Game 7: Vikings at Packers - 10/29 - Noon

Post #321 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:12 pm

VooDoo7 wrote:
stillgotgame wrote: Cliff notes - Jordan Love isn’t the problem.

He's not THE problem. But he's definitely A problem. And you can't have a QB who's a problem.

Yea, there can be multiple problems, which there are.

But not all problems are created equal. You can win with bad WRs. Mahomes is doing it right now. You can't win with league worst QB play, which is what the Packers are getting.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #322 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:37 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
VooDoo7 wrote:
stillgotgame wrote: Cliff notes - Jordan Love isn’t the problem.

He's not THE problem. But he's definitely A problem. And you can't have a QB who's a problem.

Yea, there can be multiple problems, which there are.

But not all problems are created equal. You can win with bad WRs. Mahomes is doing it right now. You can't win with league worst QB play, which is what the Packers are getting.

On O it's probably easier to list guys who aren't the problem

Heck the piss poor play around Love might end up saving the Packers in the long run. If they are playing well it might have masked some of the Love issues. Then like 2 years from now we'll all be appalled when Love loses a playoff game because he missed a wide open throw by 10 yards and we can't get rid of him because he's been extended.

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M-C-G · Post #323 » by **M-C-G** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:00 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
VooDoo7 wrote:
stillgotgame wrote: Cliff notes - Jordan Love isn’t the problem.

He's not THE problem. But he's definitely A problem. And you can't have a QB who's a problem.

Yea, there can be multiple problems, which there are.

But not all problems are created equal. You can win with bad WRs. Mahomes is doing it right now. You can't win with league worst QB play, which is what the Packers are getting.

It occurs to me this offense is designed to set up the pass with the run in a lot of ways. The inability to run might be a bigger problem with this offense than I considered.

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stillgotgame · Post #324 » by **stillgotgame** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:52 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
VooDoo7 wrote:
stillgotgame wrote: Cliff notes - Jordan Love isn’t the problem.

He's not THE problem. But he's definitely A problem. And you can't have a QB who's a problem.

Yea, there can be multiple problems, which there are.

But not all problems are created equal. You can win with bad WRs. Mahomes is doing it right now. You can't win with league worst QB play, which is what the Packers are getting.

11th in the league in accuracy according to PFF. Is that bad?

MVP2110 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?t=j7MZvLf_juxGZHKdwrvkqA&s=19

Love was good but not great the first 3 games. We were 2-1 and he had 7TDs/1 pick. His stats have been awful the last 4 games.

Guess who didn't play the first 3 games but has played basically every offensive snap since? Watson - the Bob Ferguson of the 2023 Packers.
Who drops a bomb every game? Who get's bullied by tiny cornerbacks? Who runs the wrong plays? Who whiffs when attempting to block? Watson. Good thing is it's all fixable. He's certainly got the tools and I'm sure he's intelligent enough to be an NFL receiver. But so was Bob.

skones · Post #325 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:13 am

"He hasn't had Watson! Just wait!"

"It's Watson's fault!"

Ron Swanson · Post #326 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:26 am

If there's been a bigger disappointment in the past 4-games than the offensive-line and/or Love, it's definitely Watson.

skones · Post #327 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:37 am

Ron Swanson wrote:If there's been a bigger disappointment in the past 4-games than the offensive-line and/or Love, it's definitely Watson.

Hard to take advantage of a deep threat when you're as inaccurate downfield as Love has been and I've never been a Watson guy to begin with.

Post #328 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:39 am

Go look at Watson's catches from last season. A lot of underneath stuff, a lot of picks, a lot of getting Watson the ball in space. Haven't really seen much of that at all this season.

skones · Post #329 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:42 am

ReasonablySober wrote:Go look at Watson's catches from last season. A lot of underneath stuff, a lot of picks, a lot of getting Watson the ball in space. Haven't really seen much of that at all this season.

A lot of underneath stuff was open because teams actually had to play Rodgers over the top.

Post #330 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:45 am

skones wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:Go look at Watson's catches from last season. A lot of underneath stuff, a lot of picks, a lot of getting Watson the ball in space. Haven't really seen much of that at all this season.

A lot of underneath stuff was open because teams actually had to play Rodgers over the top.

It's definitely a factor, but I don't think it's that simple either. Lots of teams with Not Hall of Fame QBs can scheme receivers open.

skones · Post #331 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 3:33 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
skones wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:Go look at Watson's catches from last season. A lot of underneath stuff, a lot of picks, a lot of getting Watson the ball in space. Haven't really seen much of that at all this season.

A lot of underneath stuff was open because teams actually had to play Rodgers over the top.

It's definitely a factor, but I don't think it's that simple either. Lots of teams with Not Hall of Fame QBs can scheme receivers open.

Name those receivers.

Post #332 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 3:34 am

skones wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
skones wrote:
A lot of underneath stuff was open because teams actually had to play Rodgers over the top.

It's definitely a factor, but I don't think it's that simple either. Lots of teams with Not Hall of Fame QBs can scheme receivers open.

Name those receivers.

Absolutely not. There's hundreds.

skones · Post #333 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 3:36 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
skones wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
It's definitely a factor, but I don't think it's that simple either. Lots of teams with Not Hall of Fame QBs can scheme receivers open.

Name those receivers.

Absolutely not. There's hundreds.

Or those receivers are actually good maybe?

The point is that teams aren't just putting a bunch of JAGs or inexperienced receivers and just scheming them open. That's not the way the NFL works. Deception and release off the line of scrimmage plays a huge part in being able to scheme a guy open. Not only that, but Love's anticipation leaves A LOT to be desired, so when something does come open underneath, particularly over the last few weeks, he's often been late, or inaccurate.

skones · Post #334 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 3:39 am

Also worth noting, there is an MAMMOTH gap between "Not HOF" and where Jordan Love is currently.

Post #335 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 3:40 am

skones wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
skones wrote:
Name those receivers.

Absolutely not. There's hundreds.

Or those receivers are actually good maybe?

The point is that teams aren't just putting a bunch of JAGs or inexperienced receivers and just scheming them open. That's not the way the NFL works. Deception and release off the line of scrimmage plays a huge part in being able to scheme a guy open. Not only that, but Love's anticipation leaves A LOT to be desired, so when something does come open underneath, particularly over the last few weeks, he's often been late, or inaccurate.

I honestly don't know what you're arguing. If it's that a good receiver is going to be a good receiver no matter the system, I'd ask you to check out the history of NFL free agency.

skones · Post #336 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 6:26 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
skones wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
Absolutely not. There's hundreds.

Or those receivers are actually good maybe?

The point is that teams aren't just putting a bunch of JAGs or inexperienced receivers and just scheming them open. That's not the way the NFL works. Deception and release off the line of scrimmage plays a huge part in being able to scheme a guy open. Not only that, but Love's anticipation leaves A LOT to be desired, so when something does come open underneath, particularly over the last few weeks, he's often been late, or inaccurate.

I honestly don't know what you're arguing. If it's that a good receiver is going to be a good receiver no matter the system, I'd ask you to check out the history of NFL free agency.

Are you serious? I'm responding to yours. That's not at all what's being argued.

You just talked in a circle when challenged on your point. I asked for names that were consistently schemed open for non-HOF qbs. You gave zero, and instead just said, "hundreds." If there are hundreds, should be a pretty easy question to answer with examples.

What's the point you're making by saying "lots of teams with not hall of fame qbs can scheme receivers open." That the bunch of JAGs are consistently schemed open for bad QBs in the NFL by good coaches? That MLF is bad? I'd surmise that when you think about it, all of this scheming open occurs with A) QBs far better than Jordan Love and B) Receivers far better than what we have. And yes MLF is also bad.

Post #337 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 1:09 pm

Yea, I'm not arguing with you on this one. The list of bad WRs with good seasons despite playing with bad QBs is long.

Ron Swanson · Post #338 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:47 pm

skones wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:If there's been a bigger disappointment in the past 4-games than the offensive-line and/or Love, it's definitely Watson.

Hard to take advantage of a deep threat when you're as inaccurate downfield as Love has been and I've never been a Watson guy to begin with.

Sounds like you're making excuses

skones · Post #339 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:47 pm

lol, ok man. Thanks for not making any point at all and refusing to clarify your statement then I guess.

skones · Post #340 » by **skones** » Wed Nov 1, 2023 2:50 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
skones wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:If there's been a bigger disappointment in the past 4-games than the offensive-line and/or Love, it's definitely Watson.

Hard to take advantage of a deep threat when you're as inaccurate downfield as Love has been and I've never been a Watson guy to begin with.

Sounds like you're making excuses

I've been pretty consistent in saying that Watson isn't a number one, not a volume hog, and solely a big play receiver because he doesn't run refined routes and has meh at best hands. For every blatant drop, there are two routine throws Love just flat out misses on.