Packers News, Transactions, Trades

[TroyD92]

This draft in particular I’m not expecting anything. Think Gute set himself up to be flexible and pick the guy they like the most (not that it’s stopped him in the past)

[RRyder823]

Frank Ragnow's total guaranteed money: $42 million
The average total guaranteed contract from the #6-#10 RT: $37.5

If the Packers believe Tom is a potential HOF center and want to pay him like the NFL's best center, everyone wins. Tom gets more cash than a good but not elite right tackle, but gets top of the line center money.

Meanwhile the Packers can reset the RT position with someone on a rookie deal, potentially one signed to a five year contract and not a four year deal.

Frank Ragnow is due 13.5 million this year, that's below 25 current Right Tackles. Zero chance Zach Tom would accept that contract. If the Packers want Zach Tom at center they are looking at exploding the current market to do it. Or they could take JPJ or Barton(or someone on day 2). Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce. The market for centers isn't growing like it is for guards.

The NFL clearly does not value centers so I'm not sure why we would want to move Zach Tom who is a top 5ish RT to a much less valuable position so that we could draft a RT who might be as good but also might be worse.

Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts.

I'll never understand how this line of thinking ingrained itself in the minds of so many fans.

Guaranteed money is obviously a big factor, but it simply isn't true that it's the only thing that matters

Cap hits are what matter both for when they're on the roster and if the team wants to move on. Yes, guaranteed money is a big part of that (exponentially so for the latter) buts it's not the "only thing that matters"

Even with guarenteed money people should look more at how it's being distributed in the contract cause that actually matters a hell of a lot more then the total amount

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[ReasonablySober]

Frank Ragnow is due 13.5 million this year, that's below 25 current Right Tackles. Zero chance Zach Tom would accept that contract. If the Packers want Zach Tom at center they are looking at exploding the current market to do it. Or they could take JPJ or Barton(or someone on day 2). Ragnow also signed that deal in 2021 and nobody has beaten it except Jason Kelce. The market for centers isn't growing like it is for guards.

The NFL clearly does not value centers so I'm not sure why we would want to move Zach Tom who is a top 5ish RT to a much less valuable position so that we could draft a RT who might be as good but also might be worse.

Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts.

I'll never understand how this line of thinking ingrained itself in the minds of so many fans.

Guaranteed money is obviously a big factor, but it simply isn't true.

Cap hits are what matter both for when they're on the roster and if the team wants to move on. Yes, guaranteed money is a big part of that (exponentially so for the latter) buts it's not the "only thing that matters"

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Cap hits matter to the team. But they make no difference to the player. Guys and their agents all know the true value of the deal they're signing. Ryan Ramczyk knows that by signing his deal he's going to get cut before that last $30 million kicks in.

It's an ego boost thing for the players and a big shiny number agents can tell other potential clients. It means nothing in practical terms.

[RRyder823]

Yes, they know that the final year isn't gonna be paid. However, you're still neglecting the previous years that have cash flow that isn't part of the guaranteed.

Arguing that extra cash flow on top of the guarantees doesn't matter at all is just being intentionally difficult (you did say the guaranteed portion is the ONLY thing that matters)

The point stands it's not the ONLY thing that matter

If Player A has a contract that is FULLY guaranteed for 20 million for 1 year and Player B has a contract that is for 15 million with a base salary of 8 million with another 7 million in incentives for one year which contract do you think the player is gonna prefer?

Yes I only used 1 year contracts in that example but the point is its not the ONLY thing that matters.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[ReasonablySober]

Yes, they know that the final year isn't gonna be paid. However, you're still neglecting the previous years that have cash flow that isn't part of the guaranteed.

Arguing that extra cash flow on top of the guarantees doesn't matter at all is just being intentionally difficult (you did say the guaranteed portion is the ONLY thing that matters)

The point stands it's not the ONLY thing that matter

If Player A has a contract that is FULLY guaranteed for 20 million for 1 year and Player B has a contract that is for 15 million with a base salary of 8 million with another 7 million in incentives for one year which contract do you think the player is gonna prefer?

Yes I only used 1 year contracts in that example but the point is its not the ONLY thing that matters.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

To be honest I have no idea what you're talking about here. A player is taking whichever guarantees him the most money.

[RRyder823]

Yes, they know that the final year isn't gonna be paid. However, you're still neglecting the previous years that have cash flow that isn't part of the guaranteed.

Arguing that extra cash flow on top of the guarantees doesn't matter at all is just being intentionally difficult (you did say the guaranteed portion is the ONLY thing that matters)

The point stands it's not the ONLY thing that matter

If Player A has a contract that is FULLY guaranteed for 20 million for 1 year and Player B has a contract that is for 15 million with a base salary of 8 million with another 7 million in incentives for one year which contract do you think the player is gonna prefer?

Yes I only used 1 year contracts in that example but the point is its not the ONLY thing that matters.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

To be honest I have no idea what you're talking about here. A player is taking whichever guarantees him the most money.

So Player A in the hypothetical....... Yeah no. You could just admit you dug your heels in a lil too far on the "it's the only thing that matters" comment but nope gonna die on that hill. I applaud the commitment

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[ReasonablySober]

Yes, they know that the final year isn't gonna be paid. However, you're still neglecting the previous years that have cash flow that isn't part of the guaranteed.

Arguing that extra cash flow on top of the guarantees doesn't matter at all is just being intentionally difficult (you did say the guaranteed portion is the ONLY thing that matters)

The point stands it's not the ONLY thing that matter

If Player A has a contract that is FULLY guaranteed for 20 million for 1 year and Player B has a contract that is for 15 million with a base salary of 8 million with another 7 million in incentives for one year which contract do you think the player is gonna prefer?

Yes I only used 1 year contracts in that example but the point is its not the ONLY thing that matters.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

To be honest I have no idea what you're talking about here. A player is taking whichever guarantees him the most money.

So Player A in the hypothetical....... Yeah no. You could just admit you dug your heels in a lil too far on the "it's the only thing that matters" comment but nope gonna die on that hill. I applaud the commitment

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You explained it poorly.

How about you use a real life example?

[RRyder823]

To be honest I have no idea what you're talking about here. A player is taking whichever guarantees him the most money.

So Player A in the hypothetical....... Yeah no. You could just admit you dug your heels in a lil too far on the "it's the only thing that matters" comment but nope gonna die on that hill. I applaud the commitment

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You explained it poorly.

How about you use a real life example?

/sigh

Player A has a contract fully guarenteed contract for 20 million. That's his contract. 20 million. He's making 20 million that year

Player B has a contract for 15 million guaranteed with a base salary of 8 million and has 7 million worth of incentives.

Which contract do you think a player would prefer? Player B in all likelihood gonna make more on his contract but Player A has 33% more in guarenteed money

According to the logic of "the guaranteed portion is all that matters" Player A should have the preferred contract, correct?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[ReasonablySober]

So Player A in the hypothetical....... Yeah no. You could just admit you dug your heels in a lil too far on the "it's the only thing that matters" comment but nope gonna die on that hill. I applaud the commitment

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You explained it poorly.

How about you use a real life example?

/sigh

Player A has a contract fully guarenteed contract for 20 million. That's his contract. 20 million. He's making 20 million that year

Player B has a contract for 15 million guaranteed with a base salary of 8 million and has 7 million worth of incentives.

Which contract do you think a player would prefer?

According to the logic of "the guaranteed portion is all that matters" Player A should have the preferred contract, correct?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Clearly you think Player B has the better contract. Want to explain why that one is better? And again, do you have an example?

[RRyder823]

Pretty much every player is gonna think Player Bs is better because in all likelihood they're gonna make more money.

I'm staying away from real world examples and keeping these details really simple is because in pretty much every example there's gonna be other factors with the contract that can/would push one contract to being preferable to another.

No shame in sayin you were useing hyperbole with your statement (guarenteed money is the only thing that matters) but you seem to want to dig your heels in on it

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[ReasonablySober]

Pretty much every player is gonna think Player Bs is better because in all likelihood they're gonna make more money.

I'm staying away from real world examples and keeping these details really simple is because in pretty much every example there's gonna be other factors with the contract that can/would push one contract to being preferable to another.

No shame in sayin you were useing hyperbole with your statement (guarenteed money is the only thing that matters) but you seem to want to dig your heels in on it

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

You should probably read more closely. I said practical guaranteed. That includes likely to be earned bonuses. Go back and read the MANY times I said practical guarantees on the previous page. I even bolded it.

An explanation.

Future, but Practical Guarantees
"Ok, so if i just look at the Guaranteed at Signing value, I'll know everything I need to know". Not necessarily. The reason we show two values for guaranteed money within a contract is that often times, future guarantees kick in a year (or even two) early. This is the "Guaranteed Mechanism" buzz phrase you certainly heard plenty about after Patrick Mahomes' contract was signed.

For instance, let's say a player has $15M fully guaranteed at signing, a bonus, a first year salary, and a second year salary. However, the player's 3rd year salary becomes fully guarantees in March of the 2nd year. This is what we classify as a "practical" guarantee, as it's not at all likely that the player will be released out of his contract before that 3rd year salary guarantee kicks in. This is very often also the case for a roster bonus in year 2 or 3 that isn't fully guaranteed at signing, but because it becomes guaranteed or payable in early March, has a practically of earning to it.

[Reddeye]

So Player A in the hypothetical....... Yeah no. You could just admit you dug your heels in a lil too far on the "it's the only thing that matters" comment but nope gonna die on that hill. I applaud the commitment

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You explained it poorly.

How about you use a real life example?

/sigh

Player A has a contract fully guarenteed contract for 20 million. That's his contract. 20 million. He's making 20 million that year

Player B has a contract for 15 million guaranteed with a base salary of 8 million and has 7 million worth of incentives.

Which contract do you think a player would prefer? Player B in all likelihood gonna make more on his contract but Player A has 33% more in guarenteed money

According to the logic of "the guaranteed portion is all that matters" Player A should have the preferred contract, correct?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Just to make sure are you saying the Player B contract is for 15 million plus a chance to earn 7 million in incentives? Or is it a possible 30 million?

[RRyder823]

Pretty much every player is gonna think Player Bs is better because in all likelihood they're gonna make more money.

I'm staying away from real world examples and keeping these details really simple is because in pretty much every example there's gonna be other factors with the contract that can/would push one contract to being preferable to another.

No shame in sayin you were useing hyperbole with your statement (guarenteed money is the only thing that matters) but you seem to want to dig your heels in on it

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

You should probably read more closely. I said practical guaranteed. That includes likely to be earned bonuses. Go back and read the MANY times I said practical guarantees on the previous page. I even bolded it.

An explanation.

Future, but Practical Guarantees
"Ok, so if i just look at the Guaranteed at Signing value, I'll know everything I need to know". Not necessarily. The reason we show two values for guaranteed money within a contract is that often times, future guarantees kick in a year (or even two) early. This is the "Guaranteed Mechanism" buzz phrase you certainly heard plenty about after Patrick Mahomes' contract was signed.

For instance, let's say a player has $15M fully guaranteed at signing, a bonus, a first year salary, and a second year salary. However, the player's 3rd year salary becomes fully guarantees in March of the 2nd year. This is what we classify as a "practical" guarantee, as it's not at all likely that the player will be released out of his contract before that 3rd year salary guarantee kicks in. This is very often also the case for a roster bonus in year 2 or 3 that isn't fully guaranteed at signing, but because it becomes guaranteed or payable in early March, has a practically of earning to it.

I read it perfectly fine


"Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts"

This was what you said copy and pasted and what I responded to

Like I said. No shame in just admitting you were useing hyperbole



Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[ReasonablySober]

Pretty much every player is gonna think Player Bs is better because in all likelihood they're gonna make more money.

I'm staying away from real world examples and keeping these details really simple is because in pretty much every example there's gonna be other factors with the contract that can/would push one contract to being preferable to another.

No shame in sayin you were useing hyperbole with your statement (guarenteed money is the only thing that matters) but you seem to want to dig your heels in on it

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

You should probably read more closely. I said practical guaranteed. That includes likely to be earned bonuses. Go back and read the MANY times I said practical guarantees on the previous page. I even bolded it.

An explanation.

Future, but Practical Guarantees
"Ok, so if i just look at the Guaranteed at Signing value, I'll know everything I need to know". Not necessarily. The reason we show two values for guaranteed money within a contract is that often times, future guarantees kick in a year (or even two) early. This is the "Guaranteed Mechanism" buzz phrase you certainly heard plenty about after Patrick Mahomes' contract was signed.

For instance, let's say a player has $15M fully guaranteed at signing, a bonus, a first year salary, and a second year salary. However, the player's 3rd year salary becomes fully guarantees in March of the 2nd year. This is what we classify as a "practical" guarantee, as it's not at all likely that the player will be released out of his contract before that 3rd year salary guarantee kicks in. This is very often also the case for a roster bonus in year 2 or 3 that isn't fully guaranteed at signing, but because it becomes guaranteed or payable in early March, has a practically of earning to it.

I read it perfectly fine


"Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts"

This was you said copy and pasted



Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

And I'm right. But keep going, man.

[RRyder823]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You explained it poorly.

How about you use a real life example?

/sigh

Player A has a contract fully guarenteed contract for 20 million. That's his contract. 20 million. He's making 20 million that year

Player B has a contract for 15 million guaranteed with a base salary of 8 million and has 7 million worth of incentives.

Which contract do you think a player would prefer? Player B in all likelihood gonna make more on his contract but Player A has 33% more in guarenteed money

According to the logic of "the guaranteed portion is all that matters" Player A should have the preferred contract, correct?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Just to make sure are you saying the Player B contract is for 15 million plus a chance to earn 7 million in incentives? Or is it a possible 30 million?

Possible 30

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[RRyder823]

You should probably read more closely. I said practical guaranteed. That includes likely to be earned bonuses. Go back and read the MANY times I said practical guarantees on the previous page. I even bolded it.

An explanation.

I read it perfectly fine


"Who gives a **** about per year? The only thing that matters is guaranteed amounts"

This was you said copy and pasted



Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

And I'm right. But keep going, man.

Sure u are. Keep digging in those heels and then trying to shift what was being responded to

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[ReasonablySober]

\Arguing that extra cash flow on top of the guarantees doesn't matter at all is just being intentionally difficult (you did say the guaranteed portion is the ONLY thing that matters)

^^ That's what you said.

This is what I said:

I beg you, just look at guaranteed money. Look at what the practical value of a contract is. That's all that matters.

Please, again, look at the PRACTICAL value of the contract.

Practical includes all of the likely bonuses. You jumped into to an argument today clearly not understanding what is being discussed. What I have been arguing against is using what someone's yearly salary or APY is.

Would you rather sign a one year deal for $17 million and be the highest paid center in the league for that season? Or would you rather sign a two deal that gives you $30 million guaranteed but your average salary is $15 million per year? This is the NFL. You'd be an idiot not to take the second contract. If you'd rather go year to year, you'd just take the Franchise tag. Tell me, do you see a lot of players asking to be Franchised?

[Reddeye]

/sigh

Player A has a contract fully guarenteed contract for 20 million. That's his contract. 20 million. He's making 20 million that year

Player B has a contract for 15 million guaranteed with a base salary of 8 million and has 7 million worth of incentives.

Which contract do you think a player would prefer? Player B in all likelihood gonna make more on his contract but Player A has 33% more in guarenteed money

According to the logic of "the guaranteed portion is all that matters" Player A should have the preferred contract, correct?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Just to make sure are you saying the Player B contract is for 15 million plus a chance to earn 7 million in incentives? Or is it a possible 30 million?

Possible 30

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Since salaries are guaranteed week 1 that is basically 23 million guaranteed.

[crkone]

So y'all think the Pack will pick up a fourth kicker?

[RRyder823]

\Arguing that extra cash flow on top of the guarantees doesn't matter at all is just being intentionally difficult (you did say the guaranteed portion is the ONLY thing that matters)

^^ That's what you said.

This is what I said:

I beg you, just look at guaranteed money. Look at what the practical value of a contract is. That's all that matters.

Please, again, look at the PRACTICAL value of the contract.

Practical includes all of the likely bonuses. You jumped into to an argument today clearly not understanding what is being discussed. What I have been arguing against is using what someone's yearly salary or APY is.

Would you rather sign a one year deal for $17 million and be the highest paid center in the league for that season? Or would you rather sign a two deal that gives you $30 million guaranteed but your average salary is $15 million per year? This is the NFL. You'd be an idiot not to take the second contract. If you'd rather go year to year, you'd just take the Franchise tag. Tell me, do you see a lot of players asking to be Franchised?

I jumped into an argument today when you started to use hyperbole to try and make a point and yet continue to deny that it was.


Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app