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Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks

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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1721 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:52 pm

I assume Lacy will have a good year, partly because he left Green Bay and will play with a chip on his shoulder. Then he will get dumb money and go back to his old ways.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1722 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:32 pm

Derrick Johnson agreed to cut his salary down to 2 mil for this year, if he can do that Clay should be able to cut some of his salary as well.

However, because we haven't signed anyone on D and we have 27 mil in capspace we hold no leverage.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1723 » by Jollay » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:54 pm

Balls2TheWalls wrote:The thing I like about this free agency period is that Ted Thompson did not sign anyone that would affect his draft board unless it was going to take a position off of the board all together (like he did with Tight End). He did not want to clog up running back before the draft unless it was bringing his guy back. There is no reason to go out and get someone just in case a player like Dalvin Cook falls into our lap. I think signing an ILB or a rotational Defensive Lineman would be safe, but I think that we are likely to go CB in the first round, and signing a guy that is just going to be a sidegrade to the rookie while also costing much more would be a mistake. There will be guys that could help us after the draft is over.



Allegedly we draft for 2-3 years down the road. Signing anyone to a reasonable one-year deal should have ZERO impact on who we draft.

It's Ted himself who talks up BPA and drafting for not just next year. And he's right.

Super Bowl contenders should not be plugging holes with Blake Martinez when there are countless ILB available on cheap one year deals. That of course is just one example.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1724 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:40 pm

So the Pats, who traded 32nd pick for Cooks are in talks of trading Butler to the Saints for pick 11 and signing Revis the league minimum.

The reason Revis is supposedly giving them the first shot? They were the first team that contacted him that were in the playoffs last year.

So if this happens, they will have traded pick 32, Logan Ryan and Butler for pick 11, Cooks, Gilmore, and Revis.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1725 » by ak7 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:54 pm

Profound23 wrote:So the Pats, who traded 32nd pick for Cooks are in talks of trading Butler to the Saints for pick 11 and signing Revis the league minimum.

The reason Revis is supposedly giving them the first shot? They were the first team that contacted him that were in the playoffs last year.

So if this happens, they will have traded pick 32, Logan Ryan and Butler for pick 11, Cooks, Gilmore, and Revis.


Their front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile and it's not even close/funny.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1726 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:06 pm

ak7 wrote:
Profound23 wrote:So the Pats, who traded 32nd pick for Cooks are in talks of trading Butler to the Saints for pick 11 and signing Revis the league minimum.

The reason Revis is supposedly giving them the first shot? They were the first team that contacted him that were in the playoffs last year.

So if this happens, they will have traded pick 32, Logan Ryan and Butler for pick 11, Cooks, Gilmore, and Revis.


Their front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile and it's not even close/funny.

Then why uses the same "better to move on from a player a year to early than a year to late" philosophy he is crucified for it but Belichick is considered a genius? I know Ted isn't as active via free agency and trades but he is the better drafter of the two.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1727 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:12 pm

They seriously pull off Madden type of moves where you load up your team. I'm not even mad at them, more at the teams that allow them to pull this crap. If the Saints are really dumb enough to basically trade Cooks (who they drafted in the first round a few years ago)/pick 11 for Butler (an undrafted rookie a few years ago)/pick 32 and not see they got the raw end of the deal that is sad.

I used to do that in Madden, I would trade my over the hill vets or average players about to hit free agency for picks from bad teams...then trade the picks for pro bowl players and laugh thinking "that would never happen in real life."
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1728 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:15 pm

bdpecore wrote:
ak7 wrote:
Profound23 wrote:So the Pats, who traded 32nd pick for Cooks are in talks of trading Butler to the Saints for pick 11 and signing Revis the league minimum.

The reason Revis is supposedly giving them the first shot? They were the first team that contacted him that were in the playoffs last year.

So if this happens, they will have traded pick 32, Logan Ryan and Butler for pick 11, Cooks, Gilmore, and Revis.


Their front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile and it's not even close/funny.

Then why uses the same "better to move on from a player a year to early than a year to late" philosophy he is crucified for it but Belichick is considered a genius? I know Ted isn't as active via free agency and trades but he is the better drafter of the two.


When Ted starts trading his players for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks then using that saved money to sign players better than the ones he gave up we will all support him.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1729 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:17 pm

Also, you are overlooking that they were the first team to contact Revis...it was during his legal issues....many other teams didn't even contact him until after.

Always ahead of the 8-ball. I literally said exactly this when it happened, contact Revis before his legal troubles are dropped just to get your foot in the door.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1730 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Sounds like both Revis and the Pats are interested in a reunion but it will be interesting how it all plays out because Darrelle is supposedly wanting to move to safety full time
but NE already has Chung, McCourty and Harmon and Belichick is already on record as saying he doesn't think Revis' skill set will translate to safety.


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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1731 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:20 pm

Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
ak7 wrote:
Their front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile and it's not even close/funny.

Then why uses the same "better to move on from a player a year to early than a year to late" philosophy he is crucified for it but Belichick is considered a genius? I know Ted isn't as active via free agency and trades but he is the better drafter of the two.


When Ted starts trading his players for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks then using that saved money to sign players better than the ones he gave up we will all support him.

Who all has New England traded for 1-3 picks? Butler is a RFA, Collins was traded for a compensatory 3rd or Cleveland's 4th and right now it's looking like it will be the 4th. Who else am I missing?
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1732 » by ak7 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:28 pm

bdpecore wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:Then why uses the same "better to move on from a player a year to early than a year to late" philosophy he is crucified for it but Belichick is considered a genius? I know Ted isn't as active via free agency and trades but he is the better drafter of the two.


When Ted starts trading his players for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks then using that saved money to sign players better than the ones he gave up we will all support him.

Who all has New England traded for 1-3 picks? Butler is a RFA, Collins was traded for a compensatory 3rd or Cleveland's 4th and right now it's looking like it will be the 4th. Who else am I missing?


Chandler Jones for a 2nd and Cooper off the top of my head - I am sure that there is more.

Not to mention all of the trades they've made for impact players. Aqib Talib off the top of my head was traded for peanuts.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1733 » by El Duderino » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:36 pm

bdpecore wrote:
ak7 wrote:
Profound23 wrote:So the Pats, who traded 32nd pick for Cooks are in talks of trading Butler to the Saints for pick 11 and signing Revis the league minimum.

The reason Revis is supposedly giving them the first shot? They were the first team that contacted him that were in the playoffs last year.

So if this happens, they will have traded pick 32, Logan Ryan and Butler for pick 11, Cooks, Gilmore, and Revis.


Their front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile and it's not even close/funny.

Then why uses the same "better to move on from a player a year to early than a year to late" philosophy he is crucified for it but Belichick is considered a genius? I know Ted isn't as active via free agency and trades but he is the better drafter of the two.


So what if Ted drafts better. Bottom line is Belichick puts a productive defense and offense on the field pretty much every year. That's all that matters, not sticking to a mostly rigid philosophy for roster construction. Just win baby, regardless of how a GM goes about doing it and Belichick has been in seven Super Bowls, with five titles because his teams rarely have a major flaw.
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Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1734 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:41 pm

ak7 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
When Ted starts trading his players for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks then using that saved money to sign players better than the ones he gave up we will all support him.

Who all has New England traded for 1-3 picks? Butler is a RFA, Collins was traded for a compensatory 3rd or Cleveland's 4th and right now it's looking like it will be the 4th. Who else am I missing?


Chandler Jones for a 2nd and Cooper off the top of my head - I am sure that there is more.

Not to mention all of the trades they've made for impact players. Aqib Talib off the top of my head was traded for peanuts.

I forgot about Jones which netted them their biggest return. Here are all trades since 2013, involving draft picks coming back to NE:

Jamie Collins - 3rd Rd Comp Pick/4th Rd (likely a 4th since Pryor won't net the Browns a 3rd next year)
AJ Derby - 5th Rd Pick
Jonathan Bostic - 7th Rd pick
Chandler Jones - Jonathan Cooper and 2nd
Ryan Mallett - Conditional 6th or 7th Rd pick
Logan Mankins - Tim Wright and 4th Rd pick

Attempted trade: Bryan Stork - 7th Rd (was a 4th Rd pick) but Stork failed his physical and was returned.

Not as solid as people are making them out to be.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1735 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:47 pm

El Duderino wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
ak7 wrote:
Their front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile and it's not even close/funny.

Then why uses the same "better to move on from a player a year to early than a year to late" philosophy he is crucified for it but Belichick is considered a genius? I know Ted isn't as active via free agency and trades but he is the better drafter of the two.


So what if Ted drafts better. Bottom line is Belichick puts a productive defense and offense on the field pretty much every year. That's all that matters, not sticking to a mostly rigid philosophy for roster construction. Just win baby, regardless of how a GM goes about doing it and Belichick has been in seven Super Bowls, with five titles because his teams rarely have a major flaw.

It's not about drafting better, it's about crucifying Ted when he lets an aging/declining veteran like Lang or Sutton go but then states "New England's front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile" which just isn't true. Are they the best? Yes. But their are things ours does better or on par with theirs.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1736 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:00 pm

bdpecore wrote:
ak7 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:Who all has New England traded for 1-3 picks? Butler is a RFA, Collins was traded for a compensatory 3rd or Cleveland's 4th and right now it's looking like it will be the 4th. Who else am I missing?


Chandler Jones for a 2nd and Cooper off the top of my head - I am sure that there is more.

Not to mention all of the trades they've made for impact players. Aqib Talib off the top of my head was traded for peanuts.

I forgot about Jones which netted them their biggest return. Here are all trades since 2013, involving draft picks coming back to NE:

Jamie Collins - 3rd Rd Comp Pick/4th Rd
AJ Derby - 5th Rd Pick
Jonathan Bostic - 7th Rd pick
Chandler Jones - Jonathan Cooper and 2nd
Ryan Mallett - Conditional 6th or 7th Rd pick
Logan Mankins - Tim Wright and 4th Rd pick

Attempted trade: Bryan Stork - 7th Rd (was a 4th Rd pick) but Stork failed his physical and was returned.

Not as solid as people are making them out to be.


C'mon no credit at all....Just off the top of my head.

-Trading Deion Branch to the Seahawks for a 1st before his big payday. then trading his second for Wes Welker and a 4th for Randy Moss.
-Matt Cassell (before his big payday) and Mike Vrabel (at the end of his career) for a 2nd
-Richard Seymour before his big pay day for a 1st from Oakland

Even now he is being offered 1sts for a guy who was undrafted a few years ago and will do it as long as Revis comes there. If not, he will find a plan b, c, d.....etc.


Even when he let players go for nothing, he acquired better talent...case in point Lawyer Milloy for Rodney Harrison. I don't get where this 4th round pick talk is coming from. The deal they made was if the Browns get a 3rd round comp pick (which they did) it will go to the Pats for Collin, and if they didn't they would get the Browns 4th round pick (top of the 4th round). Either way, they traded a player they weren't going to sign for a 3rd round pick, or at worst the first pick of the 4th round. Now, he could also go and sign someone like Gilmore without worrying about his comp pick net gain, he already gets his pick for this draft. This is a pattern he has lived off of, he is just as frugal as Ted, but he is smarter than Ted in almost every way. He doesn't wait until players are completely washed up and just dump them, he sees when they are still valuable but won't be soon and gets rid of them. The year before Mayo retired, Belichick knew he found his younger replacement in Hightower and had a deal in the works for him until he tore a tendon and then retired the next year. So you are right, maybe he isn't ALWAYS ahead of the 8ball but he is damn sure close to it.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1737 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:07 pm

Also, if you watch damn near EVERY YEAR the Pats trade down out of the 1st or 2nd and pick up a future 1st or 2nd. They didn't last year because it was taken from them. However, he always keeps his options open. Ted overdrafts players almost every year in the 1st round when he could have traded down and gotten future picks. Of course, I can't prove that guys like Datone Jones or Damarious Randall were going to be there.....but I am confident they would have, and if not even better for us.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1738 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:16 pm

When Ted came in and let Sharper, Wahle, Rivera go I was in the front of the line saying he had to in order to clean up Sherman's cap mistakes.

When is the last time he traded an aging vet or someone we probably won't re-sign for a 1st or a 2nd? I am hoping he gets something for Hundley this time next year or he will prove my point even more so.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1739 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:20 pm

Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
ak7 wrote:
Chandler Jones for a 2nd and Cooper off the top of my head - I am sure that there is more.

Not to mention all of the trades they've made for impact players. Aqib Talib off the top of my head was traded for peanuts.

I forgot about Jones which netted them their biggest return. Here are all trades since 2013, involving draft picks coming back to NE:

Jamie Collins - 3rd Rd Comp Pick/4th Rd
AJ Derby - 5th Rd Pick
Jonathan Bostic - 7th Rd pick
Chandler Jones - Jonathan Cooper and 2nd
Ryan Mallett - Conditional 6th or 7th Rd pick
Logan Mankins - Tim Wright and 4th Rd pick

Attempted trade: Bryan Stork - 7th Rd (was a 4th Rd pick) but Stork failed his physical and was returned.

Not as solid as people are making them out to be.


C'mon no credit at all....Just off the top of my head.

-Trading Deion Branch to the Seahawks for a 1st before his big payday. then trading his second for Wes Welker and a 4th for Randy Moss.
-Matt Cassell (before his big payday) and Mike Vrabel (at the end of his career) for a 2nd
-Richard Seymour before his big pay day for a 1st from Oakland

Even now he is being offered 1sts for a guy who was undrafted a few years ago and will do it as long as Revis comes there. If not, he will find a plan b, c, d.....etc.


Even when he let players go for nothing, he acquired better talent...case in point Lawyer Milloy for Rodney Harrison. I don't get where this 4th round pick talk is coming from. The deal they made was if the Browns get a 3rd round comp pick (which they did) it will go to the Pats for Collin, and if they didn't they would get the Browns 4th round pick (top of the 4th round). Either way, they traded a player they weren't going to sign for a 3rd round pick, or at worst the first pick of the 4th round. Now, he could also go and sign someone like Gilmore without worrying about his comp pick net gain, he already gets his pick for this draft. This is a pattern he has lived off of, he is just as frugal as Ted, but he is smarter than Ted in almost every way. He doesn't wait until players are completely washed up and just dump them, he sees when they are still valuable but won't be soon and gets rid of them. The year before Mayo retired, Belichick new he found his younger replacement in Hightower and had a deal in the works for him until he tore a tendon and then retired the next year. So you are right, maybe he isn't ALWAYS ahead of the 8ball but he is damn sure close to it.

I am not denying the foresight of the Bill Belichick. It's undeniable he's the best in the league. But to say he is miles ahead of someone like Ted is not accurate. Does he make more moves and take more chances? Yes but sometimes the best move is to not make one. On a side note, after looking back Bill seems to rape the Saints quite often on trades. You'd think New Orleans would figure it out and stop dealing with Bill but they just keep on giving up value.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1740 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:43 pm

bdpecore wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:I forgot about Jones which netted them their biggest return. Here are all trades since 2013, involving draft picks coming back to NE:

Jamie Collins - 3rd Rd Comp Pick/4th Rd
AJ Derby - 5th Rd Pick
Jonathan Bostic - 7th Rd pick
Chandler Jones - Jonathan Cooper and 2nd
Ryan Mallett - Conditional 6th or 7th Rd pick
Logan Mankins - Tim Wright and 4th Rd pick

Attempted trade: Bryan Stork - 7th Rd (was a 4th Rd pick) but Stork failed his physical and was returned.

Not as solid as people are making them out to be.


C'mon no credit at all....Just off the top of my head.

-Trading Deion Branch to the Seahawks for a 1st before his big payday. then trading his second for Wes Welker and a 4th for Randy Moss.
-Matt Cassell (before his big payday) and Mike Vrabel (at the end of his career) for a 2nd
-Richard Seymour before his big pay day for a 1st from Oakland

Even now he is being offered 1sts for a guy who was undrafted a few years ago and will do it as long as Revis comes there. If not, he will find a plan b, c, d.....etc.


Even when he let players go for nothing, he acquired better talent...case in point Lawyer Milloy for Rodney Harrison. I don't get where this 4th round pick talk is coming from. The deal they made was if the Browns get a 3rd round comp pick (which they did) it will go to the Pats for Collin, and if they didn't they would get the Browns 4th round pick (top of the 4th round). Either way, they traded a player they weren't going to sign for a 3rd round pick, or at worst the first pick of the 4th round. Now, he could also go and sign someone like Gilmore without worrying about his comp pick net gain, he already gets his pick for this draft. This is a pattern he has lived off of, he is just as frugal as Ted, but he is smarter than Ted in almost every way. He doesn't wait until players are completely washed up and just dump them, he sees when they are still valuable but won't be soon and gets rid of them. The year before Mayo retired, Belichick new he found his younger replacement in Hightower and had a deal in the works for him until he tore a tendon and then retired the next year. So you are right, maybe he isn't ALWAYS ahead of the 8ball but he is damn sure close to it.

I am not denying the foresight of the Bill Belichick. It's undeniable he's the best in the league. But to say he is miles ahead of someone like Ted is not accurate. Does he make more moves and take more chances? Yes but sometimes the best move is to not make one. On a side note, after looking back Bill seems to rape the Saints quite often on trades. You'd think New Orleans would figure it out and stop dealing with Bill but they just keep on giving up value.


One GM: 1 superbowl appearance, 1 superbowl win

The other GM: 7 superbowl appearances, 5 superbowl wins

Yeah, barring some crazy hot streak over the next 10 years by the Packers where we make the Superbowl every other year and win at least 3-4 of those.....Belicheck is more than miles, but lightyears ahead of Ted and keeps proving it every year by the moves he is making.
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