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2020 Offseason

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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#481 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:42 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:Taylor and Samuel were talented enough to warrant their picks, Sanders was worth it (Super Bowl), and Aiyuk is not known yet. I'm not one to blame the GM for odd injuries that happen so putting Hurd in the unknown is not unreasonable.

They have certainly been unlucky with WR injuries, every name on that list other than Aiyuk and Sanders missed games. It seems the 49ers struggle with injuries a LOT.


Samuel is a prime example of the FO's issue, IMO. Sure, in a vacuum he was talented enough. But in the context of that draft, we could have traded back and almost certainly still gotten him, and definitely still gotten AJ Brown. The Sanders trade was worth it, even though I felt we overpaid at the time, but it's still frustrating to give up those high value picks for a one-year rental. If we had taken McLaurin instead of Hurd in the third last year, I don't think we make that mid-season trade.


But you don't know that to be true. You are basing it on the mock draft world and they are regularly wildly wrong. It only takes one team to see the same thing in a player to lose him. It's data we essentially never get (I wish we did) ... how every team actually ranked players they didn't take. And I'm not going to blame a team for a draft pick getting injured because that's using data they didn't have available when they made the decision.

Whenever a player goes above the consensus mock draft position the team made a "major mistake", if the player then becomes an all-pro nobody really talks about it anymore. Every year there are players I like much higher than their "ranking" and sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wildly wrong.

I agree and also think Shanahan falls in love with a player and does over-value/over-pay for them, but I don't agree that the players would "almost certainly" be available much later in the draft/for significantly less FA money.

On the bright side, now that the 49ers are not a leaguewide laughingstock FAs should be willing to join the 49ers for at or maybe even below market rather than far above market.


I do know that they could have traded back and still gotten AJ Brown because he was still on the board. One pick after we took Samuel, the Seahawks traded 37 for 47 and 77. We should have made that trade. No receivers went between Samuel and Brown, and Brown went 51st. I think it is exceedingly likely that Samuel would have lasted that long as well, but even if he wasn't, we would have gotten Brown.

I don't fault the team all that much for the Hurd injuries, but Hurd had injury issues coming out, so it's not like it was surprising he has continued to deal with them as a pro.

I appreciate these are relatively small complaints. Shanahan and Lynch have done an exceptional job of overhauling the roster and implementing their vision, and they deserve a lot of credit for it.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#482 » by Bald Bull » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:29 am

I'm staring to let myself get excited about Jet.

Jerick McKinnon embarrassing 49ers linebackers in training camp
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/138994-jerick-mckinnon-embarrassing-49ers-linebackers-training-camp/
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#483 » by thesack12 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:44 am

Read on Twitter


And the hits just keep on coming
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#484 » by I_am_1z » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:47 am

Bald Bull wrote:I'm staring to let myself get excited about Jet.

Jerick McKinnon embarrassing 49ers linebackers in training camp
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/138994-jerick-mckinnon-embarrassing-49ers-linebackers-training-camp/


This is great to see. It was only a few months ago the beat writers were saying he still wasn't comfortable cutting. I wonder if he's wearing a brace in camp. Tevin Coleman doesn't need to see the field next year. As for the LBs, it's kind of worrisome. Fred Warner is overrated, hopefully Kwon is over his injury, Greenlaw just isn't athletic enough, the other guy, Al-Something, is useless. We need to protect Kwon at all costs or else.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#485 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:56 pm

I_am_1z wrote:
Bald Bull wrote:I'm staring to let myself get excited about Jet.

Jerick McKinnon embarrassing 49ers linebackers in training camp
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/138994-jerick-mckinnon-embarrassing-49ers-linebackers-training-camp/


This is great to see. It was only a few months ago the beat writers were saying he still wasn't comfortable cutting. I wonder if he's wearing a brace in camp. Tevin Coleman doesn't need to see the field next year. As for the LBs, it's kind of worrisome. Fred Warner is overrated, hopefully Kwon is over his injury, Greenlaw just isn't athletic enough, the other guy, Al-Something, is useless. We need to protect Kwon at all costs or else.


Greenlaw isn't athletic enough? I think it was PFF ranked him the 3rd best pass protecting LB over the last 3rd of the season. He seemed to be plenty athletic. He may struggle some for not being big enough, but I haven't seen his athleticism being an issue.

Al-Shaair was an undrafted rookie coming off an ACL. The fact that he played at all let alone as well as he did on occasion was a positive. "Useless" is harsh ... we've seen some really terrible linebackers, Al-Shaair has shown some flashes and regardless it's way too early to call.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#486 » by I_am_1z » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:53 am

Scoots1994 wrote:
I_am_1z wrote:
Bald Bull wrote:I'm staring to let myself get excited about Jet.

Jerick McKinnon embarrassing 49ers linebackers in training camp
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/138994-jerick-mckinnon-embarrassing-49ers-linebackers-training-camp/


This is great to see. It was only a few months ago the beat writers were saying he still wasn't comfortable cutting. I wonder if he's wearing a brace in camp. Tevin Coleman doesn't need to see the field next year. As for the LBs, it's kind of worrisome. Fred Warner is overrated, hopefully Kwon is over his injury, Greenlaw just isn't athletic enough, the other guy, Al-Something, is useless. We need to protect Kwon at all costs or else.


Greenlaw isn't athletic enough? I think it was PFF ranked him the 3rd best pass protecting LB over the last 3rd of the season. He seemed to be plenty athletic. He may struggle some for not being big enough, but I haven't seen his athleticism being an issue.

Al-Shaair was an undrafted rookie coming off an ACL. The fact that he played at all let alone as well as he did on occasion was a positive. "Useless" is harsh ... we've seen some really terrible linebackers, Al-Shaair has shown some flashes and regardless it's way too early to call.


Al-Something got ran over by Taysum Hill on a 4th or 3rd and 1 play. I will not pretend he's anything other than useless.

I know Greenlaw is good in coverage. I actually believe he's better than Warner at LB, but the guy is by no stretch of the imagination ever going to be considered an athletic LB.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#487 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:07 pm

PFF on the Niners' LBs, for that it's worth:

10. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
The 49ers have revamped their linebacking corps over the past three years and now boast a solid unit that fits their defensive scheme. Fred Warner has emerged as one of the better coverage linebackers in the league in his two seasons but needs to cut down on his 37 missed tackles, the sixth-highest total during that time. Warner’s 74.5 coverage grade ranked 11th last year, and he has 14 pass breakups and two interceptions in his young career.

Kwon Alexander returns for his second season in San Francisco after being limited to just 423 snaps last year. Alexander is another rangy, middle-of-the-field defender who usually grades well in coverage. However, he has tackling issues of his own, missing 13 of his 46 attempts last year to form the worst rate in the league. One of the unsung heroes of the 49ers' Super Bowl run was 2019 fifth-rounder Dre Greenlaw, who stepped in with a 72.6 coverage grade that ranked 15th in the league while missing only four tackles including the playoffs.

Joe Walker joins the 49ers to add depth after grading out at 46.2 on 537 snaps for the Cardinals last season. San Francisco has one of the best groups of coverage linebackers in the league — it just needs to cut down on the missed tackles to live up to its potential.


Coverage seems to be a strength for these guys generally speaking.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#488 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:25 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:PFF on the Niners' LBs, for that it's worth:

10. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
The 49ers have revamped their linebacking corps over the past three years and now boast a solid unit that fits their defensive scheme. Fred Warner has emerged as one of the better coverage linebackers in the league in his two seasons but needs to cut down on his 37 missed tackles, the sixth-highest total during that time. Warner’s 74.5 coverage grade ranked 11th last year, and he has 14 pass breakups and two interceptions in his young career.

Kwon Alexander returns for his second season in San Francisco after being limited to just 423 snaps last year. Alexander is another rangy, middle-of-the-field defender who usually grades well in coverage. However, he has tackling issues of his own, missing 13 of his 46 attempts last year to form the worst rate in the league. One of the unsung heroes of the 49ers' Super Bowl run was 2019 fifth-rounder Dre Greenlaw, who stepped in with a 72.6 coverage grade that ranked 15th in the league while missing only four tackles including the playoffs.

Joe Walker joins the 49ers to add depth after grading out at 46.2 on 537 snaps for the Cardinals last season. San Francisco has one of the best groups of coverage linebackers in the league — it just needs to cut down on the missed tackles to live up to its potential.


Coverage seems to be a strength for these guys generally speaking.


Kwon's missed tackles seem to come and go. It's been a problem his whole career.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#489 » by wco81 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:34 pm

They're both undersized aren't they?

So they're not the type of physical bangers who go head first for contact.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#490 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:01 pm

wco81 wrote:They're both undersized aren't they?

So they're not the type of physical bangers who go head first for contact.


Correct. They are more built for pass coverage and range to fill outside gaps. They rely on multiple men showing up on inside runs and the line clogging it up ... Jones being injured last year really hurt.

They do fill head up, but they will be eaten up by o-linemen.

Kwon can fly but he guesses on runs and he misses too many tackles. I think his leadership played a significant role because the rest of the defense is very cerebral and not the hype guys every team needs ... that's Kwon.

I don't know if it's worth a roster spot for a bigger run stuffing LB. Nzeocha is the biggest LB on the roster at 240lbs and he's more of an OLB.

Kinlaw is going to take a little time to learn the interior games for stacking up the line, Jones HAS to stay healthy.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#491 » by wco81 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:55 pm

Yeah they need some downhill gap fillers.

Used to like Plummer and Norton tandem. Plummer was textbook, always taking the G on the correct shoulder to hold his position and tackle the runner.

Now he didn't have much range, but he kept his starting spot for years. Once he was injured and Kevin Mitchell took over his spot and Plummer said his wife joked about how he had nothing to worry since his replacement was younger, stronger and faster.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#492 » by Bald Bull » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:26 pm

49ers announce signings of receivers Kevin White and River Cracraft to one-year deals
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/139151-49ers-announce-signings-receivers-kevin-white-cracraft-one-year/

I don't remember who, but i remember someone here liked him alot out of college, but injuries hurt his career. maybe he'll turn it around with us :pray:
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#493 » by Scoots1994 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:52 pm

wco81 wrote:Yeah they need some downhill gap fillers.

Used to like Plummer and Norton tandem. Plummer was textbook, always taking the G on the correct shoulder to hold his position and tackle the runner.

Now he didn't have much range, but he kept his starting spot for years. Once he was injured and Kevin Mitchell took over his spot and Plummer said his wife joked about how he had nothing to worry since his replacement was younger, stronger and faster.


This defensive scheme in this NFL makes more sense than having a Plummer type on the field. More important to have the speed and coverage ability.

I love Gary Plummer. It still pisses me off that the 49ers fired him for telling the truth on the radio.

I think it was Bryant Young who said that Plummer's just before the snap call of TANK or JET to say that he thought it was a run or pass play coming was so accurate in 1994 that the entire defense just started assuming he was right and selling out based on that call. He said that that alone was what took them from being a decent or good defense to a dominant one. He said that the last third of the season and through the playoffs Plummer didn't miss a single play call.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#494 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:06 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
wco81 wrote:Yeah they need some downhill gap fillers.

Used to like Plummer and Norton tandem. Plummer was textbook, always taking the G on the correct shoulder to hold his position and tackle the runner.

Now he didn't have much range, but he kept his starting spot for years. Once he was injured and Kevin Mitchell took over his spot and Plummer said his wife joked about how he had nothing to worry since his replacement was younger, stronger and faster.


This defensive scheme in this NFL makes more sense than having a Plummer type on the field. More important to have the speed and coverage ability.

I love Gary Plummer. It still pisses me off that the 49ers fired him for telling the truth on the radio.

I think it was Bryant Young who said that Plummer's just before the snap call of TANK or JET to say that he thought it was a run or pass play coming was so accurate in 1994 that the entire defense just started assuming he was right and selling out based on that call. He said that that alone was what took them from being a decent or good defense to a dominant one. He said that the last third of the season and through the playoffs Plummer didn't miss a single play call.


Didn't Plummer get fired for that really uncomfortable radio interview where he spoke explicitly about various sex acts?
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#495 » by wco81 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:43 pm

Yeah Plummer couldn't cover.

But job one is to stop the run or else you will never see a pass attempted against you.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#496 » by Scoots1994 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:23 am

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
wco81 wrote:Yeah they need some downhill gap fillers.

Used to like Plummer and Norton tandem. Plummer was textbook, always taking the G on the correct shoulder to hold his position and tackle the runner.

Now he didn't have much range, but he kept his starting spot for years. Once he was injured and Kevin Mitchell took over his spot and Plummer said his wife joked about how he had nothing to worry since his replacement was younger, stronger and faster.


This defensive scheme in this NFL makes more sense than having a Plummer type on the field. More important to have the speed and coverage ability.

I love Gary Plummer. It still pisses me off that the 49ers fired him for telling the truth on the radio.

I think it was Bryant Young who said that Plummer's just before the snap call of TANK or JET to say that he thought it was a run or pass play coming was so accurate in 1994 that the entire defense just started assuming he was right and selling out based on that call. He said that that alone was what took them from being a decent or good defense to a dominant one. He said that the last third of the season and through the playoffs Plummer didn't miss a single play call.


Didn't Plummer get fired for that really uncomfortable radio interview where he spoke explicitly about various sex acts?


From Plummer:

They talked to me four or five times during the year about being too hard on the team, and they needed to fill the stadium. I don’t think that’s my job as an analyst. My job is to state the facts, and the team was 0-5, and three players had quit and they had fired their offensive coordinator. And fans had a right to know why.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#497 » by Scoots1994 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:28 am

wco81 wrote:Yeah Plummer couldn't cover.

But job one is to stop the run or else you will never see a pass attempted against you.


I agree, but teams now are much worse at running against a defense setup to stop the run than they were back when Plummer was playing, and teams are much better at attacking those defenses with the pass than they were back then.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#498 » by Cactus Jack » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:40 am

So what's the deal with Deebo Samuel? Is he gonna be back? Or does he start the season on PUP?
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#499 » by CrimsonCrew » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:22 am

Cactus Jack wrote:So what's the deal with Deebo Samuel? Is he gonna be back? Or does he start the season on PUP?


I don't think he'll go on the PUP, but I'm also not confident that he'll be ready for week one. I'm guessing he'll come back around week three our four unless we're really hurting for receiving options.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#500 » by Scoots1994 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:27 am

Cactus Jack wrote:So what's the deal with Deebo Samuel? Is he gonna be back? Or does he start the season on PUP?


Jones fractures are prone to being re-injured if they rush back. My guess is he misses at least game 1.

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