ImageImageImageImageImage

OFFICIAL firings - Baalke and Kelly talk ONLY.

Moderators: CalamityX12, MHSL82

NinerSickness
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,555
And1: 339
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
 

Re: SF 49ers FO & Coaching Staff: 

Post#141 » by NinerSickness » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:14 am

ChrisPozz wrote:
NinerSickness wrote:
Ray_Dogg wrote:JLC tweeted 49ers are interested ...

McDaniels or Vance Joseph for coach.


I'll take McDaniels given those options. I don't want the team to hand over the reigns to someone who was coaching the Bengals' defensive backs 2 years ago.


For two seasons. If it's a style/scheme/prodcedural thing for you, fine. But there was a significant noticeable difference in the way those few guys played with him after he got there and earned rave reviews, for whatever it's worth. Not that one can't make a case against him, because you usually can with a coach that's never been a HC before, but I think you could make quite a few worse moves than Joseph from the pool of guys who don't previously have experience.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2016/01/12/vance-joseph-leaves-bengals-dolphins-dc-job/78705356/

..........and for the record. Would LOVE to point out for a select few on here (if they're still around) Joseph was on that absolutely, ridiculously loaded staff he had throughout his years in SF. Still can't believe some of the garbage that was spewed about that from those days. I'll say it again. Say what you want about him personally but the man could recruit and consistently build an excellent staff full of legit teachers/stars.


It wouldn't concern you that the HC only has 1 season's experience as a coordinator?
Ray_Dogg
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 4,906
And1: 265
Joined: May 09, 2014
       

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#142 » by Ray_Dogg » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:24 am

Free agency worked out pretty well for the Broncos and Giants on defense recently.
thesack12
RealGM
Posts: 17,907
And1: 2,226
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: SF 49ers FO & Coaching Staff: 

Post#143 » by thesack12 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:37 am

Jikkle wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Jikkle wrote:
Cap space

#1 or #2 overall pick and 9 maybe more picks in the draft

Roster is young and has some pieces to work and the way it's constructed you can mold it in any direction you want.

The roster overall is terrible but that's almost any job you're going to walk into as a GM. The whole reason you're taking over the job is because the roster is bad.


This isn't considered to be a great draft, especially if you're at #2. There is no clear cut #2 talent, and no legit QB prospects to artificially inflate up the value. #2 isn't nearly as valuable as it has been in years past, specifically years like last year.

The roster is so bad with select few surefire pieces to build around, that its going to take several years to build/mold the roster the way the GM would want. In this ever present have to win now NFL, that GM could be fired before "his" roster comes into its own.


Garrett and Allen are easily the top 2 guys right now.

Despite the QBs coming out there will be interest in trading up in that spot for them. If teams were willing to move up for Goff and Wentz they'll be willing to move up for the guys in this draft. The Jets would be the team to look out for here as they reportly Trubisky and I can see them looking to make a move for a QB.


I've seen 4-5 different guys being talked about going #2. Which means there isn't a clear cut #2 talent in this draft.

Yes Goff and Wentz weren't surefire franchise cornerstones, but both were seen as better prospects going into their draft than any QB in this draft. Case in point, if Frisco is as desperate for a QB as everyone claims and either Trubisky or Kizer are worthy of going #2 they won't consider moving back or taking any of the defensive players.

When there is a clear cut #2 prospect, that pick holds much more value than a draft where any of 5 guys could make a case for #2. See the 2012 and 2016 draft when #2 fetched a kings ransom because teams wanted RG3 and Wentz.

Now it could still happen that a team gets antsy and falls in love with a certain guy leading them to make a huge offer for #2. But for that to happen it has to be based on a QB. QB prospects are what makes top draft picks especially valuable. Nobody is going to step up and make a huge offer to draft a Jadeveon Clowney, Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, or Greg Robinson.
thesack12
RealGM
Posts: 17,907
And1: 2,226
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: SF 49ers FO & Coaching Staff: 

Post#144 » by thesack12 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:38 am

Ray_Dogg wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Jikkle wrote:Regarding the GM job the ownership diminishes its appeal but I still think the 9ers gig is going to be quite appealing for potential GMs.

It's one of the better situations for a new GM to walk into.


How so, the cap space and weather?

The roster is legit bottom 5 caliber, and with York and Maraathe still in place that's not exactly going to be viewed in a positive light.


Marasthe might be the best in the league at what he does. I would consider it a positive to have that good of a contract writer.

His involvement in personnel decision making is overblown to say the least. GMs pick their guys.


Maraathe is a proven rat, and will be looked at negatively.
ChrisPozz
RealGM
Posts: 16,127
And1: 450
Joined: Sep 07, 2014
 

Re: SF 49ers FO & Coaching Staff: 

Post#145 » by ChrisPozz » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:42 am

NinerSickness wrote:
ChrisPozz wrote:
NinerSickness wrote:
I'll take McDaniels given those options. I don't want the team to hand over the reigns to someone who was coaching the Bengals' defensive backs 2 years ago.


For two seasons. If it's a style/scheme/prodcedural thing for you, fine. But there was a significant noticeable difference in the way those few guys played with him after he got there and earned rave reviews, for whatever it's worth. Not that one can't make a case against him, because you usually can with a coach that's never been a HC before, but I think you could make quite a few worse moves than Joseph from the pool of guys who don't previously have experience.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2016/01/12/vance-joseph-leaves-bengals-dolphins-dc-job/78705356/

..........and for the record. Would LOVE to point out for a select few on here (if they're still around) Joseph was on that absolutely, ridiculously loaded staff he had throughout his years in SF. Still can't believe some of the garbage that was spewed about that from those days. I'll say it again. Say what you want about him personally but the man could recruit and consistently build an excellent staff full of legit teachers/stars.


It wouldn't concern you that the HC only has 1 season's experience as a coordinator?


Sure. That part about him would have to be on his knocks list. That alone wouldn't eliminate him from consideration if it was me and I had to be realistic. Face it, they aren't getting my personal 1a, 1b, and 1c option in Urban Meyer. They aren't getting a lot of guys if you ask me.

I said I could make a case against him but I bet I could do that for many names you could give me. When I stack Vance Joseph up against many of the realistic names that are being discussed, I think this team could do a whole heck of a lot worse, and likely will (have to), than Joseph.

Many of his strengths are things I want to see in a bridge coach who can stabilize the ship for a couple of seasons so that they can realistically have a shot at swinging for the fences (like an Urban Meyer) if the money is still pouring in.

He's a proven communicator and teacher up to this point in his career, has one of the better assistant coaching relationship nets on both sides of the ball that I have studied, is extremely detailed, has put in tons of work and thought into what it means to program build, is reportedly not stuck in his ways and is very flexible in his methods, and stylistically favors a lot of the same types of things on both sides of the ball (size, length, does not shy away from projects, etc.) that I want to see this team run into the future.

Yes, ideally I wish he'd have several years of play-calling under his belt because that's a hole in his resume, but in comparison to many of the other guys who also don't have that experience, he's easily a standout among those and some of his other positives are things that some of the better play callers don't have themselves IMO. So no, with HIM specifically it wouldn't rule him out for me because he has a lot going for him IMO.
thesack12
RealGM
Posts: 17,907
And1: 2,226
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#146 » by thesack12 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:47 am

We need to take into consideration what other openings are out there.

Current HC vacancies:

Buffalo
Denver
Jacksonville
Los Angeles
San Diego
San Francisco

Of those, on the surface only Denver would appear to be considered attractive and they don't have a solid QB in place. Obviously depending on specific candidates' ties and desires that is an objective evaluation.

Besides Denver, Jacksonville probably has the most attractive roster overall but has a bad QB situation. LA has a nice collection on defense

SF is the only team on that list with a GM vacancy as well, which is a factor.
NinerSickness
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,555
And1: 339
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
 

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#147 » by NinerSickness » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:48 am

I want Nick Saban.
Ray_Dogg
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 4,906
And1: 265
Joined: May 09, 2014
       

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#148 » by Ray_Dogg » Mon Jan 2, 2017 3:58 am

Make everyone healthy on SD and they are attractive.
ChrisPozz
RealGM
Posts: 16,127
And1: 450
Joined: Sep 07, 2014
 

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#149 » by ChrisPozz » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:00 am

NinerSickness wrote:I want Nick Saban.


I don't have strong feelings for or against Saban actually until you start to present me with the possibilities of the structure around him.

Either way, Saban would fall in the "can't get, won't happen, move on" bucket when it comes to the 49ers IMO. Could they offer him total control of the roster/personnel department and give him Belichick/Jo. Harbaugh/Payton/Reid money ($7.5M) to get it to happen? Sure, that's probably what they'd have to do. But I don't think they'd do that for Saban.
49er4life1979
Pro Prospect
Posts: 821
And1: 35
Joined: Sep 22, 2014
   

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#150 » by 49er4life1979 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:03 am

49ers have reached out to Josh McDaniels. Reportedly Jed has always liked him. But I thought they were hiring the GM first?
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 61,713
And1: 69,197
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#151 » by clyde21 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:04 am

ChrisPozz wrote:
NinerSickness wrote:I want Nick Saban.


I don't have strong feelings for or against Saban actually until you start to present me with the possibilities of the structure around him.

Either way, Saban would fall in the "can't get, won't happen, move on" bucket when it comes to the 49ers IMO. Could they offer him total control of the roster/personnel department and give him Belichick/Jo. Harbaugh/Payton/Reid money ($7.5M) to get it to happen? Sure, that's probably what they'd have to do. But I don't think they'd do that for Saban.


Any chance we can get Harbaugh back? :wink:
ChrisPozz
RealGM
Posts: 16,127
And1: 450
Joined: Sep 07, 2014
 

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#152 » by ChrisPozz » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:06 am

clyde21 wrote:
ChrisPozz wrote:
NinerSickness wrote:I want Nick Saban.


I don't have strong feelings for or against Saban actually until you start to present me with the possibilities of the structure around him.

Either way, Saban would fall in the "can't get, won't happen, move on" bucket when it comes to the 49ers IMO. Could they offer him total control of the roster/personnel department and give him Belichick/Jo. Harbaugh/Payton/Reid money ($7.5M) to get it to happen? Sure, that's probably what they'd have to do. But I don't think they'd do that for Saban.


Any chance we can get Harbaugh back? :wink:


I put Jo. Harbaugh for a reason. That would be a no. :)
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 61,713
And1: 69,197
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#153 » by clyde21 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:07 am

ChrisPozz wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
ChrisPozz wrote:
I don't have strong feelings for or against Saban actually until you start to present me with the possibilities of the structure around him.

Either way, Saban would fall in the "can't get, won't happen, move on" bucket when it comes to the 49ers IMO. Could they offer him total control of the roster/personnel department and give him Belichick/Jo. Harbaugh/Payton/Reid money ($7.5M) to get it to happen? Sure, that's probably what they'd have to do. But I don't think they'd do that for Saban.


Any chance we can get Harbaugh back? :wink:


I put Jo. Harbaugh for a reason. That would be a no. :)


I got one for ya - who'd you rather have, Harbaugh back or Meyer? I think I know your answer to this, though.
thesack12
RealGM
Posts: 17,907
And1: 2,226
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#154 » by thesack12 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:09 am

Ray_Dogg wrote:Make everyone healthy on SD and they are attractive.


They have some pieces notably Bosa.

I will say that other than Keenan Allen a lot of their key offensive players are aging. I personally am not too high on Melvin Gordon.
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 61,713
And1: 69,197
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#155 » by clyde21 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:09 am

I will say this - I still feel like David Shaw can be really good in the NFL. I don't know what type of staff he'd be able to put together, but I love his overarching philosophy and is an outstanding teacher and communicator. Last I heard though he doesn't want to leave Stanford so it'll all be a moot point anyways, but he's a guy I'd be looking at too if I was in charge.
thesack12
RealGM
Posts: 17,907
And1: 2,226
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#156 » by thesack12 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:11 am

49er4life1979 wrote:49ers have reached out to Josh McDaniels. Reportedly Jed has always liked him. But I thought they were hiring the GM first?


Perhaps Jed's pitch involves giving Josh most the power.
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 61,713
And1: 69,197
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#157 » by clyde21 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:12 am

thesack12 wrote:
49er4life1979 wrote:49ers have reached out to Josh McDaniels. Reportedly Jed has always liked him. But I thought they were hiring the GM first?


Perhaps Jed's pitch involves giving Josh most the power.


Yup, let's give the guy who drafted Tim Tebow in the first round the final say on personnel. :lol:
thesack12
RealGM
Posts: 17,907
And1: 2,226
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#158 » by thesack12 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:18 am

clyde21 wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
49er4life1979 wrote:49ers have reached out to Josh McDaniels. Reportedly Jed has always liked him. But I thought they were hiring the GM first?


Perhaps Jed's pitch involves giving Josh most the power.


Yup, let's give the guy who drafted Tim Tebow in the first round the final say on personnel. :lol:


Ha, yeah,

While I wouldn't want him to have roster control and power to make all personnel decisions, getting McD to coach is probably pretty close to best case scenario for the current 49ers situation.
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 61,713
And1: 69,197
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#159 » by clyde21 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:28 am

thesack12 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Perhaps Jed's pitch involves giving Josh most the power.


Yup, let's give the guy who drafted Tim Tebow in the first round the final say on personnel. :lol:


Ha, yeah,

While I wouldn't want him to have roster control and power to make all personnel decisions, getting McD to coach is probably pretty close to best case scenario for the current 49ers situation.


Impossible to deny that McDaniels is a great offensive mind, but I question his personality, his ability to communicate w/ his coaching staff and player on a consistent level as well as his adaptability as a head guy.

I think we can do worse, but IF we're going to bring in McDaniels then I don't want him anywhere near the FO.
ChrisPozz
RealGM
Posts: 16,127
And1: 450
Joined: Sep 07, 2014
 

Re: OFFICIAL - Baalke and Kelly have been fired. 

Post#160 » by ChrisPozz » Mon Jan 2, 2017 4:28 am

clyde21 wrote:
ChrisPozz wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Any chance we can get Harbaugh back? :wink:


I put Jo. Harbaugh for a reason. That would be a no. :)


I got one for ya - who'd you rather have, Harbaugh back or Meyer? I think I know your answer to this, though.


Fun question. Yeah. You probably do. If we're talking about for the 49ers, I want to see what Meyer can do if given a reasonably fair shot. I feel like I've seen Jim Harbaugh's ceiling given his current make up and preferred ways for player development/management.

Under what circumstances would I, if I'm now being a neutral football fan, have an interest in seeing what Jim Harbaugh could do with or for a team? I've always wondered if Jerry Jones would ever come calling if he got desperate enough for somebody with name recognition who has had success elsewhere. I think the chances of that would be low of course because I think Harbaugh is always going to want too much power for Jerry's liking, but it's been a thought I've had as a what if re-entry spot if those two could make it work. With the way that team is built, I have wondered if he could make THAT situation work better for him compared to the situation he had with the 49ers.

As a 49ers fan, I obviously would be rooting against it to succeed because I can't root for the Cowboys but if I was looking at it for a coaching historical aspect, I'd be curious to see what his 2nd stint would look like if you gave him their current situation.

Return to San Francisco 49ers