2023 Pacers offseason

Post #321 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:15 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:Kendall Brown and Tshiebwe are 2 ways. I don’t remember if the third 2 way has been assigned to Wong ? I’m pretty sure Mojave King is going over seas.

Yup. Wong is the 3rd 2 way and Mojave is going overseas.

Wizop · Post #322 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:16 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:Kendall Brown and Tshiebwe are 2 ways. I don’t remember if the third 2 way has been assigned to Wong ? I’m pretty sure Mojave King is going over seas.

that's right, Tshiebwe and Wong signed two-ways right after the draft. I have no idea why Brown's signing was delayed. maybe they wanted to have him demonstrate his health at summer league. he also might have been holding out in hopes a trade opened up a regular roster spot but that can happen later. he's athletic and can defend but needs to develop a shot in the G-league.

Post #323 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:16 pm

Barring a consolidation trade, this is likely the roster for the season.

Wizop · Post #324 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:20 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Barring a consolidation trade, this is likely the roster for the season.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Suns found a third team to make it possible for them to get TJ for draft capital and then we could resign G Hill.

Post #325 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:29 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Barring a consolidation trade, this is likely the roster for the season.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Suns found a third team to make it possible for them to get TJ for draft capital and then we could resign G Hill.

Until mid-December, Phoenix can only really match the salary for TJ by moving one of Ayton, Beal, Booker, or Durant. It’s not so much the value as it is the salary matching right now.

Wizop · Post #326 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:47 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Until mid-December, Phoenix can only really match the salary for TJ by moving one of Ayton, Beal, Booker, or Durant. It’s not so much the value as it is the salary matching right now.

December is much better for us. I've played with rotations and some leave TJ out and others leave Nesmith out. does Brown start at 2 with Mathurin at 3 or does Nembhard start at 2 with Brown at 3? or??? today we're guessing. by December, we'll gave game tape showing what worked and what didn't work.

Post #327 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:32 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Until mid-December, Phoenix can only really match the salary for TJ by moving one of Ayton, Beal, Booker, or Durant. It’s not so much the value as it is the salary matching right now.

December is much better for us. I've played with rotations and some leave TJ out and others leave Nesmith out. does Brown start at 2 with Mathurin at 3 or does Nembhard start at 2 with Brown at 3? or??? today we're guessing. by December, we'll gave game tape showing what worked and what didn't work.

If TJ is to go to Phoenix, it’s likely in a TJ/Myles for Ayton type swap. Otherwise, Phoenix would have to aggregate 3 or more guys to match for TJ, and Indy would have to waive 2 to get it done.

Wizop · Post #328 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:56 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:If TJ is to go to Phoenix, it’s likely in a TJ/Myles for Ayton type swap. Otherwise, Phoenix would have to aggregate 3 or more guys to match for TJ, and Indy would have to waive 2 to get it done.

I hope we don't do that. if they want him badly enough, I hope they'd send the extra players to another team(s) that can take them into cap space or an exemption.

Post #329 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:06 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If TJ is to go to Phoenix, it’s likely in a TJ/Myles for Ayton type swap. Otherwise, Phoenix would have to aggregate 3 or more guys to match for TJ, and Indy would have to waive 2 to get it done.

I hope we don't do that. if they want him badly enough, I hope they'd send the extra players to another team(s) that can take them into cap space or an exemption.

Sure. But they only have 3 real 2nd rounders left to trade. The other 2 are “lesser of” 2 other poor 2nds or top 44 protected. If players are to be dumped on other teams, then those other teams are to get those 2nds, too. There’d be nothing left for us for dealing TJ. They’re even almost topped out on sending cash this year (about $1m left to send out total).

Any deals with Phoenix are tough.

JMaster5K · Post #330 » by **JMaster5K** » Thu Aug 3, 2023 12:48 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If TJ is to go to Phoenix, it’s likely in a TJ/Myles for Ayton type swap. Otherwise, Phoenix would have to aggregate 3 or more guys to match for TJ, and Indy would have to waive 2 to get it done.

I hope we don't do that. if they want him badly enough, I hope they'd send the extra players to another team(s) that can take them into cap space or an exemption.

Sure. But they only have 3 real 2nd rounders left to trade. The other 2 are “lesser of” 2 other poor 2nds or top 44 protected. If players are to be dumped on other teams, then those other teams are to get those 2nds, too. There’d be nothing left for us for dealing TJ. They’re even almost topped out on sending cash this year (about $1m left to send out total).

Any deals with Phoenix are tough.

Maybe it's just the cynic in me,... but I keep thinking that Phoenix may be working another deal in the background for a backup point guard? and leaking the 'interest' in TJ to show they have other options? Your point about the Suns draft assets is well made.

After moving Payne, I just don't see any combination of players on their roster that would create enough interest for a receiving team to give up enough value for us to move TJ. I don't really believe the Pacers are (or were) actually interested in Ayton. Maybe one of those pictures where the 'smoke' viewed from a distance turns out to be fog?.... o0

Post #331 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Aug 3, 2023 1:15 pm

JMaster5K wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:
I hope we don't do that. if they want him badly enough, I hope they'd send the extra players to another team(s) that can take them into cap space or an exemption.

Sure. But they only have 3 real 2nd rounders left to trade. The other 2 are “lesser of” 2 other poor 2nds or top 44 protected. If players are to be dumped on other teams, then those other teams are to get those 2nds, too. There’d be nothing left for us for dealing TJ. They’re even almost topped out on sending cash this year (about $1m left to send out total).

Any deals with Phoenix are tough.

Maybe it's just the cynic in me,... but I keep thinking that Phoenix may be working another deal in the background for a backup point guard? and leaking the 'interest' in TJ to show they have other options? Your point about the Suns draft assets is well made.

Maybe. But I’m not sure that motivates Indy. Prevent if TJ doesn’t play, even if Nembhard just buries him, he still has a ton of value as a vet leader to this roster. And teams are ALWAYS looking for solid vet PG help at the deadline. And he’s still cheap.

But if Phoenix had another PG option lined up, they would still have the same issues of no matching salary and poor assets in return.

After moving Payne, I just don't see any combination of players on their roster that would create enough interest for a receiving team to give up enough value for us to move TJ. I don't really believe the Pacers are (or were) actually interested in Ayton. Maybe one of those pictures where the 'smoke' viewed from a distance turns out to be fog?.... o0

I don’t think Indy has interest in acquiring Ayton, but I think Phoenix might have interest in turning Ayton into affordable help that fits better like Turner and TJ. Remember, Turner and TJ combined make about $3m less than Ayton this year, and for a team deep into the tax, that’s a major difference.

JMaster5K · Post #332 » by **JMaster5K** » Thu Aug 3, 2023 1:32 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Maybe. But I’m not sure that motivates Indy. Prevent if TJ doesn’t play, even if Nembhard just buries him, he still has a ton of value as a vet leader to this roster. And teams are ALWAYS looking for solid vet PG help at the deadline. And he’s still cheap.

But if Phoenix had another PG option lined up, they would still have the same issues of no matching salary and poor assets in return.

I agree with your valuation of TJ. His interview after coming to Indy was enlightening. He said at that time, he could end up as a 3rd point guard, that he was brought in to challenge & motivate Aaron Holiday behind Malcolm. He understood that could happen. If he still has that mindset,. he could be in an even better position now as a veteran, teacher for Nembhard and a certain extent, even Ty?

I guess my point was that maybe Phoenix isn't trying to motivate Indy at all,.. maybe they are actually focused on trying to motivate someone else & Indy is only some leverage?

Scoot McGroot wrote:
I don’t think Indy has interest in acquiring Ayton, but I think Phoenix might have interest in turning Ayton into affordable help that fits better like Turner and TJ. Remember, Turner and TJ combined make about $3m less than Ayton this year, and for a team deep into the tax, that’s a major difference.

Yup,.. again,. I agree. I don't believe the Pacers have any real interest in Ayton. Myles fits better, seems to have a better motor,.. and is cheaper. I don't really believe the Pacers had a real interest in Ayton when he signed the offer sheet. I think they already knew that Phoenix would match. =]

The Suns are probably looking at several ways to lower their salary, and fill holes, and they know they have to find teams with relatively clean books to have any chance to make that happen.

JMaster5K · Post #333 » by **JMaster5K** » Thu Aug 3, 2023 1:36 pm

To each & all in this thread,.....

Thank you for the conversation. Really appreciate your thoughts and views. Born & raised in Indy,.. now live overseas,... If I mention Pacers here,. people ask if I mean cricket pitchers or racing horses,...... so, REALLY missed the chat about the home team. =]

JMaster5K · Post #334 » by **JMaster5K** » Mon Aug 7, 2023 12:17 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If TJ is to go to Phoenix, it’s likely in a TJ/Myles for Ayton type swap. Otherwise, Phoenix would have to aggregate 3 or more guys to match for TJ, and Indy would have to waive 2 to get it done.

I hope we don't do that. if they want him badly enough, I hope they'd send the extra players to another team(s) that can take them into cap space or an exemption.

From a B/R article, quoting Stein,.. 'The trade is far from likely at the moment, however, per Stein. Of note, McConnell reportedly wants to stay in Indiana.'

For me, (maybe not for the team,...) that settles the TJ question. He can see this team developing better than those outside the team. For me, if he wants to be here, he should be.