Buddy Hield Trade Rumors, Thoughts, Analysis?

[JMaster5K]

As RealGM posted this morning (Along with the IndyStar, HoopsRumors, and CBS Sports), the Pacers seem to be working with Buddy's agent to find a trade.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/273003/Pacers-Begin-Trade-Talks-On-Buddy-Hield

From all I've been able to read, so far, this doesn't seem like it's adversarial,... but a recognition that Buddy market value may likely be higher than his immediate value to the Pacers.

Thought I would open a thread specifically for this conversation (there are comments on other threads), as it looks like this could an on-going topic, that comes up at different times with some periods of no activity.

(Other thread with Buddy comments: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2320255)

Sorry, if I shouldn't be doing this,. just thought it made a little sense,... =/

[granger05]

Yeah, I think it's straightforward. We offered an extension and he wants more so we'll likely move him rather than lose him for nothing. I don't get the impression that there's any bad feelings on either side. I think the Pacers have appreciated having Buddy around and it seems like he's enjoyed his time here. Maybe everybody's a little disappointed they were far apart on contract number but otherwise it's fine.

It will be interesting to see what kinds of trades are out there. I'm sure a lot of contenders could use a guy like him, but the contract matching becomes an issue. I assume we'll get a pick and also eat another year of salary. Some options:

DAL) They could send THJ who matches Buddy but has another year. I think he's well thought of there if overpaid. He'd be a useful wing for us.

OKC) They could send Bertans (also two seasons under contract) and maybe even Oladipo's contract to shed some salary and players they don't need. I do think Buddy would help spread the floor for SGA for them and they have so much draft capital laying around that they could craft a deal that guarantees a later 1st to us in any given year. I think the extra pick we have next year already from DEN is via OKC so it could even be adjusting protections.

MIA) They could get off Robinson a year earlier, but I think they need all their draft capital for chasing Dame though maybe Hield gets roped into that with other teams. I saw some trade scenarios with Herro which I don't see working, but I know he played AAU with Haliburton and maybe they're buddies.

PHI) Package Hield with Theis and McConnell to get an expiring Harris. This fits our roster needs pretty well and we shed future salary in Theis. I never know what Philly wants to do. Harris way overpaid, but seems like a good locker room guy to take Buddy's place and he can play the wing.

MIL) They have a real gap in contracts. He makes sense there, but they'd basically have to send Grayson Allen and Pat Connaughton (who has one more year after this) to match. Can either guy play SF? I can't imagine we want EXTRA guys coming back unless it's a young guy we like.

CHI) The trade checker says Buddy for Lonzo plus Patrick Williams still fits into our cap. We eat a year of Lonzo money (does insurance cover some of this, are there exceptions Chicago already used?), but gain a nice young guy. I think PWil is a PF though and we just added Walker and Toppin. Can Williams play SF? I don't think Chicago should do this, but they do a lot of things I don't think a team should do.

LAL) I see a DLo for Hield trade floating around, but don't see how DLo fits for us. His contract is reasonable enough that it's kicking the can down the road with an asset.

[Scoot McGroot]

From what I’ve gathered, Indy has offered an extension that proves Buddy fairly assuming that Haliburton, Mathurin, and Nembhard are going to take up more of the minutes at the guard positions, and Buddy would prefer to be paid as if he’s a starter going forward.

It doesn’t sound adversarial as much as a realization that Buddy and the team have different priorities, which is fair.

[Pacers Forever]

From what I’ve gathered, Indy has offered an extension that proves Buddy fairly assuming that Haliburton, Mathurin, and Nembhard are going to take up more of the minutes at the guard positions, and Buddy would prefer to be paid as if he’s a starter going forward.

It doesn’t sound adversarial as much as a realization that Buddy and the team have different priorities, which is fair.

Like Scoot I think Buddy wants to be a starter and is balking at the new role Pritchard alluded to previously at exit meetings.

So he is asking for more $$$ to get paid better if he must stay and sacrifice his starting spot, or to find a team which will pay him and start him since he’s a veteran who believes he should be starting.

I think the time has come with this roster that Buddy becomes a second team player. I think the Buddy at the 3 position is over and the 2 position has Brown and Nembhard ahead of him.

I see the following as the starting lineup.
Haliburton
Brown
Nembhard/Nwora
Toppin
Turner

Obviously Buddy doesn’t feel like Pritchard and the coaching staff are thinking.

Personally I wish he would accept the role, excel and fit in to the team concept the coaching desires, and then maybe we trade him at the deadline after we see how our youth has developed throughout this season.

[granger05]

Athletic Article on Hield destinations

The jist of it is what's already been reported. Doesn't seem like there's a big rush on a deal or anything imminent, but they expect multiple teams to be interested which is good for us. However, they kind of just looked at teams that really need shooting and started there. There aren't any real concrete proposals in the article.

He’s one of eight players ever to make at least 1,700 career 3s on at least 40 percent shooting from deep, joining Ray Allen, Curry, Klay Thompson, Dale Ellis, Kyle Korver, JJ Redick and Peja Stojaković. That’s some absurd company to keep from beyond the arc.

[Pacers Forever]

Athletic Article on Hield destinations

The jist of it is what's already been reported. Doesn't seem like there's a big rush on a deal or anything imminent, but they expect multiple teams to be interested which is good for us. However, they kind of just looked at teams that really need shooting and started there. There aren't any real concrete proposals in the article.

He’s one of eight players ever to make at least 1,700 career 3s on at least 40 percent shooting from deep, joining Ray Allen, Curry, Klay Thompson, Dale Ellis, Kyle Korver, JJ Redick and Peja Stojaković. That’s some absurd company to keep from beyond the arc.

Exactly why he’s offensively valuable to us at big volume 40% shooting from the 3 with our 2nd unit.

Defensively though not a good fit for starting lineup but doesn’t hurt us as much on 2nd unit vs. opponents non starters.

Thus I don’t see the Pacers urgency to trade him. Regardless of chatter in league media if we can still utilize his strengths and minimize his defensive exposure to opponents starters it can benefit the team.

I hope he will buy in. I think he will be a pro and not cause problems. A lot will depend on how he plays and how our record goes in first part of the season whether circumstances will dictate a need to trade by deadline.

[JMaster5K]

Athletic Article on Hield destinations

The jist of it is what's already been reported. Doesn't seem like there's a big rush on a deal or anything imminent, but they expect multiple teams to be interested which is good for us. However, they kind of just looked at teams that really need shooting and started there. There aren't any real concrete proposals in the article.

He’s one of eight players ever to make at least 1,700 career 3s on at least 40 percent shooting from deep, joining Ray Allen, Curry, Klay Thompson, Dale Ellis, Kyle Korver, JJ Redick and Peja Stojaković. That’s some absurd company to keep from beyond the arc.

Exactly why he’s offensively valuable to us at big volume 40% shooting from the 3 with our 2nd unit.

Defensively though not a good fit for starting lineup but doesn’t hurt us as much on 2nd unit vs. opponents non starters.

Thus I don’t see the Pacers urgency to trade him. Regardless of chatter in league media if we can still utilize his strengths and minimize his defensive exposure to opponents starters it can benefit the team.

I hope he will buy in. I think he will be a pro and not cause problems. A lot will depend on how he plays and how our record goes in first part of the season whether circumstances will dictate a need to trade by deadline.

I Agree, Buddy's big value is high volume, very efficient shooting. Offensively there only a few teams that couldn't use him. Defensively, I was surprised last year. He isn't a + defender by any means, but I was surprised at how little of a defensive liability he actually was. They did scheme around him, but he held up well. Even getting a couple of perimeter blocks & stops (within the team defense, it must be said). He did say that his 'role' in Sac made it hard to play a well rounded game, & that he had a more complete game than his days in Sac showed. Last year, I thought, he proved that. Of course, that's not really saying a lot,. but it is saying something. =]

I get the impression that he wants to play starters minutes? He is a pro. Can't imagine that he would make trouble either. He's in the last year of a contract, and likely on the verge of potentially, his last real contract before becoming a 'veteran mentor'. So, I can understand. I have to believe, that starting or not starting, if he is playing full minutes, and putting up the numbers that would give him good leverage on his next contract (both stat wise and team wins), I don't think he would be bothered by playing this season out in Indy. But, if that happens, Indy is likely to lose him without getting anything in return.

If Indy isn't going to pay him probably significantly above the non-taxpayer Mid-level exception, then he can probably get just as much, a longer term, and a defined role signing with a contender (or wannabe contender) who needs the shooting. Based on the past couple of years,.. I believe the FO will work with him to help find a place that he is happy, that will provide an acceptable level of value to the Pacers. I will probably always be a buddy fan,... just cause of his time here. LOL =]

[Tom White]

The thought process of this team's leadership never fails to totally baffle me.

[basketballwacko2]

The thought process of this team's leadership never fails to totally baffle me.

Well this is what happens when you're not trying to win.

[boomershadow]

The thought process of this team's leadership never fails to totally baffle me.

A lot of the fanbase was ready to ship Buddy off for crumbs on day one to give Mathurin more playing time. The team didn't do that. He started here the whole year. He got a chance to show who he is outside of the Kings environment, which was pretty bad for most of his time there.

The thing that those fans knew then, and hasn't gone away, is Buddy's timeline and the teams might not mesh so well. We have young ayers that need development time. We also have a more balanced roster so that means less time at the 3 or 4 for shooting guards.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app

[Tom White]

A lot of the fanbase was ready to ship Buddy off for crumbs on day one to give Mathurin more playing time.

Most of the fanbase had no idea who he was/is.

He got a chance to show who he is outside of the Kings environment, which was pretty bad for most of his time there.

I would agree that their team was bad, but that wasn't all on his shoulders.

The thing that those fans knew then, and hasn't gone away, is Buddy's timeline and the teams might not mesh so well.

I've said this before, but here goes again.

This team has a timeline? What might that be? We're talking about a team that has regularly missed the playoffs for years now. And even during the last number of years when they did make the playoffs, it was as a one-and-done appearance, generally resulting in a sweep by the opponent. So, what kind of a timeline were they on for all those years?

So, I will ask it again. What the heck timeline are we talking about here? I'll answer that myself. The timeline is a figment of a fanbase's imagination. There is no timeline.

[Pacers Forever]

A lot of the fanbase was ready to ship Buddy off for crumbs on day one to give Mathurin more playing time.

Most of the fanbase had no idea who he was/is.

He got a chance to show who he is outside of the Kings environment, which was pretty bad for most of his time there.

I would agree that their team was bad, but that wasn't all on his shoulders.

The thing that those fans knew then, and hasn't gone away, is Buddy's timeline and the teams might not mesh so well.

I've said this before, but here goes again.

This team has a timeline? What might that be? We're talking about a team that has regularly missed the playoffs for years now. And even during the last number of years when they did make the playoffs, it was as a one-and-done appearance, generally resulting in a sweep by the opponent. So, what kind of a timeline were they on for all those years?

So, I will ask it again. What the heck timeline are we talking about here? I'll answer that myself. The timeline is a figment of a fanbase's imagination. There is no timeline.

If I’m translating Boomershadow’s post correctly they’re saying Buddy’s timeline (career) isn’t a true fit to mesh with the youth movement the Pacer’s front office has embarked on. I agree however he’s given us that veteran presence and strengthened the team. He’s played better here than in Sacramento due to our surrounding talent.

I felt Buddy was a great get in the Haliburton acquisition as a solid veteran and strengthened the depth of quality players here. I have and will continue to be a proponent of keeping Buddy until someone steps up to knock down 3’s consistently enough to make parting with Buddy not hurtful to our offense.

I don’t think they’re talking about a Pacer’s timeline. The Pacers don’t have a timeline. Of course the front office, coaches, and fans all want to win. However, this is a business and there’s no timeline to be successful as long as they produce a profit yearly then the front office is maintaining their jobs and the owner wins. Of course we’d like to think there’s an urgency to win a title, but we all know that (so far and maybe never) that small market teams struggle to build championships.

If the rumors are true that Tyrese can recruit major stars to join him and play here then that’s the best chance we will have to build a contender other than a wealthier owner purchasing the franchise and changing the status quo. We’ll see next season as we will have a lot of free agent turnover possibly and maybe Tyrese can persuade players to sign here.

Right now I feel like the front office has significantly improved the talent depth of the team. 14 players deep. Should be enough talent to make the playoffs.

Although we have a lot of up and coming young talent there’s no guarantee that they will mature into veteran stars. Hopefully the front office will be looking to sell high on our glut of talent that isn’t in their future plans to hopefully continue to improve the roster talent for seasons ahead. Draft has to be better next year.

[JMaster5K]

If I’m translating Boomershadow’s post correctly they’re saying Buddy’s timeline (career) isn’t a true fit to mesh with the youth movement the Pacer’s front office has embarked on. I agree however he’s given us that veteran presence and strengthened the team. He’s played better here than in Sacramento due to our surrounding talent.

I felt Buddy was a great get in the Haliburton acquisition as a solid veteran and strengthened the depth of quality players here. I have and will continue to be a proponent of keeping Buddy until someone steps up to knock down 3’s consistently enough to make parting with Buddy not hurtful to our offense.

I don’t think they’re talking about a Pacer’s timeline. The Pacers don’t have a timeline. Of course the front office, coaches, and fans all want to win. However, this is a business and there’s no timeline to be successful as long as they produce a profit yearly then the front office is maintaining their jobs and the owner wins. Of course we’d like to think there’s an urgency to win a title, but we all know that (so far and maybe never) that small market teams struggle to build championships.

If the rumors are true that Tyrese can recruit major stars to join him and play here then that’s the best chance we will have to build a contender other than a wealthier owner purchasing the franchise and changing the status quo. We’ll see next season as we will have a lot of free agent turnover possibly and maybe Tyrese can persuade players to sign here.

Right now I feel like the front office has significantly improved the talent depth of the team. 14 players deep. Should be enough talent to make the playoffs.

Although we have a lot of up and coming young talent there’s no guarantee that they will mature into veteran stars. Hopefully the front office will be looking to sell high on our glut of talent that isn’t in their future plans to hopefully continue to improve the roster talent for seasons ahead. Draft has to be better next year.

I have to agree,.. I don't want to see Buddy go. He is one of those shooters that defenses have to account for. That give us spacing & opens up the floor for Hali, and Math, and Toppin. The Star has printed too many articles over the last year where Buddy has been mentoring the younger players & playing the vet for the team.

Wasn't it a Hali interview,.. where he said before a game that the locker room was 'tight' and just didn't feel right, everyone was a bit tense. Then Buddy cracked a joke, started some laughing & talking,... by the time they went on the floor the team was right where it should have been? I'd like to see somebody like Sheppard prove they are the 'next' Buddy (but with better defense). But I would still want that person to be Buddy's understudy for at least a full year.

Maybe I just like the way this roster fits together for this year? idk,.. but I do like the current chemistry, and skills landscape for this team. Buddy is a significant part of that.

[JMaster5K]

Indystar Article this morning that talks about the Buddy Heild talks.

https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2023/09/26/pacers-buddy-hield-contract-talks-are-at-a-halt-trade-not-imminent/70853105007/

[jarryd3107]

Hield for Finney-Smith + filler

BKN lose one of their 17 6’8” players in exchange for outside help and Indy get the quintessential Carlisle forward. DFS also has a great contract for a team like Indy.

Hield would fit so well with Bridges and Johnson.

[granger05]

Indystar Article this morning that talks about the Buddy Heild talks.

https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2023/09/26/pacers-buddy-hield-contract-talks-are-at-a-halt-trade-not-imminent/70853105007/

That Indystar article seems to confirm some speculation that his role is more of an issue than his salary, but perhaps they're linked and he wants to maintain a large role somewhere to keep his FA value up. Has there been any reporting on what we did or could offer? I recall there were a number of articles about the Myles Turner renegotiate and extend option last year. The Myles stuff was mentioned early, but it seemed like the team wanted to maintain that flexibility as long as possible and finally did the deal closer to the trade deadline (like a week before). I assume the same would happen with Buddy and maybe he and his agent are concerned that if he's in a reduced role during the season then that final contract number come deadline time isn't in line with what they expect.

I really liked the Myles deal where we got him his money but now have a vet on a reasonable deal for a couple years. I'd probably be similarly happy with a Hield renegotiate and extend. Given that the Pacers have that option and the deadline for extensions is AFTER the trade deadline each year, I don't see why they'd trade Hield away without getting something interesting.

[Tom White]

I really liked the Myles deal where we got him his money but now have a vet on a reasonable deal for a couple years.

As I remember the deal for Turner also helped the team get to the league's minimum team salary. So, it was money they were going to have to spend regardless, thus the frontloading part of the deal. It was not just a "kindness of their heart" deal with him.

[granger05]

I really liked the Myles deal where we got him his money but now have a vet on a reasonable deal for a couple years.

As I remember the deal for Turner also helped the team get to the league's minimum team salary. So, it was money they were going to have to spend regardless, thus the frontloading part of the deal. It was not just a "kindness of their heart" deal with him.

I'm not sure about the salary floor, but the bump in his pay that year is also what got him to accept the lower pay in future years. I didn't think of it as a donation.

[Scoot McGroot]

Indystar Article this morning that talks about the Buddy Heild talks.

https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2023/09/26/pacers-buddy-hield-contract-talks-are-at-a-halt-trade-not-imminent/70853105007/

That Indystar article seems to confirm some speculation that his role is more of an issue than his salary, but perhaps they're linked and he wants to maintain a large role somewhere to keep his FA value up. Has there been any reporting on what we did or could offer? I recall there were a number of articles about the Myles Turner renegotiate and extend option last year. The Myles stuff was mentioned early, but it seemed like the team wanted to maintain that flexibility as long as possible and finally did the deal closer to the trade deadline (like a week before). I assume the same would happen with Buddy and maybe he and his agent are concerned that if he's in a reduced role during the season then that final contract number come deadline time isn't in line with what they expect.

I really liked the Myles deal where we got him his money but now have a vet on a reasonable deal for a couple years. I'd probably be similarly happy with a Hield renegotiate and extend. Given that the Pacers have that option and the deadline for extensions is AFTER the trade deadline each year, I don't see why they'd trade Hield away without getting something interesting.

Pacers offer that Hield reportedly considered “insulting” was 3 more years (4 total counting this season) and $57m of new money.

[Scoot McGroot]

Important to keep in mind that last year, salary matching was different, so saving that cap space to the deadline before giving Myles the R&E gave Indy additional flexibility in salary matching. However, this year, Indy has roughly $7m in cap space, and new cba rules would provide $7.5m in salary matching in trade, so using that cap space now provides functionally no hindrance on any other possible trades, like last year would’ve. Remember, you can’t use the $7m in cap space AND $7.5m in salary matching in the same trade. One or the other.