2024 JK Thread

[floppymoose]

I think he's closer to JRich than amare in terms of how they use their athletic gifts.

I've been one pushing the Amare comparison, but I have also been thinking about JRich recently as well.

His body type is closer to Amare. His play style is closer to JRich.

Its his first step that is worlds different from JRich.

[Crazy-Canuck]

With his offense becoming more consistent, next step will be trying to find a role for him on defense.

Kerr has been moving him around to find one for him. Just since the as break: kerr has had him as poa, wing stopper, scrambler, low man rebounder/help. He's hasn't been particularly good in any of them.

Right now, it's best to slide him between dray and wiggins. Unfortunately, kerr has gone away from that.

He looks best at pf, especially if he can become an average rebounder.

[whatisacenter]

With his offense becoming more consistent, next step will be trying to find a role for him on defense.

Kerr has been moving him around to find one for him. Just since the as break: kerr has had him as poa, wing stopper, scrambler, low man rebounder/help. He's hasn't been particularly good in any of them.

Right now, it's best to slide him between dray and wiggins. Unfortunately, kerr has gone away from that.

He looks best at pf, especially if he can become an average rebounder.

His improvement areas are handle, 3pt shot and defense. He needs to improve his overall court awareness as well.

He seems to work hard and his feel has already improved. I’m not worried and believe he will become a versatile player on both sides of the ball.

[Coxy]

With his offense becoming more consistent, next step will be trying to find a role for him on defense.

Kerr has been moving him around to find one for him. Just since the as break: kerr has had him as poa, wing stopper, scrambler, low man rebounder/help. He's hasn't been particularly good in any of them.

Right now, it's best to slide him between dray and wiggins. Unfortunately, kerr has gone away from that.

He looks best at pf, especially if he can become an average rebounder.

His improvement areas are handle, 3pt shot and defense. He needs to improve his overall court awareness as well.

He seems to work hard and his feel has already improved. I’m not worried and believe he will become a versatile player on both sides of the ball.

I think Kuminga’s next step should be completely based around a Kawhi/Derozan level mid-range game. If he can master his off the dribble mid range game with face up and back to basket moves, he’d be a huge threat at all times from the high post position. If defenders all of a sudden have to be worried about him simply rising up over them for an easy jumper, then the lane will open up for him allowing him to drive score or kick.

I’d love for him to try and spend this summer working out with Kawhi or Demar.

[Dubs 707]

How about Shawn Livingston?

[SpreeChokeJob]

He’s bigger stronger Shai which is scary as he keeps developing. His growth has been substantial and there is still room for growth. As he gets more familiar with defenses, he will score more easily. If they surround him with shooters and he recognizes when to drive and when to pass, he will be extremely deadly in the same way Lebron can be.

[oaktownwarriors87]

He doesn't have a bag and he very inconsistently imposes his athleticism. I still don't see the hype.

He joins Michael Beasley, Zach Randolph, Carmelo Anthony, Glenn Robinson, Walter Berry, Cedric Ceballos and RJ Barrett as the only players between 20&22 to average 29/8/3+ per 100 possessions with a negative BPM.

I still struggle to see him as anything more than a very limited black hole. Joe Lacob paying Draymond Green to be his hype man is hilarious.

[floppymoose]

How can anyone think JK is a black hole?

[HiRez]

He doesn't have a bag and he very inconsistently imposes his athleticism. I still don't see the hype.

He joins Michael Beasley, Zach Randolph, Carmelo Anthony, Glenn Robinson, Walter Berry, Cedric Ceballos and RJ Barrett as the only players between 20&22 to average 29/8/3+ per 100 possessions with a negative BPM.

I still struggle to see him as anything more than a very limited black hole. Joe Lacob paying Draymond Green to be his hype man is hilarious.

BPM is a terrible stat by today's standards. The two best AIO stats today are widely considered to be DPM (ie. DARKO) and EPM, and Kuminga is comfortably above the median in both, and improving throughout the year (he started the year below median).

On his own team he ranks #6 in DPM (behind Steph, Draymond, Looney, CPP3, and GP2), and #4 in EPM (behind Steph, CP3, and Draymond).

And I will say for the #*$% millionth time he is still young, still learning, and not a finished product. He's likely going to get better and he's already pretty damn good. And he started from a place with far less basketball experience than most players, with Kerr's haphazard development, so yeah, it takes a little time.

[SpreeChokeJob]

How can anyone think JK is a black hole?

He did try to go full Kobe near the end last night. I say that not as a compliment because I wasn’t really a fan of his play. Kobe imitated MJ’s mannerisms and moves, but never his decision making. And MJ was vastly superior to Kobe because he was consistent even against triple teams. Kobe tried to imitate that, but he lacked the talent.

JK tried to impose his will on the game last night like his basketball role model. He looked like Kobrick alright when he should learn instead from watching MJ videos.

JK drew a group of defenders in the paint. They should have used that gravity, but they don’t practice using him as a first option and distributor. His natural inclination is to rely on forcing the issue. But he has made great strides considering how far he’s come and I believe he will continue to improve. When he first came here as a rookie, he was hopeless at the free throw line. Now he’s better than a lot of players on the team.

[RUN-TJM]

The next phase of his development is to learn how to deal with different looks defensively. He’s a willing passer these days but a bit more exposure to double and triple teams will help him. Get the reps up on his 3pt shot and a couple of dribble moves and he’ll be fine.

I didn’t mind his attitude towards the end of the game. We weren’t going to win and his teammates weren’t much help.

His growth offensively will allow us to use players with subpar scoring abilities like Wiggins in roles which they are more suited to and take pressure off Steph.

[floppymoose]

BPM is a terrible stat by today's standards. The two best AIO stats today are widely considered to be DPM (ie. DARKO) and EPM, and Kuminga is comfortably above the median in both, and improving throughout the year (he started the year below median).

On his own team he ranks #6 in DPM (behind Steph, Draymond, Looney, CPP3, and GP2), and #4 in EPM (behind Steph, CP3, and Draymond).

And I will say for the #*$% millionth time he is still young, still learning, and not a finished product. He's likely going to get better and he's already pretty damn good. And he started from a place with far less basketball experience than most players, with Kerr's haphazard development, so yeah, it takes a little time.

I agree with all of this except the bold. Fans always think the coach is screwing up, but where is the evidence on that for player development? Where is the young guy who got out from under Kerr and then went on to flourish?

As you say, Kuminga is young. As you say, he is improving. As you say, he had with far less basketball experience than most. As you say he is already an important player on the team at age 21. And somehow Kerr is doing a bad job here?

[billinder33]

How can anyone think JK is a black hole?

He did try to go full Kobe near the end last night. I say that not as a compliment because I wasn’t really a fan of his play.

He's struggling in most 4th quarters where teams (or CP3) are dragging the Ws into a half court game. I respect that fact that he's trying to take ownership of the game's outcome where so many others on the roster are passive, but have also accepted that the effectiveness won't be where it needs to be this season. It's why Kerr put him on bench at the end of that game.

With an offseason to process and reflect, and another year's offseason program to review tape and work on his outside shot, the 4th quarter efficiency should improve. The FO could help by bringing in some better starter-level perimeter shooting to give him more passing options when the paint collapses. Kerr could also help by coaching some better off-ball movement when Kuminga puts the ball on the floor so that he has options to pass out of a drive, rather than everyone just standing around watching, which happens way too often.

[vvoland]

BPM is a terrible stat by today's standards. The two best AIO stats today are widely considered to be DPM (ie. DARKO) and EPM, and Kuminga is comfortably above the median in both, and improving throughout the year (he started the year below median).

On his own team he ranks #6 in DPM (behind Steph, Draymond, Looney, CPP3, and GP2), and #4 in EPM (behind Steph, CP3, and Draymond).

And I will say for the #*$% millionth time he is still young, still learning, and not a finished product. He's likely going to get better and he's already pretty damn good. And he started from a place with far less basketball experience than most players, with Kerr's haphazard development, so yeah, it takes a little time.

I agree with all of this except the bold. Fans always think the coach is screwing up, but where is the evidence on that for player development? Where is the young guy who got out from under Kerr and then went on to flourish?

As you say, Kuminga is young. As you say, he is improving. As you say, he had with far less basketball experience than most. As you say he is already an important player on the team at age 21. And somehow Kerr is doing a bad job here?

That is the best argument I can make for Kerr's player development. The only player to even have a career outside of GS is Chris Boucher but that's neither on Kerr nor the FO.

Everyone else that we drafted and moved on from had better stints as young players under kerr than they did after GS. The narrative that Kerr hates young players never made sense considering how much he played players like paschall and mccaw. Even wiseman got a ton of run before his knee blew out and, of course, podz this season.

We all wanted to see more JK and Moody last season (and this year, especially early). No one had access to the locker room or knew what the coaches were asking or how the kids were performing in practice. It seems obvious to me that JK had to change his approach on the floor and to increase his minutes. Why that wasn't clear before he called kerr out in the media is a mystery to me but it probably had something to do with a language, culture and age gap but that's just idle speculation. What is obvious is JK didn't know what the coaches wanted to see to increase his minutes. The easy solution is just to blame Kerr for it all but I doubt a playoff team's head coach is spending a ton of time with the younger players talking development.

[Sleepy51]

While Floppy is right in a general sense that fans are hyperbolicly skeptical of coaches and lots of Kerr washouts have been NBA washouts altogether, the fly in the ointment here is that crediting him with Kuminga’s development path ignores the fact that Kuminga’s season this year was not in accordance with Kerr’s expressed wishes timeline or vision of the player. Kerr had(s) JK pegged as an off ball role playing energy guy at the 4. That’s not what he’s becoming at all. Kerr also had all but mothballed JK including a public statement that he was out of the rotation when injuries and Draymond’s suspension took that choice away from Kerr. Kuminga shoved it up his ass with an extended scoring barrage and volatile media leaks. He is becoming a different player than Kerr envisioned and at a dramatically different pace than Kerr articulated. JK’s 2024 season has been explicitly in spite of Kerr’s choices and preferences.

And as floppy has always been good at articulating, two different things can be true at the same time. Kerr has been demonstrably good at identifying players who have proven to be not worthy of development. that doesn’t not mean he has been particularly good at developing the player who has demonstrably shown to be worth developing … and then there’s Moody….
With regard to Kuminga, kerr is a lot of rooster taking credit for the dawn here.

[vvoland]

While Floppy is right in a general sense that fans are hyperbolicly skeptical of coaches and lots of Kerr washouts have been NBA washouts altogether, the fly in the ointment here is that crediting him with Kuminga’s development path ignores the fact that Kuminga’s season this year was not in accordance with Kerr’s expressed wishes timeline or vision of the player. Kerr had(s) JK pegged as an off ball role playing energy guy at the 4. That’s not what he’s becoming at all. Kerr also had all but mothballed JK including a public statement that he was out of the rotation when injuries and Draymond’s suspension took that choice away from Kerr. Kuminga shoved it up his ass with an extended scoring barrage and volatile media leaks. He is becoming a different player than Kerr envisioned and at a dramatically different pace than Kerr articulated. JK’s 2024 season has been explicitly in spite of Kerr’s choices and preferences.

And as floppy has always been good at articulating, two different things can be true at the same time. Kerr has been demonstrably good at identifying players who have proven to be not worthy of development. that doesn’t not mean he has been particularly good at developing the player who has demonstrably shown to be worth developing … and then there’s Moody….
With regard to Kuminga, kerr is a lot of rooster taking credit for the dawn here.

Not sure that's 100% accurate. I think Kerr was frustrated by JK's offensive decision making. Namely, long 2s, isolation offense and lack of ball movement. Considering how much JK seems like a people pleaser, I don't think he was doing those things to spite Kerr but, as he has said, because he did not know what the coaches wanted from him. Coming into the year, Kerr did not see JK as the 2nd scoring option, monster on the block and above avg iso scorer. He did bury him early this year and after player lamb over him last season and not playing him at all in the playoffs after he couldn't guard monk and fox, it was not a good look for Kerr.

That said, not sure how many saw the leap JK was going to take, particularly in terms of his handle, passing and attacking the rim. The early season shooting struggles were also a big factor. Wiggins, CP3 and JK couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the first month. Wasn't cp3 shooting like 7% from 3 after the first 10+ games? The lack of spacing and haphazard rotations (due to wiggins playing like the invisible man and Dray suspensions) made it tough.

None of this is to excuse Kerr's handling of the young guys. Just not sure how much of the blame pie is on him, his assistants, JK and Moody, or factors we don't really see from the cheap seats.

[Sleepy51]

Kerr clearly and publicly articulated his vision of this player. He wasn’t getting results that supported that vision and he explicitly stated that he was removing him from the rotation. Then he ran out of players and JK exploded doing the things he doesn’t best which translates into a completely different player than what Kerr said he envisioned. This is all in the record and not really debatable.

I’m not laying any blame I’m trying to more accurately place credit.

Kerr wasn’t trying to develop the kind of player JK is becoming so crediting him with that development doesn’t resonate.

If we want to credit someone with JK’s development, start with JK. After that, I’d probably tip my cap to Draymond who seems to be the one who wanted JK on the floor (and ironically made room for him)

[floppymoose]

Too much JK. Grizzlies couldnt handle it.

[RUN-TJM]

Too much JK. Grizzlies couldnt handle it.

[Coxy]

He looked amazing today.