Training Camp Thread

[arich35]

Hyder and Bryant were cut but will be resigned tomorrow to be part of the 53.
TY McGill was cut which I am a little surprised by

McCray-Ball and Curtis Robinson were cut

Ilm Manning was cut, hopefully he can stay on the PS. D'Shawn Jamison and Jack Colleto also waived, would be interested to see what happens with them

[Samurai]

Really surprised that Nick Zakelj was kept on the 53 man roster. He must have looked like a Pro Bowl candidate in practice because he only laid eggs in pre-season games. Guess that's more evidence that Shanahan doesn't weigh pre-season games as importantly as how they look in practice. Just hope that he doesn't need to get into any RS games unless its a blow-out.

[CrimsonCrew]

Writing was kind of on the wall with Brandon Allen, but I think there's a strong argument to only keep two QBs to start the season and then add a third for the playoffs.

No surprises at RB. I hope Coletto makes it through waivers, but he was a coveted UDFA, so another team might claim him.

No surprises at WR, though it will be interesting to see if both Ray Ray and Danny Gray go to IR. I would imagine we'll bring back Snead or Conley if he's healthy, or promote from the PS for the early season games.

No surprise to see Latu go to IR. Hopefully he can take the year to develop. He needs it. Glad we kept Willis, but would have liked to see Fumagalli make it. I felt like he played well, and much as I root for Dwelley, he just doesn't do anything all that well. I think Fumagalli is a better blocker, and he looked pretty good when he got snaps at FB.

Pretty surprised by Nick Zackelj making it. He was garbage all preseason. Multiple penalties, which was amazing, because he allowed a ton of pressure despite the holding. The FO and Foerster still seem to love him, though. No other real surprises along the OL, but I'm not nearly as confident about our young talent as I was a few weeks ago. Kind of thought Manning and/or Ismael had a shot at the roster.

DL interesting to see Davis make it, but I'm glad he did. Very short camp, but some reported him as the stoutest DT against the run. He's got some upside. Word above about Hyder and Bryant makes sense.

I get it, but somewhat sorry to see Flannigan-Fowles over McCrary-Ball. DFF is a great STs player, but makes a lot of mistakes when playing LB.

Isaiah Oliver makes the squad. Jury was out there following a lackluster (generously) preseason. But I believe it would cost money for us to cut him, and the FO was really high on him this offseason, so we'll hope he can get his **** together. Luter to PUP is odd. I didn't think he was eligible. But it's a great resolution to that situation. I was worried we might lose him. Glad to see we held on to young players in him and Beal. Guys like that are more likely to be picked up than older vets, even if the vets are better players today.

No surprises at Safety. I'm glad they haven't traded for a kicker. Hopefully they hold off on that position unless and until Moody can't play week one. Frustrating to see kickers getting traded. They possibly could have gotten something for Gonzalez.

[Samurai]

Writing was kind of on the wall with Brandon Allen, but I think there's a strong argument to only keep two QBs to start the season and then add a third for the playoffs.

I thought that under the new rules that teams can dress 3 QB's and the third one becomes an emergency player - doesn't count against the game day roster limit but can't enter the game unless the first 2 QB's get hurt. Does that rule only apply during the playoffs?

[CrimsonCrew]

Writing was kind of on the wall with Brandon Allen, but I think there's a strong argument to only keep two QBs to start the season and then add a third for the playoffs.

I thought that under the new rules that teams can dress 3 QB's and the third one becomes an emergency player - doesn't count against the game day roster limit but can't enter the game unless the first 2 QB's get hurt. Does that rule only apply during the playoffs?

No, it always applies. But the odds of losing two QBs in one game are so slim that it's probably not worth the roster spot until your down to elimination games.

[Harry Palmer]

Chatter Bosa signing, will play week 1. Hopefully true, had come to the worrying conclusion it was either in the next couple of days or disaster.

Edit: tracked source down to Jason Dumas of Bleacherreport, among other things. Not familiar with him, anyone know how credible?

[RIPskaterdude]

Jamison and Manning claimed

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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[CrimsonCrew]

Damn. That sucks. Would have kept Jamison over Oliver, probably, and certainly over a third QB. And probably Manning over Zakelj.

At least Colletto made it through. Hopefully he will replace Juice next year.

[Harry Palmer]

Jamison and Manning claimed

Read on Twitter

?t=YFrxR1Y7_HPj7o5Si6K0fg&s=19

Read on Twitter

?t=JZ1n74T-23QiHjRrB6XV3Q&s=19

Always assumed we’d lose whoever lost out on the db battle, except maybe Oliver but that would have been a slap in Wilkes’ face so not happening. Still sucks, though…and hoped Manning would hide in the grass and honestly liked him as a prospect better from what I saw than a few people we kept, but OLs are always premium and the least evaluatable…should be a word…from pre-season play.

[CrimsonCrew]

To return to the roster-building theme now that I'm on a computer, this year we really felt the salary cap effects on the roster construction. This season, the team appears to be acutely aware of the numbers crunch. I think that's one of if not the most compelling reason Trey Lance is no longer on this team, even though $6 million next year doesn't seem like a ton of money. It's also the most likely reason why we kept a guy like Oliver over Jamison.

It's also entirely possible that was the motivating factor in keeping Zakelj, which was the biggest question for me on this roster. There's a strong argument that Zakelj was our worst player, period, during the preseason. He was constantly overpowered, had more penalties than anyone else by far, and was generally ineffective. I get that he's apparently an awesome guy, but he's a fifth-year college player in his second NFL season, and Ilm Manning showed more upside than he did. He's 24 years old. What's the upside? At least Oliver is a guy who has had some success in the league. I have very little faith in Zakelj at this point.

I have been expressing some concern about the cap situation for a few years now. They were pretty profligate in their spending the first few years and burned right through what had been a nice cap buffer on guys like Pierre Garcon, Malcolm Smith, etc. Also some very solid moves in there, but plenty of head-scratchers as well. I was pretty shocked when they signed Javon Hargrave because I just didn't see how they could afford it. We already lost Buckner. We're almost certainly going to have to cut mainstays like Armstead and Juice last year, and eat some serious dead cap. Pretty frustrating. And that's before we have to think about signing a QB to a big contract in the next couple years.

[CrimsonCrew]

Looks like the Commanders cut Tariq Castro-Fields. Just curious as he was a guy I was somewhat sorry to see go last year.

[Samurai]

Losing Manning hurts but I expected him to get snatched if we released him. Would much rather have had Manning than Zakelj. Zakelj is elite at allowing pressure and committing holding penalties but it would be preferable to have linemen with a few additional core competencies than just those.

Also not surprised that Jamison was claimed. Clearly better than Oliver but after the Lance debacle I don't think anyone in the front office had a face big enough to hold the additional egg after giving him that contract.

[CrimsonCrew]

Practice squad out.

https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2023/08/30/49ers-announce-practice-squad-signings/?utm_source=49ersWebZone&utm_medium=dt&utm_campaign=affref

Jason Poe and Joey Fisher both gone. I posted a few weeks ago about how I liked the interior OL depth of Zakelj, Poe, Fisher, and Manning, who are all late-round or undrafted fliers, but have intriguing athleticism. Of them all, only Zakelj remains, and I would argue he was the worst of the bunch, though I can't recall actually being cognizant of any Joey Fisher snaps.

[Samurai]

Practice squad out.

https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2023/08/30/49ers-announce-practice-squad-signings/?utm_source=49ersWebZone&utm_medium=dt&utm_campaign=affref

Jason Poe and Joey Fisher both gone. I posted a few weeks ago about how I liked the interior OL depth of Zakelj, Poe, Fisher, and Manning, who are all late-round or undrafted fliers, but have intriguing athleticism. Of them all, only Zakelj remains, and I would argue he was the worst of the bunch, though I can't recall actually being cognizant of any Joey Fisher snaps.

Don't know anything about Fisher, but I liked both Poe and Manning more than Zakelj. Manning looked very good in pre-season so not surprised that another team would find him attractive. And despite Poe's physical shortcomings, his athleticism and versatility would be intriguing for a team wanting a back-up guard who could also play fullback in goal-line situations. Heck, since we don't have a Bronko Nagurski type of short yardage back, I'd rather see our RB's sticking to Poe's backside as a lead blocker on the goal line instead of trying to muscle it in themselves. Now we'll never know and we are stuck with Zakelj; wasted opportunity.

[Harry Palmer]

Maybe they know something on Zakelj we don’t, or Moore, hell even Pryor because they definitely seem to be seeing the opposite of what I was seeing. This is the worst cut down I can remember. Not so much for just losing guys, but for our choices. Apparently the word is they were surprised to lose Manning. I…I’d like to know who is doing their league research because I don’t see how they could have considered that remotely safe. Imo the position I’ve most worried about since the draft was OL, and the lone bright spot was the play/potential of some of the younger guys, and it’s like they had a list and made sure each source of a little hope was gone.

[CrimsonCrew]

Maybe they know something on Zakelj we don’t, or Moore, hell even Pryor because they definitely seem to be seeing the opposite of what I was seeing. This is the worst cut down I can remember. Not so much for just losing guys, but for our choices. Apparently the word is they were surprised to lose Manning. I…I’d like to know who is doing their league research because I don’t see how they could have considered that remotely safe. Imo the position I’ve most worried about since the draft was OL, and the lone bright spot was the play/potential of some of the younger guys, and it’s like they had a list and made sure each source of a little hope was gone.

Yeah, seems like Manning was pretty likely to get snagged. He was a UDFA, and not a terribly coveted one, but he played well in the preseason at OT, and you've got to think he'd do as well or better at OG given his poor length, though some guys (cough, Zakelj, cough) struggle with the physicality when they move inside.

As said, I really question some of the decisions this year. We're talking back of the roster guys, so not super likely to really bite us in the ass, but given all the draft picks we've given up in recent history, we need every shot we've got. I've laid out my thoughts on Zakelj. Allen as a third QB too, to some extent. Only 13 teams kept three QBs, and it's pretty unlikely a team would have jumped at him. I didn't think they needed to keep both Woerner and Dwelley. Pretty sure Dwelley started on the PS last year and no one grabbed him. Obviously holding onto Oliver over Jamison, primarily due to the contract, seemingly, hurts.

That said, the bright side is that they held onto Colletto, Knight, Conley is back on the PS and likely to contribute early, they kept Luter (I didn't realize he was PUP eligible), Marlon Davidson apparently had a nice preseason and is back. Four WRs on the PS seems a bit much, but we stand to lose our second, third, and maybe fourth guys at that position next offseason, so I can understand it. Would still like to see an interior OL piece on the squad. That may be coming. Oh, I guess they kept Luciano. That doesn't move the needle much for me. Would have preferred one of the other guys.

[CrimsonCrew]

And Ilm Manning was one of the first five players claimed (all three Niners went to the first two teams), so if they truly didn't think they'd lose him, they aren't very good at this....

Actually, no, I'm looking at an alphabetical list.

[Pattersonca65]

This is interesting. Not sure what to say yet.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2023/8/31/23850364/john-lynch-adam-peters-top-evaluators-49ers

[Harry Palmer]

This is interesting. Not sure what to say yet.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2023/8/31/23850364/john-lynch-adam-peters-top-evaluators-49ers

There was a time when Baalke couldn’t miss and would lead these kinds of surveys pretty routinely. Then suddenly he completely lost the knack and never got it back. Sometimes it’s guys behind the scenes they’re leaning on, which IS a great skill as a GM, but obviously leaves you vulnerable to change. Sometimes it’s luck. I think with Baalke the better the team got the more he stopped listening to other voices, but that’s just my impression. Anyways, FWIW I don’t think Lynch is anywhere near the talent evaluator Baalke was, but OTOH I don’t see him as a guy whose ego will take over.

[CrimsonCrew]

This is interesting. Not sure what to say yet.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2023/8/31/23850364/john-lynch-adam-peters-top-evaluators-49ers

First and foremost, it must be said that most people - even die hard football fans - only follow one team closely, so they have little context for what actually constitutes sustained success. They look at all these draft picks and consider how many of them have failed, and conclude that their team sucks at drafting. The reality is that even first-round picks only hit about 50% of the time. This past year, only 12 of 32 first-round picks from 2021 had their fifth-year options picked up. Jordan Love was extended for less. The odds of players in the later rounds panning out get increasingly smaller, of course, with almost no late-round players making any sort of an impact in the league.

The Niners have been a pretty weird team. They have struggled with their early picks, seemingly especially in the first round. But they are incredible in the later rounds. George Kittle (5th), Trent Taylor (5), DJ Jones (6), Fred Warner (3), DJ Reed (5), Richie James (7), Dre Greenlaw (5), Colton McKivitz (5), Jauan Jennings (7), Deommodore Lenoir (5), Talanoa Hufanga (5), Elijah Mitchell (6), Brock Purdy (7). That is a pretty astounding number of hits in the later rounds, even if not all of those guys made a big impact for the Niners. Three all-pro players, another pro bowler, and several starters or key role players for an elite team. That's some kind of feat.

I would argue that the Niners are as good as - and probably better than - any other team in the league at identifying fits for their scheme and bringing these guys in to fill a specific role they can excel at. That's where this FO is special. Now, it's kind of been my view, given the perverse dichotomy between their early picks and their late picks, that Lynch and Shanahan are making the calls through the early rounds, but the further the draft goes, the less familiar they are with the players and the more they lean on Peters, the area scouts, and possibly position coaches. And I view that as a less than spectacular sign that the two chief decision-makers seem to struggle. But so it goes.

I will say that what has frustrated me is that a lot of people on this board have called out their mistakes at the time and landed on better options. I hated the Kinlaw pick and was screaming at them to take Wirfs instead of trading back (of course, then we got Big Trent, so I guess it kind of worked out; Kinlaw still clearly the wrong choice). But so it goes. Overall, it's hard to argue with the product they have put on the field over the last several years.