2018 regular season thread

[hermes]

jeez, they got to get him out of there

pass rush is relentless

[hermes]

alright, that was a big win to get back on track

awesome to see the offense function like that, hopefully we can keep it up the rest of the year

[Jedzz]

This is unreal. I literally turned the game on two plays before the pick six. Total bloodbath.

They just had to call that garbage pass play to the flats that isn't even up to the line of scrimmage. They've done it numerous times in the past 3 games to the right side. This one to his left. These were the plays and throws Christian Ponder used to get. Just like him, the QB throws it. If the OC called that play on me as a QB, I audible out every time. Such a useless waste of a down.

Otherwise, getting the change away from Defilippo does seem to have energized the line and offense a little. I saw a few rollout/bootlegs from Cousins very early that first quarter. They need to stick with that, the hurryup no huddle, and maybe add in shotgun because of this oline. Any better opponents will take advantage of them more than Miami did (one quarter or so they pressured.)

Doesn't really matter anymore this season. Seeing that pass play in the flats, seeing a lot of Cousins still right under center. Tells me the new OC isn't completely going to fix everything just yet. They will probably drop yet another and watch from couches this playoffs. Saw them shut down again even in this game. One turnover happens and there simply isn't anyone with a spine on this team. At least they got back on the horse over a quarter later. Haven't seen that after they've shut down in the past.

[Jedzz]

Still seeing poorly designed plays called. Hopefully the new OC just needs time to remove them. The pass left to Conklin that turned out to be a completed and needed first down play. Worked this time. Did not work last game. It's a poorly designed play because Conklin is the only one to release and go into a route. That leaves Cousins no other option.

Then of course, the foolishly short left flats throw that went for a pick 6. Cousins is still throwing to the designed target without looking first. More importantly, that play should be ripped from the play book entirely. That it still is used is... The play design looks to have no value to moving a ball forward even when it's caught. It just looks like an easy way to present an open field to a would be interceptor. ...call that what you want.

Then the 10 targets of Diggs. Only 7 targets seem to be recorded but it was Ten plays the QB threw his way. A couple poorly thrown or rushed passes Diggs didn't get hands on so it looks like they didn't count. Some of these targets are forced Diggs way even when he is covered well. Which is classic Cousins this season and fine since he catches some. But the point is then why is Thielen not getting throws his way yet? Two targets to Thielen all game? They aren't calling his name on the play calls. He's not the target called. Game commentators speak of double teaming from the defense but it's bogus. He is not getting double teamed each play in the slot. He is no more covered than Diggs on many a play, or than he was in the past when he was getting the 7-10 targets with plenty directly into double coverage. Cousins has targeted both Diggs and Thielen, even robinson through triple coverage earlier this season. They need to keep both Diggs and Thielen involved. Instead they are targeting Treadwell still. Wasted play. Everyone else got as much or more targets than Thielen. Both tight ends are getting more targets and plays called directly for them. It's an ongoing mistake over the recent struggles of this team. I'm not sure if the theory is to try and force defenses to respect their other players or wha exactly. They need to stop forcing Thielen into this slot role for the majority of the time. This was the major mistake of Defillippo this season. He should be used all over the field more, split wide more. And then also sparingly used from the slot as well. He's gone from a projected 17-1800 yard receiver after 8 games to 1400 now if he's lucky. He might not reach 1300 yards at the pace of targets they've dropped him to. Might as well call him your 3rd or 4th receiver and the slot punk given his usage lately. Which I suppose nestles him closer into what level he is currently paid and the zero capspace they will have to offer him any more with.

Not sure how the line was able to open holes for the backs occasionally, and then couldn't for 1.5 quarters again in the middle of the game. Wasn't watching that closely enough to see if they were doing anything differently or if it was just the Miami D play.

[Jedzz]

Oh look, the VIkings scored 41 pts. What is to complain about?

Maybe it's the fact they could have scored 41 pts in every single game that is worth complaining about. Or just to complain they shut themselves down again in the middle of this thing after a great first quarter. Every Vikings fan watching knew exactly what was coming after the first quarter. The only surprise of this game was the team actually found a way to regather themselves after half time.

Really would be nice if the team could start over keeping all this talent but with wiser leadership. Who lets a team stacked like this drop to 66-1 before doing something about it? Now 7-6-1 and hoping to hold onto the last wildcard spot.

[Worm Guts]

Maybe it's the fact they could have scored 41 pts in every single game that is worth complaining about.

That's obviously an issue of expectation, that's not a reasonable expectation for any team. The Vikings maybe have above average talent at the skill positions but below average talent on the line. I'm pretty down on Cousins at this moment, he leads the league in turnovers and so many have been turned directly into touchdowns. It's such a killer.

[hermes]

jedzz, you're killing me

we just had our best offensive game of the year and you act like we just got shut out

[Jedzz]

jedzz, you're killing me

we just had our best offensive game of the year and you act like we just got shut out

It wasn't the best offensive game to me. They did have one of their better offensive quarters right away during this game. They also figured out a way to resume playing after going into a shell for 1.5 Qs. These are good signs of change if any. Many of the same mistakes are still occurring which leads me to believe when it counts against good teams they will fall flat on their face still.

Their simply is no excuse for some of the things they still are doing. No excuse except that it's a Zimmer team.

Their next win or go home type game should be their last. I'm not expecting to be surprised by a real football team for 4 quarters against any decent teams in meaningful games that have to be won.

[Jedzz]

Maybe it's the fact they could have scored 41 pts in every single game that is worth complaining about.

That's obviously an issue of expectation, that's not a reasonable expectation for any team. The Vikings maybe have above average talent at the skill positions but below average talent on the line. I'm pretty down on Cousins at this moment, he leads the league in turnovers and so many have been turned directly into touchdowns. It's such a killer.

It's not about expectations. It's about the goals the team has. This game they were out to prove they weren't completely dead and they weren't scared of Miami. That is the only reason for the fast start. And as quick as it happened it also stopped.

The goals of this head coach are for 1) keep the game score close, and for 2) limit action to avoid any turnovers, and 3) find a way to make the defense the most important part of the team.

Those go against my goals for 1) Aggressive on both ends, 2) keep scoring until they cry, and 3) win on the back of whatever is working best against this opponent that day.

They have the talent to aim for 30-40+ a game against a majority of the league opponents. They just have to aim for that instead of aiming "not to lose" by offense. You'll see in the final games the same old Zimmer team returns. I would be impressed if I was wrong.

[Worm Guts]

Maybe it's the fact they could have scored 41 pts in every single game that is worth complaining about.

That's obviously an issue of expectation, that's not a reasonable expectation for any team. The Vikings maybe have above average talent at the skill positions but below average talent on the line. I'm pretty down on Cousins at this moment, he leads the league in turnovers and so many have been turned directly into touchdowns. It's such a killer.

It's not about expectations. It's about the goals the team has. This game they were out to prove they weren't completely dead and they weren't scared of Miami. That is the only reason for the fast start. And as quick as it happened it also stopped.

The goals of this head coach are for 1) keep the game score close, and for 2) limit action to avoid any turnovers, and 3) find a way to make the defense the most important part of the team.

Those go against my goals for 1) Aggressive on both ends, 2) keep scoring until they cry, and 3) win on the back of whatever is working best against this opponent that day.

They have the talent to aim for 30-40+ a game against a majority of the league opponents. They just have to aim for that instead of aiming "not to lose" by offense. You'll see in the final games the same old Zimmer team returns. I would be impressed if I was wrong.

Ugh

[Jedzz]

Ugh

I'm not kidding. It's all in how they choose to play. The only reason he allowed the offense to start fast this past game is because Zimmer needs to prove there was a reason for firing Defillippo. I don't blame him for it. He would have been fool and probably in danger of getting fired himself if they didn't come out a look better and more aggressive somehow.

Do you think if they started the Miami game with short garbage passing out of a stationary pocket that they would have scored even 14 the first half? No they wouldn't have and it's why they rarely have scored lately starting games like that. This game they started out rolling Cousins right and throwing on the move. Couple easy first down pass plays later and the Defense is already on its heels and spreading out.

Take that dumb pass play to the left flats for instance. That was pretty much right when they decided to sit on the lead. That kind of garbage wasn't on their mind to start the game when they wanted to start fast and score early. Once they had that early lead it was "play it safe" time again. Only to him, he thinks playing it safe is keeping the passes short. Only short is almost backwards with this team. What those actually do is allow the defense to start pressuring the pocket and line because they see you keeping the ball at home there. Everything collapses around you and that's more bodies around your pass or run player, more chances for strips, fumbles, interceptions. It makes everything your offense does harder to do. Now maybe if you had a good offensive line you could do everything perfect, tighten up and get by. But... Qb feels pressure a little sooner, decision to throw comes sooner, your targets are surrounded by bodies. There is nothing "safe" about playing this way. Zimmer doesn't get that. Many fans of the short passing game don't even understand the perfection needed to play that style game.

Ugh is what I say every time Zimmer opens his mouth these days. Every time he reaches for his red flag. Every time he publicly calls out a name to blame losses on. Ugh is what I say when I see fans standing up for conservative to a fault football.

Hey you know what else had been conservative all season? Zimmer's defense. Since when is Barr allowed to pressure the QB again. All season he was asked to drop back into coverage. Last two games Zimmer woke up and had Barr moving forward instead of backpedaling. It's made a big difference for the defense. His overall blitzes picked up. His corners have played up closer, instead of the 10-15 yard cushion they were handing out for free all season long. You see, Zimmer feels the heat too. It was time to play winning football on Sunday finally. It was time the week before and Zimmers D did play then. Defillippo didn't listen to the memo and got yanked.

We'll see if the team reverts now or if they finally put two and two together and see that how they attacked in the first quarter is how they should always play. 4 quarters of that. Show us 4 quarters of that and then get out your calculator and add it up.

[Worm Guts]

You accused Zimmer of intentionally sabotaging his offense to make his defense look better. I don’t know how to respond to comments that ridiculous.
If Zimmer wants a conservative offense, it’s probably because he has a QB who leads the NFL in turnovers and has 5 of them returned directly for touchdowns.
Overall your complaining is exhausting, just constant and about every meaningless thing.

[Jedzz]

You accused Zimmer of intentionally sabotaging his offense to make his defense look better. I don’t know how to respond to comments that ridiculous.
If Zimmer wants a conservative offense, it’s probably because he has a QB who leads the NFL in turnovers and has 5 of them returned directly for touchdowns.
Overall your complaining is exhausting, just constant and about every meaningless thing.

I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm calling a fact a fact. It is what it is. There is a form of shortsighted logical explanation for him not wanting the offense screaming down the field in short order, scoring, and sending the defense right back out there. By halftime a defense can have 2 or 3 times the field time in some games. A defensive coach might have reasons to avoid this, and Zimmer does like to avoid this. An offense can score on one play. Two plays. 3 plays..30 plays a drive. It's how you choose to go about it and why. You are the one using words like "sabotage". I'm using phrases like "style of play" and words like "choices".

Make no mistake about this, and Zimmer has openly talked about this in the past. He has described this all before.

Your second sentence is just the outcome of what happens when Zimmer goes back to trying to get ultra conservative into what he thinks is "safer" for the passing game. An interception happens and he tightens up and leans on the OC. Reactions occur. What I've been describing for you all along is what is causing the environment to be ripe for more turnovers. There is no better way to force fumbles and interceptions than to pressure the QB. You can't pressure the QB much if the defense is on it's heels defending 12 yard passes. You can't. They can when you are only attempting 1 yard passes. They all come up to your face and ruin your plans. It snowballs from there because the coach tightens up more. Your QB tightens up. The plays are the same short garbage and the defense is still in your face. No one is asking them to back up anymore. Get ready for more turnovers or punts. So you go ahead and pick, chicken or the egg.

The reality is this team did not build an oline capable of playing the way Zimmer wants to play. They need to stick with what works for who they are this year and never waiver from it until a defense forces you to.

Overall your excuses are just exhausting. The same rationalization garbage for everything is always fine. I have the cause and effect by my side. I've talked about it before, during, and after it has already happened. And at every stage I have to read excuses for how what they do is right, when it's not. It is not. They are 7-6-1 for a reason. I can see those reasons. Sone people like to throw their hands up and blame it all on the talent and call it a season. That's not what the coaches should be doing. I don't care what it is you do.

[Worm Guts]

You accused Zimmer of intentionally sabotaging his offense to make his defense look better. I don’t know how to respond to comments that ridiculous.
If Zimmer wants a conservative offense, it’s probably because he has a QB who leads the NFL in turnovers and has 5 of them returned directly for touchdowns.
Overall your complaining is exhausting, just constant and about every meaningless thing.

I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm calling a fact a fact. It is what it is. There is a form of shortsighted logical explanation for him not wanting the offense screaming down the field in short order, scoring, and sending the defense right back out there. By halftime a defense can have 2 or 3 times the field time in some games. A defensive coach might have reasons to avoid this, and Zimmer does like to avoid this. An offense can score on one play. Two plays. 3 plays..30 plays a drive. It's how you choose to go about it and why. You are the one using words like "sabotage". I'm using phrases like "style of play" and words like "choices".

Make no mistake about this, and Zimmer has openly talked about this in the past. He has described this all before.

Your second sentence is just the outcome of what happens when Zimmer goes back to trying to get ultra conservative into what he thinks is "safer" for the passing game. An interception happens and he tightens up and leans on the OC. Reactions occur. What I've been describing for you all along is what is causing the environment to be ripe for more turnovers. There is no better way to force fumbles and interceptions than to pressure the QB. You can't pressure the QB much if the defense is on it's heels defending 12 yard passes. You can't. They can when you are only attempting 1 yard passes. They all come up to your face and ruin your plans. It snowballs from there because the coach tightens up more. Your QB tightens up. The plays are the same short garbage and the defense is still in your face. No one is asking them to back up anymore. Get ready for more turnovers or punts. So you go ahead and pick, chicken or the egg.

The reality is this team did not build an oline capable of playing the way Zimmer wants to play. They need to stick with what works for who they are this year and never waiver from it until a defense forces you to.

Overall your excuses are just exhausting. The same rationalization garbage for everything is always fine. I have the cause and effect by my side. I've talked about it before, during, and after it has already happened. And at every stage I have to read excuses for how what they do is right, when it's not. It is not. They are 7-6-1 for a reason. I can see those reasons. Sone people like to throw their hands up and blame it all on the talent and call it a season. That's not what the coaches should be doing. I don't care what it is you do.

I'm not saying what they do is right or wrong, that's never been my point. You have unrealistic expectations, and for some reason think you know way more than you actually do.

[hermes]

jedzz, tell me what is going to happen in the miami game

i'm going to miss at least part of it due to holiday commitments

[Jedzz]

I'm not saying what they do is right or wrong, that's never been my point. You have unrealistic expectations, and for some reason think you know way more than you actually do.

I don't have unrealistic expectations. They have the very talent needed to aim for what I suggested they should. They just don't aim for it every game or all game in any game. I've explained why they don't. You won't listen. I've explained why the leadership does what they do. You won't listen. You are doing exactly as I said, you are blaming the talent and suggesting they can't do better.

Asking them to aim for 40 pts a game isn't claiming they will automatically earn 40 pts a game. I'm saying they have the talent to reach those levels in every game they try to do so. If we saw them actually trying to for four quarters every game this season I guarantee you they have no more then two or three losses right now. That's not what they tried to do so they got no where near it. More so, they pretty much got everything they've aimed for so far. WHen they've gotten conservative, they've paid the price dearly.

I've been saying ever since they pooched the beginning of the Packer game, and then lit up the Pack for 20+ in the 4th quarter. There is two sides to this coin of theirs and it all depends on which side of the coin they want to compete with. In the Miami game, we got another good look at both sides of that coin. Trying to at least find a healthy medium between sitting on their thumbs and going for broke might be the best case scenario with this coach. But so far even that eludes him because he doesn't understand what is wrong. If you also don't understand, then bow out more gracefully because this doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure it out.

[Jedzz]

jedzz, tell me what is going to happen in the miami game

i'm going to miss at least part of it due to holiday commitments

I'm thinking you meant whoever they play after Miami, and I cannot even tell you who that is. I stopped looking ahead because the season is over already. I'm expecting Zimmer to have Cousins in the Christian Ponder mode some more yet. But it's up to him to choose. You'll know which team they want to be if you see them passing to targets at the line of scrimmage again or not.

[hermes]

no i mean this sunday versus the miami dolphins, one game at a time man

don't hold out on me, if you know what's going to happen then i gotta know - otherwise i'll be too anxious

[Jedzz]

no i mean this sunday versus the miami dolphins, one game at a time man

don't hold out on me, if you know what's going to happen then i gotta know - otherwise i'll be too anxious

They play the lions. Not sure what your miami deal is right now except that you are trying to dig on me for saying I know what is happening. They beat the lions in Nov. But they often split with Lions, could happen again. With this year's team it's another coin flip. You'll have to live with anxious. It's in Detroit, you know, an away game. The defense has a funny way of sometimes not arriving at away games. But the Detroit stadium never really scares them like others do.

Like I said, you will know early on if they are passing to the line of scrimmage. If that's the case, crack a cold one and expect a loss and find something better to watch. If they are rolling out and throwing beyond the first down marker early then you might have entertainment for a while. If it's run run pass punt, expect a field goal battle. Now that I've laid out the options you will undoubtedly see one of you can decide now whether you want to bother. Make sure to drop by and tell us what you saw happen in Miami on Sunday.

[hermes]

oh man it is detroit, i'm losing it man