Harden Traded to the Rockets!

Sasaki · Post #151 » by **Sasaki** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:12 am

Fact is what are the chances that tanking gets a player like Harden anyways?

In the 2009-11 drafts, there's only two guys out of those three drafts who I would easily take over Harden - and they're both #1 picks (Griffin and Kyrie). Rubio and Cousins, maybe, but it's hardly a given.

It's not just tanking that the complainers are advocating, it's literally praying that the lotto gods go our way and nothing more. That's just a terrible strategy, especially since even the worst team only has a 25% chance at the #1.

And Max, are you seriously insinuating Lamb will be better than Harden? That's ludicrous. Lamb is barely a top 3 SG IN THIS DRAFT. Harden is possibly a top 3 SG in the league, and is without a doubt the best young SG.

90sAllDecade · Post #152 » by **90sAllDecade** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:20 am

I like this trade a lot. we're building a nice solid nucleus of youth with room to sign another max player. Lin needs to develop into at least a 17 and 7 guy over his time here and Harden will most likely be a top flight all star SG as Wade, Kobe and Manu age and eventually decline. He could possibly put up 19 - 25+ points a game with the right system and 18-20 shots a night. He already gets to the FT line like a star, can put up assists and rebound along with solid defense that could improve under Mchale. Asik might also become a true rebounding and defensive monster to be a game changer on that end of the court.

With another superstar potential player move, we could actually do some damage in the future. I'm excited.

Post #153 » by **slick_watts** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:21 am

OKC fan here. Just wanted to congratulate you guys and wish my man James Harden luck in his new digs. Harden was my favorite player on the Thunder, probably because I spent the first two years of his career ardently defending him on RealGM to those who labelled him a bust. I'll miss him a lot and I will be keeping an eye on the Rockets to monitor his progress. Some say that Harden's game is efficient because he restricts his shot selection too much - some say it's because he plays with two other stars who steal possessions from him. Guess we'll find out which it is, but I hope it's the former because that's what I've been spouting off for the last year and half.

moofs · Post #154 » by **moofs** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:17 am

Sasaki wrote:Fact is what are the chances that tanking gets a player like Harden anyways?

In the 2009-11 drafts, there's only two guys out of those three drafts who I would easily take over Harden - and they're both #1 picks (Griffin and Kyrie). Rubio and Cousins, maybe, but it's hardly a given.

It's not just tanking that the complainers are advocating, it's literally praying that the lotto gods go our way and nothing more. That's just a terrible strategy, especially since even the worst team only has a 25% chance at the #1.

And Max, are you seriously insinuating Lamb will be better than Harden? That's ludicrous. Lamb is barely a top 3 SG IN THIS DRAFT. Harden is possibly a top 3 SG in the league, and is without a doubt the best young SG.

This.

MaxRider · Post #155 » by **MaxRider** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:59 am

Sasaki wrote:Fact is what are the chances that tanking gets a player like Harden anyways?

In the 2009-11 drafts, there's only two guys out of those three drafts who I would easily take over Harden - and they're both #1 picks (Griffin and Kyrie). Rubio and Cousins, maybe, but it's hardly a given.

It's not just tanking that the complainers are advocating, it's literally praying that the lotto gods go our way and nothing more. That's just a terrible strategy, especially since even the worst team only has a 25% chance at the #1.

And Max, are you seriously insinuating Lamb will be better than Harden? That's ludicrous. Lamb is barely a top 3 SG IN THIS DRAFT. Harden is possibly a top 3 SG in the league, and is without a doubt the best young SG.

i didn't say Lamb is better than Harden
you need to understand this trade
this trade also mean Rockets is going to give Harden the max contract
most guys criticized Joe Johnson getting max being the 3rd best SG
and now you guys are happy Harden getting max being the 3rd best SG?
he may be the 3rd best SG behind Kobe and Wade but he is not top 20 players
Erick Dampier was once 2nd best center behind Shaq

Zubby · Post #156 » by **Zubby** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:45 am

I agree with Max... but I guess Im also looking at it from another view...

We pretty much traded everyone for one not quite star.

Lowry, Martin, Dalembert, Lee, Hill?... might as well add Scola

for Harden...

Martin is gonna be awesome for OKC, an amazing 3rd option.

Sasaki · Post #157 » by **Sasaki** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:00 am

MaxRider wrote:
Sasaki wrote:Fact is what are the chances that tanking gets a player like Harden anyways?

In the 2009-11 drafts, there's only two guys out of those three drafts who I would easily take over Harden - and they're both #1 picks (Griffin and Kyrie). Rubio and Cousins, maybe, but it's hardly a given.

It's not just tanking that the complainers are advocating, it's literally praying that the lotto gods go our way and nothing more. That's just a terrible strategy, especially since even the worst team only has a 25% chance at the #1.

And Max, are you seriously insinuating Lamb will be better than Harden? That's ludicrous. Lamb is barely a top 3 SG IN THIS DRAFT. Harden is possibly a top 3 SG in the league, and is without a doubt the best young SG.

i didn't say Lamb is better than Harden
you need to understand this trade
this trade also mean Rockets is going to give Harden the max contract
most guys criticized Joe Johnson getting max being the 3rd best SG
and now you guys are happy Harden getting max being the 3rd best SG?
he may be the 3rd best SG behind Kobe and Wade but he is not top 20 players
Erick Dampier was once 2nd best center behind Shaq

You're forgetting that not all maxes are created equal. Harden's max is 5 years 80 million ( and let's not forget that we have him for one more year for just 5 million or so), but Joe's was 6 years 120 million. Huge difference. If Joe had resigned with Atlanta for 5 years 80 million, I don't think that would have been that bad a deal - and that's ignoring the fact that Joe Johnson was 29 when he resigned and Harden is 23.

I have zero problems handing Harden a max deal off a rookie contract. Absolutely none. At the end of the day, Houston's rotation was too cramped and we needed to consolidate. This does it magnificently, and even makes it more consistent since while I liked Martin and hope him the best unlike most of this board, he was too injury-prone to be reliable.

MaxRider · Post #158 » by **MaxRider** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:31 am

if Harden do get the max; and Lin and Asik are still on the team, that mean Harden+Lin+Asik = $45 million in 2014-15 season

MilBucksBackOnTop06 · Post #159 » by **MilBucksBackOnTop06** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:38 am

inquisitive wrote:I hate this deal...this sucks that we gave up Lamb....why couldn't we give them a PF!

I agree...but the Thunder wanted Lamb and Parsons. You better be glad you did not give up Parsons. He is a glue guy and a hustler.Love the energy he brings.

But with Harden you don't need Lamb. One thing I will say and I do not mean to be negative. I did not like your team letting Coutney Lee go nor Goran Dragic or Scola for that matter....but it is what it is. You got great guys in the draft and in trades. Big time intriguing team.

You lost Lee but but you made that up drafting Lamb. And then then you turned Lamb a rookie and KMartin into an Olympian in James Harden, Deaquan Cook and Lazar Hayward and got a back up Center no less! Not darn bad people in Houston, not bad at all.

You replaced Lee/Martin [expiring contract] who I liked with Harden the Olympian and a top 2-3 SG at 23 in the entire NBA. No Rocket fan should really be complaining about this deal. The guy that should be worried is James Harden himself leaving a title contender over $4 mil dollars at this stage of his life. That was dumb, but that is another topic for another day perhaps...

You are worried about losing Lamb. JLamb is good and could be special one day but I am here in Milwaukee and I personally know Lazar Hayward from Marquette just a GREAT YOUNG MAN...you will love him. Lazar will and can be better then Jeremy Lamb.

Hear me clearly...I am serious. I saw him for 4 years in college closely every day. In fact, I have maybe seen him more then the Morey has. And you might look back and say, Lazar Hayward might be the steal of this deal. Mark my words.

Zar' is 6'6 220lbs NBA body and practice habits, leadership qualities, high b-ball IQ, team player, and as good a shooter as Steve Novak on his set. All he needs is time. Don't sweat Jeremy Lamb. He abused Lamb here at MU when we played UConn. Just be glad you kept Parsons.

Lazar has high character will work his tail off and has a nice shot and will be the first guy off the bench helping a teammate up and cheering them on and is a very well spoken, polite, and courteous young cat and he gets after it on the court but just as not gotten the playing time he needs.

He will have you forgetting about Jeremy Lamb if he gets some burn and finds a niche in the league and if McHale likes him which he should. Very unsung piece in this deal. I do not mean to troll....I just thought I would come and encourage you with this take on the deal.

Relax. You will like Lazar...

Sasaki · Post #160 » by **Sasaki** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:54 am

MaxRider wrote:if Harden do get the max; and Lin and Asik are still on the team, that mean Harden+Lin+Asik = $45 million in 2014-15 season

...
...
...
Seriously?

I mean, Jesus Christ, I thought it was stupid enough when Adande was still spouting this off yesterday, but I expected anyone who actually posts in this particular subforum to know better. I swear to God, I think this board needs a giant neon sign at the top spouting,

"THE CAP HIT FOR JEREMY LIN AND OMER ASIK IS NOT 30 MILLION DOLLARS. IT IS 16.9MILLION. FOR THE LAST TIME, THE AMOUNT WE ARE PAYING THEM /= CAP HIT."

My God, how can Rockets fans NOT know this at this point?

MilBucksBackOnTop06 · Post #161 » by **MilBucksBackOnTop06** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:05 am

Z3snap wrote:I agree with Max... but I guess Im also looking at it from another view...

We pretty much traded everyone for one not quite star.

Lowry, Martin, Dalembert, Lee, Hill?... might as well add Scola

for Harden...

Martin is gonna be awesome for OKC, an amazing 3rd option.

Pardon me but I would like to comment on this if I may: You are looking at this deal all wrong. I said before that I did not like losing Dragic for you nor Lee much less Lowry.

However you picked up a marquee building block back court in Jeremy Lin that was a great business move off the heels of Yao Ming that gives the team a global appeal in marketing. My Bucks took Yi Jianlian for the same reason and it flopped. Your team had Ming and now Lin. Great move.

Then you get a top 3 Olympian SG in James Harden. Come on now. Lets get real. You got him at age 23 people. You are not going to do better then that...how the heck do you top that? You don't. In fact, Kobe Bryant is on his way out and Wade is always hurt and is in the other conference so what difference does that make?

Personally I do not like Harden. I thought he was exposed in the playoffs and I am a huge Westbrook fan and all. But that is just me. I am no dummy and no hater. He is good and can be great. I respect his game. In your market no way in the world anyone should knock this deal.

You got a backup center, a buildingblock All Star caliber PG and SG and multiple assets at the 3 and 4. And as I said in the other thread I wrote...watch out for Lazar Hayward if you play him! Come to the Bucks board and you will thank me later if he gets a shot in Houston. Watch and see.

MaxRider · Post #162 » by **MaxRider** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:06 am

Sasaki wrote:
MaxRider wrote:if Harden do get the max; and Lin and Asik are still on the team, that mean Harden+Lin+Asik = $45 million in 2014-15 season

...
...
...
Seriously?

I mean, Jesus Christ, I thought it was stupid enough when Adande was still spouting this off yesterday, but I expected anyone who actually posts in this particular subforum to know better. I swear to God, I think this board needs a giant neon sign at the top spouting,

"THE CAP HIT FOR JEREMY LIN AND OMER ASIK IS NOT 30 MILLION DOLLARS. IT IS 16.9MILLION. FOR THE LAST TIME, THE AMOUNT WE ARE PAYING THEM /= CAP HIT."

My God, how can Rockets fans NOT know this at this point?

maybe because i'm not a true rockets fan
seriously
everyone has their own opinion
i don't have to agree with yours
and i hate this trade

btw Joe Johnson is still the 3rd best SG in this league

MilBucksBackOnTop06 · Post #163 » by **MilBucksBackOnTop06** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:08 am

Guy986 wrote:Atleast we no longer have to watch Kevin Martin play basketball.

Thank you based god.

Yes we will....in the NBA Finals.

MaxRider · Post #164 » by **MaxRider** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:15 am

MilBucksBackOnTop06 wrote:
Guy986 wrote:Atleast we no longer have to watch Kevin Martin play basketball.

Thank you based god.

Yes we will....in the NBA Finals.

i will LMAO if Martin make it to the final
Alston is the other most hated ex-rockets player made it to the final
better career after leaving the team

i swear i'm hearing this in my head
david stern: with the 14th pick in the 2013 nba draft the houston rockets select ...

Sasaki · Post #165 » by **Sasaki** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:20 am

MaxRider wrote:
MilBucksBackOnTop06 wrote:
Guy986 wrote:Atleast we no longer have to watch Kevin Martin play basketball.

Thank you based god.

Yes we will....in the NBA Finals.

i will LMAO if Martin make it to the final
Alston is the other most hated ex-rockets player made it to the final
better career after leaving the team

i swear i'm hearing this in my head
david stern: with the 14th pick in the 2013 nba draft the houston rockets select ...

What's wrong with getting the 14th pick/8th seed? The Jazz finished 8th seed last year, does that mean they're going nowhere? What about the Thunder in 2010?

There's a difference between what an 8th seed would have done for us last year, when players like Lowry, Martin, and Scola in their prime are the leaders and this year when Lin, Harden, and Asik would be the leaders.

Guy986 · Post #166 » by **Guy986** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:21 am

MilBucksBackOnTop06 wrote:
Guy986 wrote:Atleast we no longer have to watch Kevin Martin play basketball.

Thank you based god.

Yes we will....in the NBA Finals.

Ha.

MaxRider · Post #167 » by **MaxRider** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:42 am

Sasaki wrote:What's wrong with getting the 14th pick/8th seed? The Jazz finished 8th seed last year, does that mean they're going nowhere? What about the Thunder in 2010?

There's a difference between what an 8th seed would have done for us last year, when players like Lowry, Martin, and Scola in their prime are the leaders and this year when Lin, Harden, and Asik would be the leaders.

14th pick is best team not in the playoff
rockets got the 14th pick in the last 3 years
they traded up in 2012 but the 14th pick is still theirs
nothing wrong with 8th
but there is something very wrong at 9th seed
without Harden we are looking at top 5-8 pick
with Harden we are looking at the 14th pick again and i'm sick of it

MavfanAus · Post #168 » by **MavfanAus** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:42 am

Hey guys, obviously my name says it all though I'm not here in to troll or anything. I'm actually a fan of the Rox, mostly because of Chandler Parsons being one of my fav players in the league.

Anyway, good solid trade for you guys, sucks Morey gave up a few picks in it but I guess that's the rick one takes to get talent back.

Question, how do you think Harden/Parsons will go? I know Parsons is one of the big pieces of the Rockets future and I'm glad you guys didn't move him off in this deal. Is the Harden/Parsons combination a better long term combination than Lin/Harden?

CU_NY09 · Post #169 » by **CU_NY09** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:45 am

90sAllDecade wrote:I like this trade a lot. we're building a nice solid nucleus of youth with room to sign another max player. Lin needs to develop into at least a 17 and 7 guy over his time here and Harden will most likely be a top flight all star SG as Wade, Kobe and Manu age and eventually decline. He could possibly put up 19 - 25+ points a game with the right system and 18-20 shots a night. He already gets to the FT line like a star, can put up assists and rebound along with solid defense that could improve under Mchale. Asik might also become a true rebounding and defensive monster to be a game changer on that end of the court.

With another superstar potential player move, we could actually do some damage in the future. I'm excited.

Not sure where you came up with 17/7 but those are all star numbers. This was taken from another board, but here are the 2011-2012 stats of PG's that were in Lin's salary range. All but one weren't even close to averaging 13/7.

Player: Points / Assists / Rebounds / Steals / 3PT%
Mike Conley: 12.7 / 6.5 / 2.5 / 2.2 / .377
George Hill: 9.6 / 2.9 / 3.0 / 0.8 / .367
Devin Harris: 11.3 / 5.0 / 1.8 / 1.0 / .362
Jameer Nelson: 11.9 / 5.7 / 3.2 / 0.7 / .377
Goran Dragic: 11.7 / 5.3 / 2.5 / 1.3 / .337
Mo Williams: 13.2 / 3.1 / 1.9 / 1 / .389

People have unrealistic expectations.

I do think Harden/Lin/Parsons will make up the bulk of the scoring though.

Guy986 · Post #170 » by **Guy986** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:50 am

MavfanAus wrote:Hey guys, obviously my name says it all though I'm not here in to troll or anything. I'm actually a fan of the Rox, mostly because of Chandler Parsons being one of my fav players in the league.

Anyway, good solid trade for you guys, sucks Morey gave up a few picks in it but I guess that's the rick one takes to get talent back.

Question, how do you think Harden/Parsons will go? I know Parsons is one of the big pieces of the Rockets future and I'm glad you guys didn't move him off in this deal. Is the Harden/Parsons combination a better long term combination than Lin/Harden?