What do you think this organization does in the summer.

[DevinVassell]

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Curry is not only an amazing basketball player, but remarkably smart. He will one day be quite a politician if he wants to be. He never says here that he wouldn't play just as hard without Klay. He just says that he "can never see himself" not playing with Klay. Everybody is saying all the right things so that Klay won't hate them when he leaves. And he really does need to go. Klay wants to play major minutes somewhere, and I fear that the Dubs will cave, sign him again, for whatever number, and then Kerr will play him 30 minutes a night. Deep down, Curry knows that if Klay comes back, his chances of winning another chip just went down with it.

Hopefully MDJ has some major tricks up his sleeve for this summer. If the new roster doesn't include Klay or CP3, that's not only OK, but preferable. If Wiggins did enough at the end of the year to bring his trade value back up, that's fine too. The roster needs a major overhaul. You don't dramatically improve a 10th place finish by making some minor tweaks. Hopefully MDJ's recent comments are all gamesmanship.

Let's hope so.

What happens with Klay this offseason will tell us everything we need to know about MDJ going forward and whether he is just another f/o puppet... Let's see if he is actually his own man capable of making the hard (easy) decisions for the betterment of the franchise.

He was pretty unceremoniously ridiculed as a player here so hopefully that has hardened him and made him an uncompromising bastard!

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Kuminga, Moody, Trayce, Podz, Wiggins and Looney would be a nice supporting cast to 2016 Steph Klay Dray and the team would be a contender. But we have old Steph Klay Dray not 2016 Steph Klay Dray.

Kuminga, Moody, Trayce, Podz, Wiggins and Looney Plus the top 5 picks in this weak 2024 draft is not a 2028 championship contender.

[RUN-TJM]

Kuminga, Moody, Trayce, Podz, Wiggins and Looney would be a nice supporting cast to 2016 Steph Klay Dray and the team would be a contender. But we have old Steph Klay Dray not 2016 Steph Klay Dray.

Kuminga, Moody, Trayce, Podz, Wiggins and Looney Plus the top 5 picks in this weak 2024 draft is not a 2028 championship contender.

Can we pry Dys Daniels out of the Pels hands? 6-8 225 and can guard 1 through 4. 3 point shoot is improving and can get to the basket. Can play point or off ball.

He’s had 2 seasons learning the trade but is behind a few at the Pels. I think he will show out at the Olympics.

[TB]

How about:

Wiggins, 2026 1st (probably another?) for Deni, Shamet

Dray, 2028 1st (maybe another?) for Dejounte Murray

Let CP3 and Klay walk

Goga for MLE, something like 2/22

Maybe could talk Batum or Javonte or Kris Dunn into a vet min (I'll use the best case of Batum as an example)

Steph / Podz / Shamet
Murray / GP2 / Quinones
Kuminga / Moody / Santos
Deni / Batum / Garuba
Goga / Trayce / Loon

obviously this unloads a lot of picks without getting a superstar back... but I dont think we'd need picks/rookies for a while with this core. Anyways, one of a million unlikely scenarios I'll post before we inevitably run it back with the same squad + Kyle Lowry and Thad Young replacing CP3/Dario...

[CDM_Stats]

Steph / Podz / Shamet
Murray / GP2 / Quinones
Kuminga / Moody / Santos
Deni / Batum / Garuba
Goga / Trayce / Loon

obviously this unloads a lot of picks without getting a superstar back... but I dont think we'd need picks/rookies for a while with this core. Anyways, one of a million unlikely scenarios I'll post before we inevitably run it back with the same squad + Kyle Lowry and Thad Young replacing CP3/Dario...

Thats a lot of uncertainty, especially in the frontcourt. And that team defense will need to be overhauled. We can still try and hide Curry, and if it was a young roster it'd be ideal, but would still depend a ton on Steph.

I think if we're going for it, then Dray has to stay. Wiggins probably as well, because theres almost no way you're getting on-court value back that's equitable. So have to look for situations where the players' trade value < on-court value. To me, thats Kuminga, and an expiring CP3. Not sure how the league values Podz, TJD or Moody but I'd wager those values are much closer to reality than the others. So my entire offseason plan would be CP3/Kuminga/draft considerations to ATL for Murray and hope that its enough. If it isnt, then start selling guys who will not be helpful or increase their trade value - specifically Wiggins, Looney, GP2

[Onus]

How about:

Wiggins, 2026 1st (probably another?) for Deni, Shamet

Dray, 2028 1st (maybe another?) for Dejounte Murray

Let CP3 and Klay walk

Goga for MLE, something like 2/22

Maybe could talk Batum or Javonte or Kris Dunn into a vet min (I'll use the best case of Batum as an example)

Steph / Podz / Shamet
Murray / GP2 / Quinones
Kuminga / Moody / Santos
Deni / Batum / Garuba
Goga / Trayce / Loon

obviously this unloads a lot of picks without getting a superstar back... but I dont think we'd need picks/rookies for a while with this core. Anyways, one of a million unlikely scenarios I'll post before we inevitably run it back with the same squad + Kyle Lowry and Thad Young replacing CP3/Dario...

I think Batum said this was his last year unfortunately. I know we tried to sign him before and he got roped into staying with the Clippers instead ... smh

[TB]

Steph / Podz / Shamet
Murray / GP2 / Quinones
Kuminga / Moody / Santos
Deni / Batum / Garuba
Goga / Trayce / Loon

obviously this unloads a lot of picks without getting a superstar back... but I dont think we'd need picks/rookies for a while with this core. Anyways, one of a million unlikely scenarios I'll post before we inevitably run it back with the same squad + Kyle Lowry and Thad Young replacing CP3/Dario...

Thats a lot of uncertainty, especially in the frontcourt. And that team defense will need to be overhauled. We can still try and hide Curry, and if it was a young roster it'd be ideal, but would still depend a ton on Steph.

I think if we're going for it, then Dray has to stay. Wiggins probably as well, because theres almost no way you're getting on-court value back that's equitable. So have to look for situations where the players' trade value < on-court value. To me, thats Kuminga, and an expiring CP3. Not sure how the league values Podz, TJD or Moody but I'd wager those values are much closer to reality than the others. So my entire offseason plan would be CP3/Kuminga/draft considerations to ATL for Murray and hope that its enough. If it isnt, then start selling guys who will not be helpful or increase their trade value - specifically Wiggins, Looney, GP2

If Atlanta is interested in Kuminga you could definitely go that route and still stay under the 1st apron while keeping Klay at 12m.... or even getting out of the tax if you let Klay walk. And even still have MLE for someone like Goga if you restructure GP2 to 6m over 2 years and sadly let Loon go since his entire contract isn't guaranteed.

[CDM_Stats]

Steph / Podz / Shamet
Murray / GP2 / Quinones
Kuminga / Moody / Santos
Deni / Batum / Garuba
Goga / Trayce / Loon

obviously this unloads a lot of picks without getting a superstar back... but I dont think we'd need picks/rookies for a while with this core. Anyways, one of a million unlikely scenarios I'll post before we inevitably run it back with the same squad + Kyle Lowry and Thad Young replacing CP3/Dario...

Thats a lot of uncertainty, especially in the frontcourt. And that team defense will need to be overhauled. We can still try and hide Curry, and if it was a young roster it'd be ideal, but would still depend a ton on Steph.

I think if we're going for it, then Dray has to stay. Wiggins probably as well, because theres almost no way you're getting on-court value back that's equitable. So have to look for situations where the players' trade value < on-court value. To me, thats Kuminga, and an expiring CP3. Not sure how the league values Podz, TJD or Moody but I'd wager those values are much closer to reality than the others. So my entire offseason plan would be CP3/Kuminga/draft considerations to ATL for Murray and hope that its enough. If it isnt, then start selling guys who will not be helpful or increase their trade value - specifically Wiggins, Looney, GP2

If Atlanta is interested in Kuminga you could definitely go that route and still stay under the 1st apron while keeping Klay at 12m.... or even getting out of the tax if you let Klay walk. And even still have MLE for someone like Goga if you restructure GP2 to 6m over 2 years and sadly let Loon go since his entire contract isn't guaranteed.

I think Looney effectively has to go. MLE-ish money for a guy who's not getting the starting job back, as a big body C. If they bring him back, its a bit ominous to me

But yeah I think you hit on the biggest issue with my idea. IF Atlanta wants Kuminga. Not sure they would, with Jalen Johnson occupying the same space. They'd have to be willing to play them together.. that said, a system where Trae is dominating the ball, they have capable shooters at the guard and forward spots.. thats about as good as it can get for Kuminga. That said, Capela/Okongwo inside creates a big problem, even if they spam PnRs. I think the window was missed on this one, but its the only thing I'm holding onto re: actual competing next year, and even that is flimsy as hell

Also I'd definitely be in favor of letting Klay walk and signing the Goga. Unless the team suddenly is interested in giving Garuba a shot, but they'd have to be very confident in their offense to do that, and I think they are clearly not at this point

[RUN-TJM]

Kuminga’s status with ownership might be a red herring but I think it’s more likely than not, that ownership want to keep him.

I also think Atlanta couldn’t be so blind as to not notice how well they played with Young out, so the Murray will either cost a lot more or won’t be available.

If we can match up salaries, maybe using Wiggins and draft considerations for a player still on their rookie deal that might need more opportunity (the irony of that statement isn’t lost on me) but is a better positional fit for us. Or someone like Deni who signed a relatively modest first extension.

[vvoland]

Thats a lot of uncertainty, especially in the frontcourt. And that team defense will need to be overhauled. We can still try and hide Curry, and if it was a young roster it'd be ideal, but would still depend a ton on Steph.

I think if we're going for it, then Dray has to stay. Wiggins probably as well, because theres almost no way you're getting on-court value back that's equitable. So have to look for situations where the players' trade value < on-court value. To me, thats Kuminga, and an expiring CP3. Not sure how the league values Podz, TJD or Moody but I'd wager those values are much closer to reality than the others. So my entire offseason plan would be CP3/Kuminga/draft considerations to ATL for Murray and hope that its enough. If it isnt, then start selling guys who will not be helpful or increase their trade value - specifically Wiggins, Looney, GP2

If Atlanta is interested in Kuminga you could definitely go that route and still stay under the 1st apron while keeping Klay at 12m.... or even getting out of the tax if you let Klay walk. And even still have MLE for someone like Goga if you restructure GP2 to 6m over 2 years and sadly let Loon go since his entire contract isn't guaranteed.

I think Looney effectively has to go. MLE-ish money for a guy who's not getting the starting job back, as a big body C. If they bring him back, its a bit ominous to me

But yeah I think you hit on the biggest issue with my idea. IF Atlanta wants Kuminga. Not sure they would, with Jalen Johnson occupying the same space. They'd have to be willing to play them together.. that said, a system where Trae is dominating the ball, they have capable shooters at the guard and forward spots.. thats about as good as it can get for Kuminga. That said, Capela/Okongwo inside creates a big problem, even if they spam PnRs. I think the window was missed on this one, but its the only thing I'm holding onto re: actual competing next year, and even that is flimsy as hell

Also I'd definitely be in favor of letting Klay walk and signing the Goga. Unless the team suddenly is interested in giving Garuba a shot, but they'd have to be very confident in their offense to do that, and I think they are clearly not at this point

With the team prioritizing shooting (kerr and mdj both said it a bunch in the exit interviews), even if you don't agree they should, who would you target to give this team more shooting depth? I think Kerr wants to simplify the offense, if you believe him, but he's still not going to go the traditional route with Curry and Dray next season. I happen to agree that they're really short on competent 3pt shooters and I don't expect moody, JK, wigs or podz to be threatening enough next year that teams will actually guard them with some urgency.

Assuming this team needs at least 1 more shooter IF klay stays and 2 more shooters if Klay leaves, who would you target? I've heard the DJM piece, I think we both would have wanted him at the deadline, especially if wigs was involved. Assuming we can't get him and he doesn't really solve the shooting problems, who are some shooters we can target this summer. Not FAs, I'd imagine, but more likely trade candidates. I'd probably sniff out Sac's attachment to Huerder or look at one of the bogdans (atl or NYK).

[CDM_Stats]

If Atlanta is interested in Kuminga you could definitely go that route and still stay under the 1st apron while keeping Klay at 12m.... or even getting out of the tax if you let Klay walk. And even still have MLE for someone like Goga if you restructure GP2 to 6m over 2 years and sadly let Loon go since his entire contract isn't guaranteed.

I think Looney effectively has to go. MLE-ish money for a guy who's not getting the starting job back, as a big body C. If they bring him back, its a bit ominous to me

But yeah I think you hit on the biggest issue with my idea. IF Atlanta wants Kuminga. Not sure they would, with Jalen Johnson occupying the same space. They'd have to be willing to play them together.. that said, a system where Trae is dominating the ball, they have capable shooters at the guard and forward spots.. thats about as good as it can get for Kuminga. That said, Capela/Okongwo inside creates a big problem, even if they spam PnRs. I think the window was missed on this one, but its the only thing I'm holding onto re: actual competing next year, and even that is flimsy as hell

Also I'd definitely be in favor of letting Klay walk and signing the Goga. Unless the team suddenly is interested in giving Garuba a shot, but they'd have to be very confident in their offense to do that, and I think they are clearly not at this point

With the team prioritizing shooting (kerr and mdj both said it a bunch in the exit interviews), even if you don't agree they should, who would you target to give this team more shooting depth? I think Kerr wants to simplify the offense, if you believe him, but he's still not going to go the traditional route with Curry and Dray next season. I happen to agree that they're really short on competent 3pt shooters and I don't expect moody, JK, wigs or podz to be threatening enough next year that teams will actually guard them with some urgency.

Assuming this team needs at least 1 more shooter IF klay stays and 2 more shooters if Klay leaves, who would you target? I've heard the DJM piece, I think we both would have wanted him at the deadline, especially if wigs was involved. Assuming we can't get him and he doesn't really solve the shooting problems, who are some shooters we can target this summer. Not FAs, I'd imagine, but more likely trade candidates. I'd probably sniff out Sac's attachment to Huerder or look at one of the bogdans (atl or NYK).

If we cant get DJM at a very specific price point, I do not care at all which direction we go, because its likely going to be a bad one. Just not a lot of good pathways available, and the ones that are... tend to be very unrealistic. Even that offer above, I think its wildly unrealistic. And the other good pathways start with knocking it all down, selling high on Kuminga, things like that.. probably unrealistic as well. So whatever happens, I'm resigned to the idea that its going to commit to a path I dont believe in, that its just going to delay the rebuild we most likely need to do, and its the price of admission for the 4 rings

At this point, I just want the team to rehab value and make shrewd moves w/said rehabbed value. Like OPJ, Wiggins, GP2.. things like that. Find value in people's trash, but instead of getting the most out of them on-court, get the most out of them at the trade deadline

[watch1958]

I think Looney effectively has to go. MLE-ish money for a guy who's not getting the starting job back, as a big body C. If they bring him back, its a bit ominous to me

But yeah I think you hit on the biggest issue with my idea. IF Atlanta wants Kuminga. Not sure they would, with Jalen Johnson occupying the same space. They'd have to be willing to play them together.. that said, a system where Trae is dominating the ball, they have capable shooters at the guard and forward spots.. thats about as good as it can get for Kuminga. That said, Capela/Okongwo inside creates a big problem, even if they spam PnRs. I think the window was missed on this one, but its the only thing I'm holding onto re: actual competing next year, and even that is flimsy as hell

Also I'd definitely be in favor of letting Klay walk and signing the Goga. Unless the team suddenly is interested in giving Garuba a shot, but they'd have to be very confident in their offense to do that, and I think they are clearly not at this point

With the team prioritizing shooting (kerr and mdj both said it a bunch in the exit interviews), even if you don't agree they should, who would you target to give this team more shooting depth? I think Kerr wants to simplify the offense, if you believe him, but he's still not going to go the traditional route with Curry and Dray next season. I happen to agree that they're really short on competent 3pt shooters and I don't expect moody, JK, wigs or podz to be threatening enough next year that teams will actually guard them with some urgency.

Assuming this team needs at least 1 more shooter IF klay stays and 2 more shooters if Klay leaves, who would you target? I've heard the DJM piece, I think we both would have wanted him at the deadline, especially if wigs was involved. Assuming we can't get him and he doesn't really solve the shooting problems, who are some shooters we can target this summer. Not FAs, I'd imagine, but more likely trade candidates. I'd probably sniff out Sac's attachment to Huerder or look at one of the bogdans (atl or NYK).

If we cant get DJM at a very specific price point, I do not care at all which direction we go, because its likely going to be a bad one. Just not a lot of good pathways available, and the ones that are... tend to be very unrealistic. Even that offer above, I think its wildly unrealistic. And the other good pathways start with knocking it all down, selling high on Kuminga, things like that.. probably unrealistic as well. So whatever happens, I'm resigned to the idea that its going to commit to a path I dont believe in, that its just going to delay the rebuild we most likely need to do, and its the price of admission for the 4 rings

At this point, I just want the team to rehab value and make shrewd moves w/said rehabbed value. Like OPJ, Wiggins, GP2.. things like that. Find value in people's trash, but instead of getting the most out of them on-court, get the most out of them at the trade deadline

Moving Saric early in the season would have been good to explore. Shouldn’t love one year guys unless they are putting you over the top.

[vvoland]

I think Looney effectively has to go. MLE-ish money for a guy who's not getting the starting job back, as a big body C. If they bring him back, its a bit ominous to me

But yeah I think you hit on the biggest issue with my idea. IF Atlanta wants Kuminga. Not sure they would, with Jalen Johnson occupying the same space. They'd have to be willing to play them together.. that said, a system where Trae is dominating the ball, they have capable shooters at the guard and forward spots.. thats about as good as it can get for Kuminga. That said, Capela/Okongwo inside creates a big problem, even if they spam PnRs. I think the window was missed on this one, but its the only thing I'm holding onto re: actual competing next year, and even that is flimsy as hell

Also I'd definitely be in favor of letting Klay walk and signing the Goga. Unless the team suddenly is interested in giving Garuba a shot, but they'd have to be very confident in their offense to do that, and I think they are clearly not at this point

With the team prioritizing shooting (kerr and mdj both said it a bunch in the exit interviews), even if you don't agree they should, who would you target to give this team more shooting depth? I think Kerr wants to simplify the offense, if you believe him, but he's still not going to go the traditional route with Curry and Dray next season. I happen to agree that they're really short on competent 3pt shooters and I don't expect moody, JK, wigs or podz to be threatening enough next year that teams will actually guard them with some urgency.

Assuming this team needs at least 1 more shooter IF klay stays and 2 more shooters if Klay leaves, who would you target? I've heard the DJM piece, I think we both would have wanted him at the deadline, especially if wigs was involved. Assuming we can't get him and he doesn't really solve the shooting problems, who are some shooters we can target this summer. Not FAs, I'd imagine, but more likely trade candidates. I'd probably sniff out Sac's attachment to Huerder or look at one of the bogdans (atl or NYK).

If we cant get DJM at a very specific price point, I do not care at all which direction we go, because its likely going to be a bad one. Just not a lot of good pathways available, and the ones that are... tend to be very unrealistic. Even that offer above, I think its wildly unrealistic. And the other good pathways start with knocking it all down, selling high on Kuminga, things like that.. probably unrealistic as well. So whatever happens, I'm resigned to the idea that its going to commit to a path I dont believe in, that its just going to delay the rebuild we most likely need to do, and its the price of admission for the 4 rings

At this point, I just want the team to rehab value and make shrewd moves w/said rehabbed value. Like OPJ, Wiggins, GP2.. things like that. Find value in people's trash, but instead of getting the most out of them on-court, get the most out of them at the trade deadline

That's a pretty fatalistic approach. I like Murray but I don't think he gets us back in contention. How many 1sts would you actually attach to a cp3/JK package for DJM? Would you move JK, Moody and Podz with whatever matching deal it would require?

I think we need rim protection and shooting and I would try to get after those two qualities, wherever I can. As I mentioned in another thread, my no 1 target is Turner, that's why I'm rooting hard for the bucks to blow out Indy. Tuner is a bit old for haliburton, on an expiring, and not sure how much Indy is going to spend to keep him. I'm curious how many 1st rounders it would take to ship out wiggins (they need a 3), moody or podz to get turner and take a bad contract. I would think, 2, at least.

Probably a pipe dream, just like murray, but certainly less so than aiming for donovan mitchell or some other disgruntled all-nba level player.

I wonder who has a similar SS profile to Miles. I doubt there's anyone out there that can block shots AND shoot threes that is flying under any radars but thought I'd ask.

[CDM_Stats]

With the team prioritizing shooting (kerr and mdj both said it a bunch in the exit interviews), even if you don't agree they should, who would you target to give this team more shooting depth? I think Kerr wants to simplify the offense, if you believe him, but he's still not going to go the traditional route with Curry and Dray next season. I happen to agree that they're really short on competent 3pt shooters and I don't expect moody, JK, wigs or podz to be threatening enough next year that teams will actually guard them with some urgency.

Assuming this team needs at least 1 more shooter IF klay stays and 2 more shooters if Klay leaves, who would you target? I've heard the DJM piece, I think we both would have wanted him at the deadline, especially if wigs was involved. Assuming we can't get him and he doesn't really solve the shooting problems, who are some shooters we can target this summer. Not FAs, I'd imagine, but more likely trade candidates. I'd probably sniff out Sac's attachment to Huerder or look at one of the bogdans (atl or NYK).

If we cant get DJM at a very specific price point, I do not care at all which direction we go, because its likely going to be a bad one. Just not a lot of good pathways available, and the ones that are... tend to be very unrealistic. Even that offer above, I think its wildly unrealistic. And the other good pathways start with knocking it all down, selling high on Kuminga, things like that.. probably unrealistic as well. So whatever happens, I'm resigned to the idea that its going to commit to a path I dont believe in, that its just going to delay the rebuild we most likely need to do, and its the price of admission for the 4 rings

At this point, I just want the team to rehab value and make shrewd moves w/said rehabbed value. Like OPJ, Wiggins, GP2.. things like that. Find value in people's trash, but instead of getting the most out of them on-court, get the most out of them at the trade deadline

Moving Saric early in the season would have been good to explore. Shouldn’t love one year guys unless they are putting you over the top.

Might have fetched a 2nd, but the value in moving him would have been getting TJD more time, earlier

[whatisacenter]

I think Looney effectively has to go. MLE-ish money for a guy who's not getting the starting job back, as a big body C. If they bring him back, its a bit ominous to me

But yeah I think you hit on the biggest issue with my idea. IF Atlanta wants Kuminga. Not sure they would, with Jalen Johnson occupying the same space. They'd have to be willing to play them together.. that said, a system where Trae is dominating the ball, they have capable shooters at the guard and forward spots.. thats about as good as it can get for Kuminga. That said, Capela/Okongwo inside creates a big problem, even if they spam PnRs. I think the window was missed on this one, but its the only thing I'm holding onto re: actual competing next year, and even that is flimsy as hell

Also I'd definitely be in favor of letting Klay walk and signing the Goga. Unless the team suddenly is interested in giving Garuba a shot, but they'd have to be very confident in their offense to do that, and I think they are clearly not at this point

With the team prioritizing shooting (kerr and mdj both said it a bunch in the exit interviews), even if you don't agree they should, who would you target to give this team more shooting depth? I think Kerr wants to simplify the offense, if you believe him, but he's still not going to go the traditional route with Curry and Dray next season. I happen to agree that they're really short on competent 3pt shooters and I don't expect moody, JK, wigs or podz to be threatening enough next year that teams will actually guard them with some urgency.

Assuming this team needs at least 1 more shooter IF klay stays and 2 more shooters if Klay leaves, who would you target? I've heard the DJM piece, I think we both would have wanted him at the deadline, especially if wigs was involved. Assuming we can't get him and he doesn't really solve the shooting problems, who are some shooters we can target this summer. Not FAs, I'd imagine, but more likely trade candidates. I'd probably sniff out Sac's attachment to Huerder or look at one of the bogdans (atl or NYK).

If we cant get DJM at a very specific price point, I do not care at all which direction we go, because its likely going to be a bad one. Just not a lot of good pathways available, and the ones that are... tend to be very unrealistic. Even that offer above, I think its wildly unrealistic. And the other good pathways start with knocking it all down, selling high on Kuminga, things like that.. probably unrealistic as well. So whatever happens, I'm resigned to the idea that its going to commit to a path I dont believe in, that its just going to delay the rebuild we most likely need to do, and its the price of admission for the 4 rings

At this point, I just want the team to rehab value and make shrewd moves w/said rehabbed value. Like OPJ, Wiggins, GP2.. things like that. Find value in people's trash, but instead of getting the most out of them on-court, get the most out of them at the trade deadline

This is why I wanted the team to start heading in a new direction after last season. Running it back with an older, shorter and slower team was madness to me.

I hope Lacob stops holding on to the past and makes some bold moves in the offseason but I'm not holding my breath.

[CDM_Stats]

That's a pretty fatalistic approach. I like Murray but I don't think he gets us back in contention. How many 1sts would you actually attach to a cp3/JK package for DJM? Would you move JK, Moody and Podz with whatever matching deal it would require?

I think we need rim protection and shooting and I would try to get after those two qualities, wherever I can. As I mentioned in another thread, my no 1 target is Turner, that's why I'm rooting hard for the bucks to blow out Indy. Tuner is a bit old for haliburton, on an expiring, and not sure how much Indy is going to spend to keep him. I'm curious how many 1st rounders it would take to ship out wiggins (they need a 3), moody or podz to get turner and take a bad contract. I would think, 2, at least.

Probably a pipe dream, just like murray, but certainly less so than aiming for donovan mitchell or some other disgruntled all-nba level player.

I wonder who has a similar SS profile to Miles. I doubt there's anyone out there that can block shots AND shoot threes that is flying under any radars but thought I'd ask.

Fatalism and being realistic in sports intersect a lot in analytics

I would max out at CP3/JK/1 1st. If thats not enough, then the future cost is too high for something that's unlikely to vault the team into contention

Turner's been the guy I've called a paper tiger for years - he's been a fan favorite for a long time because he blocks shots. Thing is, he does it on one of the worst defensive teams, because he chases them at the expense of team rebounding. Example - NetRtg, flawed stat that it is at an individual level, heavily favors centers. Looney was a +21 in it, TJD was a +24, Saric was a +4. Myles Turner in the past 5 years (starting this year and going backwards): +5, +7, +6, +4, +3

One of the things I've really highlighted over the years is how useless actual blocks are. Its why I hate when someone says "stocks", as if steals and blocks are equal. They arent, as typically blocks go back to the offensive team between 40-50% of the time per season (some stats laughably do not count when the ball goes out of bounds and returned to the offense, which... I can't explain). It also discounts players who are excellent positional defenders, but not ones who challenge shots with the threat of a block. Looney, for example, was one of the best rim defenders in '22. His block rate wasn't high so people here wanted to bench him, that season

But center is typically the worst place to invest significant assets unless you are getting someone elite, because most teams can thrive with guys who are just basic rim runners or one-way defenders. I'd much rather pursue a Goga at the MLE level than Turner for whatever he costs, instead of forcing the idea of needing a C who can do 2 rare things. And then whatever assets were earmarked for Turner can be used to find shooting at a more traditional position where the cost would be lower, as the skillset would be more common

[CDM_Stats]

With the team prioritizing shooting (kerr and mdj both said it a bunch in the exit interviews), even if you don't agree they should, who would you target to give this team more shooting depth? I think Kerr wants to simplify the offense, if you believe him, but he's still not going to go the traditional route with Curry and Dray next season. I happen to agree that they're really short on competent 3pt shooters and I don't expect moody, JK, wigs or podz to be threatening enough next year that teams will actually guard them with some urgency.

Assuming this team needs at least 1 more shooter IF klay stays and 2 more shooters if Klay leaves, who would you target? I've heard the DJM piece, I think we both would have wanted him at the deadline, especially if wigs was involved. Assuming we can't get him and he doesn't really solve the shooting problems, who are some shooters we can target this summer. Not FAs, I'd imagine, but more likely trade candidates. I'd probably sniff out Sac's attachment to Huerder or look at one of the bogdans (atl or NYK).

If we cant get DJM at a very specific price point, I do not care at all which direction we go, because its likely going to be a bad one. Just not a lot of good pathways available, and the ones that are... tend to be very unrealistic. Even that offer above, I think its wildly unrealistic. And the other good pathways start with knocking it all down, selling high on Kuminga, things like that.. probably unrealistic as well. So whatever happens, I'm resigned to the idea that its going to commit to a path I dont believe in, that its just going to delay the rebuild we most likely need to do, and its the price of admission for the 4 rings

At this point, I just want the team to rehab value and make shrewd moves w/said rehabbed value. Like OPJ, Wiggins, GP2.. things like that. Find value in people's trash, but instead of getting the most out of them on-court, get the most out of them at the trade deadline

This is why I wanted the team to start heading in a new direction after last season. Running it back with an older, shorter and slower team was madness to me.

I hope Lacob stops holding on to the past and makes some bold moves in the offseason but I'm not holding my breath.

Realistically they were never going to fold it in 1 season after a title

Even 2 years after is still in the realm of being unrealistic.. but I think Kerr's inability to adapt to new circumstances actually pushes the idea into something potentially credible this year. That said, I think those changes would be limited to Klay/Wiggins, and not Dray. And definitely not Curry, who's presence means the team is at least in the 30-40 win range right off the bat

[whatisacenter]

That's a pretty fatalistic approach. I like Murray but I don't think he gets us back in contention. How many 1sts would you actually attach to a cp3/JK package for DJM? Would you move JK, Moody and Podz with whatever matching deal it would require?

I think we need rim protection and shooting and I would try to get after those two qualities, wherever I can. As I mentioned in another thread, my no 1 target is Turner, that's why I'm rooting hard for the bucks to blow out Indy. Tuner is a bit old for haliburton, on an expiring, and not sure how much Indy is going to spend to keep him. I'm curious how many 1st rounders it would take to ship out wiggins (they need a 3), moody or podz to get turner and take a bad contract. I would think, 2, at least.

Probably a pipe dream, just like murray, but certainly less so than aiming for donovan mitchell or some other disgruntled all-nba level player.

I wonder who has a similar SS profile to Miles. I doubt there's anyone out there that can block shots AND shoot threes that is flying under any radars but thought I'd ask.

Fatalism and being realistic in sports intersect a lot in analytics

I would max out at CP3/JK/1 1st. If thats not enough, then the future cost is too high for something that's unlikely to vault the team into contention
The penalties for teams that step past the second apron can be severe. Teams will not be able to use their taxpayer midlevel salary exception. Starting with the first day after the end of the 2023-24 season, teams cannot aggregate player salaries together in a trade, will not be able to send out its own player in a sign-and-trade to acquire another team’s player and cannot send cash in a deal.
Turner's been the guy I've called a paper tiger for years - he's been a fan favorite for a long time because he blocks shots. Thing is, he does it on one of the worst defensive teams, because he chases them at the expense of team rebounding. Example - NetRtg, flawed stat that it is at an individual level, heavily favors centers. Looney was a +21 in it, TJD was a +24, Saric was a +4. Myles Turner in the past 5 years (starting this year and going backwards): +5, +7, +6, +4, +3

One of the things I've really highlighted over the years is how useless actual blocks are. Its why I hate when someone says "stocks", as if steals and blocks are equal. They arent, as typically blocks go back to the offensive team between 40-50% of the time per season (some stats laughably do not count when the ball goes out of bounds and returned to the offense, which... I can't explain). It also discounts players who are excellent positional defenders, but not ones who challenge shots with the threat of a block. Looney, for example, was one of the best rim defenders in '22. His block rate wasn't high so people here wanted to bench him, that season

But center is typically the worst place to invest significant assets unless you are getting someone elite, because most teams can thrive with guys who are just basic rim runners or one-way defenders. I'd much rather pursue a Goga at the MLE level than Turner for whatever he costs, instead of forcing the idea of needing a C who can do 2 rare things. And then whatever assets were earmarked for Turner can be used to find shooting at a more traditional position where the cost would be lower, as the skillset would be more common

I'm pretty sure that another punitive measure of the new CBA that takes affect this offseason is that the Warriors will not be able to aggregate contracts together like you are suggesting unless they can somehow get under the second apron.

The penalties for teams that step past the second apron can be severe. Teams will not be able to use their taxpayer midlevel salary exception. Starting with the first day after the end of the 2023-24 season, teams cannot aggregate player salaries together in a trade, will not be able to send out its own player in a sign-and-trade to acquire another team’s player and cannot send cash in a deal.

[watch1958]

If we cant get DJM at a very specific price point, I do not care at all which direction we go, because its likely going to be a bad one. Just not a lot of good pathways available, and the ones that are... tend to be very unrealistic. Even that offer above, I think its wildly unrealistic. And the other good pathways start with knocking it all down, selling high on Kuminga, things like that.. probably unrealistic as well. So whatever happens, I'm resigned to the idea that its going to commit to a path I dont believe in, that its just going to delay the rebuild we most likely need to do, and its the price of admission for the 4 rings

At this point, I just want the team to rehab value and make shrewd moves w/said rehabbed value. Like OPJ, Wiggins, GP2.. things like that. Find value in people's trash, but instead of getting the most out of them on-court, get the most out of them at the trade deadline

Moving Saric early in the season would have been good to explore. Shouldn’t love one year guys unless they are putting you over the top.

Might have fetched a 2nd, but the value in moving him would have been getting TJD more time, earlier

He also might have been a good addition to a package involving better players. Always good to give the other GM a talking point.

[CDM_Stats]

That's a pretty fatalistic approach. I like Murray but I don't think he gets us back in contention. How many 1sts would you actually attach to a cp3/JK package for DJM? Would you move JK, Moody and Podz with whatever matching deal it would require?

I think we need rim protection and shooting and I would try to get after those two qualities, wherever I can. As I mentioned in another thread, my no 1 target is Turner, that's why I'm rooting hard for the bucks to blow out Indy. Tuner is a bit old for haliburton, on an expiring, and not sure how much Indy is going to spend to keep him. I'm curious how many 1st rounders it would take to ship out wiggins (they need a 3), moody or podz to get turner and take a bad contract. I would think, 2, at least.

Probably a pipe dream, just like murray, but certainly less so than aiming for donovan mitchell or some other disgruntled all-nba level player.

I wonder who has a similar SS profile to Miles. I doubt there's anyone out there that can block shots AND shoot threes that is flying under any radars but thought I'd ask.

Fatalism and being realistic in sports intersect a lot in analytics

I would max out at CP3/JK/1 1st. If thats not enough, then the future cost is too high for something that's unlikely to vault the team into contention
The penalties for teams that step past the second apron can be severe. Teams will not be able to use their taxpayer midlevel salary exception. Starting with the first day after the end of the 2023-24 season, teams cannot aggregate player salaries together in a trade, will not be able to send out its own player in a sign-and-trade to acquire another team’s player and cannot send cash in a deal.
Turner's been the guy I've called a paper tiger for years - he's been a fan favorite for a long time because he blocks shots. Thing is, he does it on one of the worst defensive teams, because he chases them at the expense of team rebounding. Example - NetRtg, flawed stat that it is at an individual level, heavily favors centers. Looney was a +21 in it, TJD was a +24, Saric was a +4. Myles Turner in the past 5 years (starting this year and going backwards): +5, +7, +6, +4, +3

One of the things I've really highlighted over the years is how useless actual blocks are. Its why I hate when someone says "stocks", as if steals and blocks are equal. They arent, as typically blocks go back to the offensive team between 40-50% of the time per season (some stats laughably do not count when the ball goes out of bounds and returned to the offense, which... I can't explain). It also discounts players who are excellent positional defenders, but not ones who challenge shots with the threat of a block. Looney, for example, was one of the best rim defenders in '22. His block rate wasn't high so people here wanted to bench him, that season

But center is typically the worst place to invest significant assets unless you are getting someone elite, because most teams can thrive with guys who are just basic rim runners or one-way defenders. I'd much rather pursue a Goga at the MLE level than Turner for whatever he costs, instead of forcing the idea of needing a C who can do 2 rare things. And then whatever assets were earmarked for Turner can be used to find shooting at a more traditional position where the cost would be lower, as the skillset would be more common

I'm pretty sure that another punitive measure of the new CBA that takes affect this offseason is that the Warriors will not be able to aggregate contracts together like you are suggesting unless they can somehow get under the second apron.

The penalties for teams that step past the second apron can be severe. Teams will not be able to use their taxpayer midlevel salary exception. Starting with the first day after the end of the 2023-24 season, teams cannot aggregate player salaries together in a trade, will not be able to send out its own player in a sign-and-trade to acquire another team’s player and cannot send cash in a deal.

I cant keep up with the overkill of those rules, but wouldnt Klay's contract expiring get us well under the 2nd apron? Or does it mean that since we were in the 2nd apron this year, we cant do those things next year?

Still cant get over how screwed up the whole 2nd apron thing is, and how quickly it was implemented. Guess this is the leagues revenge for KD coming over here