The battle for backup center

[Topofthekey]

I think Pacers should focus on shipping Theis to a contender who needs him. Get a 3rd team who has cap space to facilitate so that Pacers don't have to take back any salary

That should give Pacers some cap space which should allow Pacers to offer Buddy a bigger raise in a renegotiate and extend?

Theis is wasted as a 3rd centre anyway, so unless Pacers plan to promote him to the primary backup role, he's probably happier playing for a contender

[Wizop]

Theis is wasted as a 3rd centre anyway, so unless Pacers plan to promote him to the primary backup role, he's probably happier playing for a contender

they did start him in last night's exhibition game, but they are trying out all of the combinations. I think if we're seriously in contention for a spot above the play-in, he will get plenty of minutes here.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think Pacers should focus on shipping Theis to a contender who needs him. Get a 3rd team who has cap space to facilitate so that Pacers don't have to take back any salary

Indy and San Antonio are the only teams with meaningful cap space right now, and SA is already overloaded on guaranteed contracts.

That should give Pacers some cap space which should allow Pacers to offer Buddy a bigger raise in a renegotiate and extend?

Maybe, but Indy already has $7.5m-ish in cap space for a potential R&E that they have offered. I don’t think that number is a major issue in negotiations as much as role and minutes.

Theis is wasted as a 3rd centre anyway, so unless Pacers plan to promote him to the primary backup role, he's probably happier playing for a contender

I think Theis is going to end up being the primary backup at the 5 and Jalen/Jackson will fall back to 3rd/center and 5th big man type range. Just a hunch, though.

[Wizop]

I think Theis is going to end up being the primary backup at the 5 and Jalen/Jackson will fall back to 3rd/center and 5th big man type range. Just a hunch, though.

I think so too at least as long as we have playoff aspirations. if as the deadline approaches we find ourselves falling short, we can change course.

[boomershadow]

I'm hoping Jalen Smith gets the spot eventually. I heard he looked better the second preseason game. Im hoping he can still develop into a solid player. There have been flashes of it. Giving Jackson is young so another year of development and growth and sporadic playing time might be what he needs.

Theis is a good player, but as has been said he might fit better on a contender. Boston is a little thin in the front court now they traded Timelord. Maybe a reunion there would make sense.

I thought this deserved its own thread.

[Tom White]

I thought this deserved its own thread.

Then you should make one.

[pacers33granger]

As of now it should be Smith. Jackson still has some interesting tools but seemingly cannot get over fouling and going for blocks all the time. He's also disappointed in the lack of offensive development to date.

I get the concept of Theis getting the nod, but don't see him as much better than the current iteration of Smith. He has a better sense of where to be but is putrid on offense, tends to get called for moving screens, and is just ok on defense. He's far better as a 3rd big if there's injuries, foul trouble, or Smith isn't cutting it as he's capable of doing ok without consistent minutes.

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[Scoot McGroot]

As of now it should be Smith. Jackson still has some interesting tools but seemingly cannot get over fouling and going for blocks all the time. He's also disappointed in the lack of offensive development to date.

I get the concept of Theis getting the nod, but don't see him as much better than the current iteration of Smith. He has a better sense of where to be but is putrid on offense, tends to get called for moving screens, and is just ok on defense. He's far better as a 3rd big if there's injuries, foul trouble, or Smith isn't cutting it as he's capable of doing ok without consistent minutes.

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3rd Big? Or 3rd center? I assume you mean 3rd center. I would imagine the backup of Obi/Walker will be the 3rd big?

[pacers33granger]

As of now it should be Smith. Jackson still has some interesting tools but seemingly cannot get over fouling and going for blocks all the time. He's also disappointed in the lack of offensive development to date.

I get the concept of Theis getting the nod, but don't see him as much better than the current iteration of Smith. He has a better sense of where to be but is putrid on offense, tends to get called for moving screens, and is just ok on defense. He's far better as a 3rd big if there's injuries, foul trouble, or Smith isn't cutting it as he's capable of doing ok without consistent minutes.

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3rd Big? Or 3rd center? I assume you mean 3rd center. I would imagine the backup of Obi/Walker will be the 3rd big?

Yes 3rd center.

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[Wizop]

Is the time to extend Jax ending soon?

[Scoot McGroot]

Is the time to extend Jax ending soon?

He’s a year away from possibly extending. The deadline to exercise his 4th year option is 10/31.

I personally they should still exercise it and keep him for his 4th year. Here’s plenty of cap space, no tax concerns, and big guys, specially super young ones like IJax, usually take longer to develop.

[Wizop]

Is the time to extend Jax ending soon?

He’s a year away from possibly extending. The deadline to exercise his 4th year option is 10/31.

I personally they should still exercise it and keep him for his 4th year. Here’s plenty of cap space, no tax concerns, and big guys, specially super young ones like IJax, usually take longer to develop.

I said extension but I was thinking option. Thought it was coming up. Wouldn't think they'd create a Smith situation but it could happen.

[Scoot McGroot]

Is the time to extend Jax ending soon?

He’s a year away from possibly extending. The deadline to exercise his 4th year option is 10/31.

I personally they should still exercise it and keep him for his 4th year. Here’s plenty of cap space, no tax concerns, and big guys, specially super young ones like IJax, usually take longer to develop.

I said extension but I was thinking option. Thought it was coming up. Wouldn't think they'd create a Smith situation but it could happen.

You have impeccable timing, as always, Wizop!

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[Wizop]

You have impeccable timing, as always, Wizop!

I had read somewhere that another team had to pick up a rookie option on one of their players soon, and I figured our deadline couldn't be much different.

[xBulletproof]

I think it's between Theis and Smith. Smith looks like he bulked up to accept the C role, not PF. Where his shooting will be a bit less of an issue. Extra bonus if he gets his shot back. Theis just knows how to play though.

Jackson has always struck me as a C skillset, in an ideal SF body. Which is always a mess to figure out how to make that work, I've never had much hope there. He keeps saying what he needs to fix, but I have yet to see any tangible difference in game.

[8305]

I think Theis in the backup role gives Pacers best chance of winning. Best case scenario for either Smith or Jackson is being a capable backup 5. Both have a ways to go before either belongs in a competitive rotation. Given the devaluation of the center position, i’m not that excited about the development of either of the young centers.

[Wizop]

Smith had a quality summer

[8305]

Smith had a quality summer

Maybe he can be a competent backup. On his best day he is still undersized for the position and I’ll be surprised if that small 2nd that Rick rolled out last night works.
Pg TJ Mac, small for the position
Sg. Nembhard, nice sized pg but small as wings go
Sf, Hield, once again a small wing
Pf, Neismith, decent sized for a wing but as we saw last year too small to be effective in this roll
C, Smith small for the position.
You might survive if you can count on this to out score opponents but, the only legit scorer is Hield. Is that enough?

Shouldn’t we be seeing something from IJax by now? Anyone else seeing any sign of improvement?

[JMaster5K]

Smith had a quality summer

Maybe he can be a competent backup. On his best day he is still undersized for the position and I’ll be surprised if that small 2nd that Rick rolled out last night works.
Pg TJ Mac, small for the position
Sg. Nembhard, nice sized pg but small as wings go
Sf, Hield, once again a small wing
Pf, Neismith, decent sized for a wing but as we saw last year too small to be effective in this roll
C, Smith small for the position.
You might survive if you can count on this to out score opponents but, the only legit scorer is Hield. Is that enough?

Shouldn’t we be seeing something from IJax by now? Anyone else seeing any sign of improvement?

I have to believe the backup 5 will be Stix. (CC has been saying as much in her guest podcasts as well.) He has had a good summer. He is bigger & longer than I-Jax. His standing reach at the combine 9'2", which puts him around average for a 5. That was as a 20 year old who was 6'9" barefoot. If you believe his interviews over this summer, he's now 6'10" and enough to round up to 6'11" barefoot. That should put his standing reach up around 9'3"+ . For comparison, Myles standing reach was 9'4" at his combine. Myles was also in like the top 3% for standing reach all time, at the time. I-Jax standing reach at KY the Oct. before he was drafted was 9'0.5", at 19 years old, which would make him long for a 4, but short for a 5, even if he's added an inch since then.

(as a brief aside, the Pacers tend to list players by the height/weight from the combine or rookie year & don't really update it. it changes a little,... but?? For comparison, in his interview after returning from his injury this year & playing himself back in shape, Myles (when asked) said he actually now measure 7'1 in shoes, and was back to his target weight of 258...) =}

I believe you are right,. when he came into the league, Stix wasn't really big enough to be a full time 5, and didn't really move well enough to be a full time 4. If, again, his interviews this summer are accurate, he's now comfortably, with no additional body fat, weighing in over 245 instead of 225,.. with the Pacers trainers putting an emphasis on his lower body strength. He still isn't huge, but he isn't getting pushed around like he did last year. So far, what I've seen supports that. The season will prove whether this was all summer talk, or the real thing.

If it's real, he has probably grown into being a full time 5, much like Myles did over the first 3-4 years of his career, and is likely the presumptive backup for Myles?

(when ask, on I think it was one of her 23-24 season reviews with Tony East? CC suggested that Stix seemed to have already outplayed even Theis in practice, which I hope is completely true. It would settle a few things.)

I have to believe (unfortunately) that I-Jax may be the odd man out. He also has gotten bigger, but he is now more 4 sized than 3 sized. However, I can't get the summer league play outta my mind where Neemas Queta blocked his shot 4x in a row, right at the front of the rim. Queta is long, but still, I-Jax didn't have the springs from a standing start to get over him in the paint. On the move, given even 1 step, I-Jax can probably get over almost anyone, but he couldn't do it, no-step on the blocks which would really limit his potential as a 5, which seems to be where the Pacers believe he fits best.

I tend to agree with the rest of your post, our team is still small. It lacks real length at the 4, and in some matchups the 3. That alone will probably have an impact on our teams ceiling defensively, particularly as games become more physical, later in the season.

[JMaster5K]

Having said all that (sorry),... to put it in context, I'm also a person that thought I-Jax was the future at the 4. <------- doesn't always hit an open barn door.