you’re right. We seem to give the players a pass and put it all on him.

Can’t face that this team is sadly probably performing on par with their talent level. Could even argue it’s performing better.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

During the Dubs championship years, they had a proven blueprint for success if you look at their roster construction.

You had Steph, Klay, and Draymond. Then you had Harrison Barnes and Andrew Bogut or Barnes and Iguodala. They were so lethal they were called the Death Lineup.

Then you had the years with KD and they were just overwhelming.

But then after KD left the team rebuilt and found success with a lineup of Steph, Klay and Draymond with the addition of Wiggins and Looney or in the finals against the Celtics Otto Porter Jr. in place of Looney.

Now compare the above lineups to the main lineups the Dubs were trotting out in the playoffs this year. Does anything stick out to anyone else? In place of Looney or Porter Jr. the Dubs were putting in JaMychal Green and GPII against the Lakers. Did anyone really think that would be an improvement?

In hindsight I would say the JaMychal Green signing was pretty fatal for the team's chances this year because he was ineffective as a substitute for Looney in that lineup. Wiseman was a distraction. Kuminga or Lamb had to fill in but they were either unready or Kerr wouldn't play them. GPII was simply out of place and Donte unfortunately looked better than he really was. That's 5 players that couldn't really fill in that the team desperately needed to fill the hole.

We don’t have the personel to do what we did in 2015 and 2016.

The ball is no longer flying arround like a Harlem globe trotters passing Drill.

Klay and Steph can not marathon sprint all night long all over the court off ball like they used to. We no longer have 5 men setting screens.

We no longer have a fast scrambling defense that causes turnovers and rotates perfectly like an amoeba zonish man to man.
We usually don’t have a 3rd passer on the floor the quality of Iguodala but when Podz or Chris Paul are on the floor with Curry and Draymond we do have 3 passers except Podz and Chris Paul do not get rid of the ball so quickly. They are very good passers but dribbling the ball without going anywhere allows the defense to rotate back into position and is not Harlem Globe Trotters passing Drill style. Draymond and Iguodala quick passing to each other while Klay and Curry ran around Bogut screens created chaos in defenses.

We were a fast team, now we are a slow team.

With Bogut we were not small. With Harrison Barnes, Curry and Klay our 3 point shooting spaced the floor wide creating open Layups on cuts to the basket.

So merge best of 2016 Bogut with best of Looney.
Best of 2016 Curry with current Curry.
Best of 2016 Klay with current Klay.
Best of 2016 Iguodala with current Kuminga
Best of 2016 Harrison Barnes with current Trayce
Best of 2016 Rush with current Moody
Best of 2016 charge drawing Speights with current Saric
Best of 2016 Livingston with Current Wiggins
Best of 2016 Barbosa with Current Chris Paul
Best of 2016 Ian Clark with current Quinones
Best of 2016 McAdoo with Santos
Best of 2016 Verajao with Garuba

And then we have a team that could play our old style in win more than 73 games.

Our current team is no longer equipped to play like we used to play.
No team but the the 2016 Warriors could play 2016 Warriors ball like the 2016 Warriors.
Durant was very good but he moved the Warriors away from the 2015 2016 style. The ball did not zip around as much with Durant and the players did not run arround screens as much with Durant. Durant clogged an area where Klay and Curry used to criss cross screen for each other while also using Bogut screens leaving the defenders not knowing who to guard.

We are not that team anymore. We are not that fast anymore. We are not such quick passers. We do not run so relentlessly off ball. Our defense rotations are not as good. We do not pressure the ball as much.

We are not that good.

It is not just the Warriors that can no longer use the 2016 blueprint for success; no other team was able to use that blueprint although the Spurs were a little similar to the 2016 Warriors and the Nash Suns were little similar. No coincidence. Spurs and Suns taught Kerr and Gentry that style.