2024 JK Thread

[SpreeChokeJob]

All aboard the K-Train. Last one in this thread who is still doubling down on their first take has to stand, all seats are taken.

[vvoland]

Kerr clearly and publicly articulated his vision of this player. He wasn’t getting results that supported that vision and he explicitly stated that he was removing him from the rotation. Then he ran out of players and JK exploded doing the things he doesn’t best which translates into a completely different player than what Kerr said he envisioned. This is all in the record and not really debatable.

I’m not laying any blame I’m trying to more accurately place credit.

Kerr wasn’t trying to develop the kind of player JK is becoming so crediting him with that development doesn’t resonate.

If we want to credit someone with JK’s development, start with JK. After that, I’d probably tip my cap to Draymond who seems to be the one who wanted JK on the floor (and ironically made room for him)

The credit 100% goes to JK, I won't argue wit that.

It's less credit for development but more blame for lack thereof (or lack of opportunities in the first two years of JK/Moody). Kerr did articulate, often to the public, that he saw JK as a Shawn Marion type. A jack of all trades that pops on defense and the glass. 100% agree that was not who JK was or will be.

JK becoming the #2 option as soon as he got consistent run was a surprise to me and I'm as high on the kid as anyone I know. He also changed his shot diet and decision making. Less holding the ball, more attacking the rim, minimal mid-range jacking. I also don't trust Kerr's public commentary much since, if he was truthful, Moody would be a 30mpg player considering how much Kerr publicly praises the guy.

Not sure what was holding Kerr back from playing JK. He was erratic on defense, especially against quick, crafty guards like fox & monk. He was a ball-stopper on offense and didn't really fit with the dubs' style of play. Despite those two major flaws, JK was instrumental in helping the team secure a non-play-in spot last year, came up huge in big moments when wigs was out, and still got buried on the bench come play-off time.

I'm glad Kerr has allowed JK to play more like himself on offense while also acknowledging that JK made huge strides in modifying his game to fit with the dubs' offensively. It actually looks like his on-ball defense has regressed a bit from late last season outside of some big crunch-time moments but his offensive leap has been more than enough to balance it all out. If he gets to 80% from the line and around 35% from 3, he'll be far ahead of even my own lofty expectations for him at 21.

[wco81]

He's going to have to develop more consistency on his jump shot, both from 3 and midrange, so that he could be a 3-level scorer.

This is his third season and 3-point percentage is one area where he hasn't shown progression.

Then he could get his big bag.

Then Draymond can punch him.

[TB]

Franz consistent struggles from 3 is making their career trajectories get closer by the week.

[SpreeChokeJob]

Kerr clearly and publicly articulated his vision of this player. He wasn’t getting results that supported that vision and he explicitly stated that he was removing him from the rotation. Then he ran out of players and JK exploded doing the things he doesn’t best which translates into a completely different player than what Kerr said he envisioned. This is all in the record and not really debatable.

I’m not laying any blame I’m trying to more accurately place credit.

Kerr wasn’t trying to develop the kind of player JK is becoming so crediting him with that development doesn’t resonate.

If we want to credit someone with JK’s development, start with JK. After that, I’d probably tip my cap to Draymond who seems to be the one who wanted JK on the floor (and ironically made room for him)

The credit 100% goes to JK, I won't argue wit that.

It's less credit for development but more blame for lack thereof (or lack of opportunities in the first two years of JK/Moody). Kerr did articulate, often to the public, that he saw JK as a Shawn Marion type. A jack of all trades that pops on defense and the glass. 100% agree that was not who JK was or will be.

JK becoming the #2 option as soon as he got consistent run was a surprise to me and I'm as high on the kid as anyone I know. He also changed his shot diet and decision making. Less holding the ball, more attacking the rim, minimal mid-range jacking. I also don't trust Kerr's public commentary much since, if he was truthful, Moody would be a 30mpg player considering how much Kerr publicly praises the guy.

Not sure what was holding Kerr back from playing JK. He was erratic on defense, especially against quick, crafty guards like fox & monk. He was a ball-stopper on offense and didn't really fit with the dubs' style of play. Despite those two major flaws, JK was instrumental in helping the team secure a non-play-in spot last year, came up huge in big moments when wigs was out, and still got buried on the bench come play-off time.

I'm glad Kerr has allowed JK to play more like himself on offense while also acknowledging that JK made huge strides in modifying his game to fit with the dubs' offensively. It actually looks like his on-ball defense has regressed a bit from late last season outside of some big crunch-time moments but his offensive leap has been more than enough to balance it all out. If he gets to 80% from the line and around 35% from 3, he'll be far ahead of even my own lofty expectations for him at 21.

It was the braids. Kerr’s a braidcist. As soon as Moody goes to the barber, his minutes will skyrocket. Podz no braids, gets starter minutes.

[vvoland]

Kerr clearly and publicly articulated his vision of this player. He wasn’t getting results that supported that vision and he explicitly stated that he was removing him from the rotation. Then he ran out of players and JK exploded doing the things he doesn’t best which translates into a completely different player than what Kerr said he envisioned. This is all in the record and not really debatable.

I’m not laying any blame I’m trying to more accurately place credit.

Kerr wasn’t trying to develop the kind of player JK is becoming so crediting him with that development doesn’t resonate.

If we want to credit someone with JK’s development, start with JK. After that, I’d probably tip my cap to Draymond who seems to be the one who wanted JK on the floor (and ironically made room for him)

The credit 100% goes to JK, I won't argue wit that.

It's less credit for development but more blame for lack thereof (or lack of opportunities in the first two years of JK/Moody). Kerr did articulate, often to the public, that he saw JK as a Shawn Marion type. A jack of all trades that pops on defense and the glass. 100% agree that was not who JK was or will be.

JK becoming the #2 option as soon as he got consistent run was a surprise to me and I'm as high on the kid as anyone I know. He also changed his shot diet and decision making. Less holding the ball, more attacking the rim, minimal mid-range jacking. I also don't trust Kerr's public commentary much since, if he was truthful, Moody would be a 30mpg player considering how much Kerr publicly praises the guy.

Not sure what was holding Kerr back from playing JK. He was erratic on defense, especially against quick, crafty guards like fox & monk. He was a ball-stopper on offense and didn't really fit with the dubs' style of play. Despite those two major flaws, JK was instrumental in helping the team secure a non-play-in spot last year, came up huge in big moments when wigs was out, and still got buried on the bench come play-off time.

I'm glad Kerr has allowed JK to play more like himself on offense while also acknowledging that JK made huge strides in modifying his game to fit with the dubs' offensively. It actually looks like his on-ball defense has regressed a bit from late last season outside of some big crunch-time moments but his offensive leap has been more than enough to balance it all out. If he gets to 80% from the line and around 35% from 3, he'll be far ahead of even my own lofty expectations for him at 21.

It was the braids. Kerr’s a braidcist. As soon as Moody goes to the barber, his minutes will skyrocket. Podz no braids, gets starter minutes.

You know, it's not the worst theory I've heard. I thought it was pretty clear JK first cut his own hair and was looking tragic out there. Seemed like a young man's frustration led to a drastic physical change. Glad to see he got it touched up by a professional shortly thereafter.

[SpreeChokeJob]

The credit 100% goes to JK, I won't argue wit that.

It's less credit for development but more blame for lack thereof (or lack of opportunities in the first two years of JK/Moody). Kerr did articulate, often to the public, that he saw JK as a Shawn Marion type. A jack of all trades that pops on defense and the glass. 100% agree that was not who JK was or will be.

JK becoming the #2 option as soon as he got consistent run was a surprise to me and I'm as high on the kid as anyone I know. He also changed his shot diet and decision making. Less holding the ball, more attacking the rim, minimal mid-range jacking. I also don't trust Kerr's public commentary much since, if he was truthful, Moody would be a 30mpg player considering how much Kerr publicly praises the guy.

Not sure what was holding Kerr back from playing JK. He was erratic on defense, especially against quick, crafty guards like fox & monk. He was a ball-stopper on offense and didn't really fit with the dubs' style of play. Despite those two major flaws, JK was instrumental in helping the team secure a non-play-in spot last year, came up huge in big moments when wigs was out, and still got buried on the bench come play-off time.

I'm glad Kerr has allowed JK to play more like himself on offense while also acknowledging that JK made huge strides in modifying his game to fit with the dubs' offensively. It actually looks like his on-ball defense has regressed a bit from late last season outside of some big crunch-time moments but his offensive leap has been more than enough to balance it all out. If he gets to 80% from the line and around 35% from 3, he'll be far ahead of even my own lofty expectations for him at 21.

It was the braids. Kerr’s a braidcist. As soon as Moody goes to the barber, his minutes will skyrocket. Podz no braids, gets starter minutes.

You know, it's not the worst theory I've heard. I thought it was pretty clear JK first cut his own hair and was looking tragic out there. Seemed like a young man's frustration led to a drastic physical change. Glad to see he got it touched up by a professional shortly thereafter.

I was only joking, but strangely my jokes more sense than some Kerr lineups.

[Sleepy51]

Just got pointed out to me today that JK has played the 2nd most minutes with Klay on the team (2nd to Curry)

I’m not saying it’s conscious but Kerr is sandbagging JK and this pairing is throttling his production and metrics. With Klay on the floor there are shots that JK defers and JK’s defensive faults are exacerbated by the worst 2nd effort player on the team.

[Onus]

Just got pointed out to me today that JK has played the 2nd most minutes with Klay on the team (2nd to Curry)

I’m not saying it’s conscious but Kerr is sandbagging JK and this pairing is throttling his production and metrics. With Klay on the floor there are shots that JK defers and JK’s defensive faults are exacerbated by the worst 2nd effort player on the team.

I think Kerr is trying to open up the paint for JK by playing him with either Klay or Curry, though either Curry or Klay are usually on the floor at all times. We just don't have any other shooters on the team, so JK has to play with either Curry or Klay. I mean doesn't everyone play with either Curry or Klay?

The team desperately needs more shooting. We only have 2 real shooters the rest are shooting basically below avg on below avg attempts per game.

[Sleepy51]

Just got pointed out to me today that JK has played the 2nd most minutes with Klay on the team (2nd to Curry)

I’m not saying it’s conscious but Kerr is sandbagging JK and this pairing is throttling his production and metrics. With Klay on the floor there are shots that JK defers and JK’s defensive faults are exacerbated by the worst 2nd effort player on the team.

I think Kerr is trying to open up the paint for JK by playing him with either Klay or Curry, though either Curry or Klay are usually on the floor at all times. We just don't have any other shooters on the team, so JK has to play with either Curry or Klay. I mean doesn't everyone play with either Curry or Klay?

The team desperately needs more shooting. We only have 2 real shooters the rest are shooting basically below avg on below avg attempts per game.

Oh I get the theory, but the reality is Klay spacing out the floor doesn't accomplish anything. H's just missing heavily contested shots that JK is deferring to him.

[Sleepy51]

I'll also re-posit the theory that while we don't have major threat shooters, we do have guys who would make more of their long distance shots if not for a team dynamic that actively discourages them from taking those shots with confidence. At some point during the post KD era we went from a culture of "Pass up a good shot for a great shot" to "Pass up a shot until the ball gets to Klay or Curry." Everyone is enculturated to believe they should be deferring to Klay along with Curry and that's not the case anymore. We've had a few free agent pickups who were suppose the be able to shoot the ball, but the weird culture and pressures here killer their shot. I'm pretty certain that is happening some degree with Moody, Wiggins, Pods, JK, Dario and GPII. I'm not saying they'd be good shooters elsewhere, but the Klayture is depressing their % at least a little.

[Onus]

I'll also re-posit the theory that while we don't have major threat shooters, we do have guys who would make more of their long distance shots if not for a team dynamic that actively discourages them from taking those shots with confidence. At some point during the post KD era we went from a culture of "Pass up a good shot for a great shot" to "Pass up a shot until the ball gets to Klay or Curry." Everyone is enculturated to believe they should be deferring to Klay along with Curry and that's not the case anymore. We've had a few free agent pickups who were suppose the be able to shoot the ball, but the weird culture and pressures here killer their shot. I'm pretty certain that is happening some degree with Moody, Wiggins, Pods, JK, Dario and GPII. I'm not saying they'd be good shooters elsewhere, but the Klayture is depressing their % at least a little.

I've been an advocate for sending Klay home all season. Hopefully this just ensures it for next season. I can't imagine having 2 more years of this.

[CDM_Stats]

Klay's presence absolutely helps JK's driving ability - in fact there's a debate coming down the pipeline where JK's effectiveness is in serious question when he's not paired with an elite shooter, be it Klay or Curry (or both). Its why if the team can contend in any way, JK is necessary, but if the team is done done, like they look, this is what "sell high" was made for

But there's absolutely legs to the idea of how deep Klay's negative impact is. Some his fault, some Kerr's fault. Kerr putting him in a position where he's actually the primary help defender on the low block, and also responsible for rebounding? Absolutely not Klay's fault, he's done nothing to show that its even worth the attempt, yet Kerr does it. That said, Kerr isnt forcing Klay to chuck, quit on plays, etc etc.. and the team absolutely does defer to him because a bad Klay shot seems to be > a quality anyone else besides Curry shot, at least in Warrior math

Between that, and Klay's diminishing on-ball defense which has made Kerr go full-on mad scientist in trying to keep him in the 30mpg range.. there is no one player more detrimental to the team right now than Klay Thompson and that argument may go back as far as last year, even with Poole's transition into full-time joke

[Onus]

Klay's presence absolutely helps JK's driving ability - in fact there's a debate coming down the pipeline where JK's effectiveness is in serious question when he's not paired with an elite shooter, be it Klay or Curry (or both). Its why if the team can contend in any way, JK is necessary, but if the team is done done, like they look, this is what "sell high" was made for

But there's absolutely legs to the idea of how deep Klay's negative impact is. Some his fault, some Kerr's fault. Kerr putting him in a position where he's actually the primary help defender on the low block, and also responsible for rebounding? Absolutely not Klay's fault, he's done nothing to show that its even worth the attempt, yet Kerr does it. That said, Kerr isnt forcing Klay to chuck, quit on plays, etc etc.. and the team absolutely does defer to him because a bad Klay shot seems to be > a quality anyone else besides Curry shot, at least in Warrior math

Between that, and Klay's diminishing on-ball defense which has made Kerr go full-on mad scientist in trying to keep him in the 30mpg range.. there is no one player more detrimental to the team right now than Klay Thompson and that argument may go back as far as last year, even with Poole's transition into full-time joke

The biggest issue to me is that we have too many players vying for shots with none of the options really being all that great. We have JK who needs post ups and isolations. We have Klay who needs to run around screens or run pick and roll with TJD. We have CP3 who needs to run pick and roll. We have Wiggins who needs post ups and isolations. None of those options are really great options at all.

We have no identity outside of Steph. Everything relies on Steph because all of our other options are avg to below avg. Basically if Steph doesn't score 30 + we aren't winning. Which makes last night against the wolves even more perplexing since Steph was actually having a decent game and got to 30, which means we had a higher chance of winning. But Kerr is still searching for an identity for someone to step up but there is no one capable of stepping up especially against a good defense.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Klay's presence absolutely helps JK's driving ability - in fact there's a debate coming down the pipeline where JK's effectiveness is in serious question when he's not paired with an elite shooter, be it Klay or Curry (or both). Its why if the team can contend in any way, JK is necessary, but if the team is done done, like they look, this is what "sell high" was made for

But there's absolutely legs to the idea of how deep Klay's negative impact is. Some his fault, some Kerr's fault. Kerr putting him in a position where he's actually the primary help defender on the low block, and also responsible for rebounding? Absolutely not Klay's fault, he's done nothing to show that its even worth the attempt, yet Kerr does it. That said, Kerr isnt forcing Klay to chuck, quit on plays, etc etc.. and the team absolutely does defer to him because a bad Klay shot seems to be > a quality anyone else besides Curry shot, at least in Warrior math

Between that, and Klay's diminishing on-ball defense which has made Kerr go full-on mad scientist in trying to keep him in the 30mpg range.. there is no one player more detrimental to the team right now than Klay Thompson and that argument may go back as far as last year, even with Poole's transition into full-time joke

The biggest issue to me is that we have too many players vying for shots with none of the options really being all that great. We have JK who needs post ups and isolations. We have Klay who needs to run around screens or run pick and roll with TJD. We have CP3 who needs to run pick and roll. We have Wiggins who needs post ups and isolations. None of those options are really great options at all.

We have no identity outside of Steph. Everything relies on Steph because all of our other options are avg to below avg. Basically if Steph doesn't score 30 + we aren't winning. Which makes last night against the wolves even more perplexing since Steph was actually having a decent game and got to 30, which means we had a higher chance of winning. But Kerr is still searching for an identity for someone to step up but there is no one capable of stepping up especially against a good defense.

We do have options. Sending jk and wiggins downhill works. Wiggs is shooting over 40% for the last few months to help with spacing.

The problems happen in the 4th when what worked fir the first 3 quarters, gets used sparingly. We almost always pivot to a barrage of 3 balls and quick shots. Players will defer to steph (which they should) and klay (which they shouldnt). We essentially have 3 players monopolizing the offense regardless of play, and others are expected to defer. But when they are needed, can't step up because aren't part of the offense. So, they either continue to defer or force it.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Starting it a little early. I continue to see growth from him. Hoping it continues. It would be great for GS to have a forward who was both effective and athletic.

Kuminga greatly improved over 2023 but his improvement curve has stopped so far in 2024. If he improves as much in 2024 as he did in 2023 he will be an all-star next season.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Young guy that is entirely reliant on his athleticism having knee issues is a little concerning. Initially he was diagnosed with tendinitis, similar to what tjd and klay had. There's got to be more. I doubt they are just sitting a healthy jk.

[wco81]

I wonder if it's just the injury or the coaches are using a convenient excuse because the team's been doing okay without him.

Certainly these games now should be all hands on deck but maybe he's been a negative on court in the last set of games he played so they're really letting him rest.

[vvoland]

I wonder if it's just the injury or the coaches are using a convenient excuse because the team's been doing okay without him.

Certainly these games now should be all hands on deck but maybe he's been a negative on court in the last set of games he played so they're really letting him rest.

I've been wondering that myself. Quietly. To myself. But now that you said it..

[EvanZ]

Why is the media talking about Kuminga vs Wiggins now? It's hilarious. If Wiggins is actually playing like a real wing again, meaning he can shoot, then there is no issue whatsoever. Then you start JK, Wiggins and Dray and bring TJD off the bench. It's only when Wiggins is playing like **** that you don't want him on the court. When he's playing like this the only concern is that he turtles himself again.

If it were me I'd bring JK and Klay off the bench and start Steph/Moody/Wiggins/Draymond/TJD. But that's just me.