Training Camp Thread

[arich35]

Are we cool with a thread for training camp/pre-season?

Deebo slimmed down a lot and is in much better shape, hopefully that doesn't hurt his durability getting beat up on his runs.

Purdy cleared but not throwing three days in a row so sat out today, Lance got the majority of the 1st team reps

Is anyone just terrified of training camp? Every day I expect to hear about someone getting hurt.

[Jikkle]

TC has been and always will be nerve-racking because you're just waiting for that news of a torn ACL and done for the season for a key player that could derail the season.

Reports and talk is Lance looks much better with his mechanics but still in the awkward spot of needing reps but not going to get reps because Purdy will be the de facto starter. Only way that changes is Purdy gets hurt or Lance is just so undeniably better than Purdy you.

The right side of the line struggled in the running game but to be fair there are no pads and I think no pads favor the defensive lineman over the offensive lineman. In fact from my own experience playing offensive line in high school almost everything in practices favors the defensive line over the offensive line except for 11 on 11 when it's a game like scenario. That's why I don't put a ton of stock in the results of 1v1 drills because of they do favor the defense and not the offense.

Other news would be Bosa's contract extension but I have a tough time seeing it being a prolonged holdout. I'd have to imagine they are haggling over the finer details and 9ers are trying to save every dime they can but everyone knows they have to make him highest paid defender of all time.

[CrimsonCrew]

A single injury and an off day for big Trent, and suddenly Leroy Watson is starting at LT. Tell me again about the team not having much need for that position when they took a kicker and a project TE in the third....

[Pattersonca65]

A single injury and an off day for big Trent, and suddenly Leroy Watson is starting at LT. Tell me again about the team not having much need for that position when they took a kicker and a project TE in the third....

I just listened to Lombardi's video. He said alot of the 1s did not practice today. Aaron Banks didn't play either. Brock basically played with backups on the line according to Lombardi

[CrimsonCrew]

Banks was concussed. Center and right side intact.

[Samurai]

A single injury and an off day for big Trent, and suddenly Leroy Watson is starting at LT. Tell me again about the team not having much need for that position when they took a kicker and a project TE in the third....

Sounds like our kicker is impressing coaches so far. Despite being in a competition with Gonzalez, coaches say Moody has been very poised thus far - not always a given with rookies. And he made a 60-yarder at the end of Tuesday's practice. Hopefully he can translate that leg strength to kickoff touchbacks this season.

As far as Latu....yeah I don't have any response to that one. No guarantees he can even beat out Braydon Willis who was taken in the 7th round. I know Lynch said that they didn't have any offensive linemen on their 3rd round board that they felt confident could legitimately compete with McKivitz, Burford, etc. but I don't know if that's legit or just trying to save face for not doing what the fans wanted. And I'm secretly holding out hope that Jason Poe makes the team and becomes a fan favorite and shows that there is little drop-off from Burford/Banks to Poe.

But if big Trent gets hurt, that one injury could derail this team more than any other single player (outside of possibly Bosa).

[CrimsonCrew]

A single injury and an off day for big Trent, and suddenly Leroy Watson is starting at LT. Tell me again about the team not having much need for that position when they took a kicker and a project TE in the third....

Sounds like our kicker is impressing coaches so far. Despite being in a competition with Gonzalez, coaches say Moody has been very poised thus far - not always a given with rookies. And he made a 60-yarder at the end of Tuesday's practice. Hopefully he can translate that leg strength to kickoff touchbacks this season.

As far as Latu....yeah I don't have any response to that one. No guarantees he can even beat out Braydon Willis who was taken in the 7th round. I know Lynch said that they didn't have any offensive linemen on their 3rd round board that they felt confident could legitimately compete with McKivitz, Burford, etc. but I don't know if that's legit or just trying to save face for not doing what the fans wanted. And I'm secretly holding out hope that Jason Poe makes the team and becomes a fan favorite and shows that there is little drop-off from Burford/Banks to Poe.

But if big Trent gets hurt, that one injury could derail this team more than any other single player (outside of possibly Bosa).

I was thinking about it yesterday, and I think the Latu pick is the less defensible of the two for a couple reasons. Apologies if I've said this before.

I hated the Moody pick with a passion, for reasons I'm on record about at length in other threads, but briefly, drafted kickers don't historically stick long-term with the team that drafted them (like one of the last 20+), and even good rookie kickers are basically league average. That said, I do think there was a pretty strong argument that Moody was the clear cut best kicker this year, and also potentially the best to come out in several years. So it's at least defensible to take him at the very end of the third.

Latu has some intriguing characteristics. Despite objectively being a below average athlete, he's pretty smooth in his routes, and you can see him developing fat aspect of his game over time. But he's a real project as a blocker and a receiver.

We have heard a lot about how he hasn't played tight end that long, and that is true in that he arrived at Bama as a DE, but he was a tight end for 5 years at one of the premier programs in college football, so it's also not like he is brand new to the position. He was a particularly poor blocker. In my view, he is two or three years out from being a serious contributor. I think the player was a real reach at that point.

Then consider the position. Tight end was perhaps historically deep this year, with legit NFL talent available into the late rounds (see: Brayden Willis). It was a position where we could have waited comma and either landed Latu a four round or two later, or could have gotten a comparable player. Instead, we responded to a run at the position by reaching for a project.

The front office's rationale for not taking an offensive tackle has never held much weight for me. First, why are we anointing McKivitz? I don't have a problem with him being the leader who that right tackle position, but he isn't exactly a proven commodity. Second, what's the problem with having more competition at a premium position? We're awfully thin at OT behind the starters, with literally just a late-round pick who was drafted with guard in mind, a vet who was pretty bad last year, and an undrafted TE convert. And sure, a rookie third rounder is unlikely to start, but Latu ain't starting anytime soon, either.

Anyway, hopefully Watson text advantage of the reps and show something at tackle. But when Ilm Manning is getting snaps at LT, even with the third unit, it's a clear indication we need more competition there.

Finally, I totally distinguished the tackle position from the interior. We have a lot of interesting OG prospects. Very little outside.

[Samurai]

I was thinking about it yesterday, and I think the Latu pick is the less defensible of the two for a couple reasons. Apologies if I've said this before.
[/quote]
OK, at least we agree on this.

As far as kickers, I really appreciated how dependable Robbie "Good as" Gould was. But his cap hit last season was over $5.5M while Moody will be less than $1M this season and we could use that money elsewhere.

I'm guessing that Latu playing other positions before settling on TE was probably the selling point for ShanaLynch. They clearly have a preference for guys with multiple skills (CMac, Deebo, Kittle, etc.). Given his versatility, he may have a bigger impact on the team playing special teams than TE. And even if he becomes a good special teams guy, 3rd round still seems like a reach to me. Obviously the front office weren't impressed by the OL prospects available then but hard to imagine that Latu can have a bigger impact for us than a Blake Freeland or Dawand Jones.

[Samurai]

Interesting to note that Jason Poe is getting some reps at center in camp. OL coach Chris Foerster noted that Poe could be the second strongest on the OL behind only Trent Williams and his 4.9 40 time likely makes him the fastest. His biggest drawback as a guard are his very short arms (31 inches), but that becomes less of an issue at center than it is at guard. Poe is naturally quiet and he will have to learn to become more vocal, and more fluent with the overall offense, since centers have to see, recognize, and yell out the line calls to the other linemen.

[CrimsonCrew]

Not Niners news, but Justin Houston signed with Carolina. Too bad. He was the edge guy I wanted the FO to target if they felt like they needed another guy. Melvin Ingram probably next guy on the list. Ideally our guys step up and we don't need another edge, but early reports aren't great for pass rush off Bosa's opposite side.

[CrimsonCrew]

Interesting to note that Jason Poe is getting some reps at center in camp. OL coach Chris Foerster noted that Poe could be the second strongest on the OL behind only Trent Williams and his 4.9 40 time likely makes him the fastest. His biggest drawback as a guard are his very short arms (31 inches), but that becomes less of an issue at center than it is at guard. Poe is naturally quiet and he will have to learn to become more vocal, and more fluent with the overall offense, since centers have to see, recognize, and yell out the line calls to the other linemen.

I'm all for Poe getting looks across the interior. The short arms are a concern, but a common one among our backup IOLs. Zakelj, Poe, and Fisher all come in under 32.5". I've got Poe at 32", which is in the ballpark with those others. And I think he's got the biggest hands by a fair margin.

[CrimsonCrew]

Feliciano also under 32.5".

[Jikkle]

I've made an effort not to follow training camp too closely because over the past couple years it just seems like issues get overblown and when the season starts they aren't that big of a deal. Last year reports were Banks was looking rough at Guard and when the season started he was arguably one of the better Guards in the league.

So I've learned the offense is never going to look great against the defense because the defense has more raw talent, seen this offense a ton, and a lot of the productivity on offense is due to scheme which simply doesn't happen much in practice.

I do think the scrimmages with other teams do give some valuable insight though on how the team is shaping up.

I will say I hate how the QB situation is being handled. Brock has earned the right to be the starter but Lance should be the backup, and Darnold should be 3rd with Allen only getting reps when the QBs need to rest their arms. Quit wasting reps on Allen and give the guy you traded all those draft picks a reasonable shot at least being the backup instead of playing this game with Darnold who's been around enough to know he's decent at best.

I'm convinced that Kyle knows what he's doing with everything offense except the QB position. The QB thrives not because of the QB but because of the system and it's not like Reid and Mahomes where Mahomes has grown with Reid and Reid has fostered that growth in his system but it feels like Shanahan has no interest in growing a QB in and around his system but just wants to plug one in their to execute it.

[CrimsonCrew]

So, after a couple weeks of training camp (which I have been following probably more obsessively than is healthy), and the release of a depth chart that splits the baby, my thoughts on the second QB situation:

First, as much as I wasn't such a big fan of the move, I can see why the team brought in Sam Darnold. He's physically talented, seems like he might fit our system better than other situations he's been in, and there's at least some reason to think he could be a lot better than the results on the field to date given what was surrounding him. Additionally, Purdy had a serious injury with an uncertain timeline and Lance had apparently really struggled in the preseason prior to not looking great in his (very) limited action in the 2022 season.

So there was at least some justification for bringing Darnold in given the uncertainty at the position. But where do/should things stand at this point? We have since learned that Trey Lance's broken finger really affected his mechanics during the 2022 offseason and season, hence his awful completion percentage in camp (granted he's never been an accurate passer). This year, that issue seems resolved, and his accuracy and the raw passing numbers have been comparable to Darnold's.

My view has always been that if these two were even in the same ballpark, then you simply have to go with Lance. You can make excuses - some valid - for Darnold's struggles, but at the end of the day, he's been really, really bad in live action. Lance has certainly had his share of struggles, but we just don't know what he brings to the table. So why would you even consider going with Darnold over him? Especially when he needs all the live game reps he can possibly get.

Reports out of the Raiders joint practices today are that Lance took the bulk of snaps behind Purdy. I'm guessing Darnold will take a lot more tomorrow, but he may not. Either way, I'd like to see Lance play at least a half in the preseason game, and I'd like to see him moved clearly into the #2 role. The guy simply needs time navigating live NFL action, and I find it increasingly galling that he's having to share reps with a guy who has a lengthy track record of awful play.

[thesack12]

Losing Ray Ray for what looks to be at least the first 4 games of the season, is gonna hurt. Unlike previous returners, Ray didn't leave much yardage out there on the field. He was a very much welcomed boost to the special teams. I'm honestly not sure who is gonna be used as the returner while he's out, but I can easily see Kyle telling whomever it is to be super conservative while rarely even attempting any returns and not to field any punts inside like the 15 yard line.

At the very least Ray Ray was a somewhat viable decoy as a WR. So his presence will probably be missed a bit there on offense as well.

Speaking of recievers, outside of Aiyuk getting some flowers super early in camp and some talk of Deebo being in great shape, from what I've heard its been pretty quiet among the WR group. It seems nobody has gained steam to becoming the 4th wideout. Of course after the top 3 and now McCloud being out, its not exactly an scintillating group.

A lot of chatter around camp that Moody is absolutely stroking it. Having a kicker with an apparently booming leg will be a big + for this team. We all know that the coverage units have the tendency to be crap, so consistently getting touchbacks will help that out. Also having a placekicker that can stretch the field will be nice, because it won't be an automatic punt if the 9ers are in that 45-55 yard FG range.

As for the other 3rd round rookie, well apparently Latu is struggling quite a bit with drops. Dude is gonna have to get that figured out

I'm trying not to attribute much attention into the QB situation at least not from a depth chart perspective. At least not until we get some pre-season tape. Although I will say that I completely agree that unless Darnold is just clearly head and shoulders above Trey, he certainly should be QB3.

Apparently Brock is struggling a bit with INT's. But that's not really all that surprising, as the early portion of camp usually favors the defense and Brock is trying to come back from serious injury. Jimmy had the tendency to throw a lot of picks in camp as well, so hopefully Brock will be fine when the bullets start to fly.

[CrimsonCrew]

Losing Ray Ray for what looks to be at least the first 4 games of the season, is gonna hurt. Unlike previous returners, Ray didn't leave much yardage out there on the field. He was a very much welcomed boost to the special teams. I'm honestly not sure who is gonna be used as the returner while he's out, but I can easily see Kyle telling whomever it is to be super conservative while rarely even attempting any returns and not to field any punts inside like the 15 yard line.

At the very least Ray Ray was a somewhat viable decoy as a WR. So his presence will probably be missed a bit there on offense as well.

Speaking of recievers, outside of Aiyuk getting some flowers super early in camp and some talk of Deebo being in great shape, from what I've heard its been pretty quiet among the WR group. It seems nobody has gained steam to becoming the 4th wideout. Of course after the top 3 and now McCloud being out, its not exactly an scintillating group.

A lot of chatter around camp that Moody is absolutely stroking it. Having a kicker with an apparently booming leg will be a big + for this team. We all know that the coverage units have the tendency to be crap, so consistently getting touchbacks will help that out. Also having a placekicker that can stretch the field will be nice, because it won't be an automatic punt if the 9ers are in that 45-55 yard FG range.

As for the other 3rd round rookie, well apparently Latu is struggling quite a bit with drops. Dude is gonna have to get that figured out

I'm trying not to attribute much attention into the QB situation at least not from a depth chart perspective. At least not until we get some pre-season tape. Although I will say that I completely agree that unless Darnold is just clearly head and shoulders above Trey, he certainly should be QB3.

Apparently Brock is struggling a bit with INT's. But that's not really all that surprising, as the early portion of camp usually favors the defense and Brock is trying to come back from serious injury. Jimmy had the tendency to throw a lot of picks in camp as well, so hopefully Brock will be fine when the bullets start to fly.

Losing Ray Ray does hurt the STs game, but there are some other interesting guys on the roster. Could be D'Shawn Jamison makes the team now, and he's played well on defense, too. Snead should be adequate, and he's been making some plays as a receiver. And Bell has more of a chance to show something, though he didn't return as much as I thought he did in college.

In terms of WR depth, Jennings has received a fair bit of buzz, and was active today against the Raiders. Our top three look set, complement one another well, and can rival most top-threes in the league. Behind that it's pretty unsettled with McCloud out, but Gray has been showing improvement lately from the sound of things. There's a decent chance that Snead makes the roster now, as said, as he's a potential return man who has also shown he can still get it done as a receiver (against backups, anyway). Chris Conley is still around as a unique physical talent, though his game doesn't really fit Purdy at QB all that well and he's probably more of a PS candidate as you'd prefer to keep the young guys on the active roster. Tay Martin has shown some signs of possibly developing into a Kendrick Bourne type of possession receiver. And Ronnie Bell has potential at returner and has made some nice plays, if a bit inconsistently, during camp. He and Lance showed a nice connection today, reportedly. Given we're talking about the fourth guy - and probably only that until McCloud returns - it's not a surprise that the picture is pretty muddied at this point. I don't know how many teams have a clear-cut #5 receiver before the first preseason game.

That said, there's a pretty good chance we lose both Aiyuk and Jennings next year, and McCloud is probably only a #4-type guy and will also be an older FA, so it would be really nice if one of the young guys steps up and shows something.

The Latu news has been...depressingly predictable. The scale of the drops issue is particularly glaring, and you hope he can improve that. He showed pretty soft hands in college, and it seems like more of a focus thing than anything. That said, it's something that showed at times in college, it has been extremely pronounced so far with him dropping as many or more balls as he has been catching, and Kyle certainly noticed it today. No guarantee he makes the roster despite the third-round pick, and if he does, I wouldn't expect him to be active any time soon. Thank God we took him instead of an OT to groom for the looming LT vacancy....

[CrimsonCrew]

So, after a couple weeks of training camp (which I have been following probably more obsessively than is healthy), and the release of a depth chart that splits the baby, my thoughts on the second QB situation:

First, as much as I wasn't such a big fan of the move, I can see why the team brought in Sam Darnold. He's physically talented, seems like he might fit our system better than other situations he's been in, and there's at least some reason to think he could be a lot better than the results on the field to date given what was surrounding him. Additionally, Purdy had a serious injury with an uncertain timeline and Lance had apparently really struggled in the preseason prior to not looking great in his (very) limited action in the 2022 season.

So there was at least some justification for bringing Darnold in given the uncertainty at the position. But where do/should things stand at this point? We have since learned that Trey Lance's broken finger really affected his mechanics during the 2022 offseason and season, hence his awful completion percentage in camp (granted he's never been an accurate passer). This year, that issue seems resolved, and his accuracy and the raw passing numbers have been comparable to Darnold's.

My view has always been that if these two were even in the same ballpark, then you simply have to go with Lance. You can make excuses - some valid - for Darnold's struggles, but at the end of the day, he's been really, really bad in live action. Lance has certainly had his share of struggles, but we just don't know what he brings to the table. So why would you even consider going with Darnold over him? Especially when he needs all the live game reps he can possibly get.

Reports out of the Raiders joint practices today are that Lance took the bulk of snaps behind Purdy. I'm guessing Darnold will take a lot more tomorrow, but he may not. Either way, I'd like to see Lance play at least a half in the preseason game, and I'd like to see him moved clearly into the #2 role. The guy simply needs time navigating live NFL action, and I find it increasingly galling that he's having to share reps with a guy who has a lengthy track record of awful play.

And sure enough, Darnold saw a bulk of the action behind Purdy today. The injuries have really mucked things up for Lance, but Shanahan has handled him incredibly poorly. Please give the dude a legit chance to show if he can play in the league before you make him beat out Sam freaking Darnold in an environment where the QB doesn't have to worry about pressure.

[CrimsonCrew]

Actually, looks like neither guy played much at all today, so my reaction might have been a little too knee-jerk.

[Samurai]

Actually, looks like neither guy played much at all today, so my reaction might have been a little too knee-jerk.

Sounds like Purdy took 39 snaps compared to a combined 9 for Lance and Darnold.

But Dave Lombardi's report from training camp doesn't sound too encouraging on Darnold. He stated "One thing is true, and it’s that Sam Darnold has gotten progressively worse as camp has gone along. His processing speed is molasses compared to Purdy and Trey Lance. If the first read is open, Darnold is fine. But if it’s not, problems ensue."

To be fair, Purdy hasn't looked all that sharp either (3 picks and 3 near-picks) but I'm a little less concerned about that given how much time he was off with the injury. If he still doesn't look sharp when we get within a week or so of the season opener, then I'll be worried.

[Samurai]

Losing Ray Ray for what looks to be at least the first 4 games of the season, is gonna hurt. Unlike previous returners, Ray didn't leave much yardage out there on the field. He was a very much welcomed boost to the special teams. I'm honestly not sure who is gonna be used as the returner while he's out, but I can easily see Kyle telling whomever it is to be super conservative while rarely even attempting any returns and not to field any punts inside like the 15 yard line.

If Ray Ray can be back by week 5, we just need someone who can catch punts without fumbling. Bell will certainly get some looks. Shanahan said that Bell looks comfortable back there and "is a natural catcher", so that's encouraging. But as a WR Shanahan said he has struggled early so he needs to show improvement there. Gray is also a possibility but Shanahan said Gray is more of a kick returner than a punt returner. The surprise name that Shanahan threw out there? “Kyle Juszczyk is one of the most comfortable natural punt return captures there is, but hopefully we have a few other guys before our fullback is out there. But yeah, you can do it too. So it’ll be an open competition and it’ll be fun to watch.”

And Snead and Jamison are also being worked out as returners as well. For me, anyone but Juice please. Can't take the chance on Juice or Aiyuk getting injured returning a punt or Deebo returning a kickoff.