Game 83 (9-10 play-in) Tuesday April 16 vs. Sacramento Kings

[Onus]

How can you be a complementary player when you don’t complement any players and a system has to be built around his strengths. He really doesn’t do anything well that helps the team other than drive. He’s fools gold.

He complements shooters.. he can drive and cut explosively which works well with good shooting teams. That's complementary

Its not fools gold, hes just not as good as people want him to be. They see quickness, which means athleticism, which means potential. Thats the fools gold. But he's a capable NBA player that can contribute to winning if he's playing around guys that fit. No different than Wiggins in that regard

If you put him on a team like the Celtics or okc maybe he’s better. But he could also become a worse Giddey because of his lack of shooting which just stymies the offense.

[CDM_Stats]

Who else would you build an offense around though?

I'd build an offense that best fits who's going to be on the team longest going forward. And if there's no one who fits that bill, then do what you can to prop up the youth and get their trade value as high as possible. There's no point chasing wins anymore

What youth are you propping up? Jk should be traded before the season starts. Moody is jag. Podz likely tops out as an 8th man not sure how you can build an offense around that. Tjd is a rim rolling big.

But say you want to build an offense around jk. You’d need shooting bigs, which we have none of. He could barely iso sabonis.

Moody scored a pt every 2 minutes despite an ever changing role.. Podz was a 6th man and starter THIS year, his rookie season

No setup is going to be w/o flaws so pointing out mundane ones in each player isnt going to do much. The team found a way to keep Kuminga rolling, so why cant that be done again? Why cant the team run split actions for Moody, who hit them at a pretty solid rate? This is a weird argument to have, gameplanning for players' strengths is not hard to do

[CDM_Stats]

How can you be a complementary player when you don’t complement any players and a system has to be built around his strengths. He really doesn’t do anything well that helps the team other than drive. He’s fools gold.

He complements shooters.. he can drive and cut explosively which works well with good shooting teams. That's complementary

Its not fools gold, hes just not as good as people want him to be. They see quickness, which means athleticism, which means potential. Thats the fools gold. But he's a capable NBA player that can contribute to winning if he's playing around guys that fit. No different than Wiggins in that regard

If you put him on a team like the Celtics or okc maybe he’s better. But he could also become a worse Giddey because of his lack of shooting which just stymies the offense.

Who cares about better? You said he's not complementary. He is, and on plenty of teams. Any team that has a lot of perimeter shooters, because his dives either get them open looks or open up passing lanes. He's not useless.. there's a wide gulf between what big fans of him think and what he is. It sounds like you might have a wide gulf there too on him

[Onus]

I still see a path to be competitive, but it's through defense.

I still see Dray, tjd, and wiggins as a dynamic defensive core . Steph isn't that steph anymore, but he's still one of the best. With klay and cp3 not on the books, thats 75M off the books. We just need to find a SG that can help tie the team together.

We need to go back to motion offense, it's what works best with steph. You can see the disconnect when jk or cp3 were on the floor, no rhythm to the offense.

A better coach definitely helps.

The motion offense gets stymied so easily. We really need someone else that can get their own shot and make a defense move.

Motion offense did not get stymied Easily with peak Steph, Klay Dray, good Iguodala, Bogut setting legal moving screens and Barnes in the corner but we don’t have the people to make that offense work any more.

Closest thing to 2016 Warriors were Pop Spurs with Kerr and Nash Joe Johnson Suns maybe with Kerr.
Running the 2016 Warrior offense without the 2016 Warriors players does not work so well.

You need a 2nd elite motion shooter, hard to find. Most motion shooters are bad at defense. Really the team just needs more shooting in general. Everyone on the team outside of Steph and Klay were avg to below avg shooters.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Who else would you build an offense around though?

I'd build an offense that best fits who's going to be on the team longest going forward. And if there's no one who fits that bill, then do what you can to prop up the youth and get their trade value as high as possible. There's no point chasing wins anymore

What youth are you propping up? Jk should be traded before the season starts. Moody is jag. Podz likely tops out as an 8th man not sure how you can build an offense around that. Tjd is a rim rolling big.

But say you want to build an offense around jk. You’d need shooting bigs, which we have none of. He could barely iso sabonis.

I'm still on the kat train.

[Onus]

I'd build an offense that best fits who's going to be on the team longest going forward. And if there's no one who fits that bill, then do what you can to prop up the youth and get their trade value as high as possible. There's no point chasing wins anymore

What youth are you propping up? Jk should be traded before the season starts. Moody is jag. Podz likely tops out as an 8th man not sure how you can build an offense around that. Tjd is a rim rolling big.

But say you want to build an offense around jk. You’d need shooting bigs, which we have none of. He could barely iso sabonis.

Moody scored a pt every 2 minutes despite an ever changing role.. Podz was a 6th man and starter THIS year, his rookie season

No setup is going to be w/o flaws so pointing out mundane ones in each player isnt going to do much. The team found a way to keep Kuminga rolling, so why cant that be done again? Why cant the team run split actions for Moody, who hit them at a pretty solid rate? This is a weird argument to have, gameplanning for players' strengths is not hard to do

What is moody strengths as a scorer? Like if you’re running offense for him what type of shots are you trying to get for him? Sounds like you want more motion offense for him which you just said you didn’t want to do what’s best for Steph.

Most of his points today came off of others. He’s not creating offense for himself or others. I think he had 1 drive and 1 motion shot that he got fouled on. The rest were hustle plays or catch and shoot.

Podz was so reluctant as a scorer/shooter this year. I’d like to see him be more aggressive. He seemed to get more aggressive at the end. But he has serious limitations.

[Twinkie defense]

I think you gotta tear it down. Give Steph the option of whether he wants to stick around.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

What youth are you propping up? Jk should be traded before the season starts. Moody is jag. Podz likely tops out as an 8th man not sure how you can build an offense around that. Tjd is a rim rolling big.

But say you want to build an offense around jk. You’d need shooting bigs, which we have none of. He could barely iso sabonis.

Moody scored a pt every 2 minutes despite an ever changing role.. Podz was a 6th man and starter THIS year, his rookie season

No setup is going to be w/o flaws so pointing out mundane ones in each player isnt going to do much. The team found a way to keep Kuminga rolling, so why cant that be done again? Why cant the team run split actions for Moody, who hit them at a pretty solid rate? This is a weird argument to have, gameplanning for players' strengths is not hard to do

What is moody strengths as a scorer? Like if you’re running offense for him what type of shots are you trying to get for him? Sounds like you want more motion offense for him which you just said you didn’t want to do what’s best for Steph.

Most of his points today came off of others. He’s not creating offense for himself or others. I think he had 1 drive and 1 motion shot that he got fouled on. The rest were hustle plays or catch and shoot.

Podz was so reluctant as a scorer/shooter this year. I’d like to see him be more aggressive. He seemed to get more aggressive at the end. But he has serious limitations.

How did Podz lead out team in season plus minus? I think the main thing was that Podz was the hardest worker on a lazy tired injured old team.

[CDM_Stats]

What is moody strengths as a scorer? Like if you’re running offense for him what type of shots are you trying to get for him? Sounds like you want more motion offense for him which you just said you didn’t want to do what’s best for Steph.

Most of his points today came off of others. He’s not creating offense for himself or others. I think he had 1 drive and 1 motion shot that he got fouled on. The rest were hustle plays or catch and shoot.

Podz was so reluctant as a scorer/shooter this year. I’d like to see him be more aggressive. He seemed to get more aggressive at the end. But he has serious limitations.

Running plays doesnt = motion offense. A split action isnt a motion offense.. a motion offense is based on a loose concept that allows a ton of freewheeling and mobility, and thats not what Moody has ever done well on offense. Running a set where there's more split actions, or where he's a C&S shooter off screens.. that's just running an offensive play

Podz is probably more suited for a motion offense but he looks versatile enough that he could be in a more structured offense as well. He's the best young player we have right now so I'd probably lean into whats best for him. But if JK/Moody aren't dealt or reasonably extended, then I'd be doing whats best for them until they are traded

[RUN-TJM]

I still see a path to be competitive, but it's through defense.

I still Dray, tjd, and wiggins as a dynamic defensive core . Steph isn't that steph anymore, but he's still one of the best. With klay and cp3 not on the books, that 75M off the books. We just need to find a SG that can help tie the team together.

We need to go back to motion offense, it's what works best with steph. You can see the disconnect when jk or cp3 were on the floor, no rhythm to the offense.

I'm of the mind that its time we no longer do the things that are best for Steph, because IMO thats no longer whats best for the Warriors

Bingo!!!

[Onus]

He complements shooters.. he can drive and cut explosively which works well with good shooting teams. That's complementary

Its not fools gold, hes just not as good as people want him to be. They see quickness, which means athleticism, which means potential. Thats the fools gold. But he's a capable NBA player that can contribute to winning if he's playing around guys that fit. No different than Wiggins in that regard

If you put him on a team like the Celtics or okc maybe he’s better. But he could also become a worse Giddey because of his lack of shooting which just stymies the offense.

Who cares about better? You said he's not complementary. He is, and on plenty of teams. Any team that has a lot of perimeter shooters, because his dives either get them open looks or open up passing lanes. He's not useless.. there's a wide gulf between what big fans of him think and what he is. It sounds like you might have a wide gulf there too on him

Just need to put him on the best teams with the most shooting for him to possibly be better. It’s seriously not even a given he would be better. He literally can’t blow by centers.

I didn’t say he was useless. I said he needs a specific set up to be built around him just to have some type of value. That’s not complementary that’s building around him. And really it’s not all that sure that having shoooting at every position would make him any better when he can’t blow by centers. Cuz teams just put their centers on him and meet him at the rim which neutralizes him.

I’ve been saying I wouldn’t want to build around him. He’s not good enough to be a 1st or 2nd option. His handling sucks. His shoooting sucks. He does one thing well which is attack the rim. He also is an elite finisher. And can draw fouls. He’s also improved his ft shooting. That’s about the extent of his positives. And sure those are valuable skills. But when you can’t defend on ball or off ball, you can’t shoot to provide space for a real no 1 option. You want to call your own number when you have a goat next to you. You don’t rebound. That makes you a bad complementary player.

[SpreeChokeJob]

I know. That’s how much I don’t like jk. Hopefully the pick conveys. Hopefully we trade jk.

I don’t hate jk, he’s just not good. How can you win in the modern nba with a wing that doesn’t defend, can’t shoot or rebound

Maybe he shouldn’t be played against fives. He has always abused smaller players, but Kerr does the opposite to what is right which is stupid.

Kerr rather go small, so he’s asked to be play out of position. Give JK to a competent coach and you will regret it.

Oddly I think he’s a more likely a sg that can’t shoot than any other position. He’s a score first player that can’t shoot. He doesn’t rebound he doesn’t play help defense. He’s also pretty terrible at staying in front of players but he should be able to develop to stay in front of players because of his athleticism.

His shooting should improve over time. He’s shown growth in his few years here and is capable of learning which is the main thing. He’s improved his free throws to 75 pct which is no small feat. Some players spend their whole lives and can’t get to the 75 percent mark.

He should have been playing shooting guard and playing defense in Klay’s old role. Kerr done messed up. He didn’t understand why the Warriors were successful. The intelligent or overwhelmingly talented players covered up for his outdated coaching in the recent past.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I think you gotta tear it down. Give Steph the option of whether he wants to stick around.

Curry’s salary is so big that it is difficult to trade Curry and if we let Curry opt out only low salary bad teams can sign Curry unless Curry akes a major pay cut.

It seems wrong that Curry can not play for a contender.

Warriors having the high salary perhaps could build a contender by trading 8 1st round draft picks plus players for players.

I hate trading Klay but Klay’s salary and players and draft picks for 1 great player and Chris Paul’s salary and Players and draft picks for a 2nd great player.

2 great players, 2 role players Dray, Steph, Looney, Trayce, Kuminga, Wiggins, Podz and G-leaguers.
Everybody else gone. Payton has declined some from age and is now overpaid.

We need a star off guard. Another star, a big center and a fast defensive role player point guard

[Onus]

What is moody strengths as a scorer? Like if you’re running offense for him what type of shots are you trying to get for him? Sounds like you want more motion offense for him which you just said you didn’t want to do what’s best for Steph.

Most of his points today came off of others. He’s not creating offense for himself or others. I think he had 1 drive and 1 motion shot that he got fouled on. The rest were hustle plays or catch and shoot.

Podz was so reluctant as a scorer/shooter this year. I’d like to see him be more aggressive. He seemed to get more aggressive at the end. But he has serious limitations.

Running plays doesnt = motion offense. A split action isnt a motion offense.. a motion offense is based on a loose concept that allows a ton of freewheeling and mobility, and thats not what Moody has ever done well on offense. Running a set where there's more split actions, or where he's a C&S shooter off screens.. that's just running an offensive play

Podz is probably more suited for a motion offense but he looks versatile enough that he could be in a more structured offense as well. He's the best young player we have right now so I'd probably lean into whats best for him. But if JK/Moody aren't dealt or reasonably extended, then I'd be doing whats best for them until they are traded

I’ve been wanting to run more offense through podZ to see what he’s capable of. I want to see more side step 3s from him next year. He loves taking those on bigs and hits them at a decent rate.

Jk needs to be extended before the season starts next year. He should be traded before he gets extended. If for some reason he’s not traded then yea I can see a lot of offense being run through him.

[CDM_Stats]

Just need to put him on the best teams with the most shooting for him to possibly be better. It’s seriously not even a given he would be better. He literally can’t blow by centers.

I didn’t say he was useless. I said he needs a specific set up to be built around him just to have some type of value. That’s not complementary that’s building around him. And really it’s not all that sure that having shoooting at every position would make him any better when he can’t blow by centers. Cuz teams just put their centers on him and meet him at the rim which neutralizes him.

I’ve been saying I wouldn’t want to build around him. He’s not good enough to be a 1st or 2nd option. His handling sucks. His shoooting sucks. He does one thing well which is attack the rim. He also is an elite finisher. And can draw fouls. He’s also improved his ft shooting. That’s about the extent of his positives. And sure those are valuable skills. But when you can’t defend on ball or off ball, you can’t shoot to provide space for a real no 1 option. You want to call your own number when you have a goat next to you. You don’t rebound. That makes you a bad complementary player.

Again, better? I said useful. And he is useful. I can poke tons of holes in these arguments here if you want. Starting with how you define complementary because I dont think you're using it the same way I am

He forced stuff when the team was struggling and there was little momentum. Its why he's actually not good in a motion offense.. and if a team puts their C on him and camps that C in the middle, well then guess who the #1 screener should be for their best shooters?

If he stopped progressing, right now, he's still a useful guy on a good team that can give 15-20 minutes of potentially positive basketball. He's going to do poorly if he has to dribble or be a foundational piece. So then don't have him do those things? Just like how it was better for Wiggins not to handle as much, or for GP2 not to be considered a guard, or for OPJ to be a C, or for any countless times that a team wasn't built around those guys, but turned them into useful cogs. Or role players. Or complementary players. Which I thought were interchangeable terms

[Hoopstar23]

Zach Lavine might be the only available second option player for the Warriors to trade and not gut the roster

[Onus]

Just need to put him on the best teams with the most shooting for him to possibly be better. It’s seriously not even a given he would be better. He literally can’t blow by centers.

I didn’t say he was useless. I said he needs a specific set up to be built around him just to have some type of value. That’s not complementary that’s building around him. And really it’s not all that sure that having shoooting at every position would make him any better when he can’t blow by centers. Cuz teams just put their centers on him and meet him at the rim which neutralizes him.

I’ve been saying I wouldn’t want to build around him. He’s not good enough to be a 1st or 2nd option. His handling sucks. His shoooting sucks. He does one thing well which is attack the rim. He also is an elite finisher. And can draw fouls. He’s also improved his ft shooting. That’s about the extent of his positives. And sure those are valuable skills. But when you can’t defend on ball or off ball, you can’t shoot to provide space for a real no 1 option. You want to call your own number when you have a goat next to you. You don’t rebound. That makes you a bad complementary player.

Again, better? I said useful. And he is useful. I can poke tons of holes in these arguments here if you want. Starting with how you define complementary because I dont think you're using it the same way I am

He forced stuff when the team was struggling and there was little momentum. Its why he's actually not good in a motion offense.. and if a team puts their C on him and camps that C in the middle, well then guess who the #1 screener should be for their best shooters?

If he stopped progressing, right now, he's still a useful guy on a good team that can give 15-20 minutes of potentially positive basketball. He's going to do poorly if he has to dribble or be a foundational piece. So then don't have him do those things? Just like how it was better for Wiggins not to handle as much, or for GP2 not to be considered a guard, or for OPJ to be a C, or for any countless times that a team wasn't built around those guys, but turned them into useful cogs. Or role players. Or complementary players. Which I thought were interchangeable terms

He’s also not a good screener as well.

You’re using complementary as in you can find a role for his skill set. But that’s not what complementary means. In that case everyone is complementary because on a team everyone plays a role. Like Steph is a complementary player the same way Lester is complementary because they both carve out a role that can be useful.

To me complementary is how can you complement a no 1 or no 2 guy. How can you fit in to help their deficiencies or help them be more efficient. The easiest ways to do that are with shooting, defense and rebounding. Things jk is not good at.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Center
Big dude, Looney, Trayce, Draymond
Power forward
Draymond, Kuminga, Klay
Small forward
Wiggins, Kuminga,Podz, Klay
Off guard
Somebody very good on defense and offense, Curry,Pdz, Klay, Kuminga
Point guard
Curry, Ultra fast defensive pest, Podz

[Crazy-Canuck]

Just need to put him on the best teams with the most shooting for him to possibly be better. It’s seriously not even a given he would be better. He literally can’t blow by centers.

I didn’t say he was useless. I said he needs a specific set up to be built around him just to have some type of value. That’s not complementary that’s building around him. And really it’s not all that sure that having shoooting at every position would make him any better when he can’t blow by centers. Cuz teams just put their centers on him and meet him at the rim which neutralizes him.

I’ve been saying I wouldn’t want to build around him. He’s not good enough to be a 1st or 2nd option. His handling sucks. His shoooting sucks. He does one thing well which is attack the rim. He also is an elite finisher. And can draw fouls. He’s also improved his ft shooting. That’s about the extent of his positives. And sure those are valuable skills. But when you can’t defend on ball or off ball, you can’t shoot to provide space for a real no 1 option. You want to call your own number when you have a goat next to you. You don’t rebound. That makes you a bad complementary player.

Again, better? I said useful. And he is useful. I can poke tons of holes in these arguments here if you want. Starting with how you define complementary because I dont think you're using it the same way I am

He forced stuff when the team was struggling and there was little momentum. Its why he's actually not good in a motion offense.. and if a team puts their C on him and camps that C in the middle, well then guess who the #1 screener should be for their best shooters?

If he stopped progressing, right now, he's still a useful guy on a good team that can give 15-20 minutes of potentially positive basketball. He's going to do poorly if he has to dribble or be a foundational piece. So then don't have him do those things? Just like how it was better for Wiggins not to handle as much, or for GP2 not to be considered a guard, or for OPJ to be a C, or for any countless times that a team wasn't built around those guys, but turned them into useful cogs. Or role players. Or complementary players. Which I thought were interchangeable terms

Yeah, you guys are defining complementary differently.

JK can clearly do some things. So, he complements because you can do some things that we need like scoring and rim pressure and at the same time he doesnt really complement the team because he does do anything that really supports the team ie defending, rebounding screening etc..

So, lets say both are correct.

[svart]

Center
Big dude, Looney, Trayce, Draymond, Klay
Power forward
Draymond, Kuminga, Klay
Small forward
Wiggins, Kuminga,Podz, Klay
Off guard
Somebody very good on defense and offense, Curry,Pdz, Klay, Kuminga
Point guard
Curry, Ultra fast defensive pest, Podz, Klay
Coaches :kerr, Klay
Fukc: Klay

Kings did us a favor, very rough season to watch.

Please ask kerr to sit on a beach and shove 34 millions up his arse for the next 2 years.