The Jay Cutler Media Witch Hunt

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

^^^^I completely disagree with your #8 thru #16 order being better than Cutler. The only two guys that I would compare to Cutler from that particular group is Stafford & Schaub. I would even make the case that out of your top 8, Eli & Ryan are ESPN driven elite QBs, more than simple talent.

[RedBulls23]

I wonder if it's simply a coincidence that DJ Moore has barely seen the field after these comments from a couple months ago .

He hasn't really been playing that well. I mean other than those interceptions, he isn't playing the way the coaches want him to.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, those guys (Eli and Ryan) are ESPN-driven QBs but I'm not sure why you think they would be worse than Cutler. They are vastly superior in the stat column on the whole. This year Eli is not but the playoff stuff and his successful runs are too big to ignore.

Tony Romo has been top 5 in NFL QB ratings as recently as last season.
Rivers definitely not anymore but he was once much better than Cutler is (by the way, he still owns a better QB rating).
RGIII obviously needs more of a sample to prove it.

Is there a specific stat that I would need to prove that a lot of those guys are not at or above Cutler I'm curious to see it. If you go off of QB rating, all of those guys in the middle tier are either better this year or were vastly better than Cutler in a recent season in QB rating.

If you want to try to convince me that it's wins we are talking about, a lot of those guys have had similar success than Cutler over their careers and many of them didn't have the benefit of a top 3 NFL defense.

[RedBulls23]

I have a guy at work convinced that Cutler is not a top 16 qb. It's insane. The Cutler hate is hilarious.

That guy should immediately apply at ESPN. He may have what it takes.

(NOTE: These are not in any particular order in the classes)

For sure:
1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Rodgers
4. Peyton
5. Eli
6. Ryan
7. Big Ben

Maybe?:
8. RGIII
9. Romo
10. Vick
11. Freeman
12. Rivers
13. Schaub
14. Freeman
15. Flacco
16. Stafford

Probably not but in consideration:
17. Fitzpatrick
18. Cam with his head out of his ass
19. Luck by next season
20. Dalton
21. Palmer
22. Alex Smith


I'm not arguing every single one of those guys, but it's feasible that he's not. I agree with another poster that he has some top 5 talents.

QB rating is not a perfect stat, but find where one of those guys has not finished above Cutler for the majority of their career or are starting to show signs that they are better at it.

I can difinitively say that none of 17-22 are better than Cutler. Vick isn't better than Cutler, IMO. Neither is Freeman...not yet anyways. RG3 needs to prove himself more. Flacco has had a better line and recievers. Romo, Rivers and Schaub are about the same level as Cutler but have had much better talent around them than Cutler has with the Bears.

Honestly...Bears org should never have traded for Cutler, because once they did they just flat made a piss poor attempt of trying to build around him. And it's kind of ridiculous that after having him for 4 years, they still haven't figured out that he is at his best when he is out of the pocket.

[Kerb Hohl]

What else do you want the Bears to do for him? They have spent a ton of money on defense (keeping their guys, mega-contract for Peppers) which allows them to be an upper-tier NFC team. Now they have a top-flight WR. They also ponied up to keep a very good RB. The line has been the issue but they have been slowly addressing that.

Do you think they need Jimmy Graham or something to fully allow Cutler to crack the top 15 in QB rating? In the salary cap age, you can "build around him" better but you'll have to sacrifice Peppers for it. They also used draft picks to trade for him and to acquire Brandon Marshall so it isn't easy to stockpile talent out of the draft for him.

I know you aren't completely arguing with me here but I think a guy like Brees or Brady keeps winning and piling up stats even if Gronk or Welker or Graham go down.

[RedBulls23]

I'm talking about the offense. The offenisve line has been terrible since he got here and it hasn't gotten much better. They never are able to find a OC and are changing the offense pretty much every year he has been here. Zero consistency there.

And after 4 years they FINALLY got him a #1 reciever. Mean while he has had to throw to the likes of Devin Hester and Kellen Davis. Sorry, but they could have done PLENTY better.

And I never compared him to Brees or Brady.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm talking about the offense. The offenisve line has been terrible since he got here and it hasn't gotten much better. They never are able to find a OC and are changing the offense pretty much every year he has been here. Zero consistency there.

Agreed on the offensive coordinator part. I thought Martz should have stayed just because it seemed to really be clicking before the injury last year.

As for offensive line, yeah, they could do better. That said, their strategy is to trade away draft picks for Cutler/Marshall and sign mega-contracts for Peppers. Obviously, that is a good strategy in most regards. Peppers is definitely a huge factor in their success...but what are you going to do to improve the line? Spend every single draft pick remaining on them at the expense of other positions of strength? This is the beauty of the balanced NFL. They chose to sign Peppers and extend their great defensive players and Forte. They now have less to spend on offensive line. Parity FTW.

He has a world class defense, a top-flight WR, and a pro bowl RB. Just wondering if he's supposed to have something good at every single position on the field before they have successfully built around him? That isn't really possible in today's NFL.

Also: get rid of the ball faster and don't throw so many pressured INTs. Top 10 QBs are good at this.

And after 4 years they FINALLY got him a #1 reciever. Mean while he has had to throw to the likes of Devin Hester and Kellen Davis. Sorry, but they could have done PLENTY better.

Yet his numbers still are as bad or worse than the last few years' numbers.

And I never compared him to Brees or Brady.

Never said you did. Just saying that if you guys want it to be laughable that he's not a top 16 guy, then he's going to have to make something out of nothing in regard to supporting cast or bad offensive line sometimes. Throw Brees on the Bears and he would.

[RedBulls23]

The offensive line still sucks. We have some big holes on our line. That makes a difference in the passing game.

Other than the Packers game this year he has protected the ball. Last week I felt that the first interception he threw wasn't on him because it looked like to me that davis didn't finish the route. The second one was but it could have likely been because of his concussion.

The play calling this year has been questionable and inconsistent because yet again its a brand new offense and guy that hasn't been an OC before. And again I will say why aren't they moving him out of the pocket more?

I feel numbers would be better if there was any kind of consistency in the offense. And if guys like hester weren't forced into a role that they can't handle.

And yeah brees or brady would do better than jay but that's irrelevant because those guys are elite. And just because he's not on their level doesn't mean that he's not a top 13 qb.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Yeah, those guys (Eli and Ryan) are ESPN-driven QBs but I'm not sure why you think they would be worse than Cutler. They are vastly superior in the stat column on the whole. This year Eli is not but the playoff stuff and his successful runs are too big to ignore.

IIRC, Matt Ryan has been in the same offensive system since his rookie year with talented WRs, solid O-Line, & the best ever TE on his team for two seasons as the ultimate release valve. If he & Cutler's situations were reversed, Cutler would be a top 3 QB. Eli Manning goes into funks from time to time & his "Manning" legacy was cemented after he threw a ball up for grabs that his WR miraculously caught on top of his helmet in the SB. They are good, but neither are elite, IMHO.

Tony Romo has been top 5 in NFL QB ratings as recently as last season.

Tony Romo has been overrated since he's been in the league. The national media makes excuses for him because he plays for "Americas Team".

Rivers definitely not anymore but he was once much better than Cutler is (by the way, he still owns a better QB rating).

RGIII obviously needs more of a sample to prove it.

I agree, but you had them on your list above Cutler.

Is there a specific stat that I would need to prove that a lot of those guys are not at or above Cutler I'm curious to see it. If you go off of QB rating, all of those guys in the middle tier are either better this year or were vastly better than Cutler in a recent season in QB rating.

QB ratings & stats can not blind me to what I have seen with my naked eye. Jay Cutler was sabotaged by Jerry Angelo. He's been the most sacked QB in the league since he was traded here, while having garbage WRs & Angelo traded away the only TE threat this team had.

If you want to try to convince me that it's wins we are talking about, a lot of those guys have had similar success than Cutler over their careers and many of them didn't have the benefit of a top 3 NFL defense.

Plenty of those QBs had excellent defenses....Eli, Flacco, Big Ben, etc......

My judgement on Cutler is based on the player that I have viewed every game since he was traded here. As I said, Jerry Angelo sabotaged the kid from day 1.

Years later, Cutler is still running for his life because he has the worst O-Line in the NFL.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

GrendonJennings, why did you leave your Packers board to come here & troll Bears fans with a hit job on Cutler?

[Kerb Hohl]

I like how you're the voice for the national media here.

Here's the only consistent thing: Statistically he has been mediocre every year in the NFL. Like basically every year he's had the #20 or so passer rating.

You guys want to talk about "consistency in the offense" or "playcalling" or whatever...there is your consistency.

The media isn't making it so. He's doing it himself.

You guys are conceding a lot of things about how some of these guys are on the same plane as Cutler. That's what I'm saying. You've concocted some idea that the media is out to get him and that it is laughable that somebody should consider him outside the top 16. Well, it is easily considered so. I would be willing to bet that basically every single one of those "top QBs" or questionable guys have had a better statistical season than Cutler has ever had in his career.

He's got his precious receiving threat. He has a good RB. He has a great defense to help in regard to winning.

What the hell else does he need to crack the top 15 in QB rating?

And by the way, Biggie. Matt Ryan has a new coordinator this year (and so does Josh Freeman) and they are having career years.

[Kerb Hohl]

GrendonJennings, why did you leave your Packers board to come here & troll Bears fans with a hit job on Cutler?

Just browsing around and wanted to comment on this "it's laughable that he's not top 16" thing. Got roped into it. I'll credit the Bears for a lot of other things but I don't get why it's such a foreign thought that Cutler is not a very good QB in most people around the country's eyes. Statistics kind of back it up.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

GrendonJennings, why did you leave your Packers board to come here & troll Bears fans with a hit job on Cutler?

Just browsing around and wanted to comment on this "it's laughable that he's not top 16" thing. Got roped into it. I'll credit the Bears for a lot of other things but I don't get why it's such a foreign thought that Cutler is not a very good QB in most people around the country's eyes. Statistics kind of back it up.

I'm always open to great conversation, bro.

Just please keep that in mind if I ever visit your board. I came to your board & congratulated you guys on victories during your Superbowl year, but you guys were extremely rude & basically directed me off the board.

[RedBulls23]

Well I guess what it comes down to is that you have your mind made up and no amount of facts are going to change it. Not everthing revolves simply around stats.

And this thread wasn't started on the basis of the media saying he isn't a "top 16" QB. It was created because the media likes to act like Jay is a big **** and no matter what he does they will try to precieve him as such. He could be quite and not say anything on the side line and he is considered as a guy that doesn't care. He shows emotion on the sideline and people say he is a jerk.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

He's got his precious receiving threat. He has a good RB. He has a great defense to help in regard to winning.

What the hell else does he need to crack the top 15 in QB rating?

None of that matters if has no time to throw the football.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, I'd visit to congratulate the Bears as well...they've got an incredible defense, special teams, and a decent offense.

That said, the game isn't completely about stats but I'm wondering if any shred of evidence other than "I'm a Bears fan and I've watched him" would sway your opinion.

Yeah, the media is paid to talk about a ton of stuff and usually at certain points of the year have to fill up some time so they'll rip on Cutler for a while. I personally think he has some pretty weak leadership skills but I don't think he's a horrible person or anything.

I'm still looking for any reason that he's a sure-fire top 16 QB. Yeah, if you asked me, I'd probably put him at like #14, but the reason I felt the urge to respond is because it was apparently laughable that he's not in that list. It's very easy to write him out of that top 16 list.

[Kerb Hohl]

He's got his precious receiving threat. He has a good RB. He has a great defense to help in regard to winning.

What the hell else does he need to crack the top 15 in QB rating?

None of that matters if has no time to throw the football.

Yet Aaron Rodgers has a trash offensive line, a lesser defense (most of the time), and recently has had injuries to any RB of value and his top 2 or 3 WR. Yeah, you can tell me he has 2 or 3 good receiving targets left instead of just Marshall and maybe a healthy Alshon, but that's also at the expense of all of the other positions on the field as the Bears have spent bigger at RB, WR1, and most of the defense.

I'm not saying we should compare Cutler to Rodgers' echelon of players, but that is what a good QB does. If you're a top 15 QB, you can get by with a few injuries/shortcomings.

Would you guys trade Peppers and Forte for a good offensive line? That's what the salary cap element brings to the NFL. It's wonderful. That's the trade you'd have to make.

[BIG Game]

Jay is a good QB best we’ve ever had.. but I’m starting to come around to the idea that he’s not the kind of QB that can make us champions by himself.. We need to address the O-line grab a TE, fix our issues… And as much as it sucks to say this because of the lack of stability we probably need a new OC. Maybe Jeremy Bates can be promoted to OC so we see less turnover... either this team decided to give Jay everything he needs to hide his flaws and maximize what he’s good at or we need a new QB..

[bearadonisdna]

^ If u put Jay on the Packers, with their playcalling , whining, and the zebras catering to them, Jay would be a perrenial probowler too

[BIG Game]

^ If u put Jay on the Packers, with their playcalling , whining, and the zebras catering to them, Jay would be a perrenial probowler too

Never said he wouldnt be.. Jay is a great QB probowl level talent for sure.. i like Jay he is the best QB we ever had.. what im saying is that Jay isnt the type of QB to lead a team dispite there short comings.. i think this team needs to invest in the offense or just move on past Jay..