Hello Obi Toppin

[Wizop]

Toppin is in his contract year and is extension eligible. I think the new CBA allows 40% raises but maybe there are other options including allowing him to become a RFA as we could match an offer. I can imagine him wanting 20+

[Scoot McGroot]

Great deal. Nobody cares about 2nds and if he sucks we just let him go. Love this move. Can he play a lick of defense though?

Not really. If he could, Thibs would never trade him.

You know nothing about Obi Toppin or the Knicks w this statement...

He was traded bc Julius Randle is Thibs pet. They tied at the hip no matter how bad Randle plays, no player accountability, no matter how good Obi plays he was never rewarded.

He improved his game every season,that includes his defense

If he could play defense, Thibs would have found a way to get him minutes. Right? Even with Randle there. He’d have made it work.

Or are you saying that Obi is a really good offensive player, and a good defensive player and Thibs just had him traded for only 2 2nds? That would be pretty damning of NY management that they would make that poor of a trade.

[Scoot McGroot]

Toppin is in his contract year and is extension eligible. I think the new CBA allows 40% raises but maybe there are other options including allowing him to become a RFA as we could match an offer. I can imagine him wanting 20+

He can negotiate an extension until the season starts. He’s on a rookie scale contract, not a veteran contract, so the extension rules are different. He could sign anything up to a max for up to 5 years.

[Wizop]

Toppin is in his contract year and is extension eligible. I think the new CBA allows 40% raises but maybe there are other options including allowing him to become a RFA as we could match an offer. I can imagine him wanting 20+

He can negotiate an extension until the season starts. He’s on a rookie scale contract, not a veteran contract, so the extension rules are different. He could sign anything up to a max for up to 5 years.

If he's a starter, he'll want something like Brown is getting.

[KnixtapeH20]

Not really. If he could, Thibs would never trade him.

You know nothing about Obi Toppin or the Knicks w this statement...

He was traded bc Julius Randle is Thibs pet. They tied at the hip no matter how bad Randle plays, no player accountability, no matter how good Obi plays he was never rewarded.

He improved his game every season,that includes his defense

If he could play defense, Thibs would have found a way to get him minutes. Right? Even with Randle there. He’d have made it work.

Or are you saying that Obi is a really good offensive player, and a good defensive player and Thibs just had him traded for only 2 2nds? That would be pretty damning of NY management that they would make that poor of a trade.

I'm saying it didn't matter what Obi did on the court once Randle won Thibs COTY and got himself MIP. Randle is a bum and even when Obi was lighting it up, improved his 3, blocking shots, grabbing rebounds, he was never rewarded with more minutes.

One little mistake and he was always pulled. Even if we were getting blown out by 30 Randle would still be in to finish the games.... Thibs is a dinosaur.. the game has past him by years ago. Nobody will ever give him another coaching job after this yet we treat him like he's untouchable and let him make all personnel decisions.

[Pacersike]

Good pick up.

If he can get his mind fully focused, possible starter.

[JMaster5K]

You know nothing about Obi Toppin or the Knicks w this statement...

He was traded bc Julius Randle is Thibs pet. They tied at the hip no matter how bad Randle plays, no player accountability, no matter how good Obi plays he was never rewarded.

He improved his game every season,that includes his defense

If he could play defense, Thibs would have found a way to get him minutes. Right? Even with Randle there. He’d have made it work.

Or are you saying that Obi is a really good offensive player, and a good defensive player and Thibs just had him traded for only 2 2nds? That would be pretty damning of NY management that they would make that poor of a trade.

I'm saying it didn't matter what Obi did on the court once Randle won Thibs COTY and got himself MIP. Randle is a bum and even when Obi was lighting it up, improved his 3, blocking shots, grabbing rebounds, he was never rewarded with more minutes.

One little mistake and he was always pulled. Even if we were getting blown out by 30 Randle would still be in to finish the games.... Thibs is a dinosaur.. the game has past him by years ago. Nobody will ever give him another coaching job after this yet we treat him like he's untouchable and let him make all personnel decisions.

IMO,.. you're both right. Toppin did improve every year. Coach Thibs never really did try to develop him. Probably because his defense was so bad to start with. It has improved during his time with the Knicks, but it was never going to reach Thibs standards for getting real playing time when it mattered. Coach Spins did a piece on Toppin prior to the 2020 draft (https://bballwriters.com/nba-draft/2020-nba-draft-the-curious-athleticism-of-obi-toppin/) that said he had 'Enes Kanter' level defense. To be fair, that was straight out of college, but as a 22 year old draftee. He has improved, but it seems like he was never going to get up to Coach Thibs standards.

On the flip side, He is better suited to transition, open court (as long as he doesn't have to handle), fast play. He is a good cutter, and has improved as a shooter. He should play really well with Hali. He's very good at full speed, but he doesn't seem to have the quickness or lateral explosion to be effective changing speeds at the NBA level? His best fit might be a small 5 in a transition offense?

[Nazrmohamed]

Knicks fan here in peace.

I'm so happy for Obi that he gets to go to the Pacers of all teams. Great culture, a point guard who sees everything on the floor and pushes pace. You guys know better than me but if you guys play a lick of pick and roll he'll thrive there. I don't see him in any way being a starter. Here in NY half our fanbase hates Julius Randle so anybody who could replace him they hyped up. Obi has limitation that hurt him in his goal of starting. He really really sucks at defense. There's just no way around that. You always have to hide him on defense and still he gets beat backdoor on wing-like 4s and dominated inside by traditional. That's the most glaring weakness. And on a team that wants to grind defend and then is very deliberate on offfense with our read and react stuff, his skillset was often wasted in a starting context.

He's also not the best rebounder. I've seen him rebound well a few times, but not consistently. He rebounds in a high pace environment but not in the half court.

Off the bench he was an excellent option. A total change of pace and when you add Quickley who just creates pace. Him and Obi thrived together in those roles. I don't have any stats but it feels like Obi gets two fast break dunks a game and plays 15minutes. He passes. He's a pace and space player, it's as simple as that. And when I think of Haliburton and what he can do and the way he sees the floor ya never know. I just know the Pacers to value defense as much as we do historically so he may not start but he's for sure a fan favorite off the bench at the very least. Instant energy. You've heard that he only plays well in pace, he CREATES the high pace. That needs to be stated. He creates space. From the second there's a rebound he's racing down court, you can't miss him. This year his FG% went down but if you look closer you'll understand that because he took more 3s. So when Obi would play with starters often times Brunson and RJ took the lead, pounding the air out of the ball, while Obi spread out. From the bench he was more dynamic. More drives, more dunks. We just play faster in our second unit.

As far as starts, he averages 20pts in starts. Don't mean he's a starter but there is definitely more to be released, on a team that has a PG I really respect.

[TyCobb]

Great pickup for the Pacers.

[KnixtapeH20]

If he could play defense, Thibs would have found a way to get him minutes. Right? Even with Randle there. He’d have made it work.

Or are you saying that Obi is a really good offensive player, and a good defensive player and Thibs just had him traded for only 2 2nds? That would be pretty damning of NY management that they would make that poor of a trade.

I'm saying it didn't matter what Obi did on the court once Randle won Thibs COTY and got himself MIP. Randle is a bum and even when Obi was lighting it up, improved his 3, blocking shots, grabbing rebounds, he was never rewarded with more minutes.

One little mistake and he was always pulled. Even if we were getting blown out by 30 Randle would still be in to finish the games.... Thibs is a dinosaur.. the game has past him by years ago. Nobody will ever give him another coaching job after this yet we treat him like he's untouchable and let him make all personnel decisions.

IMO,.. you're both right. Toppin did improve every year. Coach Thibs never really did try to develop him. Probably because his defense was so bad to start with. It has improved during his time with the Knicks, but it was never going to reach Thibs standards for getting real playing time when it mattered. Coach Spins did a piece on Toppin prior to the 2020 draft (https://bballwriters.com/nba-draft/2020-nba-draft-the-curious-athleticism-of-obi-toppin/) that said he had 'Enes Kanter' level defense. To be fair, that was straight out of college, but as a 22 year old draftee. He has improved, but it seems like he was never going to get up to Coach Thibs standards.

On the flip side, He is better suited to transition, open court (as long as he doesn't have to handle), fast play. He is a good cutter, and has improved as a shooter. He should play really well with Hali. He's very good at full speed, but he doesn't seem to have the quickness or lateral explosion to be effective changing speeds at the NBA level? His best fit might be a small 5 in a transition offense?

Thibs doesn't care about defense. If he did Randle wouldn't be playing so much or he'd hold him accountable for his piss poor effort.

Also Deuce would actually be getting minutes not DNP's

[Scoot McGroot]

You know nothing about Obi Toppin or the Knicks w this statement...

He was traded bc Julius Randle is Thibs pet. They tied at the hip no matter how bad Randle plays, no player accountability, no matter how good Obi plays he was never rewarded.

He improved his game every season,that includes his defense

If he could play defense, Thibs would have found a way to get him minutes. Right? Even with Randle there. He’d have made it work.

Or are you saying that Obi is a really good offensive player, and a good defensive player and Thibs just had him traded for only 2 2nds? That would be pretty damning of NY management that they would make that poor of a trade.

I'm saying it didn't matter what Obi did on the court once Randle won Thibs COTY and got himself MIP. Randle is a bum and even when Obi was lighting it up, improved his 3, blocking shots, grabbing rebounds, he was never rewarded with more minutes.

One little mistake and he was always pulled. Even if we were getting blown out by 30 Randle would still be in to finish the games.... Thibs is a dinosaur.. the game has past him by years ago. Nobody will ever give him another coaching job after this yet we treat him like he's untouchable and let him make all personnel decisions.

Ah. So Obi is a great offensive player annd defender and this was just a fireable offense by NYK management that Indy will reap the benefits of?

Or….

Is it possible that Obi is a flawed player that had lost value on the market because he lacks important aspects to his game?

[Pacersike]

Or….

Is it possible that Obi is a flawed player that had lost value on the market because he lacks important aspects to his game?

NBA mock drafts also happen with a lot of knowledge.

Who are we to say that Obi will never become a star? A lot more is possible than what's not possible.

[Scoot McGroot]

Or….

Is it possible that Obi is a flawed player that had lost value on the market because he lacks important aspects to his game?

NBA mock drafts also happen with a lot of knowledge.

Who are we to say that Obi will never become a star? A lot more is possible than what's not possible.

Who are we to say that Obi will become a star? Possible and impossible are the same, but only two letters different.


We can say whatever we want. Generally though, past performance is the best indicator of future performance. He could be a star! He could also not be in the league in a couple years. Both are possible, are they not? Clearly, the Knicks did not think that stardom was likely, or they would have driven a harder bargain, I imagine?

[KnixtapeH20]

Or….

Is it possible that Obi is a flawed player that had lost value on the market because he lacks important aspects to his game?

NBA mock drafts also happen with a lot of knowledge.

Who are we to say that Obi will never become a star? A lot more is possible than what's not possible.

I guarantee you had Obi started his rookie year on a young team like Indiana or somewhere he would of won ROTY or at the very least been in the running. Instesd he played 10mpg GARBAGE TIME minutes... not like he was getting actual burn

[SmashMouthRod]

Not a bad risk. But I think guys like Justin Holiday who just signed with Denver may have been a better fit with these guards. Former Pacer guys like Holiday and MCBuckets wouldve been great fits with the Tyrese, Math, Sheppard, Walker core.

[Tom White]

Not a bad risk. But I think guys like Justin Holiday who just signed with Denver may have been a better fit with these guards.

I prefer to see what these new guys can do. To me, Holiday is "just a guy", or as I've said before, an "also ran". We've been there, done that, don't wish to do it again.

[Nuntius]

Great deal. Nobody cares about 2nds and if he sucks we just let him go. Love this move. Can he play a lick of defense though?

I'm replying here because I cannot send you a PM yet. The admin is trying to find a solution to that issue but he's just as stumped as we are. I hope that he finds a solution soon!

[Nazrmohamed]

Or….

Is it possible that Obi is a flawed player that had lost value on the market because he lacks important aspects to his game?

NBA mock drafts also happen with a lot of knowledge.

Who are we to say that Obi will never become a star? A lot more is possible than what's not possible.

I guarantee you had Obi started his rookie year on a young team like Indiana or somewhere he would of won ROTY or at the very least been in the running. Instesd he played 10mpg GARBAGE TIME minutes... not like he was getting actual burn

ROTY isn't really the best indicator. Lots of guys go to a simple easy system and look good and then can't contribute to winning. I'm not saying that's who Obi is but it's somewhere worse than what you're describing and higher than NY fans who all of a sudden wanna treat him like he couldn't help.

He's an energy guy. I think Pacers fans will love him and his attitude. They'll probably play him more than we did but at the end of the day will realize you can't start him. There are some guys who play 13yrs in this league bouncing around being that for many teams. That spark plug and I think thats what he'll do. Then again idk how the Pacers play, that's why I left it up to Pacers fans. I do think if his team were one of those constant screen and roll teams we mightve seen him as a Blake Griffin lite. Just remember that Blake lite currently doesn't start. I mean, it really old Blake but old Blake is probably just about as good as Obi is right now so... .

[Scoot McGroot]

NBA mock drafts also happen with a lot of knowledge.

Who are we to say that Obi will never become a star? A lot more is possible than what's not possible.

I guarantee you had Obi started his rookie year on a young team like Indiana or somewhere he would of won ROTY or at the very least been in the running. Instesd he played 10mpg GARBAGE TIME minutes... not like he was getting actual burn

ROTY isn't really the best indicator. Lots of guys go to a simple easy system and look good and then can't contribute to winning. I'm not saying that's who Obi is but it's somewhere worse than what you're describing and higher than NY fans who all of a sudden wanna treat him like he couldn't help.

He's an energy guy. I think Pacers fans will love him and his attitude. They'll probably play him more than we did but at the end of the day will realize you can't start him. There are some guys who play 13yrs in this league bouncing around being that for many teams. That spark plug and I think thats what he'll do. Then again idk how the Pacers play, that's why I left it up to Pacers fans. I do think if his team were one of those constant screen and roll teams we mightve seen him as a Blake Griffin lite. Just remember that Blake lite currently doesn't start. I mean, it really old Blake but old Blake is probably just about as good as Obi is right now so... .

Yeah, Christian Wood is a really talented scorer, but he's constantly available on the market. I think we can see if Obi even gets to that level?

[FlyingArrow]

I hope we get to see what Obi can do when actually given an opportunity, and when playing with a point guard who knows how to find him for an ally-oop and fast breaks.

He beats the defense down the court more often than any power forward should ever be able to. Check out 3:24 in this highlight reel for a good example. He's not just cherry-picking - he just outruns the defense. That happens a lot, but that might be the cleanest example in the highlight reel. Most of the clips show him when he's already past the halfcourt line.

Watch on YouTube

He points at the rim with an open path to the basket a number of times in that highlight reel. Unfortunately, there isn't a reel of all the times he has that path and points, but doesn't get the pass. I'd guess that the Knicks fed him an ally-oop less than half the time that it was available. Same thing with the fast break - there are plenty of times that he beat the defense down the court but didn't get the outlet pass for the easy bucket.

For fast breaks and ally-oops, he isn't creating a shot by himself, but he does get himself in position for easy shots if a teammate gets it to him.

He's a career 32.5% 3pt shooter. 30% as a reserve. 44% as a starter. That's a crazy discrepancy, and I think that has a lot to do with him just being able to get into a rhythm as a starter. (Thanks for nothing, Thibs.) I think 44% is too much to hope for, but he should end up being a 35-40% 3pt shooter for you.

If he starts, I'd expect him to easily average 15-20pts. More than that is possible if he and Haliburton make good connections quickly.