How does Lacob get out of luxury tax ASAP?

[killmongrel]

Follow up question is if they get under for 24/25. And go over during 25/26 would it be considered repeater or do we start fresh with going over the tax?

The repeater tax is triggered when a team is a taxpayer in the previous 3 out of 4 seasons, not including the just completed season. So, since they've been over the tax for 3 years, one year under won't do it. They need to be under for the next two years to avoid it the following year. This will be important because with the new CBA, 25-26 is when there is a big jump in repeater tax rates.

I'm so convinced now that getting out of the luxury tax is Lacob's and the FO's plan this off season. They're gonna pray that Kuminga continues to impress so that they can try to push Kuminga propaganda as much as possible to justify not making a big move this summer.

Lacob/FO: "We truly believe Kuminga is the second option that Steph needs to win a championship!"

CP3 walks. Klay walks. Maybe they keep Looney. And if there really is some player available that they really love, maybe they use whatever remaining salaries there are on the team outside of Steph and maybe Draymond. Otherwise, they're all about getting getting out of the luxury tax and avoiding the repeater tax in a few years.

Steph/Podz
Wiggins/GP2
Moody
Kuminga/Santos
Draymond/Looney/TJD

And whoever they can sign using the NTPMLE, Bi-Annual, and Vet Minimums.

[Jerry Maine]

Follow up question is if they get under for 24/25. And go over during 25/26 would it be considered repeater or do we start fresh with going over the tax?

The repeater tax is triggered when a team is a taxpayer in the previous 3 out of 4 seasons, not including the just completed season. So, since they've been over the tax for 3 years, one year under won't do it. They need to be under for the next two years to avoid it the following year. This will be important because with the new CBA, 25-26 is when there is a big jump in repeater tax rates.

I'm so convinced now that getting out of the luxury tax is Lacob's and the FO's plan this off season. They're gonna pray that Kuminga continues to impress so that they can try to push Kuminga propaganda as much as possible to justify not making a big move this summer.

Lacob/FO: "We truly believe Kuminga is the second option that Steph needs to win a championship!"

CP3 walks. Klay walks. Maybe they keep Looney. And if there really is some player available that they really love, maybe they use whatever remaining salaries there are on the team outside of Steph and maybe Draymond. Otherwise, they're all about getting getting out of the luxury tax and avoiding the repeater tax in a few years.

Steph/Podz
Wiggins/GP2
Moody
Kuminga/Santos
Draymond/Looney/TJD

And whoever they can sign using the NTPMLE, Bi-Annual, and Vet Minimums.

It would hardly be a disaster, and if they add another decent big for the ntpmle we can drop Green back to the 4 and start the freshly signed big, TJD or Loon instead of Klay. Wiggs can play the 2 on offence while Kuminga stays poa on defence, and we move away from midget ball. A bench with Podz, GP2, Moody, and a couple of serviceable vets along with 3rd stringers like Gui, Lester, Garuba is decent enough.

They can also use CP3's contract to facilitate an s&t at the right amount to position themselves just under the repeater tax for ie. a decent scorer or 3&D guy at a similar amount to the ntpmle.

I think this is how they'll go unless something they really like becomes available in the coming days. I can't see them offering Klay anything close to what they did last offseason given his play this season, and a strong likelihood he walks but would be fine with him staying on as a bench scorer at ie. $8m x 2 so he could ride out with the guys he rode in with, even if it ate into some of the dollars available for reinforcements.

[CDM_Stats]

who cares.. **** his money

the cap situation should only matter to fans re: the 2nd apron.. we wont have enough to be a player in free agency and we dont have enough other assets for people to walk w/o retaining the contract space

A big reason why a potential Klay trade would be ideal.. if hes not dealt, the chance he's retained next year and beyond goes up exponentially as the team has had no issue giving out large contracts simply to retain the contract slot

[Old Head]

Post#13 » by marthafokker » Yesterday 11:54 pm
I would let Klay and CP3 walk just so Moody and Podz get playing time. And get rid of Kerr too just so kids don't get benched for vets.
And use the MLE for a big for god's sake.

Bingo!!! Exactly my thoughts.
Try to get & develop a big
Let's let them play mostly more in their natural positions
Dray mostly 4 except for a closing minutes & short spurts at 5
Kuminga at 3, except for spurts at 4
I'm good with developing Podz more at 1 for the future -kid has shown the knack, however needs more time & development - something Kerr isn't good at
Moody at the 2 most of the time
Wiggs at the 3 & occasional 2 - he can d up 1-4

[killmongrel]

The repeater tax is triggered when a team is a taxpayer in the previous 3 out of 4 seasons, not including the just completed season. So, since they've been over the tax for 3 years, one year under won't do it. They need to be under for the next two years to avoid it the following year. This will be important because with the new CBA, 25-26 is when there is a big jump in repeater tax rates.

I'm so convinced now that getting out of the luxury tax is Lacob's and the FO's plan this off season. They're gonna pray that Kuminga continues to impress so that they can try to push Kuminga propaganda as much as possible to justify not making a big move this summer.

Lacob/FO: "We truly believe Kuminga is the second option that Steph needs to win a championship!"

CP3 walks. Klay walks. Maybe they keep Looney. And if there really is some player available that they really love, maybe they use whatever remaining salaries there are on the team outside of Steph and maybe Draymond. Otherwise, they're all about getting getting out of the luxury tax and avoiding the repeater tax in a few years.

Steph/Podz
Wiggins/GP2
Moody
Kuminga/Santos
Draymond/Looney/TJD

And whoever they can sign using the NTPMLE, Bi-Annual, and Vet Minimums.

It would hardly be a disaster

That has yet to be seen.

Like I said, they better pray Kuminga continues to look good this season.

If he does, then they can sell the hopium to the fanbase. The others better be clicking as well.

[Jerry Maine]

My definition of disaster would be trading our future picks and or youth ie. Kuminga along with Klay or CP3 for a high salary vet or two to put alongside a 37 year old Steph and 35 year old Green and it still not pushing us back into contention. Don't see much on the market worth losing our flexibility for, yet alone paying tax.

We're in a spot where getting out from the repeater tax is easily achieved, likely only costing us Klay and CP3 this offseason, possibly not even if they're real about their value going forward. And we retain our picks alongside young guys Kuminga, Podz, Moody, TJD who continue to develop.

Who are equal or better players than current versions of Klay and CP3 anyhow.

Steph / Podz /
Wiggs / GP2 /
Kuminga / Moody
Green / Gui
TJD / Loon

That's about $142m next season, and we can nudge up near the 1st apron ($172m) without going over by signing a few ring chasing vets to the min ($2m cap hit each) plus someone on the tpmle ($5m) and a combination ie. signing Klay to an appropriate deal and/or flipping Paul with limited drafted capital this offseason (up to $20m combined) for another quality rotation player.

You can also tell Klay and CP3 they can stay for $20m combined on one year deals, they won't likely get that or more elsewhere, and still stay under the apron while still using the tpmle and adding 2 or 3 guys on vet min.

That's my limited understanding of our cap situation, but I'm sure there are others who understand it better so correct me if I'm wrong

[xdrta+]

My definition of disaster would be trading our future picks and or youth ie. Kuminga along with Klay or CP3 for a high salary vet or two to put alongside a 37 year old Steph and 35 year old Green and it still not pushing us back into contention. Don't see much on the market worth losing our flexibility for, yet alone paying tax.

We're in a spot where getting out from the repeater tax is easily achieved, likely only costing us Klay and CP3 this offseason, possibly not even if they're real about their value going forward. And we retain our picks alongside young guys Kuminga, Podz, Moody, TJD who continue to develop.

Who are equal or better players than current versions of Klay and CP3 anyhow.

Steph / Podz /
Wiggs / GP2 /
Kuminga / Moody
Green / Gui
TJD / Loon

That's about $142m next season, and we can nudge up near the 1st apron ($172m) without going over by signing a few ring chasing vets to the min ($2m cap hit each) plus someone on the tpmle ($5m) and a combination ie. signing Klay to an appropriate deal and/or flipping Paul with limited drafted capital this offseason (up to $20m combined) for another quality rotation player.

You can also tell Klay and CP3 they can stay for $20m combined on one year deals, they won't likely get that or more elsewhere, and still stay under the apron while still using the tpmle and adding 2 or 3 guys on vet min.

That's my limited understanding of our cap situation, but I'm sure there are others who understand it better so correct me if I'm wrong

The only flaw I see is that if your goal is to avoid the repeater tax going forward, you need to stay under the tax line, not the First Apron. The tax line is $7M less than the Apron line.

[killmongrel]

My definition of disaster would be trading our future picks and or youth ie. Kuminga along with Klay or CP3 for a high salary vet or two to put alongside a 37 year old Steph and 35 year old Green and it still not pushing us back into contention. Don't see much on the market worth losing our flexibility for, yet alone paying tax.

We're in a spot where getting out from the repeater tax is easily achieved, likely only costing us Klay and CP3 this offseason, possibly not even if they're real about their value going forward. And we retain our picks alongside young guys Kuminga, Podz, Moody, TJD who continue to develop.

Who are equal or better players than current versions of Klay and CP3 anyhow.

Steph / Podz /
Wiggs / GP2 /
Kuminga / Moody
Green / Gui
TJD / Loon

That's about $142m next season, and we can nudge up near the 1st apron ($172m) without going over by signing a few ring chasing vets to the min ($2m cap hit each) plus someone on the tpmle ($5m) and a combination ie. signing Klay to an appropriate deal and/or flipping Paul with limited drafted capital this offseason (up to $20m combined) for another quality rotation player.

You can also tell Klay and CP3 they can stay for $20m combined on one year deals, they won't likely get that or more elsewhere, and still stay under the apron while still using the tpmle and adding 2 or 3 guys on vet min.

That's my limited understanding of our cap situation, but I'm sure there are others who understand it better so correct me if I'm wrong

I wouldn't be about trading our youth like Kuminga for an old vet like, say, Jimmy Butler or Siakam. But I would trade our youth, including Kuminga for somebody like Markannen if the price is right. Somebody that can be a part of a new core going forward.

Also, I'm fine with ownership aiming to go under the luxury tax as long as they don't do so while turning down a chance of making a move that could have helped the team compete significantly. For example, you can't just make the team trade for something when there's nothing worth trading for.

With that said, if the organization truly believes Kuminga is the guy going foward. Great. They better pray Kuminga continues playing well. But they'll still have to figure out how to put together a team around Steph, Draymond, and Kuminga that looks like it has a chance to compete.

[Jerry Maine]

My definition of disaster would be trading our future picks and or youth ie. Kuminga along with Klay or CP3 for a high salary vet or two to put alongside a 37 year old Steph and 35 year old Green and it still not pushing us back into contention. Don't see much on the market worth losing our flexibility for, yet alone paying tax.

We're in a spot where getting out from the repeater tax is easily achieved, likely only costing us Klay and CP3 this offseason, possibly not even if they're real about their value going forward. And we retain our picks alongside young guys Kuminga, Podz, Moody, TJD who continue to develop.

Who are equal or better players than current versions of Klay and CP3 anyhow.

Steph / Podz /
Wiggs / GP2 /
Kuminga / Moody
Green / Gui
TJD / Loon

That's about $142m next season, and we can nudge up near the 1st apron ($172m) without going over by signing a few ring chasing vets to the min ($2m cap hit each) plus someone on the tpmle ($5m) and a combination ie. signing Klay to an appropriate deal and/or flipping Paul with limited drafted capital this offseason (up to $20m combined) for another quality rotation player.

You can also tell Klay and CP3 they can stay for $20m combined on one year deals, they won't likely get that or more elsewhere, and still stay under the apron while still using the tpmle and adding 2 or 3 guys on vet min.

That's my limited understanding of our cap situation, but I'm sure there are others who understand it better so correct me if I'm wrong

I wouldn't be about trading our youth like Kuminga for an old vet like, say, Jimmy Butler or Siakam. But I would trade our youth, including Kuminga for somebody like Markannen if the price is right. Somebody that can be a part of a new core going forward.

Also, I'm fine with ownership aiming to go under the luxury tax as long as they don't do so while turning down a chance of making a move that could have helped the team compete significantly. For example, you can't just make the team trade for something when there's nothing worth trading for.

With that said, if the organization truly believes Kuminga is the guy going foward. Great. They better pray Kuminga continues playing well. But they'll still have to figure out how to put together a team around Steph, Draymond, and Kuminga that looks like it has a chance to compete.

Fully agree

The issue with Markannen is likely Ainge will want a king's ransom. Butler is 34, would be great if you don't have to empty the canister but can't see Miami doing it. Not much out there for Klay or CP3 in reality without bankrupting the future, and no point doing so unless it genuinely bumps is back into contention, better off seeing if we can build something ourselves

[gswhoops]

Right now the projected 24-25 cap is $141M and the tax line is $171M. If the Warriors get no salary back for Klay or CP, and don't pick up Looney's guarantee, but do pick up Santos's $1.8M, as it stands now, they will have $139M guaranteed salaries for 9 players. That leaves $32M below tax to sign 5 players and stay below tax. As soon as they take back salary for Klay and/or CP that $32M disappears quickly.

Yup. You can clear a little more space by stretch-waiving Loon, which lowers his cap hit to $1.5M.

Steph $55,761,216
Wiggins $26,276,786
Draymond $24,107,143
GP2 $9,130,000 (player option, have to assume he opts in)
Kuminga $7,636,307
Moody $5,803,269
Podz $3,519,960
TJD $1,891,857
Gui $1,891,857
Looney $1,500,000 (partial guarantee post-stretch waiver)

= $137,518,395

So that puts us ~$3.5 million below the cap and ~$33.8M below the tax line with 9 players under contract.

Seems like they could offer Klay a reasonable deal, spend the MLE on an upgrade at the 5, and still fill out the roster without breaking the tax line.

[Onus]

Right now the projected 24-25 cap is $141M and the tax line is $171M. If the Warriors get no salary back for Klay or CP, and don't pick up Looney's guarantee, but do pick up Santos's $1.8M, as it stands now, they will have $139M guaranteed salaries for 9 players. That leaves $32M below tax to sign 5 players and stay below tax. As soon as they take back salary for Klay and/or CP that $32M disappears quickly.

Yup. You can clear a little more space by stretch-waiving Loon, which lowers his cap hit to $1.5M.

Steph $55,761,216
Wiggins $26,276,786
Draymond $24,107,143
GP2 $9,130,000 (player option, have to assume he opts in)
Kuminga $7,636,307
Moody $5,803,269
Podz $3,519,960
TJD $1,891,857
Gui $1,891,857
Looney $1,500,000 (partial guarantee post-stretch waiver)

= $137,518,395

So that puts us ~$3.5 million below the cap and ~$33.8M below the tax line with 9 players under contract.

Seems like they could offer Klay a reasonable deal, spend the MLE on an upgrade at the 5, and still fill out the roster without breaking the tax line.

And we can't really sign anyone long term since JK is due for a large extension which will eat most of that 33.8M, not to mention Moody's extension as well.

[gswhoops]

Right now the projected 24-25 cap is $141M and the tax line is $171M. If the Warriors get no salary back for Klay or CP, and don't pick up Looney's guarantee, but do pick up Santos's $1.8M, as it stands now, they will have $139M guaranteed salaries for 9 players. That leaves $32M below tax to sign 5 players and stay below tax. As soon as they take back salary for Klay and/or CP that $32M disappears quickly.

Yup. You can clear a little more space by stretch-waiving Loon, which lowers his cap hit to $1.5M.

Steph $55,761,216
Wiggins $26,276,786
Draymond $24,107,143
GP2 $9,130,000 (player option, have to assume he opts in)
Kuminga $7,636,307
Moody $5,803,269
Podz $3,519,960
TJD $1,891,857
Gui $1,891,857
Looney $1,500,000 (partial guarantee post-stretch waiver)

= $137,518,395

So that puts us ~$3.5 million below the cap and ~$33.8M below the tax line with 9 players under contract.

Seems like they could offer Klay a reasonable deal, spend the MLE on an upgrade at the 5, and still fill out the roster without breaking the tax line.

And we can't really sign anyone long term since JK is due for a large extension which will eat most of that 33.8M, not to mention Moody's extension as well.

As long as we don't wildly overpay Klay, we ought to be fine. We're sitting at $66M under the tax line right now for 25-26.

[gswhoops]

Follow up question is if they get under for 24/25. And go over during 25/26 would it be considered repeater or do we start fresh with going over the tax?

The repeater tax is triggered when a team is a taxpayer in the previous 3 out of 4 seasons, not including the just completed season. So, since they've been over the tax for 3 years, one year under won't do it. They need to be under for the next two years to avoid it the following year. This will be important because with the new CBA, 25-26 is when there is a big jump in repeater tax rates.

Yeah "repeater" is kind of lazy shorthand here, because if you're starting from a clean slate you can be in the tax for 2 years without paying "repeater" tax. You wouldn't start paying the "repeater" tax until year 3 of being a taxpayer.