Super Bowl 58: 49ers vs Chiefs

[thesack12]

First of all I didn't call for him to be fired.

Yes I admit it's a risk that the next HC might not even get the team to the SB.

But I'm reasonably sure that under Shanahan, the 49ers won't win a SB. So from that standpoint, better to reset sooner than later.

You can trash those other coaches all you want but they have a ring each, something Kyle will likely NEVER have. In the biggest games, they made the calls and managed the game and got results.

I really don't want to see him get another extension though. That would be doubling down on runner-up status.

Or at a minimum, hire a strong GM and let him run the drafts and free agency. In fact do it before the next draft if possible, because the odds are, the picks which the team makes in the first 3 rounds are unlikely to make a significant impact next season or the season after that.

Sure those other coaches got the results, but how much of those results were driven by them? For instance, Mike McCarthy is well known for his amazing game management skills, right?

Well he got it right once in the biggest game, which is more than you can say for Shanahan.

Yeah, McCarthy's being an offensive guy, managed his defense masterfully by picking off Roethlisberger twice (one being returned for a touchdown) + Forced a 3rd turnover on a Mendenhall fumble + after Steelers got the ball with 2 minutes left in a 6 point game Mike's defense came up with the Super clutch turnover on downs to end the game. Also Suisham missing a FG was a beautiful playcall by McCarthy.

Kyle's defense had 2 different opportunities to come up with a championship winning stop and couldn't get it done. If KC recovers 1 less than 6 fumbles they recovered, the 9ers are likely champs. If KC missed a FG, the 49ers are Super Bowl Champions.

[wco81]

Kyle decides who's the DC.

Not sure McCarthy has ever had that decision.

Both are offensive guys.

In any event, this isn't the first big game loss where his decisions could be questioned.

How many more big game losses would it take to convince you?

[thesack12]

Kyle decides who's the DC.

Not sure McCarthy has ever had that decision.

Both are offensive guys.

In any event, this isn't the first big game loss where his decisions could be questioned.

How many more big game losses would it take to convince you?

Yeah, and 2 out the 3 DC's that he chose were plucked away and given head coaching jobs elsewhere. He's also had an offensive assistant given a head coach job, and at least 3 other lower level offensive assistants given OC jobs. So its pretty obvious that the NFL is pretty high on what Kyle does.

By the way, that amount of coaching turnover, especially in that short of a timeframe can sink a team. If you don't think continuity matters, just look at the Eagles.

When Kyle's teams stop making the final 4 on an annual basis, without the luxury of a HOF caliber no less, then you'll convince me that he's not the guy.

[49er4life1979]

Kyle decides who's the DC.

Not sure McCarthy has ever had that decision.

Both are offensive guys.

In any event, this isn't the first big game loss where his decisions could be questioned.

How many more big game losses would it take to convince you?

Yeah, and 2 out the 3 DC's that he chose were plucked away and given head coaching jobs elsewhere. He's also had an offensive assistant given a head coach job, and at least 3 other lower level offensive assistants given OC jobs. So its pretty obvious that the NFL is pretty high on what Kyle does.

By the way, that amount of coaching turnover, especially in that short of a timeframe can sink a team. If you don't think continuity matters, just look at the Eagles.

When Kyle's teams stop making the final 4 on an annual basis, without the luxury of a HOF caliber no less, then you'll convince me that he's not the guy.

Exactly. All these folks calling for Kyle to be replaced are misguided. If I recall, it took Andy Reid a few tries to finally win the NFC Title Game with Philly. And even longer to win a Super Bowl. Hypothetically, who would they replace Kyle with? Highly unlikely that a new coach comes in and does better. Since 2019, 4 trips to the NFC Title Game and 2 Super Bowl appearances. Thats pretty consistent success right there in a league thats ultra competetive, with annual roster turnover, salary cap, and injuries. Secondly, those fans should be careful what they wish for. Twice in their history the Niners inexplicably got rid of two successful coaches, and both times paid a price. In 2003 they fired a successful coach in Steve Mariucci after he just took them to two playoff appearances the last two seasons there, plus two other playoff trips before that. They replaced him with Dennis Erickson which was obviously an epic disaster. It took them 8 years to finally stumble upon another very good coach in Jim Harbaugh. And after Harbs was wildly successful with the Niners they got rid of him too and sided with phucking cluless Baalke. And we know how things were after that until Kyle and John came in. So unless those folks tell me who they would replace Kyle with, no sale.

[zman1]

Read on Twitter

That is freaking crazy. And we still almost won the SB. Fire the coach! 7 fumbles, we get one. Missed extra point, punt hits a blockers ankle. Fire the coach! So close, so freaking close.

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[zman1]

Good discussion of critical plays, including Brendel and Brock.

https://l.smartnews.com/p-72B8x/fKKg5x

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[CrimsonCrew]

Read on Twitter

I blame Kyle for this one.

If he would have argued and bitched loud enough, he would have convinced the refs to throw a very late flag.

This play kills me. There was another one where Mahomes bailed out of the pocket and the OG literally put his arms around Hargrave's waist and pulled him back to keep him from corralling Mahomes. It was obvious, right out in the open, Hargrave was the closest defender to the QB, and no call.

Going into this game, we should have expected that the refs would swallow their flags on offensive holding. Except they didn't. They called Big Trent for a hold early, negating a huge 2nd and 17 conversion that would have kept our second drive alive at mid-field. And they later called a hold on Willis when Kittle got hurt. Those were defensible calls, but not in the context of this game. You can't let them hold and not us. If we pick up that first down, this offense is moving yet again. Very good chance we get points. Instead, we have to punt.

The McCaffrey fumble and that holding call against Trent completely killed what should have been a ton of offensive momentum to start this game. And it's complete BS that the same officiating crew has absolutely killed us by refusing to call KC for holding in two SBs now.

And look, still lots of opportunities to win this game. But that is just absolute one-sided officiating, and it's unacceptable at any level, and especially the super bowl.

[thesack12]

Read on Twitter

I blame Kyle for this one.

If he would have argued and bitched loud enough, he would have convinced the refs to throw a very late flag.

This play kills me. There was another one where Mahomes bailed out of the pocket and the OG literally put his arms around Hargrave's waist and pulled him back to keep him from corralling Mahomes. It was obvious, right out in the open, Hargrave was the closest defender to the QB, and no call.

Going into this game, we should have expected that the refs would swallow their flags on offensive holding. Except they didn't. They called Big Trent for a hold early, negating a huge 2nd and 17 conversion that would have kept our second drive alive at mid-field. And they later called a hold on Willis when Kittle got hurt. Those were defensible calls, but not in the context of this game. You can't let them hold and not us. If we pick up that first down, this offense is moving yet again. Very good chance we get points. Instead, we have to punt.

The McCaffrey fumble and that holding call against Trent completely killed what should have been a ton of offensive momentum to start this game. And it's complete BS that the same officiating crew has absolutely killed us by refusing to call KC for holding in two SBs now.

And look, still lots of opportunities to win this game. But that is just absolute one-sided officiating, and it's unacceptable at any level, and especially the super bowl.

Heard an interesting, yet aggravating, stat today. In 3 of their 4 super Bowls (including the 2 against SF) KC has gotten called for 0 offensive holding penalties.

To provide a bit further context to that, KC led the NFL in holding penalties in the regular season. So did they all of the sudden get better with their technique, or....

[CrimsonCrew]

Kyle decides who's the DC.

Not sure McCarthy has ever had that decision.

Both are offensive guys.

In any event, this isn't the first big game loss where his decisions could be questioned.

How many more big game losses would it take to convince you?

Every decent coach ends the season with a big game loss except one. So it's very knee-jerk to say, "He had a big game loss, let's move on!" He is an excellent coach who has this team at the peak of the league every year. It takes a lot to win a SB. Even excellent coaches who have done it before struggle to do it twice. Firing Kyle would be a huge mistake.

That's not to say he should be free from criticism. He has plenty of areas to improve in. His teams are never as buttoned-up as I would like. His dropback passing game is pretty bad. He's incredibly arrogant - not necessarily a bad thing in this area, but he needs to be more willing to accept and address his mistakes.

This team could have won going away. But it's not all on Kyle. He didn't fumble on the first drive. He didn't false start and hold on the second drive, and he sure didn't call the holding penalty. He didn't get an extra point blocked. He didn't have a punt bounce off his ankle. He didn't allow the Chiefs' second-best player come through the line unblocked. There is PLENTY that he did do (multiple head-scratching play calls, the decision to receive in OT, arguably clock management). But he had us in a strong position to win this one.

[thesack12]

Kyle decides who's the DC.

Not sure McCarthy has ever had that decision.

Both are offensive guys.

In any event, this isn't the first big game loss where his decisions could be questioned.

How many more big game losses would it take to convince you?

Every decent coach ends the season with a big game loss except one. So it's very knee-jerk to say, "He had a big game loss, let's move on!" He is an excellent coach who has this team at the peak of the league every year. It takes a lot to win a SB. Even excellent coaches who have done it before struggle to do it twice. Firing Kyle would be a huge mistake.

That's not to say he should be free from criticism. He has plenty of areas to improve in. His teams are never as buttoned-up as I would like. His dropback passing game is pretty bad. He's incredibly arrogant - not necessarily a bad thing in this area, but he needs to be more willing to accept and address his mistakes.

This team could have won going away. But it's not all on Kyle. He didn't fumble on the first drive. He didn't false start and hold on the second drive, and he sure didn't call the holding penalty. He didn't get an extra point blocked. He didn't have a punt bounce off his ankle. He didn't allow the Chiefs' second-best player come through the line unblocked. There is PLENTY that he did do (multiple head-scratching play calls, the decision to receive in OT, arguably clock management). But he had us in a strong position to win this one.

Beautiful post.

I would add that every playoff game is a big game. So Kyle has won plenty of big games, he just hasn't won the biggest game yet.

[thesack12]

Andy Reid's Eagles career starting at age 41:

1999: Missed playoffs
2000: Lost in 2nd round
2001: Lost in NFC Championship game
2002: Lost in NFC Championship game (Had 1st round bye)
2003: Lost in NFC Championship game (Had 1st round bye)
2004: Lost in Super Bowl (Had 1st round bye)
2005: Missed Playoffs
2006: Lost in 2nd round
2007: Missed Playoffs
2008: Lost in NFC Championship game
2009: Lost in 1st round
2010: Lost in 1st round
2011: Missed playoffs
2012: Missed playoffs

Talk about having a reputation for losing big games: 1/5 in conference championships and 0/1 in the Super Bowl.

[Pattersonca65]

Interesting observations

https://www.ninersnation.com/2024/2/16/24074165/kyle-shanahan-deebo-samuel-spencer-burford-george-kittle-49ers-chiefs-super-bowl

[Harry Palmer]

Read on Twitter

I blame Kyle for this one.

If he would have argued and bitched loud enough, he would have convinced the refs to throw a very late flag.

This play kills me. There was another one where Mahomes bailed out of the pocket and the OG literally put his arms around Hargrave's waist and pulled him back to keep him from corralling Mahomes. It was obvious, right out in the open, Hargrave was the closest defender to the QB, and no call.

Going into this game, we should have expected that the refs would swallow their flags on offensive holding. Except they didn't. They called Big Trent for a hold early, negating a huge 2nd and 17 conversion that would have kept our second drive alive at mid-field. And they later called a hold on Willis when Kittle got hurt. Those were defensible calls, but not in the context of this game. You can't let them hold and not us. If we pick up that first down, this offense is moving yet again. Very good chance we get points. Instead, we have to punt.

The McCaffrey fumble and that holding call against Trent completely killed what should have been a ton of offensive momentum to start this game. And it's complete BS that the same officiating crew has absolutely killed us by refusing to call KC for holding in two SBs now.

And look, still lots of opportunities to win this game. But that is just absolute one-sided officiating, and it's unacceptable at any level, and especially the super bowl.

Heard an interesting, yet aggravating, stat today. In 3 of their 4 super Bowls (including the 2 against SF) KC has gotten called for 0 offensive holding penalties.

To provide a bit further context to that, KC led the NFL in holding penalties in the regular season. So did they all of the sudden get better with their technique, or....

Experience teaches me that unless the call generates enough attention to get a nickname, the details about injuries, horrible calls and dumb luck will, over time, be almost completely forgotten because sports is the one field wherein consequentialism still has any cache.

[wco81]

Chiefs, especially with Taylor, is the best story in the NFL.


Next year even more, going for 3-peat and after the highest-rated SB ratings of all time, they will want to see KC get back to the big game and win.

Teams will have to defeat the Chiefs and the refs.

[zman1]

Chiefs, especially with Taylor, is the best story in the NFL.


Next year even more, going for 3-peat and after the highest-rated SB ratings of all time, they will want to see KC get back to the big game and win.

Teams will have to defeat the Chiefs and the refs.

So, what you are saying is that we need one of our guys to hook up with a hot celebrity? How about Brock and Beyonce? Lol. You don't actually believe that horse manure do you?

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[wco81]

Yeah and I totally believe the Chiefs never were guilty of holding either.

[Jax_23]

The thought of people rather be a rebuilding team being irrelevant to being a top team in the league with a shot every year is the craziest thing I have ever heard. Also the whole fire Kyle crowd is crazy to me as well, he is considered a top 5 coach in the league. I am not sure who else you think we are going to get that is going to bring us to the promise land.

I get the emotion and frustration, I really do. We are all experiencing that right now.

That said, I'll never understand the fire Kyle crowd.

Since 2019, Outside of the historically bad run of injuries in 2020, the 49ers have been to 2 Super Bowls and 2 NFCCG's. Which equates to making the final 4 in 4/5 seasons. In one of those NFCCG's the 9ers weren't even capable of making a forward pass for like 50% of the game, after losing QB1 like 7 minutes into the game.

Because the 49ers have been so good the last 5 years, I think some folks lose grip on just how hard it is to win in the NFL. Making annual deep playoff runs aren't mundane accomplishments nor are they forgone conclusions.

On top of all this, the 49ers have remained a legit contender despite MASSIVE turnover among the coaching staff. No team in the league has endured the amount of turnover that SF has. And if you don't think coaching continuity is important just look at the Eagles this season.

Of course Kyle has flaws, and he gets quite upsetting at times. Still, he's a high end coach in this league.

Also, as you alluded to as well, there is one thing people calling for Kyle's head always leave out. They never include a name that would be a better option.

Congrats, he's Marv Levy and the 49ers are the the new 90's Buffalo Bills

[CrimsonCrew]

Chiefs, especially with Taylor, is the best story in the NFL.


Next year even more, going for 3-peat and after the highest-rated SB ratings of all time, they will want to see KC get back to the big game and win.

Teams will have to defeat the Chiefs and the refs.

So, what you are saying is that we need one of our guys to hook up with a hot celebrity? How about Brock and Beyonce? Lol. You don't actually believe that horse manure do you?

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There are always bad calls in any game, both bad called penalties and no-calls. And probably the biggest called penalty in the game was the defensive holding on 3rd and long in overtime, which benefitted us.

That said, I'm pretty pissed that a crew that is infamous for not calling offensive holding called us twice, especially the early one, which was not egregious and killed our momentum in our second drive. There were three or four very obvious, very significant holds by the Chiefs that went uncalled in this game. Again, if they weren't calling any holds...okay. It is what it is to an extent, though I still think it's BS. But to call them against one team and not the other is absurd.

That said, I didn't feel the officials' thumbs were on the scale in this one. We had more than enough opportunities to win it despite the no-calls.

[Harry Palmer]

Chiefs, especially with Taylor, is the best story in the NFL.


Next year even more, going for 3-peat and after the highest-rated SB ratings of all time, they will want to see KC get back to the big game and win.

Teams will have to defeat the Chiefs and the refs.

So, what you are saying is that we need one of our guys to hook up with a hot celebrity? How about Brock and Beyonce? Lol. You don't actually believe that horse manure do you?

Sent from my SM-X610 using Tapatalk

There are always bad calls in any game, both bad called penalties and no-calls. And probably the biggest called penalty in the game was the defensive holding on 3rd and long in overtime, which benefitted us.

That said, I'm pretty pissed that a crew that is infamous for not calling offensive holding called us twice, especially the early one, which was not egregious and killed our momentum in our second drive. There were three or four very obvious, very significant holds by the Chiefs that went uncalled in this game. Again, if they weren't calling any holds...okay. It is what it is to an extent, though I still think it's BS. But to call them against one team and not the other is absurd.

That said, I didn't feel the officials' thumbs were on the scale in this one. We had more than enough opportunities to win it despite the no-calls.

I didn’t get the sense it was intentional, but I did get the sense it was habitual. Ie, the refs are human too and the Chiefs have a cache that the Niners don’t, and I thought it played a role particularly as the game wore on. I think calling a drive killing holding on Mahomes’ Chiefs late in a close SB is a slightly different thing than calling one on a Purdy Niners team. But probably nothing the Montana Niners didn’t benefit from in their day either.

[CrimsonCrew]

The thought of people rather be a rebuilding team being irrelevant to being a top team in the league with a shot every year is the craziest thing I have ever heard. Also the whole fire Kyle crowd is crazy to me as well, he is considered a top 5 coach in the league. I am not sure who else you think we are going to get that is going to bring us to the promise land.

I get the emotion and frustration, I really do. We are all experiencing that right now.

That said, I'll never understand the fire Kyle crowd.

Since 2019, Outside of the historically bad run of injuries in 2020, the 49ers have been to 2 Super Bowls and 2 NFCCG's. Which equates to making the final 4 in 4/5 seasons. In one of those NFCCG's the 9ers weren't even capable of making a forward pass for like 50% of the game, after losing QB1 like 7 minutes into the game.

Because the 49ers have been so good the last 5 years, I think some folks lose grip on just how hard it is to win in the NFL. Making annual deep playoff runs aren't mundane accomplishments nor are they forgone conclusions.

On top of all this, the 49ers have remained a legit contender despite MASSIVE turnover among the coaching staff. No team in the league has endured the amount of turnover that SF has. And if you don't think coaching continuity is important just look at the Eagles this season.

Of course Kyle has flaws, and he gets quite upsetting at times. Still, he's a high end coach in this league.

Also, as you alluded to as well, there is one thing people calling for Kyle's head always leave out. They never include a name that would be a better option.

Congrats, he's Marv Levy and the 49ers are the the new 90's Buffalo Bills

What coach other than Reid would you want over him? Maybe McVay, as he is a good coach and was able to win one recently. Other than that? If you don't like what Shanahan is putting out there, you're gonna hate what the rest of the league is doing.

Harbaugh hasn't made the SB since the 2012 season. Tomlinson hasn't made it since 2010. McDermott has never made it. McCarthy hasn't gotten all that close since 2010, and nowhere near with his current squad. Siriani made it once, and then his team fell apart despite comparable talent. Tough to see all these other coaches you'd take over him.

And at the end of the day, plenty of squads from the '80s would have killed to have Marv Levy. The NFC won the SB for 13 straight years from '84 (season) to '96, and only six teams did so (the Niners, Giants, Cowboys, and Washington account for 11 of those wins). I'd rather get to the mountain top and lose than muddle around in mediocrity.