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Rams Leadup

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#41 » by RRyder823 » Wed Oct 7, 2015 3:31 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:What makes you guys think the Packers offered that ultimatum? Saying they would screw over the rest of the team by signing an inferior player over what amounts to the league minimum is absurd.


I guess I'd ask what makes you think Abby is worth more then a non guaranteed league minimum deal?



He's not. The question is why would he sign that idiotic deal. He's good enough to get called up on a team with one of the deepest collections of WRs. Why sign a deal that locks you into three seasons of minimum salaries? There is literally nothing to gain.


Well what he gains is being on the active roster.

He could've said "Hey how bout a one year deal?" And the Packers simply respond with "Well we feel more comfortable making it 3."

Abbys ONLY response in that situation is to say yes. As a practice squad player you accept any contract that's put in front of you. It's not like the Packers were desperate to bring him up
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#42 » by rilamann » Wed Oct 7, 2015 3:49 am

ReasonablySober wrote:That #1 seed is going to be tough to come by. Atlanta's a new team under Quinn and they have the easiest remaining schedule in the league. It might take a 15-1 kinda season to be the top seed.


Put me in the camp that says Atlanta having the easiest remaining schedule isn't that scary because Atlanta really isn't that good.

I don't think that the Falcons are a bad team or anything and they're probably better than last season's version,but I'll be floored if the Packers have to go 15-1 to get HFA because of the Atlanta Falcons.I think the Falcons probably win that division,but with a 10-6 maybe 11-5 at best record.Once the teams in the NFC south start playing each other their records will all even out a bit.I don't think there is a big gap between Carolina/Atlanta/New Orleans.I'd give Atlanta the edge as far as who comes out of that pack and wins the South because of their schedule though.

I just don't think Atlanta is good enough to take a 13-3 or 14-2 advantage with that schedule.I'll buy 10-6 maybe 11-5 though.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#43 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:28 am

RRyder823 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
I guess I'd ask what makes you think Abby is worth more then a non guaranteed league minimum deal?



He's not. The question is why would he sign that idiotic deal. He's good enough to get called up on a team with one of the deepest collections of WRs. Why sign a deal that locks you into three seasons of minimum salaries? There is literally nothing to gain.


Well what he gains is being on the active roster.

He could've said "Hey how bout a one year deal?" And the Packers simply respond with "Well we feel more comfortable making it 3."

Abbys ONLY response in that situation is to say yes. As a practice squad player you accept any contract that's put in front of you. It's not like the Packers were desperate to bring him up


Again, they're going to give an active roster spot to someone who isn't as good because Abby won't save them...nothing? Either way they're going to spend a minimum salary amount on the 52nd man in each of the next 20 seasons. Abby didn't need to take that deal.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#44 » by RRyder823 » Wed Oct 7, 2015 5:25 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
He's not. The question is why would he sign that idiotic deal. He's good enough to get called up on a team with one of the deepest collections of WRs. Why sign a deal that locks you into three seasons of minimum salaries? There is literally nothing to gain.


Well what he gains is being on the active roster.

He could've said "Hey how bout a one year deal?" And the Packers simply respond with "Well we feel more comfortable making it 3."

Abbys ONLY response in that situation is to say yes. As a practice squad player you accept any contract that's put in front of you. It's not like the Packers were desperate to bring him up


Again, they're going to give an active roster spot to someone who isn't as good because Abby won't save them...nothing? Either way they're going to spend a minimum salary amount on the 52nd man in each of the next 20 seasons. Abby didn't need to take that deal.


Your acting like it was either Abby or nobody else. It wasn't. They did it for insurance reasons. They would've been just as well served bringing up pretty much anybody else.

Your talking like Abby had ANY leverage in negotiating a deal. He didn't. And this is more a situation of bringing up a guy for insurance reasons. Not bringing up a guy they're expecting to play meaningful snaps.

Hell they could've brought up Bradford instead of him if only to have another body at ILB and nobody would've batted an eye. What does that tell you?

Once again if he wanted to be on the active roster he takes whatever deals in front of him. Your basing your opinion on the assumption that the Packers would be dead set on bringing him up or there's no other options just as good. He was just the option they chose
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#45 » by El Duderino » Wed Oct 7, 2015 5:26 am

ReasonablySober wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
Well what he gains is being on the active roster.

He could've said "Hey how bout a one year deal?" And the Packers simply respond with "Well we feel more comfortable making it 3."

Abbys ONLY response in that situation is to say yes. As a practice squad player you accept any contract that's put in front of you. It's not like the Packers were desperate to bring him up


Again, they're going to give an active roster spot to someone who isn't as good because Abby won't save them...nothing? Either way they're going to spend a minimum salary amount on the 52nd man in each of the next 20 seasons. Abby didn't need to take that deal.


Abbrederis doesn't strike me as an idiot in general and i'm sure he has an agent, so it's safe to assume that he talked this over with his agent before signing the deal. You may not understand why he did it, but i'm pretty certain that Abbrederis thought through what whatever the Packers stance was and whatever advice his agent gave before signing the contract. I doubt the Packers texted this offer and he decided, screw talking at all with my agent, i'll head right up to contract room and just sign whatever the hell you want.

Tons of players across the NFL get signed off practice squads onto NFL rosters. Getting the league minimum salary would seem the norm for pretty much all of those type of guys, but as to whether some other guys in that spot have been pushed into signing deals at league minimum over more than just one season, i have no clue and don't intend to research it.

Either way, he seems happy about it, so why do you care? None of these guys plucked off practice squads make much money their first few years in the league if they can manage to stick on the active roster. Same for undrafted free agents and 6th/7th round picks who make NFL rosters. Guaranteed money besides tiny amounts in some cases barely exists. So it behooves all of them to be careful with every dollar they earn because in the NFL financial system, these guys are the bottom feeders and they can all be one bad injury or roster crunch away from being on the street, and potentially never making an NFL roster again.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#46 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Oct 7, 2015 12:08 pm

I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#47 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Oct 7, 2015 2:59 pm

I think you guys are missing RS's point. The league minimum salary isn't the issue (any PS player would take the instant pay raise and the active roster spot) It's the number of years that he signed for. Also, none of it is guaranteed. Abby could pull his hamstring tomorrow and the Packers can say "sorry bud, we need active bodies" and he's pretty much SOL.

I'm not sure exactly how common it is to sign such a deal but I think if you had the statistics in front of you, you'd see that it's incredibly rare. I appreciate him signing such a team-friendly deal, but it's an incredibly unnecessary risk on his part. It's not like the organization would have cut him if he was healthy and said he'd prefer signing a 1-year contract at the league minimum. I'm sure that option was on the table.
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Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#48 » by RRyder823 » Wed Oct 7, 2015 3:52 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I think you guys are missing RS's point. The league minimum salary isn't the issue (any PS player would take the instant pay raise and the active roster spot) It's the number of years that he signed for. Also, none of it is guaranteed. Abby could pull his hamstring tomorrow and the Packers can say "sorry bud, we need active bodies" and he's pretty much SOL.

I'm not sure exactly how common it is to sign such a deal but I think if you had the statistics in front of you, you'd see that it's incredibly rare. I appreciate him signing such a team-friendly deal, but it's an incredibly unnecessary risk on his part. It's not like the organization would have cut him if he was healthy and said he'd prefer signing a 1-year contract at the league minimum. I'm sure that option was on the table.


No I understand his point. My point is that the Packers are/were the team with 100% of the leverage so if they offer a 3 year deal and say take it or stay on the practice squad you take it.

Your right he couldve said he'd prefer a one year deal but then you do risk the Packers moving on and bringing up a different player to fill depth. Its not like it was Abby or someone thats clearly a worse player or if Abby fills some drastic need that any number of ILBs or OTs wouldn't fill just as well as him considering it's purely for depth reasons. Hell if anything his skill set is utterly redundant with both Cobb and Montgomery healthy. It was for insurance. Im sure there are/were other guys who wouldve signed that 3 year deal and even if they dont play WR they wouldve still been filling the same role Abby is... Emergency depth.

It's more suprising the Packers offered it rather then Abby signing it actually. It shows at least some level of faith in Abby but things like that can quickly go the other way if a player of Abbys caliber, (someone who's allready been cut once), starts demanding a shorter deal. Would the Packers have gave in to a 1 year deal request? Possibly. Perhaps even probable. But it's all risk versus reward in that situation and Abby, along with most PS players I'd wager, is not in a position to take that risk.

Never said anything about cutting him. The Packers allready did that once.

Also if he pulled his hamstring tommorow and they didn't feel him worthy of hanging on to in order to see if he gets healthy later in the season the Packers would either place him on IR, where he would still collect his remaining yearly salary for what he just signed or they would have to come to an injury settlement with him in order to cut him so no its not like he wouldn't be getting paid. He's actually in a better position now if he hurts himself then he was if he was still on the PS and pulled his hammy and couldn't participate
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#49 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:14 pm

I think it's insane to think the Packers would hurt their active roster by bringing up someone who didn't deserve it out of spite over a guy not signing for an extra year at the league minimum.

But whatever.
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Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#50 » by RRyder823 » Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:19 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:I think it's insane to think the Packers would hurt their active roster by bringing up someone who didn't deserve it out of spite over a guy not signing for an extra year at the league minimum.

But whatever.


So Abbys the only possible guy that could deserve it? And yes if a player who doesn't even make the original 53 comes making any sort of demands yes the team will very likely walk away. But keep on thinking Abby had any negotiating power
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Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#51 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:24 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:I think it's insane to think the Packers would hurt their active roster by bringing up someone who didn't deserve it out of spite over a guy not signing for an extra year at the league minimum.

But whatever.


So Abbys the only possible guy that could deserve it? And yes if a player who doesn't even make the original 53 comes making any sort of demands yes the team will very likely walk away. But keep on thinking Abby had any negotiating power


It isn't about negotiating power. At all. It's about the Packers filling out their roster with the best possible players. It isn't like Abbredaris is without talent. He was taken in the 5th round he's been playing extremely well in practice. He was going to get onto the active roster at some point and with Adams hurting, he was the easy choice to promote.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#52 » by Flames24Rulz » Wed Oct 7, 2015 5:00 pm

trwi7 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/Gil_Brandt/status/651495147092504576[/tweet]


Barclay's is disastrous considering he's only played in 3 games. Yeesh.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#53 » by LUKE23 » Wed Oct 7, 2015 5:54 pm

LOL at Barclay.
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Re: RE: Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#54 » by El Duderino » Wed Oct 7, 2015 8:55 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:I think it's insane to think the Packers would hurt their active roster by bringing up someone who didn't deserve it out of spite over a guy not signing for an extra year at the league minimum.

But whatever.


So Abbys the only possible guy that could deserve it? And yes if a player who doesn't even make the original 53 comes making any sort of demands yes the team will very likely walk away. But keep on thinking Abby had any negotiating power


It isn't about negotiating power. At all. It's about the Packers filling out their roster with the best possible players. It isn't like Abbredaris is without talent. He was taken in the 5th round he's been playing extremely well in practice. He was going to get onto the active roster at some point and with Adams hurting, he was the easy choice to promote.


Who cares that he was drafted in the 5th round. He was waived and was destined to be a minimum salary player as is pretty much any player called up from the practice squad.

As for him getting no guaranteed money for the next two years, that's also going to be the case for any 6th/7th round pick or undrafted free agent who manages to stick on the active roster for 2-3 years. Abbredaris isn't alone in that.

Guys like Ripkowski, Backman, Pennel, Banjo, Elliot, Goodson, Gunter, Harris, etc are all making around the league minimum and will remain right around that salary their first few years if they can stick on the active roster, with very little to no guaranteed money to fall back on if they were to get waived at some point this year, next year, or the following year. How is that any big difference compared to Abbredaris?

Take Jayrone Elliot for example. He made league minimum last year and is only making 510K this year. Goodson, Ripkowski, and Backman only got a 25 grand signing bonus and will make basically league minimum the next couple of years if they can manage to stick on the roster. Gunter got a 1,600 dollar signing bonus and will only make league minimum if he can stay on the roster the next few years. Same for Thomas and Harris.

Abbredaris is no different than any of these guys stuck on the bottom end of the NFL pecking order financially. Not sure why you seem to feel otherwise.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#55 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Oct 7, 2015 9:04 pm

Yea, I'm convince you guys aren't getting my point.

Moving on.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#56 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Oct 7, 2015 10:00 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:Yea, I'm convince you guys aren't getting my point.

Moving on.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#57 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Oct 7, 2015 10:09 pm

[quote="ReasonablySober"]Yea, I'm convince you guys aren't getting my point.

Moving on.[/quote]
Do you have information on if the Packers do this regularly or not? Like is tolzein technically on a multiple year contract at the min? I admit I am completely blind of length of nfl contracts but this happens in the nba all the time. Guys sign 2 year non guaranteed contracts instead of ten days because they 1. Have no leverage 2. Want the team to think they are an asset. And those guys actually play a few games on a 12 man roster.

I get your point, but I just don't think Abby has any leverage. This is Ted Mfing Thompson. He has never been one to overreact to getting immediate help and always looks to the future. If he thinks he can get Abby to sign a 3-year deal just by threatening to activate someone else, I bet he does it. If I'm Abby and this is my one GUARANTEE at a full contract even just for one year, I take it over wasting a year on the practice squad. As of right now, he is the odd man out next year anyways once jordy returns so I doubt either expects this contract to last three years. If he's good enough to make the team, it will only be as fifth receiver anyways behind jordy Cobb Ty and Adams. And that's if Aaron doesn't beg for jones to come back.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#58 » by El Duderino » Wed Oct 7, 2015 11:15 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
I get your point, but I just don't think Abby has any leverage. This is Ted Mfing Thompson. He has never been one to overreact to getting immediate help and always looks to the future. If he thinks he can get Abby to sign a 3-year deal just by threatening to activate someone else, I bet he does it. If I'm Abby and this is my one GUARANTEE at a full contract even just for one year, I take it over wasting a year on the practice squad. As of right now, he is the odd man out next year anyways once jordy returns so I doubt either expects this contract to last three years. If he's good enough to make the team, it will only be as fifth receiver anyways behind jordy Cobb Ty and Adams. And that's if Aaron doesn't beg for jones to come back.


Abbredaris would make around the league minimum the next three years regardless if he went year to year or signed a three year deal as he just did. The same goes for Jayrone Elliot and other guys activated off the practice squad, undrafted free agents, and late round picks. Hell, Elliot could have had 10 sacks last year and he'd still only make the same 500 grand he's making this year.

None of these type of guys have any leverage to stop the Packers from just renewing their contracts for the next season at pocket change with no guaranteed money, regardless if they way out-produce the money they are making.

The only thing which can get them more money before free agency is under the NFL performance-based pay system. Last year Corey Linsley earned a 339,000 dollar bonus. The system typically benefits players in their first NFL contracts or minimum-salaried free-agent signings who become major contributors. Linsley was a fifth-round pick with a base salary of $420,000, meaning he almost doubled his 2014 pay.
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#59 » by HKPackFan » Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:43 am

How different is this deal from the deal he signed as a rookie after being drafted? Besides the signing bonus?
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Re: Rams Leadup 

Post#60 » by WRau1 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:32 pm

If I am a WR trying to make it in the NFL, I take the minimum for however many years the Packers wanted if I get a chance to play with Rodgers.
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