Week 4: Jaguars @ 49ers

[wco81]

We should discuss in the Shanahan contract extension thread.

He can be a good coach but still not a championship coach, which is becoming more apparent with every passing year.

As long as he's in charge, this franchise is just going to grind its gears, only now it has a very expensive roster.

So when key players are out, they have to rely on much lower-level subs like Farrell who fumbled.

Purdy had to target Tonges and Bourne, because Pearsall was probably getting too much attention before he got injured.

Pearsall and Jennings should be 2nd and 3rd options at best, much lower when Kittle is playing.

In any event, it's likely that by the end of the year, they've become a treadmill team, just good enough to get into the playoffs or just miss the playoffs, so their drafting position is in the middle of the draft order.

[CrimsonCrew]

We should discuss in the Shanahan contract extension thread.

He can be a good coach but still not a championship coach, which is becoming more apparent with every passing year.

As long as he's in charge, this franchise is just going to grind its gears, only now it has a very expensive roster.

So when key players are out, they have to rely on much lower-level subs like Farrell who fumbled.

Purdy had to target Tonges and Bourne, because Pearsall was probably getting too much attention before he got injured.

Pearsall and Jennings should be 2nd and 3rd options at best, much lower when Kittle is playing.

In any event, it's likely that by the end of the year, they've become a treadmill team, just good enough to get into the playoffs or just miss the playoffs, so their drafting position is in the middle of the draft order.

IMO, that view is a classic case of devaluing your coach and not appreciating what else is out there. He's come as close to a championship as you can get, and it took a very, very fluky game to cost him a championship. And sure, he deserves plenty of blame for the team failing to make it all the way there, but he had the team in great position to do it in the last SB, and was let down by players on the field.

Again, since Shanahan took our HC gig, only three other coaches who remain in the league have won SBs. McVay likely wouldn't have won his if Jaquiski Tartt could have caught one of the easiest INTs in the history of organized football. It's a game of inches, and sometimes the inches go against you in ways you can't control.

[wco81]

We should discuss in the Shanahan contract extension thread.

He can be a good coach but still not a championship coach, which is becoming more apparent with every passing year.

As long as he's in charge, this franchise is just going to grind its gears, only now it has a very expensive roster.

So when key players are out, they have to rely on much lower-level subs like Farrell who fumbled.

Purdy had to target Tonges and Bourne, because Pearsall was probably getting too much attention before he got injured.

Pearsall and Jennings should be 2nd and 3rd options at best, much lower when Kittle is playing.

In any event, it's likely that by the end of the year, they've become a treadmill team, just good enough to get into the playoffs or just miss the playoffs, so their drafting position is in the middle of the draft order.

IMO, that view is a classic case of devaluing your coach and not appreciating what else is out there. He's come as close to a championship as you can get, and it took a very, very fluky game to cost him a championship. And sure, he deserves plenty of blame for the team failing to make it all the way there, but he had the team in great position to do it in the last SB, and was let down by players on the field.

Again, since Shanahan took our HC gig, only three other coaches who remain in the league have won SBs. McVay likely wouldn't have won his if Jaquiski Tartt could have caught one of the easiest INTs in the history of organized football. It's a game of inches, and sometimes the inches go against you in ways you can't control.

My point is, team is more likely to need a roster reset in the next couple of seasons than reach another SB. FAR more likely.

So this is his 9th season with the 49ers -- though it's weird because there are the pandemic-shortened seasons in there.

I've never heard of a HC doing another rebuild so far into his tenure with a single team. Maybe the Steelers did since they keep their coaches forever.

After 9 seasons in which he likely won't have won a SB, how many more seasons do you give him?

He's under contract through the 2027 season. By then it will have been 11 seasons and if he still hasn't won it yet, go in again? I'm somewhat surprised that he's only 45. Seems older, like a decade older. Well at least there are some young assistants.

Close doesn't mean anything. Ask the Atlanta Falcons and their fans about that.

[thesack12]

We should discuss in the Shanahan contract extension thread.

He can be a good coach but still not a championship coach, which is becoming more apparent with every passing year.

As long as he's in charge, this franchise is just going to grind its gears, only now it has a very expensive roster.

So when key players are out, they have to rely on much lower-level subs like Farrell who fumbled.

Purdy had to target Tonges and Bourne, because Pearsall was probably getting too much attention before he got injured.

Pearsall and Jennings should be 2nd and 3rd options at best, much lower when Kittle is playing.

In any event, it's likely that by the end of the year, they've become a treadmill team, just good enough to get into the playoffs or just miss the playoffs, so their drafting position is in the middle of the draft order.

IMO, that view is a classic case of devaluing your coach and not appreciating what else is out there. He's come as close to a championship as you can get, and it took a very, very fluky game to cost him a championship. And sure, he deserves plenty of blame for the team failing to make it all the way there, but he had the team in great position to do it in the last SB, and was let down by players on the field.

Again, since Shanahan took our HC gig, only three other coaches who remain in the league have won SBs. McVay likely wouldn't have won his if Jaquiski Tartt could have caught one of the easiest INTs in the history of organized football. It's a game of inches, and sometimes the inches go against you in ways you can't control.

Well Said.

Wco has pined for the likes of Brian Daboll, and more recently caught a severe case of Lion envy. Neither of which have reached the level of success that the Shanahan led 49ers have. Let alone been able to do have any type of sustained high level success.

As Crims has elaborated on multiple times, Kyle absolutely has some faults, some of which have hampered the team in critical moments. But to act like Kyle is some type of bad coach, is just absurd.

Sure you can point to individual draft picks, signings, trades, play calls, etc and relay plenty of justified criticism. However, you can't be hypocritical and criticize Kyle for "not winning" with super talented roster while simultaneously not giving him any credit for building said rosters.

When looking at the 10,000 foot view the 49ers have been highly successful with Kyle at the helm. I get it, we all are hyper focused on our own teams so its easy to fixate on and obsess over the mistakes. But you need to consider the conglomerate of the team situation. There should also be a grading curve involved. Every team is going to make mistakes in the draft, on the trade market, in free agency, assistant coaching hires, situational play calling, and every other part of NFL football. But since a lot of people don't pay more than surface level attention to other teams, they aren't aware or don't care about other teams mistakes.

Kyle inherited a truly terrible team, and got them to the Super Bowl in year 3. And that wasn't a one off. 9ers have 2 super Bowl berths, and 2 Conference game appearances.

I would also like to see a case study that shows where any other team in history has suffered the relentless bad injury luck the 49ers have the last several seasons, and not only been able to stay mostly competitive but are perennial contenders.

To summarize, its damn difficult to win in the NFL. This is even more true, if you don't have a truly elite QB. SF has not had one of those during Kyle's tenure.

The one thing I've never seen from the Kyle haters is for them to come forward with a better option. To add another layer to that, by wanting to get rid of Kyle, those people clearly setting the standard of that guy has to win a Super Bowl, or else he's a failure.

[thesack12]

We should discuss in the Shanahan contract extension thread.

He can be a good coach but still not a championship coach, which is becoming more apparent with every passing year.

As long as he's in charge, this franchise is just going to grind its gears, only now it has a very expensive roster.

So when key players are out, they have to rely on much lower-level subs like Farrell who fumbled.

Purdy had to target Tonges and Bourne, because Pearsall was probably getting too much attention before he got injured.

Pearsall and Jennings should be 2nd and 3rd options at best, much lower when Kittle is playing.

In any event, it's likely that by the end of the year, they've become a treadmill team, just good enough to get into the playoffs or just miss the playoffs, so their drafting position is in the middle of the draft order.

IMO, that view is a classic case of devaluing your coach and not appreciating what else is out there. He's come as close to a championship as you can get, and it took a very, very fluky game to cost him a championship. And sure, he deserves plenty of blame for the team failing to make it all the way there, but he had the team in great position to do it in the last SB, and was let down by players on the field.

Again, since Shanahan took our HC gig, only three other coaches who remain in the league have won SBs. McVay likely wouldn't have won his if Jaquiski Tartt could have caught one of the easiest INTs in the history of organized football. It's a game of inches, and sometimes the inches go against you in ways you can't control.

My point is, team is more likely to need a roster reset in the next couple of seasons than reach another SB. FAR more likely.

So this is his 9th season with the 49ers -- though it's weird because there are the pandemic-shortened seasons in there.

I've never heard of a HC doing another rebuild so far into his tenure with a single team. Maybe the Steelers did since they keep their coaches forever.

After 9 seasons in which he likely won't have won a SB, how many more seasons do you give him?

He's under contract through the 2027 season. By then it will have been 11 seasons and if he still hasn't won it yet, go in again? I'm somewhat surprised that he's only 45. Seems older, like a decade older. Well at least there are some young assistants.

Close doesn't mean anything. Ask the Atlanta Falcons and their fans about that.

Go ask Jet, Brown, Raider, Texan, Jaguar, Colt, Titan, Falcon, Viking, Lion, Saint, Dolphin, Bengal, Charger, Commander, Cowboy, Bear, Panther, Cardinal fans if they would trade their last 8-9 years of fandom with 49er fans'. That was just the list of low hanging fruit, there are probably several more fan bases which would gladly swap places.

[CrimsonCrew]

We should discuss in the Shanahan contract extension thread.

He can be a good coach but still not a championship coach, which is becoming more apparent with every passing year.

As long as he's in charge, this franchise is just going to grind its gears, only now it has a very expensive roster.

So when key players are out, they have to rely on much lower-level subs like Farrell who fumbled.

Purdy had to target Tonges and Bourne, because Pearsall was probably getting too much attention before he got injured.

Pearsall and Jennings should be 2nd and 3rd options at best, much lower when Kittle is playing.

In any event, it's likely that by the end of the year, they've become a treadmill team, just good enough to get into the playoffs or just miss the playoffs, so their drafting position is in the middle of the draft order.

IMO, that view is a classic case of devaluing your coach and not appreciating what else is out there. He's come as close to a championship as you can get, and it took a very, very fluky game to cost him a championship. And sure, he deserves plenty of blame for the team failing to make it all the way there, but he had the team in great position to do it in the last SB, and was let down by players on the field.

Again, since Shanahan took our HC gig, only three other coaches who remain in the league have won SBs. McVay likely wouldn't have won his if Jaquiski Tartt could have caught one of the easiest INTs in the history of organized football. It's a game of inches, and sometimes the inches go against you in ways you can't control.

My point is, team is more likely to need a roster reset in the next couple of seasons than reach another SB. FAR more likely.

So this is his 9th season with the 49ers -- though it's weird because there are the pandemic-shortened seasons in there.

I've never heard of a HC doing another rebuild so far into his tenure with a single team. Maybe the Steelers did since they keep their coaches forever.

After 9 seasons in which he likely won't have won a SB, how many more seasons do you give him?

He's under contract through the 2027 season. By then it will have been 11 seasons and if he still hasn't won it yet, go in again? I'm somewhat surprised that he's only 45. Seems older, like a decade older. Well at least there are some young assistants.

Close doesn't mean anything. Ask the Atlanta Falcons and their fans about that.

In the last decade, only seven coaches have won a super bowl. Two of them coached the greatest QB of all time, and a third coaches a guy who is definitely top-3. It's hard to do. If your benchmark is winning the SB or kicking them to the curb, you're going to cycle through an awful lot of mediocre coaches searching - likely in vain - for an improvement.

Additionally, what do we mean by a rebuild? This FO has added a lot of promising players recently, and they're playing very well all things considered. Let's let this season play out before we declare this a long-term rebuild. Even then, this season likely isn't dispositive. The Ravens lost a foundational piece of their DL and they suck. They're 1-3 and in freefall. That's before losing their starting QB. How many coaches would be 3-1 after losing the starting QB and two HOF-caliber players?

[Harry Palmer]

I don’t think there is any facet of a HC that is good enough to get you to OT in the Superbowl Owl but absolutely not good enough to win it. Yes, there are elements of Kyle’s outlook that drive me to distraction, particularly his willingness to completely make up the OT rotation on the fly with bubblegum and string, his career long apathy re: special teams and his willingness to put his QBs and RBs in harm’s way more than most coaches I have ever seen. He’s definitely not perfect.

But he is amongst the best in the game and I think the odds of him tweaking his style enough to get it done are greater than finding a comparable HC off the scrap heap. I totally get people who are done with him, provided they can name a better candidate.