The battle for backup center

[Wizop]

isn't Stix every bit as big as Bam who is an excellent 5?

[Scoot McGroot]

However, I can't get the summer league play outta my mind where Neemas Queta blocked his shot 4x in a row, right at the front of the rim. Queta is long, but still, I-Jax didn't have the springs from a standing start to get over him in the paint. On the move, given even 1 step, I-Jax can probably get over almost anyone, but he couldn't do it, no-step on the blocks which would really limit his potential as a 5, which seems to be where the Pacers believe he fits best.

To be fair, that’s also specifically Queta’s calling card as his attempt to make the league. He’s a terrific rim defender that lacks most other aspects to his game.

[Scoot McGroot]

isn't Stix every bit as big as Bam who is an excellent 5?

He’s nowhere near the strength, flexibility, or athleticism of Bam.

[Wizop]

isn't Stix every bit as big as Bam who is an excellent 5?

He’s nowhere near the strength, flexibility, or athleticism of Bam.

He's stronger than last year, but I'm just saying he's not too short to play center. Absolutely Bam is much better.

[JMaster5K]

isn't Stix every bit as big as Bam who is an excellent 5?

Stix is longer than Bam,... Bam was 9'0" standing reach,. as a 19 year old, at the combine. Again, Bam has grown, but his SR is probably now around the same number Stix measured at his combine. The difference is Bam's strength & explosiveness.

Bam weighed in at 245, as a 19 year old,. with like 9% body fat,.. was a 33" no step vertical, and a 38.5 vertical. Six didn't do the athletic testing, Stix weighed in at 225. His vertical numbers aren't bad, but they aren't as good as Bam's. Would guess Stix is around a 36-ish vertical, and probably 30-31" no step.

The biggest difference though is Bam's quick, explosive power in his verticality. He gets up, with no step almost like a Parrish, or Russell,.. like he on a pogo stick,.. fast, first and second jumps. Stix is longer, but he (at least up until now) hasn't had the strength to hold his spot on the blocks, nor the fast vertical to play the same style as Bam. It's the quickness and timing that let Bam get to the ball on rebounds the way he does with Miami. Having said that, there is nothing that would stop Stix from playing the same style as Myles (his most common comp coming out of Maryland), IF,. he could hold position & set screens with the same strength available to Myles.

[JMaster5K]

However, I can't get the summer league play outta my mind where Neemas Queta blocked his shot 4x in a row, right at the front of the rim. Queta is long, but still, I-Jax didn't have the springs from a standing start to get over him in the paint. On the move, given even 1 step, I-Jax can probably get over almost anyone, but he couldn't do it, no-step on the blocks which would really limit his potential as a 5, which seems to be where the Pacers believe he fits best.

To be fair, that’s also specifically Queta’s calling card as his attempt to make the league. He’s a terrific rim defender that lacks most other aspects to his game.

Yeah,. your point is well taken,.. Queta isn't fast, nor explosively vertical, but he is truly top 1% long,. and knows how to be in the right place to protect the rim. He can make minor, small area adjustments with stutter steps (kinda like Eaton), that keep him in a play. But, I still couldn't believe I-Jax just shooting essentially 2 foot turn arounds right into Queta's vertical hands, no jump hook, no backboard, no 'over the top' finesse or strength. The good part,. I-Jax got double digit rebounds that game, cause 4 of them came on the same action. =]

[JMaster5K]

isn't Stix every bit as big as Bam who is an excellent 5?

He’s nowhere near the strength, flexibility, or athleticism of Bam.

He's stronger than last year, but I'm just saying he's not too short to play center. Absolutely Bam is much better.

Stix isn't too short to play center. He was long enough when he was drafted. (if you go by the combine measurements of people who play the 5 in the league and stick for more than a rookie contract. The sorta minimum 'average' standing reach you look for in true 5's is like 9'1.5".)

His issues have always been strength, flexibility, & physicality,. particularly in his lower body, holding position, setting screens, etc. Stix is actually a very good rim defender from the 5, just hasn't had that much of an opportunity at the NBA level playing behind Ayton & Myles. His second jump is faster than Myles which is why he can generate better rebounding numbers and has better help-side block potential. (Why many thought he could play the 4 in the NBA.)

Stix averaged 2.4 BPG at Maryland playing mostly 5 (2.7 per 36 minutes). Maryland played a double post on offense, and a drop on defense, with Stix as the low man. So, he was listed as a PF, but in reality played more like a traditional 4/5, or a modern 5. Maryland also had a number of heavier, stronger players that played as the 'block' post in the offense, allowing Stix to play more of a mid-post. He didn't have to really establish position offensively, weighing around 215 with 240 pounders also on the team. So, his skill mix is also a bit different.

If Stix is stronger & heavier this year,.. he still may not be, may never be strong & physical enough to be an NBA starter?.. that's for him to prove. However, he could now be strong enough and heavy enough to play the same game as Myles,.. (if his shooting has recovered from last year) the same way as Myles. Could be the same pick & Roll, pick & pop threat while Myles is out of the game and on the 2nd unit. I hope this is true. If it is, then he probably has, as was alluded in the East/Cooper piece, actually passed both I-Jax and Theis for the backup roll?

It would be really nice for the Pacers to 'have their cake & eat it too' for once. Have their clear, back up 5 be both the best player to help them win this year, and be a longer term solution at the position. (yeah,. I am dreaming),.. but that would also free up Theis to move to a contender, and allow the Pacers to generate some value. They could continue to develop I-Jax.

It's still the off-season, for another few days,.. I can keep my summer dreams for a little while longer,... =]

[Solid]

As the other youngsters grow Jax stands out more and more looking lost. Still so young though. If he can be kept dirt cheap, then why not. But he but looks like 2 more years in the G-League than any kind of real contributor. I'd not push to lose him but I would package him in any useful trade.

[Wizop]

As the other youngsters grow Jax stands out more and more looking lost. Still so young though. If he can be kept dirt cheap, then why not. But he but looks like 2 more years in the G-League than any kind of real contributor. I'd not push to lose him but I would package him in any useful trade.

Two more years?? Has he ever spent significant time in the G league?

[JMaster5K]

As the other youngsters grow Jax stands out more and more looking lost. Still so young though. If he can be kept dirt cheap, then why not. But he but looks like 2 more years in the G-League than any kind of real contributor. I'd not push to lose him but I would package him in any useful trade.

Yeah. I'm intrigued by if his game will change with Toppin around? For me, I-Jax game has some similarities to Toppin's game, at least athletically, comfort at certain positions on the floor, etc. Toppin seems much more confident in his game. Toppin's recognition skills and decision making seem faster than I-Jax. But, could having Toppin, and playing against him in practice, bring out some of those qualities in I-Jax? idk?

[Solid]

Dude just looks stoned to me. He needs to play if he's ever going to improve, and the G-League is the only place he won't hurt us.
Sitting on the bench just doesn't seem to be cutting it. A deer in the headlights with very poor reaction time, and still can't keep himself from hopping like a bunny at fakes. Again, he'd be on my available list.

[Wizop]

Again, he'd be on my available list.

Jax could be filler in a Hield trade. I'm hearing there isn't much of a market for Theis.

[JMaster5K]

As the other youngsters grow Jax stands out more and more looking lost. Still so young though. If he can be kept dirt cheap, then why not. But he but looks like 2 more years in the G-League than any kind of real contributor. I'd not push to lose him but I would package him in any useful trade.

Two more years?? Has he ever spent significant time in the G league?

Maybe he should? I think you're right. He hasn't spent much time in the G-league,,. according to Basketball-reference, a total of 4 games, 67 minutes played.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/j/jacksis02d.html

Do you think the Pacers taking a small step back with I-Jax and getting him more G-league time would help?

[pacers33granger]

Iirc Jackson, much like Goga, was simply too good for G League. Which is good but means he's in that in between of being too good there and not good enough to earn NBA minutes.

Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

[JMaster5K]

Iirc Jackson, much like Goga, was simply too good for G League. Which is good but means he's in that in between of being too good there and not good enough to earn NBA minutes.

Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah,. I hear ya. He's not going to really improve in the G-league,. and yet not going to earn any minutes or real development in the big league. I could see him earning minutes with other teams, and maybe growing into a rotation player. Any thoughts?

Could see him in Miami, backing up Bam? Maybe with the Spurs? Golden State?....

[JMaster5K]

Sorry double post - IT issues,... 8{

[Pacers Forever]

In summary I agree that I-Jax hasn’t improved like I envisioned based on his first season and draft moves we made to snag him.

I hope his career doesn’t become a Goga type project, but he has to morph and develop his game into a more useful player soon. I don’t think he’s a long term Pacer even though I like his fun lob game.

I’m not sure Theis or Stix are our long term answers at backup 5. However for this season those 2 will suffice.

I think Tshiebwe is our next long term 5 development project who if he matures greatly in the G league this year could make them forget 2 of the 3 current backup candidates.

I also don’t believe next year’s backup 5 is currently here unless Jalen Smith develops hugely this season winning the spot for the future.

[JMaster5K]

In summary I agree that I-Jax hasn’t improved like I envisioned based on his first season and draft moves we made to snag him.

I hope his career doesn’t become a Goga type project, but he has to morph and develop his game into a more useful player soon. I don’t think he’s a long term Pacer even though I like his fun lob game.

I’m not sure Theis or Stix are our long term answers at backup 5. However for this season those 2 will suffice.

I think Tshiebwe is our next long term 5 development project who if he matures greatly in the G league this year could make them forget 2 of the 3 current backup candidates.

I also don’t believe next year’s backup 5 is currently here unless Jalen Smith develops hugely this season winning the spot for the future.

I think you are probably right. This is a 'prove it' year for our backup 5's. For the first time in a few years, there are a number of modern, NBA 5's rated in the first round of the '24 draft. It's not an overly strong draft. None of the 5's are being hyped as an immediate all star's. However, there are several that are being touted as better than solid, maybe near all-star, starting caliber 5's with the skills to play the modern passing game. If none of our 5's prove they are the immediate back-up, future heir to Myles in the post, then I think the Pacers will probably move on, and use one of our 2 first rounders next your on a 5 (or 4/5), and start developing Myles eventual heir, while Myles is here to help accelerate that development.

Yeah,. the draft is a bit of a crap shoot, but taking a shot on developing a player is probably better than hanging on to a couple of players that haven't shown the development to grow into the role you need. Having said that, our backups this year are young. They still have loads of potential and room to grow. But all of them have been around long enough that we should be seeing some improvement, some development in their game. As I said, I think this year is the year you show it, because the team is going to move forward from here.

[8305]

I like Zack Eddy better than any of our current backup 5’s. Love to have a guy no one pushes around.