2023 Offseason

[thesack12]

Anyone else nervous how the defense will look this year with Wilks as the DC? Hoping not much changes but his attitude seems so much different than Salah & Ryans

I'm not sure about his attitude, but Wilks does seem like one of those "old school" minded coaches that has conservative based tendencies. That's not to say that Saleh and Ryans have super aggressive styles, but I also wouldn't call them old school thinkers either. I think both those guys are fairly imaginative and innovative with their approaches to coaching.

I will also miss the excitability and enthusiasm that both Saleh and Ryans bring to the sidelines when they are calling games. Wilks seems to be a more low key and less outwardly animated with his emotions.

Of course none of this means that Wilks can't or won't be a good coach for the 9ers, its just probably going to look a bit different. Wilks seems to be a very good leader in terms of being able to get the respect of his players and being a very good behind the curtain/locker room presence. Carolina also really responded when he replaced Rhule last season, and that team didn't have a whole lot of talent. So we know he has the ability to coach up his players.

One thing that does somewhat concern me a bit, is Wilks hasn't really overlapped with Kyle at all in the past. Granted their expertise's are on opposite sides of the ball, so it shouldn't be a huge deal. Still team culture and style wise, there will probably be an adjustment period for the defense.

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds. One thing is for sure though, talking about something that isn't the QB position is kind of refreshing.

[CrimsonCrew]

Having the DC in the booth will be a bit of a change, but Fangio was a booth guy, and he's about as good as there is in the business. We have plenty of high energy position coaches to keep the guys fired up, not to mention the players themselves tend that way.

[Jikkle]

One thing that does somewhat concern me a bit, is Wilks hasn't really overlapped with Kyle at all in the past. Granted their expertise's are on opposite sides of the ball, so it shouldn't be a huge deal. Still team culture and style wise, there will probably be an adjustment period for the defense.

It's a concern but I do think it could be a good thing as well because I just think the defense kinda needed a bit of a fresh perspective.

I know that's weird to say given how effective the defense has been over the years but we also kept seeing the same cracks in the defense over the years through Saleh and then Ryans. Like how many times did we have to watch something like 3rd and 5 and guys giving 5 yard cushions to give up easy 1st downs. Or how we would struggle against running QBs. Or how many passing related penalties was the team going to give up?

I like the fact Wilks has a secondary background because the defense has always felt like it's had sloppy secondary play under the Shanahan era and hopefully he can provide some discipline to that area of the defense.

[CrimsonCrew]

In today's NFL, it's really hard to shut down an offense, especially when the QB is a threat with his legs. Were there times when things could have gone better for the D last year? Sure. But it's really hard to complain about the results, especially late in the year. With the exception of the Raiders game, which was something of a bizarre blip, the D played really, really well during our late-season winning streak.

In 13 games including the playoffs, they held teams to 20 or fewer points 10 times. The Seahawks scored 23 in the playoffs, but that includes a meaningless garbage-time TD when our backups were in. They held teams to 14 points or fewer seven times. That's pretty darn remarkable.

They were even really good against the Eagles, holding them within two scores until the very end of the third quarter despite seven points coming as the result of a blown incomplete pass call on 4th down and the offense coughing up the ball deep in our territory to end the half. For that matter, the Eagles had a convert another 4th down from their own 34 to get the second TD, though that was on a gimme QB sneak. And their third TD came because of Josh Johnson's awful fumble and worse attempt at recovery. Hurts did nothing to them on the ground, which was a huge concern of mine entering the game. Granted it was clear early on that the Eagles didn't have to do much offensively to win, and they could afford to run the ball 44 times, even at 3.4 YPC because we couldn't catch them.

I'm curious to see what Wilks does, but even though I think this D might just be more talented than last year's, it would be a tall order to put together a better season.

[arich35]

Anyone else nervous how the defense will look this year with Wilks as the DC? Hoping not much changes but his attitude seems so much different than Salah & Ryans

I'm not sure about his attitude, but Wilks does seem like one of those "old school" minded coaches that has conservative based tendencies. That's not to say that Saleh and Ryans have super aggressive styles, but I also wouldn't call them old school thinkers either. I think both those guys are fairly imaginative and innovative with their approaches to coaching.

I will also miss the excitability and enthusiasm that both Saleh and Ryans bring to the sidelines when they are calling games. Wilks seems to be a more low key and less outwardly animated with his emotions.

Of course none of this means that Wilks can't or won't be a good coach for the 9ers, its just probably going to look a bit different. Wilks seems to be a very good leader in terms of being able to get the respect of his players and being a very good behind the curtain/locker room presence. Carolina also really responded when he replaced Rhule last season, and that team didn't have a whole lot of talent. So we know he has the ability to coach up his players.

One thing that does somewhat concern me a bit, is Wilks hasn't really overlapped with Kyle at all in the past. Granted their expertise's are on opposite sides of the ball, so it shouldn't be a huge deal. Still team culture and style wise, there will probably be an adjustment period for the defense.

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds. One thing is for sure though, talking about something that isn't the QB position is kind of refreshing.

This is mainly what I was referencing. I feel like the defense really fed off the energy of Salah and Ryans on the sideline, it will be an interesting difference to watch. I think Warner, Greenlaw, and Huf will still be able to bring a lot of energy on the field though.

[CrimsonCrew]

PFF's top-50 players right now:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff50-ranking-50-best-players-2023

Niners have an unbelievable SIX players - Trent, Bosa, Warner, Kittle, McCaffrey, and Deebo. As far as I can tell, the Chiefs are second on the list with four, though they have #1 and three in the top-10. Eagles have three.

[wco81]

Why is it taking so long to get the Bosa extension done?

We're 18 days from the opener.

Are they not going to get him in camp and have him be ready for the first game?

They're obviously going to extend him, just a matter of how much. Are they waiting to see what Chris Jones or some other DL star is going to get before finalizing the numbers?

Are they trying to squeeze out a few million or give the team exits from his deal?

Maybe Bosa doesn't want to deal with Paarag or something?

[Pattersonca65]

Why is it taking so long to get the Bosa extension done?

We're 18 days from the opener.

Are they not going to get him in camp and have him be ready for the first game?

They're obviously going to extend him, just a matter of how much. Are they waiting to see what Chris Jones or some other DL star is going to get before finalizing the numbers?

Are they trying to squeeze out a few million or give the team exits from his deal?

Maybe Bosa doesn't want to deal with Paarag or something?

I think it is a combination of factors. But this is not your typical contract extension. Bosa is looking to be paid as one of top non-QBs in the league. Aaron Donald type money. It isn't like the 49ers are awash in salary cap space so they want to get the best possible deal they can so they can keep as many players as possible over the next several years. Bosa might also want to see what the free agent DEs get. Plus the 49ers are waving his fines so there is less pressure on Bosa to get it done. In the end I think it gets done before the season gets started but we'll see

[CrimsonCrew]

Heard on the radio that Bosa was at his agent's office in NY today, so maybe that's a good sign. I've got to think they'll get it done, but whenever you're resetting the market, it gets complicated. Assuming he's going to top Aaron Donald for the highest annual salary on defense, you're looking at $33 million a year. That's $5 million a year above TJ Watt, the next-highest DE, and $10 million a year above the 4th guy on the list. But he's going to get it, so then the question is the number of years and the structure. Probably five years, but Watt's is only four.

[wco81]

49ers think they're able to win the SB -- I'm not so sure -- so they will pay him.

But honestly, it might be better to trade him if they can get a couple of FRPs, with at least one likely to be a top 5 pick.

[Harry Palmer]

Getting increasingly nervous about our lack of depth on both lines. Hoping they restock the shelves as the season progresses, but it feels like one of those years where and injury to one or two guys makes the whole thing fall apart. Still can’t get over drafting like OL wasn’t a need. Any word on what happened with Banks today?

Also I know he’s about as plug & play as it gets, but ideally you’d want your DC and best defensive player to have at least shaken hands before the season starts.

[Pattersonca65]

Getting increasingly nervous about our lack of depth on both lines. Hoping they restock the shelves as the season progresses, but it feels like one of those years where and injury to one or two guys makes the whole thing fall apart. Still can’t get over drafting like OL wasn’t a need. Any word on what happened with Banks today?

Also I know he’s about as plug & play as it gets, but ideally you’d want your DC and best defensive player to have at least shaken hands before the season starts.

There is a shortage of quality of offensive lineman in the NFL. I was hoping the 49ers puta bit more draft capital into getting quality but they didn't. At this point it is what it is. The Free Agency route is expensive. Look at how much McGlinch was paid and he is not an elite olineman. If you are down to picking unsigned guys or waiver wire players at this point they are not going to be good.

[CrimsonCrew]

The total failure to address OT in the draft was a huge head-scratcher for me. It was a pretty deep tackle draft, and there were a lot of interesting names in the third round - when we had three picks - that I've gone over at some length in the draft thread. Baldy was actually pretty complimentary of Matt Pryor, but he was getting eaten alive in the first game. Admittedly didn't notice as much in the second. Moore seems to have been struggling in the preseason. Watson may be an intriguing project, but I don't think he's ready yet.

Despite the marked struggles so far in the preseason, I still think we have some interesting depth pieces inside. But as Patterson said, basically every team in the league is hurting for OL depth, so there just aren't easy fixes.

The DL depth seems okay. Armstead and Hargrave are about as good as it gets. Kinlaw has been better this year and I thought wasn't as bad against the run as some seemed to think after the first game. Kalia Davis has been turning some of the media's heads lately, and he's looking like a solid piece in the run game if he can stay healthy. Givens has looked bad, but you're hoping he's not in a role where he has to take on double-teams in the run game. That's not where he excels.

Edge is a bigger concern. We took a hit losing solid if unspectacular guys in Ebukam and Omenihu. The latter is serving a six-game suspension anyway, so he wouldn't have been a ton of help early. I think Ferrell can came close to what Ebukam contributed, but we're looking for Austin Bryant or Stephen Beal to generate some pass rush on the outside. Jackson, too, of course. He's the real wild card in all of this.

[Pattersonca65]

The total failure to address OT in the draft was a huge head-scratcher for me. It was a pretty deep tackle draft, and there were a lot of interesting names in the third round - when we had three picks - that I've gone over at some length in the draft thread. Baldy was actually pretty complimentary of Matt Pryor, but he was getting eaten alive in the first game. Admittedly didn't notice as much in the second. Moore seems to have been struggling in the preseason. Watson may be an intriguing project, but I don't think he's ready yet.

Despite the marked struggles so far in the preseason, I still think we have some interesting depth pieces inside. But as Patterson said, basically every team in the league is hurting for OL depth, so there just aren't easy fixes.

The DL depth seems okay. Armstead and Hargrave are about as good as it gets. Kinlaw has been better this year and I thought wasn't as bad against the run as some seemed to think after the first game. Kalia Davis has been turning some of the media's heads lately, and he's looking like a solid piece in the run game if he can stay healthy. Givens has looked bad, but you're hoping he's not in a role where he has to take on double-teams in the run game. That's not where he excels.

Edge is a bigger concern. We took a hit losing solid if unspectacular guys in Ebukam and Omenihu. The latter is serving a six-game suspension anyway, so he wouldn't have been a ton of help early. I think Ferrell can came close to what Ebukam contributed, but we're looking for Austin Bryant or Stephen Beal to generate some pass rush on the outside. Jackson, too, of course. He's the real wild card in all of this.

When hasn't Moore struggled? Seems like there was some promise early on but since then he seems to struggle with pass blocking.

[CrimsonCrew]

The total failure to address OT in the draft was a huge head-scratcher for me. It was a pretty deep tackle draft, and there were a lot of interesting names in the third round - when we had three picks - that I've gone over at some length in the draft thread. Baldy was actually pretty complimentary of Matt Pryor, but he was getting eaten alive in the first game. Admittedly didn't notice as much in the second. Moore seems to have been struggling in the preseason. Watson may be an intriguing project, but I don't think he's ready yet.

Despite the marked struggles so far in the preseason, I still think we have some interesting depth pieces inside. But as Patterson said, basically every team in the league is hurting for OL depth, so there just aren't easy fixes.

The DL depth seems okay. Armstead and Hargrave are about as good as it gets. Kinlaw has been better this year and I thought wasn't as bad against the run as some seemed to think after the first game. Kalia Davis has been turning some of the media's heads lately, and he's looking like a solid piece in the run game if he can stay healthy. Givens has looked bad, but you're hoping he's not in a role where he has to take on double-teams in the run game. That's not where he excels.

Edge is a bigger concern. We took a hit losing solid if unspectacular guys in Ebukam and Omenihu. The latter is serving a six-game suspension anyway, so he wouldn't have been a ton of help early. I think Ferrell can came close to what Ebukam contributed, but we're looking for Austin Bryant or Stephen Beal to generate some pass rush on the outside. Jackson, too, of course. He's the real wild card in all of this.

When hasn't Moore struggled? Seems like there was some promise early on but since then he seems to struggle with pass blocking.

He actually played pretty well in two games when Trent got hurt and then McKivitz got hurt filling in for him. 66.3 PFF grade in limited snaps. Not sure how he graded in the specific games in which he was the starter.

[Jikkle]

The total failure to address OT in the draft was a huge head-scratcher for me. It was a pretty deep tackle draft, and there were a lot of interesting names in the third round - when we had three picks - that I've gone over at some length in the draft thread. Baldy was actually pretty complimentary of Matt Pryor, but he was getting eaten alive in the first game. Admittedly didn't notice as much in the second. Moore seems to have been struggling in the preseason. Watson may be an intriguing project, but I don't think he's ready yet.

Despite the marked struggles so far in the preseason, I still think we have some interesting depth pieces inside. But as Patterson said, basically every team in the league is hurting for OL depth, so there just aren't easy fixes.

The DL depth seems okay. Armstead and Hargrave are about as good as it gets. Kinlaw has been better this year and I thought wasn't as bad against the run as some seemed to think after the first game. Kalia Davis has been turning some of the media's heads lately, and he's looking like a solid piece in the run game if he can stay healthy. Givens has looked bad, but you're hoping he's not in a role where he has to take on double-teams in the run game. That's not where he excels.

Edge is a bigger concern. We took a hit losing solid if unspectacular guys in Ebukam and Omenihu. The latter is serving a six-game suspension anyway, so he wouldn't have been a ton of help early. I think Ferrell can came close to what Ebukam contributed, but we're looking for Austin Bryant or Stephen Beal to generate some pass rush on the outside. Jackson, too, of course. He's the real wild card in all of this.

It's pretty obvious at this point LT is the only position they would put any serious investment in.

Every team has their "coach them up" position group and it's clear OL is that for Shanahan. In a way I sorta understand because defensive linemen have far and away outpaced offensive linemen and you can name over a dozen stud defensive linemen where you'd probably struggle to do the same with offensive linemen. So I guess it's one of those what's the point in investing a lot of resources in the offensive line if they are still going to get the crap kicked out of them by the defensive line.

I think the issue with Shanahan is how much stock he puts in the running game vs the passing game. Yes running is the team's bread and butter but it comes IMO to much at the expense of the pass blocking. Let's face it they drafted McGlinchey because of his run blocking and Mckivtiz is there now because of his run blocking. It'd be nice to not have an RT that gets driven into the QB on critical 3rd down passing plays.

I'd like to see the team at least get the offensive linemen at Walmart or Target and not the dollar store.

[Harry Palmer]

Apparently one rumour making the rounds is Lance to the Vikings for a pass-rusher, Danielle Hunter is the name mentioned most…with picks going both ways. FWIW.

[thesack12]

Apparently one rumour making the rounds is Lance to the Vikings for a pass-rusher, Danielle Hunter is the name mentioned most…with picks going both ways. FWIW.

Hunter is a very good player. If that framework of a trade is actually on the table, the Vikings would be receiving the favorable side of the draft pick equation.

[Pattersonca65]

Apparently one rumour making the rounds is Lance to the Vikings for a pass-rusher, Danielle Hunter is the name mentioned most…with picks going both ways. FWIW.

What does that tell you about how the 49ers feel about Jackson?

[CrimsonCrew]

The total failure to address OT in the draft was a huge head-scratcher for me. It was a pretty deep tackle draft, and there were a lot of interesting names in the third round - when we had three picks - that I've gone over at some length in the draft thread. Baldy was actually pretty complimentary of Matt Pryor, but he was getting eaten alive in the first game. Admittedly didn't notice as much in the second. Moore seems to have been struggling in the preseason. Watson may be an intriguing project, but I don't think he's ready yet.

Despite the marked struggles so far in the preseason, I still think we have some interesting depth pieces inside. But as Patterson said, basically every team in the league is hurting for OL depth, so there just aren't easy fixes.

The DL depth seems okay. Armstead and Hargrave are about as good as it gets. Kinlaw has been better this year and I thought wasn't as bad against the run as some seemed to think after the first game. Kalia Davis has been turning some of the media's heads lately, and he's looking like a solid piece in the run game if he can stay healthy. Givens has looked bad, but you're hoping he's not in a role where he has to take on double-teams in the run game. That's not where he excels.

Edge is a bigger concern. We took a hit losing solid if unspectacular guys in Ebukam and Omenihu. The latter is serving a six-game suspension anyway, so he wouldn't have been a ton of help early. I think Ferrell can came close to what Ebukam contributed, but we're looking for Austin Bryant or Stephen Beal to generate some pass rush on the outside. Jackson, too, of course. He's the real wild card in all of this.

It's pretty obvious at this point LT is the only position they would put any serious investment in.

Every team has their "coach them up" position group and it's clear OL is that for Shanahan. In a way I sorta understand because defensive linemen have far and away outpaced offensive linemen and you can name over a dozen stud defensive linemen where you'd probably struggle to do the same with offensive linemen. So I guess it's one of those what's the point in investing a lot of resources in the offensive line if they are still going to get the crap kicked out of them by the defensive line.

I think the issue with Shanahan is how much stock he puts in the running game vs the passing game. Yes running is the team's bread and butter but it comes IMO to much at the expense of the pass blocking. Let's face it they drafted McGlinchey because of his run blocking and Mckivtiz is there now because of his run blocking. It'd be nice to not have an RT that gets driven into the QB on critical 3rd down passing plays.

I'd like to see the team at least get the offensive linemen at Walmart or Target and not the dollar store.

There's a lot to be said for having basically league average players at every OL spot. PFF talks a lot about how you're better off having that than having three elite players and two bad ones, because defenses will find a way to exploit the bad ones. So you pay the truly elite guys like Trent, but otherwise, you try to find solid players who don't cost a whole lot. The problem is, you need to have at least five of those solid players, and solid players backing them up. And if you don't spend resources on a position, you aren't likely to get that.