We need a playable starting center

jozef · Post #1 » by **jozef** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:23 pm

It is unbelievable how unathletic GSW center position is. There is no other team in the NBA possessing so litlle athleticism at center position. It is a disgrace to the talent and work and put a lot of stress on other positions.
(Steph can dribble out of this mess sometimes but Klay is obvious victim of such an imbalance.)
I have created a last game video samples:

Watch on YouTube

TB · Post #2 » by TB » Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:02 pm

I'm fine with always having Loon or Trayce or Dray or Garuba at center...

but if the Nets are worried about re-signing Claxton, would a Kuminga/Trayce/Joseph for Claxton be anywhere close to the realm of realistic?

CDM_Stats · Post #3 » by **CDM_Stats** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:22 pm

TB wrote:I'm fine with always having Loon or Trayce or Dray or Garuba at center...

but if the Nets are worried about re-signing Claxton, would a Kuminga/Trayce/Joseph for Claxton be anywhere close to the realm of realistic?

Looney still a solid net positive despite the fact that he's had to play the Draymond role more this year than before.. like Wiggins, his defensive efficiency is dependent on Draymond being the defensive QB and calling the shots, and not forcing either of them to do what Dray does.

I'm more concerned with Looney's TO rate, which has doubled. Just 0.5 to 1, but part of Looney's appeal is that he doesnt make mistakes with the ball, and he's done that more than usual (even w/o Dray, he typically was at under 0.5 a game). But this is the domino effect of Klay's ongoing issues and Wiggins' (hopefully) rearview issues. Others try and pick up the slack and do more than they typically would. Looney is covering more ground on defense (Dray's injury/suspension) and is challenging less shots this year because of it. When he gets the ball on offense, its with less time on the shot clock than before and more typically a broken play than before (observed, no stat for that). Getting a more athletic big doesn't address a root cause at all, its just attacking symptoms, and that never works

EvanZ · Post #4 » by **EvanZ** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:51 pm

TB wrote:I'm fine with always having Loon or Trayce or Dray or Garuba at center...

but if the Nets are worried about re-signing Claxton, would a Kuminga/Trayce/Joseph for Claxton be anywhere close to the realm of realistic?

Ah, Nic Claxton. The guy I wanted at 28.

Read on Twitter

Jester_ · Post #5 » by **Jester_** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:14 pm

EvanZ wrote:
TB wrote:I'm fine with always having Loon or Trayce or Dray or Garuba at center...

but if the Nets are worried about re-signing Claxton, would a Kuminga/Trayce/Joseph for Claxton be anywhere close to the realm of realistic?

Ah, Nic Claxton. The guy I wanted at 28.

Read on Twitter

Kuminga over Franz
Moses over Sengun
Wiseman over Melo
Poole over Claxton
Jacob Evans over GTJ

Hindsight 20/20 and all that but yeesh we've had some brutal at-bats on draft night over the last few years. Saddest part is every one of those picks I remember people on this board complaining about.

Onus · Post #6 » by **Onus** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:21 pm

Jester_ wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
TB wrote:I'm fine with always having Loon or Trayce or Dray or Garuba at center...

but if the Nets are worried about re-signing Claxton, would a Kuminga/Trayce/Joseph for Claxton be anywhere close to the realm of realistic?

Ah, Nic Claxton. The guy I wanted at 28.

Read on Twitter

Kuminga over Franz
Moses over Sengun
Wiseman over Melo
Poole over Claxton
Jacob Evans over GTJ

Hindsight 20/20 and all that but yeesh we've had some brutal at-bats on draft night over the last few years. Saddest part is every one of those picks I remember people on this board complaining about.

Our drafting has been awful and there's people that really don't want to admit it.

This year seemed to have changed so ... hopefully we're out of the bad drafting

CDM_Stats · Post #7 » by **CDM_Stats** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:23 pm

I'd still take Moody over Sengun 10 of 10 times.. imagine if Moody was able to play 20mpg / 30mpg / 30mpg the past 3 seasons, where he could be at development-wise instead of being benched for shooting too perfectly in a close game

Same reason Saric wont ever supplant Looney

Jester_ · Post #8 » by **Jester_** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:44 pm

CDM_Stats wrote:I'd still take Moody over Sengun 10 of 10 times.. imagine if Moody was able to play 20mpg / 30mpg / 30mpg the past 3 seasons, where he could be at development-wise instead of being benched for shooting too perfectly in a close game

Same reason Saric wont ever supplant Looney

I agree... I think. Just hurts a bit more palpably to think of Sengun and Franz both landing on the Warriors from the same draft.

EvanZ · Post #9 » by **EvanZ** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:49 pm

Read on Twitter

CDM_Stats · Post #10 » by **CDM_Stats** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:53 pm

Jester_ wrote:
CDM_Stats wrote:I'd still take Moody over Sengun 10 of 10 times.. imagine if Moody was able to play 20mpg / 30mpg / 30mpg the past 3 seasons, where he could be at development-wise instead of being benched for shooting too perfectly in a close game

Same reason Saric wont ever supplant Looney

I agree... I think. Just hurts a bit more palpably to think of Sengun and Franz both landing on the Warriors from the same draft.

So much lost value

I think the craziest part, by Kerr's own admission, is that they actually were trying to do 2 timelines, not picking for fit. And in that regard, of course you pick Sengun over Moody if you are trying to rebuild. Only reason to not take Sengun is that the fit with Draymond and the current roster would have made it tough

The Kuminga/Moody selection was like a 50/50 of long-term rebuild and trying to win now... but based on Kerr's usage of Moody, they may have had him above Sengun even in a rebuild

EvanZ · Post #11 » by **EvanZ** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:05 pm

Keep in mind Sengun literally grew 2 inches since draft night. That's not something you can predict. 6'9" Sengun is not the same guy.

HiRez · Post #12 » by **HiRez** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:27 pm

Jester_ wrote:Wiseman over Melo Haliburton

Fixed. (And yes, I said I'd take Haliburton over Ball at the time, but I can't take much credit because I was also good with them taking Wiseman :nonono:

)

CDM_Stats · Post #13 » by **CDM_Stats** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:57 pm

EvanZ wrote:Keep in mind Sengun literally grew 2 inches since draft night. That's not something you can predict. 6'9" Sengun is not the same guy.

I honestly thought that was just a running gag since they listed him at 6'11

IIRC his wingspan was 7' even at 6'9, so would stand to reason his wingspan is now likely in the 7'2 - 7'3 range. That'll definitely help w/mobility issues

Warriorfan · Post #14 » by **Warriorfan** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:03 pm

It's a fact Looney is good enough to be starting C on a championship team.

He is paid below the mle

EvanZ · Post #15 » by **EvanZ** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:14 pm

Also fwiw I'd take Trey Murphy over Sengun right now and he's a much better fit for us.

jozef · Post #16 » by **jozef** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:10 pm

Oh, there is an ultimate evidence of athletic incompetency in that video. They would probably struggle to play center in Euroleague.
I wonder if many of you ever did any sport.
Just right in the first scene Kevon catched the ball on FT line. Instead of exploring open lane for a monster dunk he looked for Saric on the block. That alone should make you sick.
Their lift and athletic ability in all other scenes are just a tragedy. They are basically humiliated.
And a lof of you have balls to complain about "washed up" Klay

I took basketball lessons from Utah Jazz and I see two similar issues:
- incompetent center position cost them a threepeat (just switch Greg Ostertag and Luc Longley), you could get lucky sometimes buy most of time there is no margin for error
- Jeff Hornacek playing on one leg was a legit force shooting lights out cause of Karl Malone inside presence (analogy with Klay situation) just look at Vezenkov block on Saric, if Dario could finish it with an authority it would get whole team in a rhythm, a synergy effect, instead of it the team execution fades away.
Well, if it is not obvious to you... I am 53 on Monday, I still workout and play, being in great shape I probably keep higher bar for NBA players in my evaluations and I feel sorry especially for Steph (and Steve).

DonaldSanders · Post #17 » by **DonaldSanders** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:31 pm

jozef wrote:Oh, there is an ultimate evidence of athletic incompetency in that video. They would probably struggle to play center in Euroleague.
I wonder if many of you ever did any sport.
Just right in the first scene Kevon catched the ball on FT line. Instead of exploring open lane for a monster dunk he looked for Saric on the block. That alone should make you sick.
Their lift and athletic ability in all other scenes are just a tragedy. They are basically humiliated.
And a lof of you have balls to complain about "washed up" Klay
I took basketball lessons from Utah Jazz and I see two similar issues:
- incompetent center position cost them a threepeat (just switch Greg Ostertag and Luc Longley), you could get lucky sometimes buy most of time there is no margin for error
- Jeff Hornacek playing on one leg was a legit force shooting lights out cause of Karl Malone inside presence (analogy with Klay situation) just look at Vezenkov block on Saric, if Dario could finish it with an authority it would get whole team in a rhythm, a synergy effect, instead of it the team execution fades away.
Well, if it is not obvious to you... I am 53 on Monday, I still workout and play, being in great shape I probably keep higher bar for NBA players in my evaluations and I feel sorry especially for Steph (and Steve).

Wow basketball lessons from the great Utah Jazz, oh tell me more about those 0 championships and what it takes! If only the Utah Jazz at some point had a center like Rudy Gobert, they'd have been guaranteed a championship. Just so unlucky.

Tell us more about your workout, do you stretch before or after your cane exercises?

Coxy · Post #18 » by **Coxy** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:35 pm

A look through the full list of NBA centres around the league is quite depressing. Some of the young athletic guys in the league now I'm really envious of, it just drives the Wiseman (and to some extent Kuminga) knife further into the Warrior soul.

Jalen Duran
Daniel Gafford
Nic Claxton
Mitchell Robinson
Mark Williams
Dereck Lively
Robert Williams

Wiseman is just the biggest shame ever for us. If that guy could have turned into at least one of the guys above, we'd be a completely differen't team moving forward. I'm not even montioning 10-12 other young centres without that elite athletic ability as well. It's just so sad that we got that 2 pick so wrong. Maybe there's a curse of getting the 2nd pick in that year that is hovering over the franchise. The ghost of Nellie keeping us small at all times?

Coxy · Post #19 » by **Coxy** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:39 pm

Warriorfan wrote:It's a fact Looney is good enough to be starting C on a championship team.

He is paid below the mle

Look around the league now. We got away with Loon at C for the last run, but the league has changed again with more young athletic centres with skills that he just can't keep up with now. Add in the fact that he looks a step slower and older this season as well.

Looney won't age well in the league. Hell, he didn't age well as a young player either. He may need a walker at age 30.

DevinVassell · Post #20 » by **DevinVassell** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:14 pm

My kingdom for a real center.

Looney is a trooper and on a decent contract. But we have won despite him, not because of him. He is a stopgap and a good one.

I swear almost everyone in this franchise gets ridiculous amounts of credit for our 4 championships from Bob (lol) to Steve to hotdog stand selling Harry when the vast, vast majority of credit has something to do with a once in a genetation HofF kid called Steph...

If we are handing out more credit give a good dose to Lacob whom turned around our gutterside franchise and spent big to do it.