Pacers drop to last in NBA attendance

[count55]

This IBJ article talks about the Pacers current financial situation, and the concerns being raised by it.

Sobering thoughts, particularly for those of us who are old enough to remember the telethon and the dark days of Sam Nassi, when the future of the Pacers in Indiana was not only unsure, but in serious doubt.

[Bucky O'Hare]

Good. Maybe this will be enough to finally force management to make serious changes. I'd have no problem with a whole new front office.

[mizzoupacers]

Hopefully the team is just on the down cycle as a result of all the incredibly bad fortune of the last four years or so. The city has showed in the past that it is willing to support the team. I'll bet the stands will fill back up once it looks like the Pacers are headed in the right direction again.

What did the Trailblazers' attendance look like a few years back? Was there concern in Portland about losing the team? I don't follow the Blazers that closely, so I honestly don't know. Maybe Charcoal can tell me?

FWIW, I'm still highly pissed at David Stern--I think he is partly responsible for this. Maybe he will think twice next time before chopping a team's head off. I'm not saying the Pacers haven't brought this on themselves--although much of it has just been incredibly bad luck in having worst-case scenarios play out, every team in the league takes chances on bad-character guys. But Stern's punishments were so unprecedentedly severe, and his overreactions did so much to color public perceptions of the team, that recovering from the disaster has from the start been a lot more difficult than it needed to be.

[Charcoal Filtered]

Portland
2007-08 - 18967
2006-07 - 16360
2005-06 - 15053 (last in league)
2004-05 - 16594
2003-04 - 16585
2002-03 - 19420

Indiana
2007-08 - 12068
2006-07 - 15359
2005-06 - 16179
2004-05 - 16994
2003-04 - 16556
2002-03 - 16352

Just wanted to start out with the numbers. 2002-03 was the last year Portland was satisfied with ticket sales and have now rebounded. Looking at the Pacer numbers, they are not too far off of what Portland considers a down year. Why? (in no particular order)

1. No identifiable star on the team. Compared to the entertainment value that Reggie brought, no one has came close to bringing that type of excitement.

2. Winning. Six games under five hundred is not going to cut it when a Super Bowl contender is next door. The Indy market is very fair weather. I bet there are alot more IU flags flying in yards now that they are winning again.

3. The negative press still pores in - Shawne busted with pot. Tinsley getting shot at late at night. David busted for pot. Still hearing about Tins and Quis in court over last year. Even as a hard core fan, it is hard to call this team mine.

4. The grand old days really were not that grand. As said, the numbers during good seasons were not that far off the lows in Portland.

I see no reason this is going to change since the same people that assembled this group of knuckleheads is still in charge.

I would encourage the fans to stay away until a change is made. Hopefully next year we can get it under 10,000.

[dice]

Portland
Hopefully next year we can get it under 10,000.

wow

[Boneman2]

I'm with Mizzou ^^^

This is the reaction of fans that had a championship snatched out from under them, starting with the suspensions handed down by Stern.

In the blink of an eye we went from contender to laughingstock. Although it took the Pacers many years to earn respect, it was lost overnight.

[granger05]

You can't blame David Stern for this. What was he supposed to do differently. The suspension for Artest is the one decision he made that had a huge affect on this franchise. Honestly, given Artest's history I have a hard time believing that this cost us a championship. Ron has, and had, melted down so many time already prior to that including the year before in the playoffs against Detroit with the late flagrant foul on Hamilton.

You can't blame the suspension for keeping people away. It was Ron that had the biggest negative affect on our team's perception. Then the next year he demanded a trade and the management decided to sit him until a trade partner was found. Stern had nothing to do with that and Ron's prior behavior is what reduced his trade value the most, not some threat of a lifetime ban on a next offense.

Even if Stern had decided to allow us to just cut Artest outright and not take a luxury tax hit, something that would have been a legal battle with the player's union, and also something that our management would have probably had to bring to the table in the first place, his salary wasn't large enough to really make his cap number an ongoing issue.

There have been a lot of moves that have turned us into a mediocre team without a recognizable identity (no star), but I would argue that most of these have been a response to what happened in Auburn Hills and the effort by management to remove the knucklehead component. Portland is cited as an example here because they went through a similar cleansing. The real difference is that Portland elected to bottom out and go young. Our management elected to try and stay competitive. There's another thread somewhere that's been asking the question of which method works best in the long run. Certainly, Portland's had a few lucky breaks with their picks since the JailBlazer days. However, they scouted well and positioned themselves to have those picks. We've traded a lot of our 2nd round picks and even a first round pick. I think that's our biggest issue. Youth tends to bring optimism into the fan base.

[celtspacers]

The problem is Larry Bird. I'm a season ticket holder. I go to every home game. Alot of other season ticket holders i know have stopped coming to the games. They say they will not come to another game until Larry Bird is fired. They're tired of watching this team go down hill every year.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Not just the Artest suspension, but for the most part since the brawls refs have severely screwed us over. We couldn't do anything without being called for a foul, while the other team could do whatever they wanted.

This year, the first year since the brawl, has not been that bad with refs aside from a few games. But David Stern hired those refs, watched those refs, and did nothing.

I remember watching Brevin Knight run into Jamaal Tinsley at full speed while Tinsley was standing still, they called a foul on Tinsley. The call was so bad even the Bobcats were laughing at it.

I remember watching someone run down the court at full speed and body check Brad Miller to get a rebound, they called a foul on Brad Miller who was sitting next to camera men.

It was so ridiculous at one point. So yes, David Stern screwed us over. Isn't there a quote of him saying "Indiana in the finals......I cannot allow this."? I remember seeing it.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

It's not Larry Birds fault. He has made the right trades, the right draft picks, to get us where we should be. The team itself is the one falling apart. The only way to blame Bird is for hiring Obie.

[ajizzle]

Right now, it's the IM-perfect storm for the Pacers, w/ them being bad and the Colts being extremely good, in fact, NFL Champs until about 11pm on Sunday. I don't think that the Pacers have fair-weather fans, but we do have sports fans in Indy, and I'm sure a lot of those lost season-ticket holders for the Pacers have moved over to the Colts.

We're a small market, and just like economics, if you have other options, then you'll choose them.

Portland doesn't have anyone else to compete w/ the market they have on sports, so when times are good, I'd expect the Garden to be full. Add to that the love for good bball in the Portland area, I'd have to assume that they'd be selling out.

But really, it all goes back to winning. Fans are more likely to support winning teams, and problems are infinitely magnified in a small market. Of course, MSG will sellout every night... That place would sellout a breakdancing competition.

But look at Boston... IDK the numbers, but the recent success of the Red Sox probably hurt their ticket sales for the Celtics, especially in some of those down years they've had since the late '80s.

Back to the point... Winning will bring fans in. Losing will move fans out. Every team has its good times and bad. The only difference is how bad are the bad times, and for the Pacers, it can be argued that they're enduring one of the worst times for any team in sports.

[ajizzle]

I hate to say this, but the Pacers have been one of the least respected franchises since the '90s. I remember watching all of those series w/ NY and Orlando and how many calls went against us b/c we didn't have Ewing or Shaq. It was ridiculous!

Ewing's traveling all over the floor, or Shaq's "chicken-wing" move that was an offensive foul at least 1/2 the time (and he used that move 20x a game), both were let go in the era where stars started to get calls. It wasn't as bad as the Jordan Rules, but it was the same concept being executed to a lesser extent.

[Scoot McGroot]

The problem is Larry Bird. I'm a season ticket holder. I go to every home game. Alot of other season ticket holders i know have stopped coming to the games. They say they will not come to another game until Larry Bird is fired. They're tired of watching this team go down hill every year.

Why do they think it's Larry Bird?

Do they think he's the one who built the team for the past 5-10 years? Really, his job didn't start until this past offseason and he's responsible for trading a 2nd rounder in the future to get Stanko, signing Rush, Diener, Owens, and Graham.



I have no idea why they blame Larry.

[pacers33granger]

i think larry bird has done a decent job. with no cap room and no one really looking to sign here, he found us a serviceable veteran in rush. all the other things scoot mentioned are a wash to me personally, but i havent seen any moves specifically by larry that i havent liked.

imo it is partially sterns fault for our quick fall from contender, but its also several strokes of bad luck. before the brawl, we had an amazing team assembled, a hall of fame guard who was a great leader, an mvp candidate big man, a dpoy, a 6th man of the year candidate, a very talented pg, and several other very good role players. what im saying is that i still have confidence that eventually we will get out of this slump and management will bring us back to prominence.

theres no way anyone could have foreseen artest going as nuts as he did, the many injuries to tinsley and oneal, jack being just as nuts as ron, etc. i really think that reggie leaving hurt us quite a bit more than we thought it would initially though. we no longer have someone who we know is taking the last shot, or will do anything to get a win. its never a good thing when tinsley is the one who is taking the big shots.

[Charcoal Filtered]

-= original quote snipped =-








I have no idea why they blame Larry.

It is impossible to see who is responsible for anything the Pacers have done since Bird's hire. I would assume it was Larry that fired Zeke and hired Rick. As for the other trades, only Walsh and Larry know for sure. Whatever braintrust is in charge of personnel decisions can be assumed to be still running things.

[Scoot McGroot]

Yeah, we're still completely unsure of who's made certain decisions in the past 5 years. It seems like they worked together, but I can't imagine either Donnie or Larry really being willing to "cede" control to the other. They both seem like guys who really want the control.



As for David Stern, I hold no ill will towards him for the suspension he handed Ron Artest. I do, however, hold some ill will towards him for not punishing the crowd at the Palace, the Pistons organization, or Ben Wallace correctly. That's my only qualm about that day.

[celtspacers]

Larry Bird has had total control of all the trades and signings since he started with the Pacers. It wasn't Walsh's ideal to hire Bird it was the owners. Walsh has sit back and watched this team go to hell because the owners thought Bird could take his place when he retires at the end of this season. If you go to the Pacers home games and watch the reactions of Bird and Walsh when the team stinks the place up. You will see Walsh sitting in his seat with his hands clinched like he wants to punch someone. Then you will see Larry Bird standing there in the aisle chewing his gum with a grin on his face. Bird has no clue how run a team.

[pacers33granger]

even if all those moves were birds ideas, we still play alright when oneal is seemingly healthy and on his game. we may not be contenders, but without injuries we are still a playoff team (granted we technically are now but thats just due to the terribleness of the eastern conference).

imo, yea the position we are in sucks, but its still better than some teams and it is possible to get back to prominence with a bit of re-tooling, some good draft picks, and progress from the players.

[Scoot McGroot]

Larry Bird has had total control of all the trades and signings since he started with the Pacers. It wasn't Walsh's ideal to hire Bird it was the owners. Walsh has sit back and watched this team go to hell because the owners thought Bird could take his place when he retires at the end of this season. If you go to the Pacers home games and watch the reactions of Bird and Walsh when the team stinks the place up. You will see Walsh sitting in his seat with his hands clinched like he wants to punch someone. Then you will see Larry Bird standing there in the aisle chewing his gum with a grin on his face. Bird has no clue how run a team.

You really think Donnie Walsh, the man who built this franchise, would just sit there, roll over, and give up control that long ago, while acting as if he still is the brain trust? I highly doubt that. As it is, Donnie has always sat in the stands during the entire game with a slightly angry look on his face as long as he's been the GM for Indy, so that doesn't really give any new input on this.



While I hate sounding like a Bird apologist (because I'm not), I cannot understand how people think Bird has secretly run this franchise for the past 5 years. It just hasn't happened. The past 3 years? 10% chance, yeah. The past 2 years? 35%. Last year and this year? 50/50. This year? 100% Larry.

[fredjones20]

i think the pacers need to bite the bullet and really go after players...larry bird has brought NO ONE to this team via FA... the simons really need to just say we are willing to spend money improve this team..there are a heck of alot of good FA's this year but we wont sign 1 big star that will help bring this franchise to were it used to be. JO is not the man...Danny is not the man...dunleavy is good but his not a franchise player...we need to either trade to get a star or sign a FA but what FA is going to want to come to indiana and play with this team...everyone wants to play for contenders...we may make the playoffs but we wont contend for one if we dont make moves...something needs to be done to excite the city again of pacer basketball