2024 JK Thread

[oaktownwarriors87]

I think Wiggins is making a case that running offense through him is actually better than running offense through JK. But they run similar actions for the both of them.

The one guy who loves wiggins running the offense is Moody. Wiggins must have assisted on half of moodys 3 pt shots the last 4 games.

They run some similar things, but also alot that's not the same.

The early offense with wiggins with the ball screen or inverted screen creates looks for himself and others, especially on kick outs.. Jk does the same action, but it's to play to his strength of getting to the rim or get fouled. It's the secondary action that differentiates them. Jk is more comfortable in that dunkers spot because hes probably our best finisher. Wiggins is better at screens, pin downs, moving off ball and spacing the floor.

But you also don't want to run too much of the offense through either guy.

Yea Wiggins has more to his game, but JK is still young. JK is a better finisher.

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

[CDM_Stats]

The one guy who loves wiggins running the offense is Moody. Wiggins must have assisted on half of moodys 3 pt shots the last 4 games.

They run some similar things, but also alot that's not the same.

The early offense with wiggins with the ball screen or inverted screen creates looks for himself and others, especially on kick outs.. Jk does the same action, but it's to play to his strength of getting to the rim or get fouled. It's the secondary action that differentiates them. Jk is more comfortable in that dunkers spot because hes probably our best finisher. Wiggins is better at screens, pin downs, moving off ball and spacing the floor.

But you also don't want to run too much of the offense through either guy.

Yea Wiggins has more to his game, but JK is still young. JK is a better finisher.

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

[vvoland]

Yea Wiggins has more to his game, but JK is still young. JK is a better finisher.

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

What's COD?

[CDM_Stats]

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

What's COD?

change of direction

[michaelm]

Yea Wiggins has more to his game, but JK is still young. JK is a better finisher.

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

Good Wiggins is an excellent player, but does not always turn up although personal circumstances and injuries may have significantly contributed to his latest periods of not being good Wiggins.

Who would have thought another player would be considered to have a speed and athleticism advantage over “Maple Jordan” while he is still in his physical prime though ?.

[wco81]

They might have been better drafting Whitmore and then letting JK walk after this season.

Whitmore may not have the absolute athleticism of JK but he's more skilled ball handler and looks to have a better stroke from the outside, at least the form is there. Not sure how well he shoots it but he's definitely been instant offense type of guy in the latter part of the season.

But they'd have reset the salary cap by a couple of years, with a guy on a #19 pick salary than a #7 pick salary with JK about to hit RFA soon.

Podz has had a very good rookie year, good overall floor game but he doesn't seem to be the bucket getter that Whitmore is already.

Maybe he will show more, his main strength in the draft cited was his shooting/scoring.

[Crazy-Canuck]

They might have been better drafting Whitmore and then letting JK walk after this season.

Whitmore may not have the absolute athleticism of JK but he's more skilled ball handler and looks to have a better stroke from the outside, at least the form is there. Not sure how well he shoots it but he's definitely been instant offense type of guy in the latter part of the season.

But they'd have reset the salary cap by a couple of years, with a guy on a #19 pick salary than a #7 pick salary with JK about to hit RFA soon.

Podz has had a very good rookie year, good overall floor game but he doesn't seem to be the bucket getter that Whitmore is already.

Maybe he will show more, his main strength in the draft cited was his shooting/scoring.

In no universe does JK just walk, now you are just talking nonsense.

[wco81]

They might have been better drafting Whitmore and then letting JK walk after this season.

Whitmore may not have the absolute athleticism of JK but he's more skilled ball handler and looks to have a better stroke from the outside, at least the form is there. Not sure how well he shoots it but he's definitely been instant offense type of guy in the latter part of the season.

But they'd have reset the salary cap by a couple of years, with a guy on a #19 pick salary than a #7 pick salary with JK about to hit RFA soon.

Podz has had a very good rookie year, good overall floor game but he doesn't seem to be the bucket getter that Whitmore is already.

Maybe he will show more, his main strength in the draft cited was his shooting/scoring.

In no universe does JK just walk, now you are just talking nonsense.

No you trade him for assets instead of giving a big extension.

OTOH, if Warriors drafted Whitmore and he had been producing, maybe JK doesn't even get a chance to show his improvement.

[billinder33]

They might have been better drafting Whitmore and then letting JK walk after this season.

Whitmore may not have the absolute athleticism of JK but he's more skilled ball handler and looks to have a better stroke from the outside, at least the form is there. Not sure how well he shoots it but he's definitely been instant offense type of guy in the latter part of the season.

But they'd have reset the salary cap by a couple of years, with a guy on a #19 pick salary than a #7 pick salary with JK about to hit RFA soon.

Podz has had a very good rookie year, good overall floor game but he doesn't seem to be the bucket getter that Whitmore is already.

Maybe he will show more, his main strength in the draft cited was his shooting/scoring.

Podz is going to be Curry's replacement. Different guy, sure. But a guy who you can trust with the ball and to run an offense. Unselfish, does a lot of different things well, works within the system. Already... a rookie who went to a 3rd tier college program.

I loves me some JK, way more than a lot of other people on this board. But if I had to choose between the two, based on current information, I'm taking Podz.

[svart]

They might have been better drafting Whitmore and then letting JK walk after this season.

Whitmore may not have the absolute athleticism of JK but he's more skilled ball handler and looks to have a better stroke from the outside, at least the form is there. Not sure how well he shoots it but he's definitely been instant offense type of guy in the latter part of the season.

But they'd have reset the salary cap by a couple of years, with a guy on a #19 pick salary than a #7 pick salary with JK about to hit RFA soon.

Podz has had a very good rookie year, good overall floor game but he doesn't seem to be the bucket getter that Whitmore is already.

Maybe he will show more, his main strength in the draft cited was his shooting/scoring.

In no universe does JK just walk, now you are just talking nonsense.

No you trade him for assets instead of giving a big extension.

OTOH, if Warriors drafted Whitmore and he had been producing, maybe JK doesn't even get a chance to show his improvement.

or maybe he would have been buried on the bench. with steve you never know

[Onus]

Yea Wiggins has more to his game, but JK is still young. JK is a better finisher.

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

His burst is so good, but he still hasn't learned how to beat someone when they're up close to him. When he has a head of steam it's over but if you're up close he still has trouble getting around people

[billinder33]

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

His burst is so good, but he still hasn't learned how to beat someone when they're up close to him. When he has a head of steam it's over but if you're up close he still has trouble getting around people

He hasn't learned the subtle body fakes, ball shows, and jukes that get an opponent off balance for a split second. He also suffers from the young player syndrome of these long-motioned, swooping layups that get stuffed at the rim on a regular basis in the NBA. It's a big part of why his Q4 and half-court efficiency isn't what it should be.

I'm not frustrated by him, in the fact that he has to learn these lessons, I'm more frustrated that the staff sat him on ice the past 2.5 years and he's just learning these things now. That we're at the end of season 3 and there's still too much cloudiness regarding what the final product will look like. That lots of opportunity last year was wasted on guys who didn't produce much and who don't have NBA futures.

[Crazy-Canuck]

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

His burst is so good, but he still hasn't learned how to beat someone when they're up close to him. When he has a head of steam it's over but if you're up close he still has trouble getting around people

He's got bad footwork. He's a north south guy with straight up burst. He has no change of direction and can't contort his body which is why he's a bad screen navigator. I think it's all related to footwork.

[Onus]

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

His burst is so good, but he still hasn't learned how to beat someone when they're up close to him. When he has a head of steam it's over but if you're up close he still has trouble getting around people

He's got bad footwork. He's a north south guy with straight up burst. He has no change of direction and can't contort his body which is why he's a bad screen navigator. I think it's all related to footwork.

I'm not sure that's really learned though. Lebron, Giannis, Zion they're pretty similar and don't really change directions well even with ample time in the league. They all have to back out to half court and get a running start and mostly win with strength.

[CDM_Stats]

His burst is so good, but he still hasn't learned how to beat someone when they're up close to him. When he has a head of steam it's over but if you're up close he still has trouble getting around people

He's got bad footwork. He's a north south guy with straight up burst. He has no change of direction and can't contort his body which is why he's a bad screen navigator. I think it's all related to footwork.

I'm not sure that's really learned though. Lebron, Giannis, Zion they're pretty similar and don't really change directions well even with ample time in the league. They all have to back out to half court and get a running start and mostly win with strength.

2 of the 3 guys you mentioned are in the upper echelon of agility for their respective position (PF). LeBron is dropping like a stone though, but Giannis would be near the top for SFs if you put him in. Should be noted that those kind of tracking numbers don't get separated by offense/defense, its all one big pot

Also doesnt hurt that they are both plus handlers

[Onus]

He's got bad footwork. He's a north south guy with straight up burst. He has no change of direction and can't contort his body which is why he's a bad screen navigator. I think it's all related to footwork.

I'm not sure that's really learned though. Lebron, Giannis, Zion they're pretty similar and don't really change directions well even with ample time in the league. They all have to back out to half court and get a running start and mostly win with strength.

2 of the 3 guys you mentioned are in the upper echelon of agility for their respective position (PF). LeBron is dropping like a stone though, but Giannis would be near the top for SFs if you put him in. Should be noted that those kind of tracking numbers don't get separated by offense/defense, its all one big pot

Also doesnt hurt that they are both plus handlers

How do you track agility?

These guys are obviously elite athletes, but they aren't getting by people with handles per say. They're getting downhill, lowering a shoulder and bumping people off. I mean they can do a cross over, and Giannis has a nasty euro step, but for the most part they attack bodies.

[CDM_Stats]

I'm not sure that's really learned though. Lebron, Giannis, Zion they're pretty similar and don't really change directions well even with ample time in the league. They all have to back out to half court and get a running start and mostly win with strength.

2 of the 3 guys you mentioned are in the upper echelon of agility for their respective position (PF). LeBron is dropping like a stone though, but Giannis would be near the top for SFs if you put him in. Should be noted that those kind of tracking numbers don't get separated by offense/defense, its all one big pot

Also doesnt hurt that they are both plus handlers

How do you track agility?

These guys are obviously elite athletes, but they aren't getting by people with handles per say. They're getting downhill, lowering a shoulder and bumping people off. I mean they can do a cross over, and Giannis has a nasty euro step, but for the most part they attack bodies.

Its tracked the same way any movement is, distance and time, after the event (the change of direction), relative to their top speed, and then regularized against the average for their position

And for PFs, they get by people with their handles more than most at their position. Now I do not know how they do handles metrics, but both LeBron and Giannis are top 4 at PF. I dont trust those kind of metrics as much though because thats awful subjective and they typically use things like unforced TOs, dribbles, contested dribbles, and things like that which leave a lot of margin for error

[Onus]

2 of the 3 guys you mentioned are in the upper echelon of agility for their respective position (PF). LeBron is dropping like a stone though, but Giannis would be near the top for SFs if you put him in. Should be noted that those kind of tracking numbers don't get separated by offense/defense, its all one big pot

Also doesnt hurt that they are both plus handlers

How do you track agility?

These guys are obviously elite athletes, but they aren't getting by people with handles per say. They're getting downhill, lowering a shoulder and bumping people off. I mean they can do a cross over, and Giannis has a nasty euro step, but for the most part they attack bodies.

Its tracked the same way any movement is, distance and time, after the event (the change of direction), relative to their top speed, and then regularized against the average for their position

And for PFs, they get by people with their handles more than most at their position. Now I do not know how they do handles metrics, but both LeBron and Giannis are top 4 at PF. I dont trust those kind of metrics as much though because thats awful subjective and they typically use things like unforced TOs, dribbles, contested dribbles, and things like that which leave a lot of margin for error

I mean I agree they handle the ball more than other pfs and don't really lose the ball comparatively to pfs. Also will amend that Zion does use a lot of fakes and hesitations to attack. I mean obviously these guys are able to attack off the dribble better than just about any other player let alone pfs, which makes them who they are. I'm just not sure they have to use wiggle or as much creativity to get their shots off because of their immense size differences.

JK has improved on being able to get downhill this year though.

[vvoland]

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

Can't teach speed.. in terms of skills, the above is probably right. But JK has a wider margin of error because of his straight line speed (at least in certain situations). Used to be that agility coaches were all the rage, and he could use one. Because if he can get his COD anywhere near the level of his straight line speed, he wont need a ton of skills to have a serious impact

His burst is so good, but he still hasn't learned how to beat someone when they're up close to him. When he has a head of steam it's over but if you're up close he still has trouble getting around people

I haven't seen that much. In fact, most teams play off him and then attack the dribble once he gets going. I think his biggest flaw, currently, is he can't shoot off the dribble unless it's a simple 1 dribble pull up. When he has to freestyle, he just doesn't have moves he can go to and his shots off multiple dribbles are dangerous for fans in the first few rows. Considering his improvement at getting to the line, converting FTs and general ball handling, I think that's what he comes back with next year - a more consistent 3 and a few multiple dribble pull ups.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

The one guy who loves wiggins running the offense is Moody. Wiggins must have assisted on half of moodys 3 pt shots the last 4 games.

They run some similar things, but also alot that's not the same.

The early offense with wiggins with the ball screen or inverted screen creates looks for himself and others, especially on kick outs.. Jk does the same action, but it's to play to his strength of getting to the rim or get fouled. It's the secondary action that differentiates them. Jk is more comfortable in that dunkers spot because hes probably our best finisher. Wiggins is better at screens, pin downs, moving off ball and spacing the floor.

But you also don't want to run too much of the offense through either guy.

Yea Wiggins has more to his game, but JK is still young. JK is a better finisher.

JK is a better finisher, but Wiggins is better at everything else.

I don’t think Wiggins or Kuminga are good enough passers to use them as Draymond’s assistant ball handler like we use Podz and used to use Iguodala.

If I need high volume scoring like on a night when Curry and Klay are missing shots then I think you can force extra offense through Kuminga without a big drop in efficiency. I think forcing extra offence through Wiggins will come with a bigger drop in efficiency.

As a low volume scorer who takes nothing that is not there and does nothing wrong, makes decient decisions and passes slightly better than Kuminga I prefer Wiggins. But if I want somebody to score 25 points I prefer Kuminga.