Packers News, Transactions, Trades

[MickeyDavis]

Voluntary off season program began today.

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[ReasonablySober]

I truly can't think of a dumber conversation than what Tom is going to get paid. I feel so bad over this one. He's going to be a Packer and he'll play wherever the Packers want him to. Literally all that matters.

[MVP2110]

I truly can't think of a dumber conversation than what Tom is going to get paid. I feel so bad over this one. He's going to be a Packer and he'll play wherever the Packers want him to. Literally all that matters.

It's a worthy discussion because in order to win teams have to maximize their assets. Paying Zach Tom 27% over market rate to play Center would not be maximizing assets in any way shape or form. And that's not a knock against Zach Tom. Paying any player 27% over the market would be a bad idea. It's just one reason why moving Tom to Center would be a bad idea.

[ReasonablySober]

I truly can't think of a dumber conversation than what Tom is going to get paid. I feel so bad over this one. He's going to be a Packer and he'll play wherever the Packers want him to. Literally all that matters.

It's a worthy discussion but in order to win teams have to maximize their assets. Paying Zach Tom 27% over market rate to play Center would not be maximizing assets in way shape or form. And that's not a knock against Zach Tom. Paying any player 27% over the market would be a bad idea.

Frank Ragnow's total guaranteed money: $42 million
The average total guaranteed contract from the #6-#10 RT: $37.5

If the Packers believe Tom is a potential HOF center and want to pay him like the NFL's best center, everyone wins. Tom gets more cash than a good but not elite right tackle, but gets top of the line center money.

Meanwhile the Packers can reset the RT position with someone on a rookie deal, potentially one signed to a five year contract and not a four year deal.

[MVP2110]

I truly can't think of a dumber conversation than what Tom is going to get paid. I feel so bad over this one. He's going to be a Packer and he'll play wherever the Packers want him to. Literally all that matters.

It's a worthy discussion but in order to win teams have to maximize their assets. Paying Zach Tom 27% over market rate to play Center would not be maximizing assets in way shape or form. And that's not a knock against Zach Tom. Paying any player 27% over the market would be a bad idea.

Frank Ragnow's total guaranteed money: $42 million
The average total guaranteed contract from the #6-#10 RT: $37.5

If the Packers believe Tom is a potential HOF center and want to pay him like the NFL's best center, everyone wins. Tom gets more cash than a good but not elite right tackle, but gets top of the line center money.

Meanwhile the Packers can reset the RT position with someone on a rookie deal, potentially one signed to a five year contract and not a four year deal.

Frank Ragnow is due 13.5 million this year, that's below 25 current Right Tackles. Zero chance Zach Tom would accept that contract. If the Packers want Zach Tom at center they are looking at exploding the current market to do it. Or they could take JPJ or Barton(or someone on day 2). Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce. The market for centers isn't growing like it is for guards.

The NFL clearly does not value centers so I'm not sure why we would want to move Zach Tom who is a top 5ish RT to a much less valuable position so that we could draft a RT who might be as good but also might be worse.

[ReasonablySober]

It's a worthy discussion but in order to win teams have to maximize their assets. Paying Zach Tom 27% over market rate to play Center would not be maximizing assets in way shape or form. And that's not a knock against Zach Tom. Paying any player 27% over the market would be a bad idea.

Frank Ragnow's total guaranteed money: $42 million
The average total guaranteed contract from the #6-#10 RT: $37.5

If the Packers believe Tom is a potential HOF center and want to pay him like the NFL's best center, everyone wins. Tom gets more cash than a good but not elite right tackle, but gets top of the line center money.

Meanwhile the Packers can reset the RT position with someone on a rookie deal, potentially one signed to a five year contract and not a four year deal.

Frank Ragnow is due 13.5 million this year, that's below 25 current Right Tackles. Zero chance Zach Tom would accept that contract. If the Packers want Zach Tom at center they are looking at exploding the current market to do it. Or they could take JPJ or Barton(or someone on day 2). Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce. The market for centers isn't growing like it is for guards.

The NFL clearly does not value centers so I'm not sure why we would want to move Zach Tom who is a top 5ish RT to a much less valuable position so that we could draft a RT who might be as good but also might be worse.

Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts.

[MVP2110]

Frank Ragnow's total guaranteed money: $42 million
The average total guaranteed contract from the #6-#10 RT: $37.5

If the Packers believe Tom is a potential HOF center and want to pay him like the NFL's best center, everyone wins. Tom gets more cash than a good but not elite right tackle, but gets top of the line center money.

Meanwhile the Packers can reset the RT position with someone on a rookie deal, potentially one signed to a five year contract and not a four year deal.

Frank Ragnow is due 13.5 million this year, that's below 25 current Right Tackles. Zero chance Zach Tom would accept that contract. If the Packers want Zach Tom at center they are looking at exploding the current market to do it. Or they could take JPJ or Barton(or someone on day 2). Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce. The market for centers isn't growing like it is for guards.

The NFL clearly does not value centers so I'm not sure why we would want to move Zach Tom who is a top 5ish RT to a much less valuable position so that we could draft a RT who might be as good but also might be worse.

Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts.

That's just not true. Guarenteed $ is obviously part of the equation but hardly the only thing that matters, the rest of the contract matters too unless you're planning on cutting a guy to get out of the non guarentees in which case it was already a bad deal most likely.

Look at the Xavier McKinney contract as an example. He only got 23 million guarenteed but he's actually going to bring in over 25 million in cash in the 1st season alone. Assuming he doesn't get cut after the 1st season we're looking at giving McKinney another 11.8 million in 2025 & 13.3 million the year after. Sure the deal might get restructured at some point to adjust the cap hit but McKinney is still going to get that money unless he's a total bust.

[ReasonablySober]

Frank Ragnow is due 13.5 million this year, that's below 25 current Right Tackles. Zero chance Zach Tom would accept that contract. If the Packers want Zach Tom at center they are looking at exploding the current market to do it. Or they could take JPJ or Barton(or someone on day 2). Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce. The market for centers isn't growing like it is for guards.

The NFL clearly does not value centers so I'm not sure why we would want to move Zach Tom who is a top 5ish RT to a much less valuable position so that we could draft a RT who might be as good but also might be worse.

Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts.

That's just not true. Guarenteed $ is obviously part of the equation but hardly the only thing that matters, the rest of the contract matters too unless you're planning on cutting a guy to get out of the non guarentees in which case it was already a bad deal most likely.

Look at the Xavier McKinney contract as an example. He only got 23 million guarenteed but he's actually going to bring in over 25 million in cash in the 1st season alone. Assuming he doesn't get cut after the 1st season we're looking at giving McKinney another 11.8 million in 2025 & 13.3 million the year after. Sure the deal might get restructured at some point to adjust the cap hit but McKinney is still going to get that money unless he's a total bust.

Total guaranteed money is still a hell of a lot better than salary per year.

Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce.

You really think Kelce's one year, $14.5 million deal means he's being paid more than Ragnow's deal that pays him $42 million guaranteed? Because in his one year he earned $750 thousand more on average? Come on.

[MVP2110]

Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts.

That's just not true. Guarenteed $ is obviously part of the equation but hardly the only thing that matters, the rest of the contract matters too unless you're planning on cutting a guy to get out of the non guarentees in which case it was already a bad deal most likely.

Look at the Xavier McKinney contract as an example. He only got 23 million guarenteed but he's actually going to bring in over 25 million in cash in the 1st season alone. Assuming he doesn't get cut after the 1st season we're looking at giving McKinney another 11.8 million in 2025 & 13.3 million the year after. Sure the deal might get restructured at some point to adjust the cap hit but McKinney is still going to get that money unless he's a total bust.

Total guaranteed money is still a hell of a lot better than salary per year.

Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce.

You really think Kelce's one year, $14.5 million deal means he's being paid more than Ragnow's deal that pays him $42 million guaranteed? Because in his one year he earned $750 thousand more on average? Come on.

Ignoring everything in a contract other than guarentees misses crucial context. Zach Tom is not going to accept a contract that gives him the cash equivalent of the 25th highest paid Tackle. What players care about is how much cash they are actually taking home, they don't particularly care how a team structures a deal.

[ReasonablySober]

That's just not true. Guarenteed $ is obviously part of the equation but hardly the only thing that matters, the rest of the contract matters too unless you're planning on cutting a guy to get out of the non guarentees in which case it was already a bad deal most likely.

Look at the Xavier McKinney contract as an example. He only got 23 million guarenteed but he's actually going to bring in over 25 million in cash in the 1st season alone. Assuming he doesn't get cut after the 1st season we're looking at giving McKinney another 11.8 million in 2025 & 13.3 million the year after. Sure the deal might get restructured at some point to adjust the cap hit but McKinney is still going to get that money unless he's a total bust.

Total guaranteed money is still a hell of a lot better than salary per year.

Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce.

You really think Kelce's one year, $14.5 million deal means he's being paid more than Ragnow's deal that pays him $42 million guaranteed? Because in his one year he earned $750 thousand more on average? Come on.

Ignoring everything in a contract other than guarentees misses crucial context. Zach Tom is not going to accept a contract that gives him the cash equivalent of the 25th highest paid Tackle. What players care about is how much cash they are actually taking home, they don't particularly care how a team structures a deal.

That's literally what I'm saying. Total cash vs whatever cap hit the team is using. Go look how much the top earning center makes, then go look up how much the 6th highest earning right tackle makes.

[MVP2110]

Total guaranteed money is still a hell of a lot better than salary per year.



You really think Kelce's one year, $14.5 million deal means he's being paid more than Ragnow's deal that pays him $42 million guaranteed? Because in his one year he earned $750 thousand more on average? Come on.

Ignoring everything in a contract other than guarentees misses crucial context. Zach Tom is not going to accept a contract that gives him the cash equivalent of the 25th highest paid Tackle. What players care about is how much cash they are actually taking home, they don't particularly care how a team structures a deal.

That's literally what I'm saying. Total cash vs whatever cap hit the team is using. Go look how much the top earning center makes, then go look up how much the 6th highest earning right tackle makes.

No, you were talking about what players got "guarenteed". That's very different than how much cash each player is actually taking home. Right Tackles make significantly more than centers in every metric. Last year Jason Kelce got 14.5 million in cash which was the most of any center. But as pointed out that was only a 1 year deal, after him it's Ryan Jensen took home 12.5 million in cash. 9 Right Tackles took home more than 14.5 million in cash, if you want to discount the Kelce deal because it was only 1 year than 12 Right Tackles brought home more cash than Ryan Jensen did. The 6th highest paid RT in cash last year was Taylor Moton at 17.8 million, well over any center from last season.

[ReasonablySober]

Ignoring everything in a contract other than guarentees misses crucial context. Zach Tom is not going to accept a contract that gives him the cash equivalent of the 25th highest paid Tackle. What players care about is how much cash they are actually taking home, they don't particularly care how a team structures a deal.

That's literally what I'm saying. Total cash vs whatever cap hit the team is using. Go look how much the top earning center makes, then go look up how much the 6th highest earning right tackle makes.

No, you were talking about what players got "guarenteed". That's very different than how much cash each player is actually taking home. Right Tackles make significantly more than centers in every metric. Last year Jason Kelce got 14.5 million in cash which was the most of any center. But as pointed out that was only a 1 year deal, after him it's Ryan Jensen took home 12.5 million in cash. 9 Right Tackles took home more than 14.5 million in cash, if you want to discount the Kelce deal because it was only 1 year than 12 Right Tackles brought home more cash than Ryan Jensen did. The 6th highest paid RT in cash last year was Taylor Moton at 17.8 million, well over any center from last season.

Yearly cash DOES NOT MATTER to players. If it did then every player would love being franchised.

**** man, this is basic.

[MVP2110]

That's literally what I'm saying. Total cash vs whatever cap hit the team is using. Go look how much the top earning center makes, then go look up how much the 6th highest earning right tackle makes.

No, you were talking about what players got "guarenteed". That's very different than how much cash each player is actually taking home. Right Tackles make significantly more than centers in every metric. Last year Jason Kelce got 14.5 million in cash which was the most of any center. But as pointed out that was only a 1 year deal, after him it's Ryan Jensen took home 12.5 million in cash. 9 Right Tackles took home more than 14.5 million in cash, if you want to discount the Kelce deal because it was only 1 year than 12 Right Tackles brought home more cash than Ryan Jensen did. The 6th highest paid RT in cash last year was Taylor Moton at 17.8 million, well over any center from last season.

Yearly cash DOES NOT MATTER to players. If it did then every player would love being franchised.

**** man, this is basic.

Yearly cash by itself I agree. But you can't just look at guarentees and go off that because it ignores crucial context about how much a player is actually taking home. And when you look at how much actual cash gets taken home Right Tackles take home considerably more than centers.

[dbrodz7]

That's literally what I'm saying. Total cash vs whatever cap hit the team is using. Go look how much the top earning center makes, then go look up how much the 6th highest earning right tackle makes.

No, you were talking about what players got "guarenteed". That's very different than how much cash each player is actually taking home. Right Tackles make significantly more than centers in every metric. Last year Jason Kelce got 14.5 million in cash which was the most of any center. But as pointed out that was only a 1 year deal, after him it's Ryan Jensen took home 12.5 million in cash. 9 Right Tackles took home more than 14.5 million in cash, if you want to discount the Kelce deal because it was only 1 year than 12 Right Tackles brought home more cash than Ryan Jensen did. The 6th highest paid RT in cash last year was Taylor Moton at 17.8 million, well over any center from last season.

Yearly cash DOES NOT MATTER to players. If it did then every player would love being franchised.

**** man, this is basic.

But franchise tags are also guaranteed!!!

[MVP2110]

The largest ever Center contract was to Corey Linsley for 62.5 million, for a Right Tackle it went to Ryan Ramczyk for 96.5 million(and Penei Sewell will likely beat this sooner rather than later)

[ReasonablySober]

No, you were talking about what players got "guarenteed". That's very different than how much cash each player is actually taking home. Right Tackles make significantly more than centers in every metric. Last year Jason Kelce got 14.5 million in cash which was the most of any center. But as pointed out that was only a 1 year deal, after him it's Ryan Jensen took home 12.5 million in cash. 9 Right Tackles took home more than 14.5 million in cash, if you want to discount the Kelce deal because it was only 1 year than 12 Right Tackles brought home more cash than Ryan Jensen did. The 6th highest paid RT in cash last year was Taylor Moton at 17.8 million, well over any center from last season.

Yearly cash DOES NOT MATTER to players. If it did then every player would love being franchised.

**** man, this is basic.

Yearly cash by itself I agree. But you can't just look at guarentees and go off that because it ignores crucial context about how much a player is actually taking home. And when you look at how much actual cash gets taken home Right Tackles take home considerably more than centers.

The very best RT takes home more total than the very best center. That does not matter in Tom's case, because he isn't the very best right tackle.

[MVP2110]

Yearly cash DOES NOT MATTER to players. If it did then every player would love being franchised.

**** man, this is basic.

Yearly cash by itself I agree. But you can't just look at guarentees and go off that because it ignores crucial context about how much a player is actually taking home. And when you look at how much actual cash gets taken home Right Tackles take home considerably more than centers.

The very best RT takes home more total than the very best center. That does not matter in Tom's case, because he isn't the very best right tackle.

Last year 9 Right Tackles took home more than a single center in cash. If you go by APY instead of Yearly cash than 13 Right Tackles make more than the highest center. The highest paid centers don't even come close to making top 5 Right Tackle money which is what Zach Tom would want & deserve

[ReasonablySober]

The largest ever Center contract was to Corey Linsley for 62.5 million, for a Right Tackle it went to Ryan Ramczyk for 96.5 million(and Penei Sewell will likely beat this sooner rather than later)

Now you're using Total Contract Value, another number that doesn't matter because someone like Ramczyk will be cut long before he ever sees $96.5 million.

[ReasonablySober]

Yearly cash by itself I agree. But you can't just look at guarentees and go off that because it ignores crucial context about how much a player is actually taking home. And when you look at how much actual cash gets taken home Right Tackles take home considerably more than centers.

The very best RT takes home more total than the very best center. That does not matter in Tom's case, because he isn't the very best right tackle.

Last year 9 Right Tackles took home more than a single center in cash. If you go by APY instead of Yearly cash than 13 Right Tackles make more than the highest center. The highest paid centers don't even come close to making top 5 Right Tackle money which is what Zach Tom would want & deserve

Who's being paid more? The guy with one year and $14 million guaranteed? Or the guy being paid $41 million guaranteed over three years?

[MVP2110]

The very best RT takes home more total than the very best center. That does not matter in Tom's case, because he isn't the very best right tackle.

Last year 9 Right Tackles took home more than a single center in cash. If you go by APY instead of Yearly cash than 13 Right Tackles make more than the highest center. The highest paid centers don't even come close to making top 5 Right Tackle money which is what Zach Tom would want & deserve

Who's being paid more? The guy with one year and $14 million guaranteed? Or the guy being paid $41 million guaranteed over three years?

That's why I used both yearly cash & APY, neither of which puts the highest paid center anywhere near Right Tackle money.