Jordan Love Thread - All Aboard the Love Train

[Kerb Hohl]

I can't say I even agreed with all of MVP's takes from earlier in the year, but dude has been out fighting the fight and posting mountains of data all year while weathering a mountain of criticism and garbage takes from a 4-5 week stretch where some people were all but ready to bury him before he even had a full 17-games under his belt. As someone who still greatly values the eye test when it comes to NFL Quarterback evaluation, I've started to appreciate more of these advanced metrics that attempt to quantify a lot of the stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and how useless things like completion % and Passer Rating have become.

The eye test always produced two conflicting impressions. From the start, Love was always extremely composed in the pocket, and wasn't making stupid decisions. He looked the part of very good NFL quarterback. The problem was the accuracy on throws over 10 yards. They looked terrible. Overthrows, under throws, throws that were 10 yards off the receiver.

I think is going to be one of those outliers. i.e. a situation where a player made a massive turn, of a magnitude that doesn't have a ton of precedent. There was an NBA player that we'd talk about on the Bucks board that also did this, but I can't recall the name. Just know that about a decade ago, if you criticized any rookie or young player, the response would be "But "x" turned into All-NBA late in his career, so you can't think Joe Alexander won't do the same"

Josh Allen is always exhibit A of, "everything but the accuracy" and then accuracy comes around. In-season is wild for Love, though.

[paulpressey25]

Josh Allen is always exhibit A of, "everything but the accuracy" and then accuracy comes around. In-season is wild for Love, though.

Next we have to sort out the receivers (and Kraft). On what other team do all these great receivers suddenly emerge as rookies? Seems too good to be true. Hopefully this all carries over to next season.

[Ron Swanson]

What's there to work out? Reed and Wicks are absolute studs, and things might have worked out perfectly with Doubs being more of your "James Jones", sometimes #2, sometimes #3 dude. Really the only thing they need to figure out is if Watson is ever gonna be a guy you can rely on to stay healthy. Having two awesome receiving TE's is never a bad problem to have.

[MikeIsGood]

Don't think I agree on overall sentiment, but just to answer the question...

I think is going to be one of those outliers. i.e. a situation where a player made a massive turn, of a magnitude that doesn't have a ton of precedent. There was an NBA player that we'd talk about on the Bucks board that also did this, but I can't recall the name. Just know that about a decade ago, if you criticized any rookie or young player, the response would be "But "x" turned into All-NBA late in his career, so you can't think Joe Alexander won't do the same"

Jermaine O'Neal.

[jute2003]

I can't say I even agreed with all of MVP's takes from earlier in the year, but dude has been out fighting the fight and posting mountains of data all year while weathering a mountain of criticism and garbage takes from a 4-5 week stretch where some people were all but ready to bury him before he even had a full 17-games under his belt. As someone who still greatly values the eye test when it comes to NFL Quarterback evaluation, I've started to appreciate more of these advanced metrics that attempt to quantify a lot of the stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and how useless things like completion % and Passer Rating have become.

The eye test always produced two conflicting impressions. From the start, Love was always extremely composed in the pocket, and wasn't making stupid decisions. He looked the part of very good NFL quarterback. The problem was the accuracy on throws over 10 yards. They looked terrible. Overthrows, under throws, throws that were 10 yards off the receiver.

I think is going to be one of those outliers. i.e. a situation where a player made a massive turn, of a magnitude that doesn't have a ton of precedent. There was an NBA player that we'd talk about on the Bucks board that also did this, but I can't recall the name. Just know that about a decade ago, if you criticized any rookie or young player, the response would be "But "x" turned into All-NBA late in his career, so you can't think Joe Alexander won't do the same"

Love had his own issues early but there was so many **** routes and just plain wrong routes being run by his baby recievers and he had no running game to speak of to take pressure off. The line also ranged from inconsistent to outright poop the first half of the season. It was damn near impossible to make any sort of judgment on his passes without knowing where everyone was actually supposed to be.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I can't say I even agreed with all of MVP's takes from earlier in the year, but dude has been out fighting the fight and posting mountains of data all year while weathering a mountain of criticism and garbage takes from a 4-5 week stretch where some people were all but ready to bury him before he even had a full 17-games under his belt. As someone who still greatly values the eye test when it comes to NFL Quarterback evaluation, I've started to appreciate more of these advanced metrics that attempt to quantify a lot of the stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and how useless things like completion % and Passer Rating have become.

The eye test always produced two conflicting impressions. From the start, Love was always extremely composed in the pocket, and wasn't making stupid decisions. He looked the part of very good NFL quarterback. The problem was the accuracy on throws over 10 yards. They looked terrible. Overthrows, under throws, throws that were 10 yards off the receiver.

I think is going to be one of those outliers. i.e. a situation where a player made a massive turn, of a magnitude that doesn't have a ton of precedent. There was an NBA player that we'd talk about on the Bucks board that also did this, but I can't recall the name. Just know that about a decade ago, if you criticized any rookie or young player, the response would be "But "x" turned into All-NBA late in his career, so you can't think Joe Alexander won't do the same"

Love had his own issues early but there was so many **** routes and just plain wrong routes being run by his baby recievers and he had no running game to speak of to take pressure off. The line also ranged from inconsistent to outright poop the first half of the season. It was damn near impossible to make any sort of judgment on his passes without knowing where everyone was actually supposed to be.

I thought MLF called straight up scared games where he didn't seem to trust anyone on the O for a time this season. Way too many forced runs and dink and dunk BS.

But it's revisionist history to blame all loves struggles on this. He did just flat out miss his spot too often. He was much better over the last 9 games (except for the NY game where he played like he took mushrooms).

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[paulpressey25]

Jermaine O'Neal.

Thank you! I knew we had that outlier from back in the day.

[midranger]

Jermaine O'Neal.

Thank you! I knew we had that outlier from back in the day.

Yup. JON and Steve Nash were the classic examples. Zach Randolph to a lesser extent.

[paulpressey25]

Yup. JON and Steve Nash were the classic examples. Zach Randolph to a lesser extent.

"I'm telling you, we can't give up on Marcus Haislip. Look at what JO has done with the Pacers after being in the league five years"

[Ayt]

Crazy, MVP caliber play from Love over the final 8 games.

[M-C-G]

Crazy, MVP caliber play from Love over the final 8 games.

But we traded up for him. A fourth! A Fourth!


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[WeekapaugGroove]

Yup. JON and Steve Nash were the classic examples. Zach Randolph to a lesser extent.

"I'm telling you, we can't give up on Marcus Haislip. Look at what JO has done with the Pacers after being in the league five years"

JO is kind of a fun Love comp because they both sat longer than usual because of vets ahead of them.

They are also both cases where you can argue sitting was good for them or it simply delayed them being good. Since you can't go back and play out the opposite scenaro whichever side you fall on you can argue it and never be proven wrong

Like I'm an anti sitting multiple years guy (1 year is fine for some guys and was probably very important in 2020 with a messed up camp) so I can point to Love playing better this year the more he played and use that as an argument he should have played sooner. But someone can argue the opposite and no one will ever know who's right.

Truths probably somewhere in the middle but what fun is that optinion on a message board.

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[paulpressey25]

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[LikeABosh]

Josh Allen is always exhibit A of, "everything but the accuracy" and then accuracy comes around. In-season is wild for Love, though.

Next we have to sort out the receivers (and Kraft). On what other team do all these great receivers suddenly emerge as rookies? Seems too good to be true. Hopefully this all carries over to next season.

I was thinking the same thing. It's bizarre to have this many young contributors. Like 2 go out and the 2 that come in don't miss a beat. And it's happened over and over again down to guys like Malik Heath and Bo Melton lol

I do think Reed is the real deal at least

[MVP2110]

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[LUKE23]

Really good discussion this morning on Wilde & Tauscher about the obsession of trying to build a contender while a QB is on a rookie contract. The main point was that so few QB are ready from day 1 to walk into an organization and turn it into a winning one without development. And additionally, there are many cases where throwing guys out there too early ruined their career and/or sent the organization another direction within a couple years. Bears are likely going to have to move onto young QB #3 in seven seasons.

I fully believe had they thrown Love out in year 1 or year 2 he would have been a disaster, and then who knows where we end up. Obviously, team situation factors in, as does coaching, but it sure seems like the Packers have it down. Will it be more challenging once Love extends? Yes. But the way we hammer the draft and have a high hit percentage, we can definitely do it.

[Ron Swanson]

Really good discussion this morning on Wilde & Tauscher about the obsession of trying to build a contender while a QB is on a rookie contract. The main point was that so few QB are ready from day 1 to walk into an organization and turn it into a winning one without development. And additionally, there are many cases where throwing guys out there too early ruined their career and/or sent the organization another direction within a couple years. Bears are likely going to have to move onto young QB #3 in seven seasons.

I fully believe had they thrown Love out in year 1 or year 2 he would have been a disaster, and then who knows where we end up. Obviously, team situation factors in, as does coaching, but it sure seems like the Packers have it down. Will it be more challenging once Love extends? Yes. But the way we hammer the draft and have a high hit percentage, we can definitely do it.

Louder for the people in the back aka a large segment of this board that did nothing but use this absurd narrative as a means to label it a dumb pick cuz "Something something timelines". On an organizational level, you couldn't ask for a better outcome than this. If the arrow keeps pointing up, our "rough transition period" between eras was basically one 8-9 season of mediocre football. Pretty incredible.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Really good discussion this morning on Wilde & Tauscher about the obsession of trying to build a contender while a QB is on a rookie contract. The main point was that so few QB are ready from day 1 to walk into an organization and turn it into a winning one without development. And additionally, there are many cases where throwing guys out there too early ruined their career and/or sent the organization another direction within a couple years. Bears are likely going to have to move onto young QB #3 in seven seasons.

I fully believe had they thrown Love out in year 1 or year 2 he would have been a disaster, and then who knows where we end up. Obviously, team situation factors in, as does coaching, but it sure seems like the Packers have it down. Will it be more challenging once Love extends? Yes. But the way we hammer the draft and have a high hit percentage, we can definitely do it.

Louder for the people in the back aka a large segment of this board that did nothing but use this absurd narrative as a means to label it a dumb pick cuz "Something something timelines". On an organizational level, you couldn't ask for a better outcome than this. If the arrow keeps pointing up, our "rough transition period" between eras was basically one 8-9 season of mediocre football. Pretty incredible.

Did it hurt CJ Stoud to play this year? Also Love sure seemed to get better the more he you know actually played football this year. For all we know if he starts earlier maybe he wins an MVP already and the Packers are SB favorites.

Now I will conceded that very specific for Love and 2020 I think that would have been a particularly hard year to start from day 1 although Burrow has been pretty damn good so maybe I'm overstating even that aspect.

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[MickeyDavis]

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[RRyder823]

Really good discussion this morning on Wilde & Tauscher about the obsession of trying to build a contender while a QB is on a rookie contract. The main point was that so few QB are ready from day 1 to walk into an organization and turn it into a winning one without development. And additionally, there are many cases where throwing guys out there too early ruined their career and/or sent the organization another direction within a couple years. Bears are likely going to have to move onto young QB #3 in seven seasons.

I fully believe had they thrown Love out in year 1 or year 2 he would have been a disaster, and then who knows where we end up. Obviously, team situation factors in, as does coaching, but it sure seems like the Packers have it down. Will it be more challenging once Love extends? Yes. But the way we hammer the draft and have a high hit percentage, we can definitely do it.

Louder for the people in the back aka a large segment of this board that did nothing but use this absurd narrative as a means to label it a dumb pick cuz "Something something timelines". On an organizational level, you couldn't ask for a better outcome than this. If the arrow keeps pointing up, our "rough transition period" between eras was basically one 8-9 season of mediocre football. Pretty incredible.

Did it hurt CJ Stoud to play this year? Also Love sure seemed to get better the more he you know actually played football this year. For all we know if he starts earlier maybe he wins an MVP already and the Packers are SB favorites.

Now I will conceded that very specific for Love and 2020 I think that would have been a particularly hard year to start from day 1 although Burrow has been pretty damn good so maybe I'm overstating even that aspect.

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For every Stroud there's about 4 Fields that aren't given a chance to gain confidence in a system and/or rework theit mechanics.

I'll flat out say had Rodgers been thrown to the fire he never becomes MVP Rodgers and when you look at Love I see much of the same.

When your building up mechanics in a player and they're forced to play the moment they get pressed many end up reverting back to the original way they did things and it can make the gains made in practice irrelevant if they haven't become second nature to them yet. We see that in Love with how his foot work has a habit of going to hell and reverting back to his college ways in certain situations.

Some players can work through these issues while playing. That's undeniable. It also shouldn't be denied there's a ton of QBs that have been absolutely ruined and discarded because they were forced into playing before they should have

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