Post draft thoughts

[Pacers Forever]

A place to give your assessment, gripes, or praise of the draft.

My thoughts a day later are the following:

Pacers got their power forward of the future at pick 8
I applaud the pick even though I wanted Hendricks and Walker was my second choice.

Pick #26 most likely will be polarizing to some Pacer fans. I think they got the best talent available at that time instead of positional need. This screams to me that forward position talent became weak somewhere between pick #8 and #26. Obviously they couldn’t justify a move up or simply couldn’t move up from #26.

The draft pick trade moves they executed were a positive. Immediate effect was to move a first round pick until next year which was smart. We now see the second objective was to move the early second round pick into 2 way territory to not have to use a roster spot other than for the the #8 and #26 picks which makes sense.

My feelings are mixed. I feel like it was a successful draft, but not as good as last season’s draft. I feel disappointed that they couldn’t move up (by whatever means necessary) and take a second difference making forward instead of having to settle for BPA on #26. Didn’t really care about even owning the 2 second round picks and didn’t expect anything to come out of them.

I get Wacko’s frustration. I wish they could have done more also. I get people’s frustration over us not taking TJD, but now see it was for the best.

I now can only hope that KP makes a trade or FA signing that drastically improves the roster and that they say no to Hill, Johnson, Brissett, and York.

If they trade away Duarte and Smith I’m good with that. However, Buddy and McConnell need to be retained another year. Nwora, Nesmith and I Jax have another year to prove they belong in our future as role players.

[Pacers_Freak]

I was relatively pleased. Addressed the issue at PF. No problem with going for BPA at 26. I think it’s easy to forget how hard it is to pick in the 20s. Sure we can all find really good players that were picked late or after bust picks of ours. But this is not an exclusive Pacers problem. It is a crapshoot down there and in the 2nd round even more so. I have no problem with what was done. But I mean none of us really know, hell they dont know. We will all find out in a couple years how good or bad last night was.

[Tom White]

I now can only hope that KP makes a trade or FA signing that drastically improves the roster and that they say no to Hill, Johnson, Brissett, and York.

If they trade away Duarte and Smith I’m good with that. However, Buddy and McConnell need to be retained another year. Nwora, Nesmith and I Jax have another year to prove they belong in our future as role players.

I'm good with all of that.

[Pacersike]

The Pacers are making moves again with (small) gain and that's a better way for us to build a contender than mostly depending on the body and mind of 1 player like Victor. Since Rick and others joined, we have a better team to build a contender.

Let's make the playoffs next season!

[Pacers Forever]

The Pacers are making moves again with (small) gain and that's a better way for us to build a contender than mostly depending on the body and mind of 1 player like Victor. Since Rick and others joined, we have a better team to build a contender.

Let's make the playoffs next season!

Ike I agree and absolutely the next step is the playoffs then the following year improve back to a yearly contender.

[basketballwacko2]

Garbage! A blind chimp could have done as well. Looks like 35 wins and the treadmill to the lottery! We have become the Charlotto Bobhornets.

[basketballwacko2]

I get Wacko’s frustration. I wish they could have done more also. I get people’s frustration over us not taking TJD, but now see it was for the best.

This draft was a waste and if Walker doesn't turn out to the be the 2nd coming of Jarrad Mustaf there's another blown season as the worst rebounding team in the NBA. We can watch other teams get 3-4 shots at it because we're playing 4 guards.

Like I said last night it was not just TJD, they drafted a guy who at 6'5'' duplicates at least 3 other players currently on the roster, Duarte, Mathurin and Nesmith all the same size same skill set, how many do you need? Who IDK lets draft another guy the same damn size at 47. Oh but you say nothing ever comes from the 2nd round picks, ok why use them?

It was not about TJD although he was the best player to help this team now on the board at 26, 47 and at 55. But there was Julian Strawther at 26 and Leonard Miller, Mouhamed Gueye Brice Sensabaugh. There were Eurostash players like James Nnaji, and Tristan Vukcevic who could have been take.

This reminds me too much of 2017 when they passed on OG, Collins, Kuzma, Allen and Hart and took a freshman from UCLA who never did a damned thing for the Pacers. All those other guys still playing and Leaf is most likely working the drive thru window at a Rally's.

I did at first like the trades, but since last night I've developed some contempt for the trade wit the Lakers what good does it do this team to go from 40 to 47 and get $4 million? Where does the $4 million go? Does it help win games? And the trade with Washington for Walker and distant 2nd round picks that won't matter because like someone said, when do our 2nds amount to anything anyhow!

[Pacernation]

First of all, I allways liked our FO and couldn't get the hate they get from some fans (guys on PD, you know who I'm talking about). I think KP got dealt a horrible hand by bird (which is back as an advisor for unknown reasons, he was trash in his last years) and made some really good trades. Then Vic got hurt and we had to start from scratch again. Maybe one season to late but we don't know what ownership told them to do, so no hard feelings there. They probably nailed last years draft (let's see if Mathurin becomes a winning player), but they blew every other opportunity the last two years and after this years draft it's my all I can stance moment.
First of all: shut the hell up before every event like trade deadline, draft or start of free agency. Every year we hear trash like "we*re going to be aggressive", "we are searching for deals" or my highlight from this year "we won't draft 5 rookies". Yeah sherlock, we draft 4 instead. Great way of making a fool of your fanbase and making yourself look like an idiot. This FO is unable to get a deal done even when they have 5 picks and every future first available. We are allready picking for fit and are searching for win now veterans but won't part with our collection of picks - no, we celebrate getting more 2nds who we now know are worth s*** and are treated like s*** by our guys in charge, but more to that later.

Now to the draft: As some folks might know, I was super high on Coulibaly and was hoping we will draft him. I think he has the potential of an All NBA first team defender on the wing and lot's of offensive upside aswell, and I think those are the kind of players every contender needs. When was the last time a power forward was a huge difference maker? Yeah Aaron Gordon did great, but without Jokic and Murray he's a footnote, and I think you can get those kind of players via trade but ok. Walker was labeled soft before the draft and I'm not sure you can get that out of players. He can't really shoot either but let's hope he improves there. I'm willing to give him a chance and won't trash the FO for that pick. Let's see how this turns out three years from now.
Now to the point that f'n pisses me off. We got pick #26, #29, #32 and 55. Not super good but a base to work with. We let people know before the draft that we won't use all of them, devaluing them from the start, but ok - not the biggest of deals, but still. So where do we go from here? A day ahead of the draft we trade #29 and #32 (some could argue even more worthy than a late first) for a future first (in a draft that is labeled trash) and pick #40. You mean to tell me that this deal wasn't available on draft night? Why burn assets when opportunities might come up that you couldn't even think of (Whitmore for example, or other guys that dropped). This is bulls*** number one.
So where do we go from here? We trade #40 for #47 and Cash. I could live with that if we would package #47 in another deal, but if you want to draft in that range, that is just a joke. This screams "Let's make the owner happy with cash so he ignores our ineptitude". Winning teams don't do s*** like that.
What's next? We of course are unable to package our remaining picks and draft THREE GUARDS. I don't mind picking Sheppard in a vacuum, but this team needs size at the forward spots for years now. So why not take a swing at a bigger player, since guard is the easiest position to find in the NBA. Tons of guards where picked in the first round again so there will be NBA level guard players available. So why do we pick another guard when the majority of our team are NBA level guards allready??
But ok.. we won't take on 4 rookies so they will surely trade our remaining seconds which they traded down two times allready. OF COURSE NOT. They have the freakin nerve to use those picks and take on TWO MORE GUARDS. Those guys will probably never sniff an NBA court and most guys in that range won't but why not even try to get players that could be useful for your team. Even if they won't make it you gotta take a swing - and why the f do you trade high seconds for trash if you will use those picks and you're desperate finding talent? When they used those picks on these two guys I realized this FO views seconds as a joke and where absolutely uprepared to draft in this range. People celebrating the future seconds we get left and right but they are not more than a "wink, wink, we got some assets here. Look what a great job we're doing.", when in reality you gotta use 4-5 seconds to get a bench player that won't sniff a serious playoffrotation. F this.
This was a chance to really make a move and those guys blew it because they are lazy and afraid of taking risks. They accumulate picks to make the fans believe that they are doing a great job, when in reality they do s***. Everybody here couldn't have done a worse job than those clowns did yesterday. What a slap in the face for fans of this team and they better come up big in free agency (which they won't) to compensate for this fiasco. I'm just f'n done. Thank you KP.
/rant off

[basketballwacko2]

Let's not forget that KP is the guy who took Greg Oden over Kevin Durant! And Chad Buchannon came from the Hornets! Lots of great draft picks by Charlotto while he was there! And Larry Bird was a great player but he's a joke as a GM or personnel director.

Last year they got lucky with Mathurin and Nembhard but this year they screwed the pooch.


This just reminds me of 2017 too much, the same guys here on this board were telling me the same tripe about how TJ Leaf was better than Collins, OG, Kuzma and Allen, all still in the nba by the way, something that TJ Leaf is not.

[Wizop]

Pick #26 most likely will be polarizing to some Pacer fans. I think they got the best talent available at that time instead of positional need. This screams to me that forward position talent became weak somewhere between pick #8 and #26. Obviously they couldn’t justify a move up or simply couldn’t move up from #26.

in a radio interview yesterday they said they'd tried to move up for Whitmore but couldn't find a trading partner.

[Grang33r]

If they trade away Duarte and Smith I’m good with that. However, Buddy and McConnell need to be retained another year. Nwora, Nesmith and I Jax have another year to prove they belong in our future as role players.

Great post, Pacers forever! Really enjoyed reading that.

I agree with everything you wrote in there. As for Hield, I always felt like this too until I saw his house last year when Pacers went there for a practice. He probably trying to get there sooner then later.

[Grang33r]

Let's not forget that KP is the guy who took Greg Oden over Kevin Durant! And Chad Buchannon came from the Hornets! Lots of great draft picks by Charlotto while he was there! And Larry Bird was a great player but he's a joke as a GM or personnel director.

Every GM and decision marker in any sport will have a long list of failures. Except maybe Pat Riley. Lol At the time of the draft, Oden was the consensus #1 pick and who knows how it would’ve worked out if not for injuries.

I also like this front office. Saying they got lucky with last years draft but that’s not the flex you think it is. Drafting and developing the right guy takes luck for any team. On top of getting lucky at the draft, they also got pretty lucky getting Haliburton for Sabonis.

[Pacers Forever]

First of all, I allways liked our FO and couldn't get the hate they get from some fans (guys on PD, you know who I'm talking about). I think KP got dealt a horrible hand by bird (which is back as an advisor for unknown reasons, he was trash in his last years) and made some really good trades. Then Vic got hurt and we had to start from scratch again. Maybe one season to late but we don't know what ownership told them to do, so no hard feelings there. They probably nailed last years draft (let's see if Mathurin becomes a winning player), but they blew every other opportunity the last two years and after this years draft it's my all I can stance moment.
First of all: shut the hell up before every event like trade deadline, draft or start of free agency. Every year we hear trash like "we*re going to be aggressive", "we are searching for deals" or my highlight from this year "we won't draft 5 rookies". Yeah sherlock, we draft 4 instead. Great way of making a fool of your fanbase and making yourself look like an idiot. This FO is unable to get a deal done even when they have 5 picks and every future first available. We are allready picking for fit and are searching for win now veterans but won't part with our collection of picks - no, we celebrate getting more 2nds who we now know are worth s*** and are treated like s*** by our guys in charge, but more to that later.

Now to the draft: As some folks might know, I was super high on Coulibaly and was hoping we will draft him. I think he has the potential of an All NBA first team defender on the wing and lot's of offensive upside aswell, and I think those are the kind of players every contender needs. When was the last time a power forward was a huge difference maker? Yeah Aaron Gordon did great, but without Jokic and Murray he's a footnote, and I think you can get those kind of players via trade but ok. Walker was labeled soft before the draft and I'm not sure you can get that out of players. He can't really shoot either but let's hope he improves there. I'm willing to give him a chance and won't trash the FO for that pick. Let's see how this turns out three years from now.
Now to the point that f'n pisses me off. We got pick #26, #29, #32 and 55. Not super good but a base to work with. We let people know before the draft that we won't use all of them, devaluing them from the start, but ok - not the biggest of deals, but still. So where do we go from here? A day ahead of the draft we trade #29 and #32 (some could argue even more worthy than a late first) for a future first (in a draft that is labeled trash) and pick #40. You mean to tell me that this deal wasn't available on draft night? Why burn assets when opportunities might come up that you couldn't even think of (Whitmore for example, or other guys that dropped). This is bulls*** number one.
So where do we go from here? We trade #40 for #47 and Cash. I could live with that if we would package #47 in another deal, but if you want to draft in that range, that is just a joke. This screams "Let's make the owner happy with cash so he ignores our ineptitude". Winning teams don't do s*** like that.
What's next? We of course are unable to package our remaining picks and draft THREE GUARDS. I don't mind picking Sheppard in a vacuum, but this team needs size at the forward spots for years now. So why not take a swing at a bigger player, since guard is the easiest position to find in the NBA. Tons of guards where picked in the first round again so there will be NBA level guard players available. So why do we pick another guard when the majority of our team are NBA level guards allready??
But ok.. we won't take on 4 rookies so they will surely trade our remaining seconds which they traded down two times allready. OF COURSE NOT. They have the freakin nerve to use those picks and take on TWO MORE GUARDS. Those guys will probably never sniff an NBA court and most guys in that range won't but why not even try to get players that could be useful for your team. Even if they won't make it you gotta take a swing - and why the f do you trade high seconds for trash if you will use those picks and you're desperate finding talent? When they used those picks on these two guys I realized this FO views seconds as a joke and where absolutely uprepared to draft in this range. People celebrating the future seconds we get left and right but they are not more than a "wink, wink, we got some assets here. Look what a great job we're doing.", when in reality you gotta use 4-5 seconds to get a bench player that won't sniff a serious playoffrotation. F this.
This was a chance to really make a move and those guys blew it because they are lazy and afraid of taking risks. They accumulate picks to make the fans believe that they are doing a great job, when in reality they do s***. Everybody here couldn't have done a worse job than those clowns did yesterday. What a slap in the face for fans of this team and they better come up big in free agency (which they won't) to compensate for this fiasco. I'm just f'n done. Thank you KP.
/rant off

I had guest reading access here for maybe 5-10 years or so before finally getting my account accepted last year so I could post. So I agree I’ve had issues with Simon, Donnie Walsh, Larry Bird, etc from day 1. I’ve also seen KP be terrible and also good.

I think the biggest problem is the owner. I’m glad Simon saved the franchise from moving and appears to be invested in Indiana/Indianapolis. The negative is that he hasn’t assembled the best front office and we may never get a great front office until he sells the franchise. Secondly we don’t have the salary flexibility that some teams have to have bigger payroll.

I get the feeling that the front office is VERY comfortable and never under fire. I don’t know anything about Buchanan or Kraus. Having Bird around makes it feel like an old boys club. Luckily Isiah Thomas isn’t here also lol.

I blame the early entry policies into the league causing the talent pool to be diluted. So second round picks are difficult at best to make and be successful at and most players don’t make it for long into the league if ever. I wish the Pacers front office would value second round picks less. Concentrate more on first round pick acquisition and trading with weaker teams rather than higher first round picks which weren’t tradable to move up.

Positive #1 Pacers definitely held more than enough workouts the last 2 years to get a feel of the prospects growth, strengths, weaknesses, and character. So due diligence was served. Of course we don’t know the level of interest that the Pacers have after viewing their workouts.

I feel like they are disappointed with many players that aren’t NBA ready. Even though it was a guard heavy draft I feel like the forwards they wanted weren’t accessible due to their inability to get in position to draft them. That’s on the Front office.

Positive #2 is I now believe that KP has brought in a decent coaching staff as I definitely had my doubts.
Rick Carlisle might be the next GM someday. For player acquisition I do like former connected coaches or one time players credentials.

I believe if they can become successful in Free Agency (since Tyrese arrived) and can attract top talent players they have a good plan to build a championship contender. Obviously the draft isn’t going to do it as the record rises and the draft position becomes worse. Trades and FA look like the only path forward now in maintaining a top tier contender. They also have to develop their young role players into contributors and coveted players so that they can receive adequate talent back in trades.

[Wizop]

I wish the Pacers front office would value second round picks less.

It's draft week so the second round picks are fresh in our minds but they didn't value them well enough to even bring them to town. Apart from Nembhard who was a high second our team is built on first round picks many of whom were traded for after they were drafted.

I think there is a valid question one can ask about team goals but I don't think focusing on the draft gets you there. Setting the brawl years aside, the team has been competitive for a very long time but only got to the finals once. Was that good enough should they have employed more of a boom and bust strategy? I had a ticket package almost every year from the 70s until COVID. I really enjoyed the last 25 years even though we topped at the conference finals. I don't regret that we didn't play the massive payroll approach that the Warriors and a few other teams did. Some will say we were too much of a treadmill team. Not me.

[granger05]

I think I preferred Cam Whitmore or Taylor Hendricks at #8, but Jarace Walker was right there and I hope I'm wrong. I just liked those two both a little better. Hendricks had more length and Whitmore seemed more aggressive though I do think he overlaps skills with Mathurin.

I don't know much about Ben Sheppard other than what I've since read about him. These later picks are all a crap shoot so I don't mind locking in a player that looks to be a rotation piece at that spot.

I liked the deals to move back or out and pickup future draft equity. We're seeing a lot of teams making moves right now to deal with the new CBA and the 2nd apron. I think we're well positioned to benefit from that. Some of these teams are really squeezing their depth. I think we have a lot of serviceable players at varying levels of experience that we've given valuable playing time to this last season. I think all of McConnell, Theis, Smith, Nesmith and Nwora could help some teams if we are making a trade to take on salary. Duarte and Jackson still have some upside as well.

I don't think we blew the draft out of the water or anything, but I'm satisfied and hopeful for some moves in the upcoming free agency period to get us back on the rise.

[Topofthekey]

I think Carlisle has affected Pacers ability to draft well in a very real and positive way

Mathurin is a find. So is Nembhard

Duarte might have struggled in his second year, but he's still the right pick

And going back to his Mavericks years, Carlisle was the one who pushed for Luka

I feel good about Walker and Sheppard

Don't know what Bird's involvement was though. Maybe he was bored in retirement and wanted something to do

[JMaster5K]

I think the FO did well with Shephard. The more I see him play the more he reminds me of Kevin Huerter, though Huerter may be the slightly better athlete. He's got a few things to work out, but at pick 26, he could end up starting at SG by end of the 23-24 season? He can shoot the ball, but also can defend the point, stop ball in transition, get out on the floor & slow down the opponents offense. I keep hoping to see the point defense from Duarte, but haven't seen it yet. Defense was always going to be part of the learning curve for Mathurin. He looks like he will get there. Shephard could step in early to fill that role. His measurements at the combine were very similar to Huerter, quick, good body control, & fast (for position) though with slightly less vertical explosion and length than Huerter.

[8305]

I liked Hendricks better than Walker and I've grown to be a skeptic of Pacers drafting competence. 2017-2021 was just plain bad on so many levels. Moving to 2022 I'm less sold on Mathurin than most here. Second half of last season he was the anti-3 and D guy. Bad defender and bad shooter. I'm willing to drink the "he wants to get better and is so coachable" cool aide for now and Nembhard was a solid get at 31. Overall last year's draft bought back a little credibility.

I don't buy the Walker comparisons with Hansborugh. Tyler was an old player with non-existent feel for the game. The guys I hoped for at pick 26 Whitehead, Murray and Prosper were all gone so maybe at that point Shepherd just being an NBA player will look like the best we could do? TJD? I'm not sold. Good chance he would be another under-sized 5. If we don't need more 2/3's we sure as hell don't need another small backup center.

[Nuntius]

A day ahead of the draft we trade #29 and #32 (some could argue even more worthy than a late first) for a future first (in a draft that is labeled trash) and pick #40. You mean to tell me that this deal wasn't available on draft night?

1) Let's hold our horses on this whole "next year's draft is labeled trash" thing. Based on the little I've heard from people in the draft spaces (Spinella, Vecenie, Bryce Simon et cetera) the issue with next year's draft is that no clear #1 has emerged. That's where this draft is weaker than others, at the very top. The 8-20 range is supposed to be really strong and deep. We still have a year until that draft. Let's wait and see how it plays out.

2) Why are we assuming that the deal would be available at draft night? There were at least 4 other teams with multiple picks in that late 1st to early 2nd range (Brooklyn, Charlotte, Portland, Sacramento) and Boston also traded into that range during the draft. I do not think that there was any guarantee that the deal would be there on draft night.

[Scoot McGroot]

A day ahead of the draft we trade #29 and #32 (some could argue even more worthy than a late first) for a future first (in a draft that is labeled trash) and pick #40. You mean to tell me that this deal wasn't available on draft night?

1) Let's hold our horses on this whole "next year's draft is labeled trash" thing. Based on the little I've heard from people in the draft spaces (Spinella, Vecenie, Bryce Simon et cetera) the issue with next year's draft is that no clear #1 has emerged. That's where this draft is weaker than others, at the very top. The 8-20 range is supposed to be really strong and deep. We still have a year until that draft. Let's wait and see how it plays out.

2) Why are we assuming that the deal would be available at draft night? There were at least 4 other teams with multiple picks in that late 1st to early 2nd range (Brooklyn, Charlotte, Portland, Sacramento) and Boston also traded into that range during the draft. I do not think that there was any guarantee that the deal would be there on draft night.

Also, in no way is 32 more valuable than a late first. THe only benefit is that it saves a $2m cap hold, but you lose an extra cheap year of salary, and have to enter unrestricted free agency a year earlier. Add in that the 32 is likely to demand a contract with as much guaranteed money as a late first (look at Nembhard’s contract, it was roughly equal to the 28th pick last year), and there’s just no basis to argue that 32 is better than 29.