Ryan Dumpster....

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #21 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:26 am

By the time he has as many saves as Dempster, he'll be on pace to be 15/30 on saves.

Post #22 » by **GYBE** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 2:27 pm

Cav-Titan-Cub wrote:By the time he has as many saves as Dempster, he'll be on pace to be 15/30 on saves.

What is wrong with you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size

Typically, different sample sizes lead to different accuracies of measurement.

If you honestly think Marmol will blow every 2nd save, despite being a MUCH better pitcher than Dempster, I don't know what to do with you.

#1TKfan · Post #23 » by **#1TKfan** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:09 pm

dempster is NOT a closer. a closer is not supposed to walk or give up hits. its like everytime he goes out there its a nail biter. he gives the other teams a chance. yeah, he has been getting lucky lately, but its because he get the saves when we are up 2 or more. he usually gives up at least 1 run. that isnt a closer. cant have this going into the playoffs.
we have to try out marmol NOW.

WEFFPIM · Post #24 » by **WEFFPIM** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:15 pm

Marmol should have been the Cubs closer about a month ago. He's got wicked, closer-type stuff that Dempster just doesn't have.

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #25 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 7:22 pm

So when Marmol blows another save, and has as many as Dempster(2), you guys who will you guys want to be the closer then?

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #26 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 7:26 pm

Oh, and one more thing. Most teams haven't seen Marmol twice. The true test will be when he starts facing teams a 3rd or 4th time around when the book is out on em.

Post #27 » by **GYBE** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 7:48 pm

Cav-Titan-Cub wrote:Oh, and one more thing. Most teams haven't seen Marmol twice. The true test will be when he starts facing teams a 3rd or 4th time around when the book is out on em.

He's thrown one more inning than Dempster this year, plenty of people have seen him twice.

He only has two pitches, batters have seen the exact same two pitches all season and still no one can touch him. Every batter knows he'll throw his slider multiple times, and they all still whiff. That's what makes a closer great, like Rivera. Everyone knows his cutter is coming and they can't do anything. Dempster doesn't have that and never will.

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #28 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:04 pm

GYBE wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

He's thrown one more inning than Dempster this year, plenty of people have seen him twice.

He only has two pitches, batters have seen the exact same two pitches all season and still no one can touch him. Every batter knows he'll throw his slider multiple times, and they all still whiff. That's what makes a closer great, like Rivera. Everyone knows his cutter is coming and they can't do anything. Dempster doesn't have that and never will.

Uhuh...good thing your not our scout.

DaSportsGuy · Post #29 » by **DaSportsGuy** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:33 pm

I personally think that Dempster is the top pitcher out of the two. He is a reliable guy in the bullpen with only two blown saves. He is a guy that the Cubs can bring in and trust that he will shut the offense down.

SportsWorld · Post #30 » by **SportsWorld** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:38 pm

DaSportsGuy wrote:I personally think that Dempster is the top pitcher out of the two. He is a reliable guy in the bullpen with only two blown saves. He is a guy that the Cubs can bring in and trust that he will shut the offense down.

Cub fans don't trust Dumpster. When he was put in yesterday everyone said he would blow it here

Post #31 » by **GYBE** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:07 pm

DaSportsGuy wrote:I personally think that Dempster is the top pitcher out of the two.

Cav-Titan-Cub wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Uhuh...good thing your not our scout.

Marmol

56 IP, 1.45 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 77/29 K/BB ratio

Dempster

55.2 IP, 3.88 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 48/27 K/BB ratio

Um, yeah. They've pitched almost the same innings, Dempster's ERA is more than double Marmol's, Marmol has two more walks and 29 more strikeouts. I cannot believe any objective person could say Dempster is better. You're both wrong, I'm sorry.

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #32 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:21 pm

Cav-Titan-Cub wrote:So when Marmol blows another save, and has as many as Dempster(2), you guys who will you guys want to be the closer then?

You ever gonna answer this question GYBE?

Post #33 » by **GYBE** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:34 pm

Um, first off he has three blown saves.

Secondly, I've never said I want Marmol to close all the time. I've repeatedly said I want Marmol in at the most crucial moments of the game, regardless of the inning. I don't think managers should manage based upon some stupid save stat that was arbitrarily invented. Only idiots care about save stats.

Are you going to provide any evidence of Dempster being a better pitcher?

Post #34 » by **GYBE** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:39 pm

Read this article

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #35 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:51 pm

GYBE wrote:Um, first off he has three blown saves.

Umm...I checked how many he had before he blew that one the other night.

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #36 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:01 am

GYBE wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

He's thrown one more inning than Dempster this year, plenty of people have seen him twice.

He only has two pitches, batters have seen the exact same two pitches all season and still no one can touch him. Every batter knows he'll throw his slider multiple times, and they all still whiff. That's what makes a closer great, like Rivera. Everyone knows his cutter is coming and they can't do anything. Dempster doesn't have that and never will.

Their is a big difference between being in the MLB for 9 years like Ryan Dempster, and being in the MLB for 1.5 seasons like Carlos Marmol. Ryan Dempster is to past his prime to keep developing his current pitches, and developing other ones. Carlos Marmol is young and still develping and "editing" his current pitches.

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #37 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:02 am

Cav-Titan-Cub wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You ever gonna answer this question GYBE?

And GYBE...you still haven't answered this question...do I have ya stumped and backed into a corner?

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #38 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:04 am

Last thing...GYBE, I know we've been getting into a heated debate, but let's try to keep that in here and not let that affect us in other threads...I respect you very much, and you are a great guy. Debate is what makes alot of forums fun to be around.

Post #39 » by **GYBE** » Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:11 am

Cav-Titan-Cub wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

And GYBE...you still haven't answered this question...do I have ya stumped and backed into a corner?

Dude, I already answered it. I think the idea of having one guy for save situations is antiquated.

If we're in a jam in the 7th, I want Marmol brought in.

If it's smooth sailing into the 9th, I want him in then.

I don't think you manage baseball by a fixed chart that dictates when a guy is brought in, you manage by the individual game situations. It shouldn't be a video game where you always bring out the same guy for the 7th, the same guy for the 8th and the same guy for the 9th. I know that's how most managers work, I just think it's wrong.

Having said that, I think it's very doubtful Marmol would blow two saves in the last month. He's allowed 9 earned runs all season.

Cav-Titan-Cub · Post #40 » by **Cav-Titan-Cub** » Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:42 am

GYBE wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Having said that, I think it's very doubtful Marmol would blow two saves in the last month. He's allowed 9 earned runs all season.