Steve Kerr signs 2 yr extention, god help/s us.

[Onus]

He came back and draymond got hurt, THEN we started losing. Dray literally got hurt for 2 months the same day Klay came back. But sure, let's blame Klay. Dray missed two months, came back in March, we went 1-6 as Dray ramped up his minutes and then we went on a run, once Dray was relatively healthy, that culminated with a title.

You can't find the stats on statmuse that are an honest representation of what you're trying to show so you use stats that are misleading, at best, dishonest, at worst. Sums up the level of discourse as it comes to Klay on this board.

Fine you don't want to use 2022 numbers. 5-0 this year all being double digits wins except for the last one that was an 8 point win.

I do want to use the 2022 numbers, but only if it's apples to apples, not apples to toyotas. If YOU want to use 2022 data to show this team is better when Klay doesn't play, use the post 1/9 schedule. You don't need stat muse, you can look at the boxscores to see the games klay missed and how we did.

You can look it up and post the numbers nothing is stopping you

[CDM_Stats]

Oh are we at the “if you don’t eat the sh*t salad they serve then you aren’t a true fan” part of the off-season?

God I missed these.. most posters are post-Steph and don’t remember that chorus every single year. Hope I’m a real fan now, it was devastating when my fandom was in question on the internet

Arguably the people who want Klay gone are bigger fans of the team too.. he’s hurting the team when paired with Kerr so they want what’s best for the front of the jersey, not the back

I don't think either side are bigger fans of the team, but the ones that want Klay or think he's good are either clouded with way too much emotional attachment.. or I pray for their understanding of the game.

Fair enough, but the idea that we have to buy into every move they make.. ridiculous

[vvoland]

Fine you don't want to use 2022 numbers. 5-0 this year all being double digits wins except for the last one that was an 8 point win.

I do want to use the 2022 numbers, but only if it's apples to apples, not apples to toyotas. If YOU want to use 2022 data to show this team is better when Klay doesn't play, use the post 1/9 schedule. You don't need stat muse, you can look at the boxscores to see the games klay missed and how we did.

You can look it up and post the numbers nothing is stopping you

My point was if you want to use the team's record, do it honestly. If you can't find the data you need on statmuse or wherever, instead of resorting to using dishonest data, you can use the boxscores on basketball reference. Just stop lying, is basically my point.

[Onus]

I do want to use the 2022 numbers, but only if it's apples to apples, not apples to toyotas. If YOU want to use 2022 data to show this team is better when Klay doesn't play, use the post 1/9 schedule. You don't need stat muse, you can look at the boxscores to see the games klay missed and how we did.

You can look it up and post the numbers nothing is stopping you

My point was if you want to use the team's record, do it honestly. If you can't find the data you need on statmuse or wherever, instead of resorting to using dishonest data, you can use the boxscores on basketball reference. Just stop lying, is basically my point.

Lying lmao. Dishonest data.

https://bluemanhoop.com/posts/klay-thompson-fact-highlighted-horror-show-warriors-overtime-loss
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1aihyx8/since_the_start_of_the_20212022_season_the/

Everyone is using that number because that's the number. If you want to put context to the numbers I'm fine with that. I encourage you to do so. You want to use a different set of numbers that you want to hand calculate yourself, I encourage you to do so.

[vvoland]

You can look it up and post the numbers nothing is stopping you

My point was if you want to use the team's record, do it honestly. If you can't find the data you need on statmuse or wherever, instead of resorting to using dishonest data, you can use the boxscores on basketball reference. Just stop lying, is basically my point.

Lying lmao. Dishonest data.

https://bluemanhoop.com/posts/klay-thompson-fact-highlighted-horror-show-warriors-overtime-loss
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1aihyx8/since_the_start_of_the_20212022_season_the/

Everyone is using that number because that's the number. If you want to put context to the numbers I'm fine with that. I encourage you to do so. You want to use a different set of numbers that you want to hand calculate yourself, I encourage you to do so.

Here's what the blog says:
"The numbers don't lie -- Golden State have a 74-71 record with Thompson since the start of the 2021-22 season (he returned from injury in January 2022). In that same period, they're 44-21 without him."

Here's what you said:
"The warriors are 47-21 without klay thompson since his return. We are 96-82 with him."

Only one of those two things is correct, the other is a distortion, or a lie if made knowingly for emphasis. Literally, in the next paragraph, the blogger makes sure to clarify:

"In fairness to Thompson, the stark difference stems from the franchise's incredible run to start the 2021-22 season. If you narrow the period down to the start of last season, Golden State is 57-56 with Thompson and 8-7 without him."

There's a reason why the blog post does this and its not to 'put context to the numbers.' It's done because the site in general, and Peter O'Keefe specifically, don't want to be know as "people who lie to make their point." It was an article that was written after Klay had two bad games in a row (fair) that wanted to show how the team is better without him (also fair). They used the W/L record since the start of the 21-22 season (also, fair). Without making the distinction they made in the second quote, they would be lying.

Initially, I was going to ignore that stat but I couldn't think of how it was that Klay missed so many games since he came back 2.5 seasons ago. Turns out, he didn't. Then I thought you forgot when Klay came back or something. Nope. You're perfectly happy to misrepresent what actually happened because you are either too lazy to look it up or are comfortable lying to prove a point. Considering the actual record is RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE makes it hard call it lazy.

Klay has done plenty wrong to have a debate on the facts. Seeing you twist the facts makes it look like you don't believe your own arguments and need to bend the truth to make a point.

[Onus]

My point was if you want to use the team's record, do it honestly. If you can't find the data you need on statmuse or wherever, instead of resorting to using dishonest data, you can use the boxscores on basketball reference. Just stop lying, is basically my point.

Lying lmao. Dishonest data.

https://bluemanhoop.com/posts/klay-thompson-fact-highlighted-horror-show-warriors-overtime-loss
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1aihyx8/since_the_start_of_the_20212022_season_the/

Everyone is using that number because that's the number. If you want to put context to the numbers I'm fine with that. I encourage you to do so. You want to use a different set of numbers that you want to hand calculate yourself, I encourage you to do so.

Here's what the blog says:
"The numbers don't lie -- Golden State have a 74-71 record with Thompson since the start of the 2021-22 season (he returned from injury in January 2022). In that same period, they're 44-21 without him."

Here's what you said:
"The warriors are 47-21 without klay thompson since his return. We are 96-82 with him."

Only one of those two things is correct, the other is a distortion, or a lie if made knowingly for emphasis. Literally, in the next paragraph, the blogger makes sure to clarify:

"In fairness to Thompson, the stark difference stems from the franchise's incredible run to start the 2021-22 season. If you narrow the period down to the start of last season, Golden State is 57-56 with Thompson and 8-7 without him."

There's a reason why the blog post does this and its not to 'put context to the numbers.' It's done because the site in general, and Peter O'Keefe specifically, don't want to be know as "people who lie to make their point." It was an article that was written after Klay had two bad games in a row (fair) that wanted to show how the team is better without him (also fair). They used the W/L record since the start of the 21-22 season (also, fair). Without making the distinction they made in the second quote, they would be lying.

Initially, I was going to ignore that stat but I couldn't think of how it was that Klay missed so many games since he came back 2.5 seasons ago. Turns out, he didn't. Then I thought you forgot when Klay came back or something. Nope. You're perfectly happy to misrepresent what actually happened because you are either too lazy to look it up or are comfortable lying to prove a point. Considering the actual record is RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE makes it hard call it lazy.

Klay has done plenty wrong to have a debate on the facts. Seeing you twist the facts makes it look like you don't believe your own arguments and need to bend the truth to make a point.

Lmao look at when that was written and what date is today. You can do the addition yourself.

[vvoland]

Lying lmao. Dishonest data.

https://bluemanhoop.com/posts/klay-thompson-fact-highlighted-horror-show-warriors-overtime-loss
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1aihyx8/since_the_start_of_the_20212022_season_the/

Everyone is using that number because that's the number. If you want to put context to the numbers I'm fine with that. I encourage you to do so. You want to use a different set of numbers that you want to hand calculate yourself, I encourage you to do so.

Here's what the blog says:
"The numbers don't lie -- Golden State have a 74-71 record with Thompson since the start of the 2021-22 season (he returned from injury in January 2022). In that same period, they're 44-21 without him."

Here's what you said:
"The warriors are 47-21 without klay thompson since his return. We are 96-82 with him."

Only one of those two things is correct, the other is a distortion, or a lie if made knowingly for emphasis. Literally, in the next paragraph, the blogger makes sure to clarify:

"In fairness to Thompson, the stark difference stems from the franchise's incredible run to start the 2021-22 season. If you narrow the period down to the start of last season, Golden State is 57-56 with Thompson and 8-7 without him."

There's a reason why the blog post does this and its not to 'put context to the numbers.' It's done because the site in general, and Peter O'Keefe specifically, don't want to be know as "people who lie to make their point." It was an article that was written after Klay had two bad games in a row (fair) that wanted to show how the team is better without him (also fair). They used the W/L record since the start of the 21-22 season (also, fair). Without making the distinction they made in the second quote, they would be lying.

Initially, I was going to ignore that stat but I couldn't think of how it was that Klay missed so many games since he came back 2.5 seasons ago. Turns out, he didn't. Then I thought you forgot when Klay came back or something. Nope. You're perfectly happy to misrepresent what actually happened because you are either too lazy to look it up or are comfortable lying to prove a point. Considering the actual record is RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE makes it hard call it lazy.

Klay has done plenty wrong to have a debate on the facts. Seeing you twist the facts makes it look like you don't believe your own arguments and need to bend the truth to make a point.

Lmao look at when that was written and what date is today. You can do the addition yourself.

Do you really not understand? Obviously, the record changed since early Feb.

Again, you're saying "since his return" and they're saying, "since the start of the 21-22 season." Those two things are not the same and the record you used to make your point isn't wrong because more games have occurred since the article was written. It's wrong because like half of those "wins without klay" took place BEFORE Klay came back. It's a distinction the blogger makes immediately after quoting the record despite already saying klay came back in Jan '22. He does so because it's not just context, it's what separates data from a lie.

[vvoland]

[]

[wco81]

That is incredibly disingenuous. You're going to count the games BEFORE he came back from injury and you're going to call it 'since his return?' I'm sure you remember that in the 21-22 season he came back Jan 9th. If you're going to count the record the dubs had BEFORE he came back, be honest about it.

That would be like me going back to the 19-20 season and using that record to showcase how valuable Klay is to the team. What is the team's record since he actually came back from injury? I'm guessing it's much worse than what you claim. When you factor that most of the games he missed SINCE HIS RETURN were b2b's, probably against the weaker of the b2b opponent, I'm curious how sincere you are when you bring up these numbers.

Sorry if you have a better prompt for statmuse by all means find what ever numbers that suit you.

and yes the year he came back the warriors were a juggernaut, he came back and then we started losing. That most definitely should be on his record since he tanked that season with his come back and was forced into the starting lineup.

He came back and draymond got hurt, THEN we started losing. Dray literally got hurt for 2 months the same day Klay came back. But sure, let's blame Klay. Dray missed two months, came back in March, we went 1-6 as Dray ramped up his minutes and then we went on a run, once Dray was relatively healthy, that culminated with a title.

You can't find the stats on statmuse that are an honest representation of what you're trying to show so you use stats that are misleading, at best, dishonest, at worst. Sums up the level of discourse as it comes to Klay on this board.

They're just cherry-picking.

Klay kept the team afloat when Curry was out most of January and February of 2023. Even had an over 50-point game.

[Scoots1994]

That acting like anyone knows anything about other coaches actual styles is pointless, actually. For example, you created a scenario, answered it, and that was your reasoning. But it’s a scenario you created.. and why those 3 names, other than name recognition? What about the many deserving candidates who most have never heard of?

It’s all complete fanfic, so if someone’s counter to the idea that a HC change is needed is “I want names”.. why?

Yes, sports fans talking sports online is just mental masturbation. Which part is a strawman?

i already semi-checked-out for this season, did not see any full game. since December i think.

if next year is the same, i really don't have the patience to watch this team anymore.

it's just my opinion, everyone does as they seem fit, but i don't remember a season more frustrating than this one since i follow this team.

I've been following this team since the mid-80s this season wasn't in the top 20 worst

[Scoots1994]

So it kinda sounds like you're saying that fabricating a situation and responding to that is the same as responding to a situation that is actually defined.. and real

If not, I dont even know what you're saying because I just explained why its a strawman. Saying that Kerr needs to be replaced is a take based on reality - on Kerr's ability to continue to coach the team at an acceptable level. Saying that their needs to be a named replacement - something that's going to be entirely based on fanfic - is irrelevant and a deflection. A strawman. Like I could just pick any random AC on some team and arbitrarily say they can get the most out of Steph/Dray while also developing youth. I wont have any proof, itll just be a name I latched on to. Isn't that what you did? Or I'll ask again - what makes Budenholzer a fit? Why Chris Quinn and not, say, Phil Pressey? Or David Bliss? What kind of discussion can we have about those people? Would it be in any way similar to one we could have about Kerr and how he coaches?

If you cant see the difference, arent being honest with yourself.

Okay, so you don't think talking about replacing a coach should include talking about the coaches replacement. Not because the coach doesn't need to be replaced but because we, as sports fans, can't choose a replacement coach. That's absurd and not a strawman, but okay.

My car has a problem, I don't know what new part I need, but I can't discuss which new part I need to replace to fix my car because replacing a broken part with a new part is a strawman BECAUSE I don't know what new part is THE right part.

…

I don’t think you understand what a strawman is. Not putting more effort into this either, if you prefer lying to yourself, go right ahead. But yeah just like a car Not something subjective, not something dynamic, and definitely not something with unknown variables.. but like replacing a part on a car

I think you don't know what a strawman is. The discussion is about replacing Kerr as coach, to discuss replacing Kerr as a coach you have to consider who might replace him. It is not trying to distract with a different argument, it's the same argument.

[Scoots1994]

Oh are we at the “if you don’t eat the sh*t salad they serve then you aren’t a true fan” part of the off-season?

God I missed these.. most posters are post-Steph and don’t remember that chorus every single year. Hope I’m a real fan now, it was devastating when my fandom was in question on the internet

Arguably the people who want Klay gone are bigger fans of the team too.. he’s hurting the team when paired with Kerr so they want what’s best for the front of the jersey, not the back

I don't think either side are bigger fans of the team, but the ones that want Klay or think he's good are either clouded with way too much emotional attachment.. or I pray for their understanding of the game.

I haven't seen anyone arguing for more Klay.

[Scoots1994]

As far as things we don't know ... we don't know what Curry is asking for. If Curry said he wants Klay, Dray, and Kerr to stay around and to play do you then decide the team should trade Steph just so you can get rid of Klay and Kerr?

[Impuniti]

As far as things we don't know ... we don't know what Curry is asking for. If Curry said he wants Klay, Dray, and Kerr to stay around and to play do you then decide the team should trade Steph just so you can get rid of Klay and Kerr?

No, you send the people who aren't doing a good job and tell Steph Curry that he's getting paid 50 million+ dollars to do his job. After he retires, he can try to become the GM and we can see how good he is in squad planning.

[CDM_Stats]

I think you don't know what a strawman is. The discussion is about replacing Kerr as coach, to discuss replacing Kerr as a coach you have to consider who might replace him. It is not trying to distract with a different argument, it's the same argument.

No no no no. Wrong on all 4 counts.

The discussion is whether or not to replace Kerr as a coach. When the subject changes to who exactly, as an argument *against* changing the coach - something that no one can give any credible argument on other than name recognition, that's a strawman via appeal to ignorance

I'll ask again since its being danced around, please answer:

- Can Warriors fans evaluate the job Steve Kerr is doing, with any semblance of accuracy? (yes, because they've seen it)
- Can Warriors fans evaluate the job any replacement might do, with any semblance of accuracy? (no, because they have no idea what that HC might do; have no idea who's good or not; etc)

So.. the part I've highlighted is when people ask for a *specific name* as an argument against it absolutely is a strawman (or, at best, a logical fallacy). It absolutely is trying to have a different discussion. And it is not the same argument. As I've said numerous times, a reasonable estimate is that the team hires an average HC, #15.5 in the league, as a replacement. Or a replacement level coach, though I doubt that can be quantified. Anyways, that's the consideration, not naming someone specific. Or I can just pull up a random AC's name, make some claims that wont be true... the afformentioned fanfic.

[wco81]

As far as things we don't know ... we don't know what Curry is asking for. If Curry said he wants Klay, Dray, and Kerr to stay around and to play do you then decide the team should trade Steph just so you can get rid of Klay and Kerr?

No, you send the people who aren't doing a good job and tell Steph Curry that he's getting paid 50 million+ dollars to do his job. After he retires, he can try to become the GM and we can see how good he is in squad planning.

He’s seeing all the players in practice. Maybe he just doesn’t see a better option already on the roster, no matter how many times Moody stans will tout him to be starter.

[michaelm]

As far as things we don't know ... we don't know what Curry is asking for. If Curry said he wants Klay, Dray, and Kerr to stay around and to play do you then decide the team should trade Steph just so you can get rid of Klay and Kerr?

No, you send the people who aren't doing a good job and tell Steph Curry that he's getting paid 50 million+ dollars to do his job. After he retires, he can try to become the GM and we can see how good he is in squad planning.

He’s seeing all the players in practice. Maybe he just doesn’t see a better option already on the roster, no matter how many times Moody stans will tout him to be starter.

They finished 10th in the West with Steph Curry still on the team. And nobody needed to see practice to realise that 3 and 4 guard line-ups were not a viable option when games became serious

A trial of almost any alternative approach could hardly have been worse. And you don’t pay a guy the top salary in the NBA as a coach to finish 10th. He clearly can’t make a difference sufficient to justify such a salary. Maybe GSW are going to spend the next decade reminiscing about the previous decade, and fine reminiscences they will be, but Kerr should retire or they should retire him, they need a new approach, and Kerr’s apparent ideological attachment to small ball and playing vets is clearly not going to work going forward, the vets are not going to get any younger, faster or taller.

[superunknown]

WCOY

[Impuniti]

As far as things we don't know ... we don't know what Curry is asking for. If Curry said he wants Klay, Dray, and Kerr to stay around and to play do you then decide the team should trade Steph just so you can get rid of Klay and Kerr?

No, you send the people who aren't doing a good job and tell Steph Curry that he's getting paid 50 million+ dollars to do his job. After he retires, he can try to become the GM and we can see how good he is in squad planning.

He’s seeing all the players in practice. Maybe he just doesn’t see a better option already on the roster, no matter how many times Moody stans will tout him to be starter.

Mate, it does not matter what he sees. He is not a GM, he has zero proof that he's an expert in talent evaluation or squad building. His job is to play basketball, others is to find the best pieces for him to compete. He doesn't know what's best. This is the same guy that wanted to keep MJ no matter what 9 years ago, the same great coach (according to the chef) that NOBODY has wanted to hire in nearly a decade in the NBA.

[michaelm]

No, you send the people who aren't doing a good job and tell Steph Curry that he's getting paid 50 million+ dollars to do his job. After he retires, he can try to become the GM and we can see how good he is in squad planning.

He’s seeing all the players in practice. Maybe he just doesn’t see a better option already on the roster, no matter how many times Moody stans will tout him to be starter.

Mate, it does not matter what he sees. He is not a GM, he has zero proof that he's an expert in talent evaluation or squad building. His job is to play basketball, others is to find the best pieces for him to compete. He doesn't know what's best. This is the same guy that wanted to keep MJ no matter what 9 years ago, the same great coach (according to the chef) that NOBODY has wanted to hire in nearly a decade in the NBA.

Replacing MJ with a coach with no experience in Kerr was a great decision, although I begin to think MJ deserves more credit as a defensive coach than most of us have given him. I am guessing they decided to replace MJ then looked around for a replacement, but don’t know this for a fact of course.

Kerr was a great coach for most of his tenure, including as recently as 2 years ago, would seem likely to have been the architect of an offensive scheme which unlocked the team’s (and Curry’s) potential, and was great at talent management when that was the major requirement with others perhaps managing X and Os to some extent.

I could never work out what he was trying to do this year, but he seemed basically to be coaching the veteran players as if it was still 2018. Perhaps keeping the gang together while they all fade into the sunset as lifelong friends while we fans are left with a decade of great memories was all that was left, but imo his coaching this year isn’t beyond criticism because he was great for so long. We also have seen his coaching of the US FIBA team which one might have thought could have done better, and he again coached them with what seemed almost an ideological commitment to small ball to get beaten by a bigger team.