We need a playable starting center

[jozef]

Put it in perspective as far as rim protection for all 30 NBA teams Total Blocks:
#1 to #17 are starting centers (Lopez 71 ... Claxton 33),
next 9 starting centers rank from #21 to #43 (Nurkic 29 ...Duren 19),
then #61 to #69 Adebayo (DNP in last 7 games) and Sabonis 16, #79 Ayton 14 blocks,
then #174 to #196 Looney 7 blocks.
Well, Steph Curry also 7 blocks...

I create a simple metrics to evaluate "presence" of starting centers on both ends of the floor.
Leaders Lopez with 71 blocks and Embiid with 710 points inspired me to this formula:
(POINTS/10+BLOCKS)/GAMES
Results:
#1 Embiid 53, #2 Davis 50, #3 Wembanyama 48, ...
#26 Poeltl 23, #27 Richards (Charlotte) 22, #28 Ayton 20, #29 Robinson 19 (plays with 22.4 ppg PF Randle in New York),
...#30 Looney 9.

Now with such big handicap at center position we even play small backcourt...

No wonder that till this day we have 2 double-digits victories: 28 points over New Orleans (Hornets went 2-17 3P in 2nd half) and 11 points over Detroit (trailing 93-97 with 8 minutes to go).

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Shooting Guard Klay Thompson blocked 12 shots. It is one shy of our CENTER'S TOTAL - Kevon Looney and Dario Saric combined of 13 blocks. So what is the biggest need?
Starting center Kevon Looney is #165 in Blocks and #225 in Points! Find any other team with such a starting center...

Last game: Points in the paint 50-78, Klay 4-6 2P, 4-9 3P, 2-2 Ft, 1 blk, 22 pts, team-high +11.

You fans are crazy and Steve Kerr went blind or something.

Warriors blocks per 36 minutes.

Trayce JD 2.5. (That is good shot blocking center)
Dray 1.1 OK for a power forward. He is only 6.6
Klay 0.6 in 3rd place Klay of all people.
Kuminga 0.6 hey kid Klay is as good as you without knees.
Payton 0.6 way to go mighty midget
Wiggins 0.5
Looney 0.5 can’t jump
Moody 0.5
Saric 0.4 can’t jump
Podz 0.4
Curry 0.3
Cory 0.3
CP3 0.1
Gui 0
Lester 0
Jerome not last year’s Jerome 0

Guruba ——— has not played a minute in 25 games but might be our 2nd best shot blocker.

[jozef]

Consider this, the 11-14 record is a great achievement for Steph and others. Reaching Play-in will be as remarkable as any championship season.

[HiRez]

Size/length/athleticism helps, but I'm always of the opinion the most important factors in shot blocking are timing, positioning, and knowing your opponent. That's why GP2 is as good as he is at it and why Kuminga is as bad as he is at it. Also explains why TJD is so good at it, he's not super tall or long or athletic, but his instincts are good and he tries to get blocks on the way up by tracking his opponent's hands instead of trying to intercept them before the top of the arc where you risk goaltending even if you can get to it. I will say Kuminga has had a few nice blocks recently, maybe he's finally starting to realize just blindly reacting by leaping at shots going up does more harm than good.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Size/length/athleticism helps, but I'm always of the opinion the most important factors in shot blocking are timing, positioning, and knowing your opponent. That's why GP2 is as good as he is at it and why Kuminga is as bad as he is at it. Also explains why TJD is so good at it, he's not super tall or long or athletic, but his instincts are good and he tries to get blocks on the way up by tracking his opponent's hands instead of trying to intercept them before the top of the arc where you risk goaltending even if you can get to it. I will say Kuminga has had a few nice blocks recently, maybe he's finally starting to realize just blindly reacting by leaping at shots going up does more harm than good.

Bogut was a couple inches taller than Looney.
Bogut and Looney both barely jumped. I think Looney has the longer arms in proportion to his body. Looney looks a bit quicker than Bogut to me especially lateral quickness.

Looney focusses on rebounds and rebounded very well prior to this year. Looney, Draymond, Wiggins and Klay got off to a sluggish start this year. They may be dragging each other down into mediocrity to some degree this year.

Bogut thought blocking shots was part of his job and he was smart about shot blocking angles and timing and not fouling on the block attempts. Looney does not have Bogut’s experience through repetition at perfecting shot blocking.

I am old and Watched 1980s Kareem as a Celtic fan. Old Kareem did not like the body contact of boxing out. Kareem preferred playing for the blocks. The 1980s Celtics were relentless offensive rebounders. 1984 Finals Lakers were better than the 1984 finals Celtics at everything but rebounding. 1984 Celtics beat the Lakers because of dominant offensive rebounding. When Kareem failed at boxing out he would pay more attention to boxing out the next game.

For 1980s Kareem to a degree he had to choose between getting rebounds or blocking shots. Kareem rebounding meant less blocks. Kareem blocking meant less rebounds.

Looney is probably doing better at rebounding because he ignores shot blocking. Bogut probably would have got more defensive rebounds if he was not always thinking about blocking shots.

Looney almost never going for the block allows the othe other team to get comfortable driving to the hoop and shooting blockable shots. You don’t have to shoot high arc shots to get the ball past Looney.

[DonaldSanders]

We have one, his name is Trayce Jackson-Davis

[jozef]

Bogut jumped way higher than Looney. He dunked the ball way higher, he blocked the shots way higher. No competition. Incomparable.
I posted enough videos to prove it.

[DonaldSanders]

Bogut jumped way higher than Looney. He dunked the ball way higher, he blocked the shots way higher. No competition. Incomparable.
I posted enough videos to prove it.

Shouldn't you instead by celebrating that Trayce got some great minutes? We have a center who fits the Warrior mold -- mobile, can switch, better finisher than basically anyone we've had in the Steph era.

Bogut was a beast when he wasn't injured, especially in the 2016 regular season. I think we'd all welcome 2014-2016 Bogut before injuries caught up. Looney was much better the prior 2 years, hopefully we turn to Trayce for a lot of minutes now. I think you minimize Looney's past contributions though -- and there is a chance over time he can be back to what he was, but who knows.

[jozef]

Celebrating?
I knew it. I did my best to convince people for long long time. Explanations were not enough. I created videos. Still being a troll for many fans. Well, there is a "Bench Warmer" below my name
There is no celebration. TJD could be sent back to the end of the bench. I do not feel optimistic about Warriors coaching staff decision making as far as personnel.

Basically I did sum it all in this post:

We need to see clearly into the glass.
Stephen Curry - OK
Klay Thompson - OK
Draymond Green - OK
Andrew Wiggins - subtle improvement in conditioning seems to have big impact, he will be useful against long forwards (LeBron, Tatum, Luka, Kawhi...) OK
Chris Paul - pairing with small guard makes the team (already undersized at C) so vulnerable, that even on good shooting nights the ceiling is neutral, he can lead the backups but the style is kind of contrast to starters flow, he should get a starting job elsewhere to continue his legacy
Gary Payton II - he will be useful against long forwards as Wiggins will,if he makes open 3pters he is All-Star level, however his dynamic style makes him injury-prone so team cannot relly on him being full-time solution
Moses Moody - good conditioning and fundamentals, he can and should fill backup duties at SG and SF
Brandin Podziemski - obviously he took lessons from Steph and he can and should take backup PG duties, for short spurts he can play backup complimentary role at SG
Cory Joseph - too slow on defense so his ceiling is to be neutral on good shooting nights
Dario Saric - too slow on defense so his ceiling is to be neutral on good shooting nights, no inside threat
Kevon Looney - too slow to be an inside threat or rim protector, basically he hides on the offense killing the flow, capable of backup center duties or start versus Sacramento
Jonathan Kuminga - as SF makes a lot of mistakes on plays started at permeter, the timeline for his basketball IQ is not in favor of Big Three window, so on good shooting nights his ceiling is to be neutral, as PF he can fill dunker spot or roller role and be a serious inside threat worth of backup PF duties right now
Trayce Jackson-Davis - at 23 years old (older than Kuminga and Moody) he is mature enough to play in Warriors system, by default he is the only one athletically suited for starting center position able to finish above the rim or protect the rim

Basically the team success depends on solving the center position either via a trade or giving that job to TJD.

My minutes distribution:
PG Curry 34, Podziemski 14
SG Thompson 32, Moody 16
SF Wiggins 30, Payton 18
PF Green 32, Kuminga 16
C Jackson-Davis 28, Looney 20

[vagelis]

TJD seems good enough to get a lot minutes in current Warriors roster that lacks good bigs.
I don't know if he is a starting caliber NBA player but currently he maybe is a starter in this Warriors roster.
We have to see him more

[Romulus]

TJD seems good enough to get a lot minutes in current Warriors roster that lacks good bigs.
I don't know if he is a starting caliber NBA player but currently he maybe is a starter in this Warriors roster.
We have to see him more

Who knows how good this guy really is? Hard to say at this point; however, it is OBVIOUS he is better than anything else they have on the roster. He's undersized but he can block shots, he can get rebounds, he can defend, and he can finish around the rim.
And ultimately, he gives you the best chance to win. Why Kerr has totally ignored him for most of the year truly is baffling.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Kerr don’t like rookie type mistakes.

Trayce is a rookie but he might be ahead of Kuminga at understanding what to do on the court in fast correct split second reactions.

Looney is very smart but Trayce can jump and Trayce is not dumb. Trayce is no Wiseman.

[HiRez]

Kerr don’t like rookie type mistakes.

Kerr just holds young players to a different standard because our ring-wearing veterans commit "rookie type mistakes" all the freakin' time! Lazy passes, stepping out of bounds, over-helping inside and having to run out of control at players on the perimeter, fouling poor shooters 30 feet from the hoop or with time running out, failing to foul up by 3, reach-in fouls when your guy already has you beat, and yes, even completely losing their man on defense resulting in dunks and layups. It's all there.

There's a few things the young guys do more, like losing the ball because of hesitations (ie. over processing instead of reacting), switching onto the wrong guy, and biting on pump fakes. But also the more they play, the better they're going to be at correcting those things. I don't want this to be another situation like last year where Kerr froze out the young guys while "chasing wins", while not actually resulting in many (any?) additional wins, and leaving them with a bunch of pieces unprepared to contribute consistently when it matters at the end. If Kuminga, Moody, Podz, and TJD are all playing 20-25 minutes, in every game, it's going to be better off in the end because they'll be able to play and the old guys won't have the wheels falling off.

[DevinVassell]

Kerr don’t like rookie type mistakes.

Kerr just holds young players to a different standard because our ring-wearing veterans commit "rookie type mistakes" all the freakin' time! Lazy passes, stepping out of bounds, over-helping inside and having to run out of control at players on the perimeter, fouling poor shooters 30 feet from the hoop or with time running out, failing to foul up by 3, reach-in fouls when your guy already has you beat, and yes, even completely losing their man on defense resulting in dunks and layups. It's all there.

There's a few things the young guys do more, like losing the ball because of hesitations (ie. over processing instead of reacting), switching onto the wrong guy, and biting on pump fakes. But also the more they play, the better they're going to be at correcting those things. I don't want this to be another situation like last year where Kerr froze out the young guys while "chasing wins", while not actually resulting in many (any?) additional wins, and leaving them with a bunch of pieces unprepared to contribute consistently when it matters at the end. If Kuminga, Moody, Podz, and TJD are all playing 20-25 minutes, in every game, it's going to be better off in the end because they'll be able to play and the old guys won't have the wheels falling off.

Nailed it.

[jozef]

Well, if CP3 27 minutes would go to Podz and Moody then we would be fine. 14 minutes to Podz as PG backup and 13 minutes to Moody at SG.

[jozef]

But this thread was meant to be about starting center. A lot of backup centers in the leauge are taller and more athletic than GSW starter.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

But this thread was meant to be about starting center. A lot of backup centers in the leauge are taller and more athletic than GSW starter.

Trayce J Davis is everything I hoped for but I wish he was 6’ 11” version of himself instead of 6’ 9” reality.

Wasn’t Dwight Howard only 6’ 9” when measured accurately?

And Ben Wallace 6’ 6” like Draymond? If you don’t count the hair. Of course the hair was probably where all his power came from.

[jozef]

Yes, TJD is more PF than C but he is the best and only option now. The most expensive roster is built that way.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Yes, TJD is more PF than C but he is the best and only option now. The most expensive roster is built that way.

He plays like a center. His having faster than center speed and shorter than center height does not make him a power forward.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Trayce Davis + 25 tonight
Looney -19 tonight.

I will never dog Looney. Looney has earned my loyalty but we should not be afraid to play Trayce Davis.

Saric has been OK. We can play Trayce at PF with Saric or Looney while Draymond is out. Trayce is fast enough for power forward but I do see him as a center.