2019 off-season thread: moves and news

[Jedzz]

9 picks today, i expect a fair amount of defense (none so far!)

d-tackle and cornerback for sure, a flier at a third wr to compete with treadwell would be nice. a few more o-lineman would be good, might get lucky and have one hit

9 picks left now. hah. He'll trade a bunch to move up and sideways and whatever. It's pointless. He's going to maybe fill out the summer camp competitions. 5 or 6 players coming out of these picks.

There are a good 20-40 guards and tackles still available that are just as possible to be as good as anyone on their current line now.
Bring all in that you can. Find the best ones through a good summer competition. When you amass 9 picks for the later rounds it should be easy.



Treadwell should simply be cut. That would allow two other WRs to compete this summer. The short TE(WR/HB) they already chose could be more of a replacement for Treadwelll's 4th level targets anyway.

[Jedzz]

A 3rd round lineman would have been nice, we really need someone who could challenge for a starting spot at guard or fill in for an injury. I didn't see a need for a backup running back in the 3rd round. Still need to cover a few other positions as well.

He had the perfect opportunity to get two lineman in the top 3 picks they had. He just wouldn't do it. They didn't need another TE so badly that they had to use a second round pick on one either. He's also been described as a H-back/tight end/fullback by Rick now so him and the 3rd round pick of a moose runner should tell us they plan to return to being a running team ala Kubiak.

Drafting depth RBs in the third is foolish as I see it too, given what they need. He had people telling him they needed a RB. There are some fans that beleive it after Cook has been showing a propensity for not finishing seasons. The problem is they've never noticed it's easy to find useable RB in any round, even undrafted. 4th 5th 6th rounds are fine for a RB and when you know full well they will be slotted in behind Cook regardless, it should be even more so important to wait and bolster other positions first.

They need a new GM. There is no getting around it. I knew full well a RB and TE would be larger priorities for him as it always has been. His track record is clear and there is ample evidence for why the team finds it so difficult to produce an offensive line that protects their QBs to enable their best offense possible.

[Jedzz]

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/4/27/18519452/minnesota-vikings-rick-spielman-2019-nfl-draft

Q: How is Coach Zimmer doing, with only offensive players being selected?

A: Coach Zimmer was actually very happy we got the offense going, but also every time we do trade back it’s irritating to him. But he knows we’re going to get some really good players tomorrow. He was ready to unplug the phones again, like he is every year.

I had to laugh as well.

Another question should have been: Q: Are you drafting for the Kubiak ideal or the Zimmer ideals?

[Worm Guts]

A 3rd round lineman would have been nice, we really need someone who could challenge for a starting spot at guard or fill in for an injury. I didn't see a need for a backup running back in the 3rd round. Still need to cover a few other positions as well.

He had the perfect opportunity to get two lineman in the top 3 picks they had. He just wouldn't do it. They didn't need another TE so badly that they had to use a second round pick on one either. He's also been described as a H-back/tight end/fullback by Rick now so him and the 3rd round pick of a moose runner should tell us they plan to return to being a running team ala Kubiak.

Drafting depth RBs in the third is foolish as I see it too, given what they need. He had people telling him they needed a RB. There are some fans that beleive it after Cook has been showing a propensity for not finishing seasons. The problem is they've never noticed it's easy to find useable RB in any round, even undrafted. 4th 5th 6th rounds are fine for a RB and when you know full well they will be slotted in behind Cook regardless, it should be even more so important to wait and bolster other positions first.

They need a new GM. There is no getting around it. I knew full well a RB and TE would be larger priorities for him as it always has been. His track record is clear and there is ample evidence for why the team finds it so difficult to produce an offensive line that protects their QBs to enable their best offense possible.

I didn't necessarily mind the 2nd round pick, since he at least seemed to be in the discussion for BPA at the time, but I agree with everything you said about the 3rd round pick. He doesn't seem to be a steal at where we took him, you get can get decent RB's later in the draft, and we had more pressing needs.

[Jedzz]

I didn't necessarily mind the 2nd round pick, since he at least seemed to be in the discussion for BPA at the time, but I agree with everything you said about the 3rd round pick. He doesn't seem to be a steal at where we took him, you get can get decent RB's later in the draft, and we had more pressing needs.

Agreed, runningback selection in third (and a depth RB) just shouldn't have happened. But seeing Rick's description of the second round pick including the words H-back yesterday might mean they actually doubled down on running options in the second and third. Anyone that truly believes a 6 ft 2 inch "H-back/tight end/fullback" is going to make a great starting TE to replace Rudolph with as a future starting TE is only fooling themselves just enough to be ok with this pick in the second round. Because he's not a true TE. He could end up anywhere from a Treadwell 4th receiving target replacement to doing nothing but lead blocking for Cook and Mattison or stealing some of their short receptions for no reason. But a future starting force at TE from a receiving and blocking standpoint it just doesn't sound like it. I'm not really sure how he can be claimed a BPA at pick 50 either. Was he claimed as the best talent left at TE at that point?

I just think we need to look at Rick's big picture over these years of drafting to see the fallout of constantly drafting backup TEs. It's a very real problem. 10 moves to bring in 10 new TEs in 9 seasons and most of them were used/slotted significantly as backup TE levels. Aside from Rudolph, they won't seem to just leave the TE position alone and focus on improving other positions. All this focus given to the TE position's backup or secondary role each year.

Sounds like a Kubiak plan to me. Looks to me like they spent rounds two and three on Kubiak's plan to bolster the running game. It could be argued the Center choice when they already had Elf is another step in building the running game. When what they needed more then anything (with Cousins as QB), was a massive improvement at passing protection. With greater passing protection they would have gotten an improved running game by default space created within opposing defenses respecting the passing game. This team is led by fools. I don't know why I put two seconds into thinking about them anymore.

[Worm Guts]

I don’t know, you’ve obviously put more thought into this than I have, but when Smith was at Alabama I thought he looked fast and athletic for a Tight End. And for whatever it’s worth, he was pretty close to the top of Kiper’s best available when we took him.

[Jedzz]

I don’t know, you’ve obviously put more thought into this than I have, but when Smith was at Alabama I thought he looked fast and athletic for a Tight End. And for whatever it’s worth, he was pretty close to the top of Kiper’s best available when we took him.

Ok fast and athletic. Is that all that is needed to spell out starting TE in the NFL these days? I don't think we are talking apples to apples here when people suggest it's a fine pick leading to letting Rudolph walk after this season.

Rob Gronkowski 6'6 268 retired
Travis Kelce 6'5 260
George Kittle 6'4 250
Zach Ertz 6'5 250
O.J. Howard 6'6 251
Hunter Henry 6'5 250
Evan Engram 6'3 240
Eric Ebron 6'4 253
Jared Cook 6'5 254
David Njoku 6'4 246
...
Jimmy Graham 6'7 265
Greg Olsen 6'5 255
Kyle Rudolph 6'6 265


Then we have this Irv Smith Jr. at 6'2 242. 4.63 speed
His measureables are what they are and it's why Rick described him as "H-back/tight end/fullback" and a few others on draft day considered him more a WR. (A slow 6-2 WR - sounds like a heavy Treadwell)

2nd round pick on a tweaner. Granted he could be used all over the place. Could end up nothing but a 6'2 receiver here. Could be nothing but a lead blocker no one ever hears about. Could get some runs out of the backfield. Could end up useful in all kinds of situations. But are you going to call him your starting TE when you let Rudolph walk? No. Your second round pick? Kipers best? Come on. They will end up drafting yet another TE next season for that role.

TE of his stature in the NFL today:
Stephen Anderson, Patriots undrafted 2016(Houston) 6-2 230 "TE"

nfl.com comparison: Get this....they say BEN WATSON (6-4 251 first round draft pick) Maybe that was the one line someone sold Rick with!

This is what happens with Tweaners. Nobody knows what they are going to be good for.

He might be a good overall football player. Is he worthy of the Vikings 2nd round pick? What a weak draft to have a tweaner like this in the top 50.

[Worm Guts]

It would be nice if he was 6’5, but that really isn’t a huge concern for me.
In terms of draft experts, pretty much everyone had him as a 2nd round pick.

[Worm Guts]

Jordan Reed, one Kirk’s favorite targets in Washington was pretty much the exact same dimensions

[hermes]

i wonder if they are worried about cook's durability so they went running back in the third?

[hermes]

took a guard from oklahoma in the fourth, traded up to get him so only 7 picks left today (as of right now)

don't know anything about this guy but hey, he's an offensive lineman so that's nice

[Jedzz]

It would be nice if he was 6’5, but that really isn’t a huge concern for me.
In terms of draft experts, pretty much everyone had him as a 2nd round pick.

I think there is a better chance he could be our Starting Runningback with pass catching threat than he is going to take over the starting TE role for the future here. But even then the speed isn't there to break out at this level.

We can have a 6ft tall QB too, but there is risk involved with that and that's why you see it less. We just saw a shorty go #1. Yes teams occasionally make these decisions. No argument.

Here's the deal. He's not going to be a Gronk for this team, or a Rudolph, or any of the other good TEs you see these days. He won't have that height leverage to be that target that can't be stopped. He can end up a scrapper, I'm not saying he can't be.

He's slow for a receiver, but quick enough as a TE. Gronk was 4.68 speed but he's moving at that speed at 6'6" and 264. This is what makes todays NFL TEs so dangerous. The massive size leverage mated to enough speed to be dangerous. Take one of those features away and now you likely have at ceiling an average player.

It is what it is to me. A weak draft with someone like this in the top 50. A foolish team taking a tweaner offensive talent when there is a problem with the front trench blocking for anyone on offense. It's like taking Jerick McKinnon in the 3rd round in 2014. These moves don't elevate your team.

[Jedzz]

took a guard from oklahoma in the fourth, traded up to get him so only 7 picks left today (as of right now)

don't know anything about this guy but hey, he's an offensive lineman so that's nice

That's good news. Take a few more.

[Jedzz]

Jordan Reed, one Kirk’s favorite targets in Washington was pretty much the exact same dimensions

Yeah, and he was a Third round pick 85. That's a full round worth of picks later.

Cousins also had another shorter yet TE in Washington (maybe 6-1), and that guy went to Jags last year and then got waived.

Cousins is a good QB that throws catchable passes. But he needs a front line like everyone does. Washington also did didly to become a playoff team with Cousins. We don't want to match what they did exactly.

[hermes]

catching up:

5th round pick was an inside linebacker from usc
3 6th round picks on a defensive tackle from arkansas, safety from wyoming, and an offensive tackle from elon

4 seventh rounders are on the way

surprised no corners yet

[Jedzz]

Corner round 7. Boyd.

[Jedzz]

ok. I didn't like the TE pick in round two. Also thought backup RB in third was to early to grab a depth back.

But otherwise, I have to say hats off to their drafting for once for at least making sure to bring in multiple lineman.

C, G, T Samia and Udoh seem interesting.

Then I think they picked an interesting WR fpr a 7th round pick. Mitchell. Seems like the Ducks got a lot our of him. Hope it translates at this level.

I think they could have addressed Oline a little more powerful with earlier picks, but they pulled the trigger three times and that's unheard of around here. I go with a B rating just on that alone. Usually Rick is in total denial about the Oline.This shows someone there recognizes they needed more chances to build a line with depth for this season.

Not sure about all the trading around, so much so they ended up selecting a long snapper at the end. Was that the most of the draft by any team?

[hermes]

12 picks is a lot, probably the most

last couple rounds are just lottery tickets, most usually don't make the team. having a bunch makes it more likely you hit on one

i like the draft overall, very offense heavy to start which was unusual but i guess the defense is pretty good

[Jedzz]

Kubiak had a lot to do with this one. Too many differences for it not to be real. The guy is churning the butter over there.

[hermes]

didn't pick up treadwell's option, he'll be a free agent after this year

not unexpected, so i guess we'll see if its ever going to happen for him