Buddy Hield trade starting to look like a blunder!

[basketballwacko2]

With the injury to Benn Mathurin the trade deadline deal to ship Buddy to the Sixers for 3 2nds and 2 junk contracts looks like a mistake. It seems that taking Hield's shooting out of the Pacers lineup has hurt Tyrese Haliburton who just doesn't look like the same player we saw earlier this year.

Without Buddy in the line up teams don't have to worry about those long bombs and have been cracking down on Haliburton. His assists are down and his own shooting percentage has dropped along with his scoring. Then you take Mathurin out of the mix and the Pacers have struggled.

At 39-31 and playing GSW tonight sitting 1/2 game ahead of Miami in the East will the Pacers be able to hold on to 6th place and avoid a play in game or will they fall back to 7th or 8th?

[basketballwacko2]

This reminds me of the trade a few years ago when the team sent Danny Granger to Philly for Evan Turner and LaVoy Allen. It looked good at the moment but it seemed to mess up the team's chemistry.

[Pacers Forever]

With the injury to Benn Mathurin the trade deadline deal to ship Buddy to the Sixers for 3 2nds and 2 junk contracts looks like a mistake. It seems that taking Hield's shooting out of the Pacers lineup has hurt Tyrese Haliburton who just doesn't look like the same player we saw earlier this year.

Without Buddy in the line up teams don't have to worry about those long bombs and have been cracking down on Haliburton. His assists are down and his own shooting percentage has dropped along with his scoring. Then you take Mathurin out of the mix and the Pacers have struggled.

At 39-31 and playing GSW tonight sitting 1/2 game ahead of Miami in the East will the Pacers be able to hold on to 6th place and avoid a play in game or will they fall back to 7th or 8th?

No doubt it messed the offense chemistry up and they’re still trying to establish a new offense around Siakam.

I recall the Pacers front office saying that trading Buddy would hurt the team for the rest of this season. I think they knew with or without him they were still too far away from being the contenders they envision.

I got the feeling that they wanted to move him to make him happy, and to set up the roster for upcoming seasons. I have to guess trading Buddy helped the future salary cap not having to overpay a player who they didn’t think was worth what he was asking and giving more clarity to their future path.

[Wizop]

Would losing him in the off season for nothing have been worse? I don't see us going deep in the playoffs with or without Buddy.

[basketballwacko2]

With the injury to Benn Mathurin the trade deadline deal to ship Buddy to the Sixers for 3 2nds and 2 junk contracts looks like a mistake. It seems that taking Hield's shooting out of the Pacers lineup has hurt Tyrese Haliburton who just doesn't look like the same player we saw earlier this year.

Without Buddy in the line up teams don't have to worry about those long bombs and have been cracking down on Haliburton. His assists are down and his own shooting percentage has dropped along with his scoring. Then you take Mathurin out of the mix and the Pacers have struggled.

At 39-31 and playing GSW tonight sitting 1/2 game ahead of Miami in the East will the Pacers be able to hold on to 6th place and avoid a play in game or will they fall back to 7th or 8th?

No doubt it messed the offense chemistry up and they’re still trying to establish a new offense around Siakam.

I recall the Pacers front office saying that trading Buddy would hurt the team for the rest of this season. I think they knew with or without him they were still too far away from being the contenders they envision.

I got the feeling that they wanted to move him to make him happy, and to set up the roster for upcoming seasons. I have to guess trading Buddy helped the future salary cap not having to overpay a player who they didn’t think was worth what he was asking and giving more clarity to their future path.

I thought and still think that they could have started him the rest of the season and brought Benn off the bench. Now Sheppard is getting a chance to show he's a player, but the issue now is depth. With Benn Mathurin out for the season, Buddy would be the starting SG without a doubt. They still could have let Buddy leave after the season.

I'm still not sure what the 3 2nds were that were acquired in the trade to philly. Right now it looks like the Pacers have 51, 52 and 53 in the 2nd round. It's unlikely they'll get anyone of significance with them. They should try to combine them and move up to get Zach Edey who I think will be available in the 40-45 range.

[basketballwacko2]

Would losing him in the off season for nothing have been worse? I don't see us going deep in the playoffs with or without Buddy.

Maybe not worse but the #1 is going to Toronto so who cares clearly they are not beating Boston in the East.

[Wizop]

I'm still not sure what the 3 2nds were that were acquired in the trade to philly. Right now it looks like the Pacers have 51, 52 and 53 in the 2nd round. It's unlikely they'll get anyone of significance with them. They should try to combine them and move up to get Zach Edey who I think will be available in the 40-45 range.

I don't know what's right but tankathon shows 36, 52, and 53.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

[JMaster5K]

I'm still not sure what the 3 2nds were that were acquired in the trade to philly. Right now it looks like the Pacers have 51, 52 and 53 in the 2nd round. It's unlikely they'll get anyone of significance with them. They should try to combine them and move up to get Zach Edey who I think will be available in the 40-45 range.

I don't know what's right but tankathon shows 36, 52, and 53.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

Tankathon is right,... the language from RealGM:

"Least favorable of IND, CLE and UTH if IND conveys 1st round pick to TOR in 2024" = Cle

"More favorable of (i) TOR and (ii) more favorable of (a) IND and (b) less favorable of CLE and UTH then other to LAC" = Tor

"Less favorable of CHI and NOP" = NOP

Not sure why, but Tankathon did show us as still having the 47 pick (ours to LAC), and not the Raps 36, up until maybe 2 weeks ago?....

[JMaster5K]

I'm still not sure what the 3 2nds were that were acquired in the trade to philly. Right now it looks like the Pacers have 51, 52 and 53 in the 2nd round. It's unlikely they'll get anyone of significance with them. They should try to combine them and move up to get Zach Edey who I think will be available in the 40-45 range.

I don't know what's right but tankathon shows 36, 52, and 53.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

BMV Sports said -

"Indiana received the best second round pick between Toronto and three other teams in 2024, and 2029 second-round picks via LA Clippers and Portland Trail Blazers"

I think,.. we since dealt the LAC pick in 2029? RealGM is showing us with:

"More favorable of IND and WAS then other to NYK (via IND); POR (via PHL)"

With the more favorable of IND & WAS coming from the Coulibaly trade for Walker.

[basketballwacko2]

I'm still not sure what the 3 2nds were that were acquired in the trade to philly. Right now it looks like the Pacers have 51, 52 and 53 in the 2nd round. It's unlikely they'll get anyone of significance with them. They should try to combine them and move up to get Zach Edey who I think will be available in the 40-45 range.

I don't know what's right but tankathon shows 36, 52, and 53.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

The one that is currently 36 was a Toronto pick, that's what I thought they got but I can't verify that from what the Pacers draft picks page shows here on realGM.

Can you make sense of this soup?

2024 - Least favorable of IND, CLE and UTH if IND conveys 1st round pick to TOR in 2024 [may be conveyed to GOS; see below], or to TOR if IND does not convey 1st round pick to TOR in 2024 (via TOR to MEM to LAC; via UTH swap for CLE; via CLE to IND to MIL to MEM to LAC to PHL to IND); More favorable of (i) TOR and (ii) more favorable of (a) IND and (b) less favorable of CLE and UTH then other to LAC (via CLE to IND to MIL to MEM to LAC to PHL to IND; via UTH swap for CLE; via TOR to MEM to LAC); Less favorable of CHI and NOP [may be conveyed to GOS; see below] (via CHI to NOP to IND); MIL [may be conveyed to GOS; see below]; Least / less favorable of (i) least favorable of IND, CLE and UTH if (i) conveyable [as set forth above], (ii) less favorable of CHI and NOP and (iii) MIL to GOS

[8305]

Losing Mathurin obviously not ideal but, not something that one could have predicted. Hield was evolving to being the team’s 5th wing, behind Nembhard, Mathurin, Nesmith and Shephard. In a contract year Hield’s desire for a trade was understandable. Factoring all that I still have no problem with the trade. In two years we expect to be contending. More guys will be getting paid and we won’t have the luxury of more quality players than can fit into game minutes. Draft assets will mean more. I don’t see Hield being a playoff difference maker.

[Pacers Forever]

I am ok with the trading of Hield and wish they could have received better value. However moving Hield speeded up the future build and opened up playing time for Mathurin, Sheppard, Toppin, and Walker. It also gives them some roster cap flexibility, a few combinable second round picks that they can use in trade or the draft, and more for us to guess about.

[JMaster5K]

I am ok with the trading of Hield and wish they could have received better value. However moving Hield speeded up the future build and opened up playing time for Mathurin, Sheppard, Toppin, and Walker. It also gives them some roster cap flexibility, a few combinable second round picks that they can use in trade or the draft, and more for us to guess about.

in an interview, after playing in Philly, Buddy said he was happy, that he wanted to play & that wasn't going to happen moving forward with the Pacers, but that the Pacers had done right by him. So?.....

=}

[basketballwacko2]

Losing Mathurin obviously not ideal but, not something that one could have predicted. Hield was evolving to being the team’s 5th wing, behind Nembhard, Mathurin, Nesmith and Shephard. In a contract year Hield’s desire for a trade was understandable. Factoring all that I still have no problem with the trade. In two years we expect to be contending. More guys will be getting paid and we won’t have the luxury of more quality players than can fit into game minutes. Draft assets will mean more. I don’t see Hield being a playoff difference maker.

It's obvious that without Buddy teams are able to defend Tyrese better than they were so it's clear loosing his shooting then losing Mathurin to makes it a problem. If you want to throw away the season and say well were not gonna go to the finals any how that's one thing. But I'd like to see them win now since they traded off 3 #1 picks for Pascal.

[basketballwacko2]

I am ok with the trading of Hield and wish they could have received better value. However moving Hield speeded up the future build and opened up playing time for Mathurin, Sheppard, Toppin, and Walker. It also gives them some roster cap flexibility, a few combinable second round picks that they can use in trade or the draft, and more for us to guess about.

in an interview, after playing in Philly, Buddy said he was happy, that he wanted to play & that wasn't going to happen moving forward with the Pacers, but that the Pacers had done right by him. So?.....

=}

If the 2nd they got for him is the Tononto 2nd that looks like #36 right now they might get something out of that but who knows. Buddy would be starting right now if he was still here. Like I said in other posts not having that cocked and ready gun at the 3 point line has allowed teams to defend Haliburton more effectively. Buddy wanted to start so that he could have the best chance at a better contract than the extension we offered. But now in Philly he's not starting.

[8305]

Losing Mathurin obviously not ideal but, not something that one could have predicted. Hield was evolving to being the team’s 5th wing, behind Nembhard, Mathurin, Nesmith and Shephard. In a contract year Hield’s desire for a trade was understandable. Factoring all that I still have no problem with the trade. In two years we expect to be contending. More guys will be getting paid and we won’t have the luxury of more quality players than can fit into game minutes. Draft assets will mean more. I don’t see Hield being a playoff difference maker.

It's obvious that without Buddy teams are able to defend Tyrese better than they were so it's clear loosing his shooting then losing Mathurin to makes it a problem. If you want to throw away the season and say well were not gonna go to the finals any how that's one thing. But I'd like to see them win now since they traded off 3 #1 picks for Pascal.

I’m not convinced Buddy has that much impact on Tyrese. He had been coming off the bench since December. That wouldn’t have changed even after losing Benn. More of his minutes were coming with TJ and that would still be the case.

[JMaster5K]

Losing Mathurin obviously not ideal but, not something that one could have predicted. Hield was evolving to being the team’s 5th wing, behind Nembhard, Mathurin, Nesmith and Shephard. In a contract year Hield’s desire for a trade was understandable. Factoring all that I still have no problem with the trade. In two years we expect to be contending. More guys will be getting paid and we won’t have the luxury of more quality players than can fit into game minutes. Draft assets will mean more. I don’t see Hield being a playoff difference maker.

It's obvious that without Buddy teams are able to defend Tyrese better than they were so it's clear loosing his shooting then losing Mathurin to makes it a problem. If you want to throw away the season and say well were not gonna go to the finals any how that's one thing. But I'd like to see them win now since they traded off 3 #1 picks for Pascal.

I’m not convinced Buddy has that much impact on Tyrese. He had been coming off the bench since December. That wouldn’t have changed even after losing Benn. More of his minutes were coming with TJ and that would still be the case.

Gotta agree. Shep is starting to show out. After he has a full summer camp & off season with the team, gotta believe it was likely that he could/would move ahead of Buddy due to age, defense, ball handling. He still needs to be a better movement shooter, but that's why he needs an offseason. Nesmith was called 'the best shooter in the draft' in 2020. He has largely earned his time on defense, but he also is a + level shooter. Also needs to work on movement, but that is common with shooters coming into the league.

With Nembhard (who already replaced buddy due to defense & ball handling), McDermott, Toppin, Smith, Turner,.. not even to mention how well Walker has been shooting, all showing more consistent positive value from 3 and more complete skill sets, I just can't imagine that Buddy would be a starter moving forward,... and I think it's very likely that his take was correct. He wasn't going to see as much time, & would likely have a diminished role with the Pacers moving forward.

That's not to say I don't like Buddy as a player, or respect how much more he showed with the Pacers. It is to say, that for the Pacers to grow as a team, they needed to develop some of these guys into significant parts of the rotation,... simply because there are only so many minutes in a game, Buddy was going to be the guy on the outside looking in. I Wish him all the best both in Philly and beyond. Hope he catches on with a real contender that needs / uses what he brings to the fullest. He's earned it.

[Wizop]

Gotta agree. Shep is starting to show out. After he has a full summer camp & off season with the team, gotta believe it was likely that he could/would move ahead of Buddy due to age, defense, ball handling.

the other day I was thinking of a second unit for next year and then I realized I'd left Mathurin out.

Haiburton, Nembhard, Nesmith, Siakim, Turner
McConnell, Mathurin, Sheppard, Walker, Brown, Toppin, Smith, Jackson

I like that 13. 12 if Smith walks but OT could be 13.

currently 14 and 15 are McDermott and Johnson.

[JMaster5K]

Gotta agree. Shep is starting to show out. After he has a full summer camp & off season with the team, gotta believe it was likely that he could/would move ahead of Buddy due to age, defense, ball handling.

the other day I was thinking of a second unit for next year and then I realized I'd left Mathurin out.

Haiburton, Nembhard, Nesmith, Siakim, Turner
McConnell, Mathurin, Sheppard, Walker, Brown, Toppin, Smith, Jackson

I like that 13. 12 if Smith walks but OT could be 13.

currently 14 and 15 are McDermott and Johnson.

Once again,... agree. Though,.. I gotta hope that a couple of guys (Mathurin, Sheppard, Walker, ?) mature & improve so much that it moves Nembhard & Nesmith to the bench. Cause if our first 8 is good enough that those 2 are pulling good minutes on the second unit,... THEN, we are a contender. =}

[Wizop]

Once again,... agree. Though,.. I gotta hope that a couple of guys (Mathurin, Sheppard, Walker, ?) mature & improve so much that it moves Nembhard & Nesmith to the bench.

but Nembhard and Nesmith are by far our best wing defenders today.

I wonder how we'll approach the playoffs. most teams shorten their rotation to 7 or 8. will we or will we stick with a full second unit and try to run the legs off the opponent?