Harden may be coming here?

[Ballings7]

WCF or bust? No, it's championship this year or disaster. We have no picks until 2030 and the oldest team in the NBA. This is the most "win-now" you can possibly be, and our chances of actually winning now are minuscule. Even if we do somehow pull a title out of our ass, the rest of this decade is going to suck.

I'd imagine there'll be at least 2-3 trades in the next few years to get R1 picks.

[KL2]

Read on Twitter

[esqtvd]

A FRP 5 years from now? Life is too short to worry about such things. And SRPs are common as dirt--the only one that's worked out is T-Mann. I agree with those here who said developmental talent is cheap and easy to find.


The numbers say Tucker is not baked yet. I'm afraid Batum is. Mook was untradable garbage and RoCo is at best a role player.

I saw Filip Petrusev in summer league--a SRP in 2021, he was not expected to make the Sixers but won a spot. Serbian, 6"11", 230. Reminds you of you-know-who, but I thought a little quicker. A longshot but not just a throw-in.

I was never a fan of Beard, but watching him with the Sixers last year, he was a force and a factor. Harden is in a whole different league than what we gave up, and include Mann in that too. Plus now Russ can be Russ, creating havoc and bringing manic energy.

Still keeping Mann for the future. Basically we're replacing Mann with Harden as the starter, and Batum with Tucker.


BTW:

Nikola Jokic has averaged 19.0 points, 10.4 rebounds and 6.4 assists in 23 games versus P.J. Tucker in his career.

[madmaxmedia]

After sleeping on this trade, my conclusion is still the same. Clips badly overpaid, eating Tucker's corpse, giving up 2 more SRPs, and ALL of the PF depth (RoCo, Batum, KMJ, Mook) was Morey extracting maximum bounty to hurt the Clips. I have no clue why, with the Harden situation deteriorating so badly, they pulled the trigger now, than wait another week or so.

One or two of the following changes woulda made this move so much more palatable to me.

Not giving up 2 extra SRPs
Trading Coffey instead of KMJ
No Tucker, keep one of RoCo or Batum
No future pick swap (obviously this would be the hardest ask)

If the Clippers dont get superstar Harden for this season and next, this is trade is utterly crippling in the future. Hopefully all 3 of Kawhi, PG13, and Harden are willing to take discounts to stay together, cuz maxing all 3 is suicide.

Keeping one of the PF's would have been nice, instead of trading 4 LOL.

As far as next contracts go, I'll leave it to capologists to figure out whether it makes any difference roster wise whether we pay max contracts or somewhat less than max contracts for the 3 guys. If we're capped out/2nd apron/repeat offender in rehab/whatever either way, then I could care less and I doubt Ballmer does either. OTOH if they can work something out that frees up even a little bit of edge flexibility for roster moves, hopefully we can swing that.

[nickhx2]

yo, FINALLY we got rid of his ass - ty lue, somewhere, on robert covington

[madmaxmedia]

Everything about this is awful except that we're finally free of Marcus Morris and we didn't trade Mann. We are still an old, slow, no-upside team that won't beat Denver and we just gave away more picks to lock ourselves in to a team that's not good enough. Harden's going to quit at the slightest adversity. Frank needs to be fired.

Nah the trade worked out much better than anticipated. "Old & slow"? We just got rid of three guys in their mid thirties who are almost out of the league. We'll miss Batum but he's almost done. Lue didn't play RoCo and Morris being moved was long overdue. KJ Martin didn't look that good to me in the short time he was with us. Still have Mann, Bones, Boston, Kobe Brown, Josh Primo, etc. And young talent is easy to get now. OKC has 30+ picks over the next six years but unfortunately you can only have 15 players on a roster. They can't draft 5-6 new players a year and absorb them into their team. Rosters are full, vets aren't retiring, a new draft every season, players coming from overseas, the G League, etc. Its nothing getting young talent anymore so the 2028 1st rounder we're giving up is meaningless. OKC, Houston, etc are going to be cutting and releasing 1st round picks with upside after only one season with them. Teams who have traded away pics like us, the Lakers, Wolves, etc. will pick those players up for peanuts over the next 2-4 years. The league has changed

This Harden move after the smoke has cleared is now looking like a low risk move imo. If it doesn't work then he's a free agent at the end of the season and we move on from him. Still has to see how this works out. Who starts, who comes off the bench. I too was against acquiring Harden, but now that we didn't give up much to get him, lets see how this plays out.

I don't know about that, 2 firsts and 2 seconds for a one year rental isn't a good outcome.

Obviously that would be the worst case outcome. I mean if hypothetically everything went to crap, Harden is pouting, Kawhi's knee falls off and we lose the play-in game with Harden going 1-17, we might be throwing good money after bad chasing a Harden re-up. IMO things will be better than that and re-signing all 3 will be the thing to do after the season, but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we reach it.

[UKClipperfan]

[nickhx2]

wait do the one with the joker "here we go" too

[madmaxmedia]

A FRP 5 years from now? Life is too short to worry about such things. And SRPs are common as dirt--the only one that's worked out is T-Mann. I agree with those here who said developmental talent is cheap and easy to find.


The numbers say Tucker is not baked yet. I'm afraid Batum is. Mook was untradable garbage and RoCo is at best a role player.

I saw Filip Petrusev in summer league--a SRP in 2021, he was not expected to make the Sixers but won a spot. Serbian, 6"11", 230. Reminds you of you-know-who, but I thought a little quicker. A longshot but not just a throw-in.

I was never a fan of Beard, but watching him with the Sixers last year, he was a force and a factor. Harden is in a whole different league than what we gave up, and include Mann in that too. Plus now Russ can be Russ, creating havoc and bringing manic energy.

Still keeping Mann for the future. Basically we're replacing Mann with Harden as the starter, and Batum with Tucker.

BTW:

Nikola Jokic has averaged 19.0 points, 10.4 rebounds and 6.4 assists in 23 games versus P.J. Tucker in his career.

Outside of questions about Harden's attitude (we'll just have to see on that), on the court Harden is still a baller and actually a great passer/playmaker. I think he will make things easier for PG and Kawhi. He's not 35 PPG 'The Beard' any more, but should be a great 3rd scorer. I don't mean he has to defer and always be #3, just that he doesn't have to be #1.

A 'big 3' with PG/Kawhi/Harden is a definite upgrade over a big 3 of PG/Kawhi/RWB, and we gave up one 1st and 2 swaps for him. Talent-wise it's a net win trade IMO, but we'll have to see on the outcome.

[esqtvd]

FTR: Blaming L-Frank for any of these major moves is unfounded. Never doubt that the buck stops with Ballmer. The underlings did months of interminable back-and-forth but in the end, both Ballmer and the Sixers owner got tired of it and took the reins.

r/nba

[Charania] "In a unique moment Monday, sources told me Josh Harris & Steve Balmer, the 2 owners of the Sixers & Clippers, got on a call and ironed out the trade that sent Harden finally to LA. This showed ownership sign-off and impact on a deal negotiated by Daryl Morey & Lawrence Frank"

___________________

ADD: Life is too short. The Future is Now.




ADD 2: Ballmer on PG13 pod: Win now. Being in Los Angeles will attract FAs.

Read on Twitter

/video/1

[Clemenza]

After sleeping on this trade, my conclusion is still the same. Clips badly overpaid, eating Tucker's corpse, giving up 2 more SRPs, and ALL of the PF depth (RoCo, Batum, KMJ, Mook) was Morey extracting maximum bounty to hurt the Clips. I have no clue why, with the Harden situation deteriorating so badly, they pulled the trigger now, than wait another week or so.

One or two of the following changes woulda made this move so much more palatable to me.

Not giving up 2 extra SRPs
Trading Coffey instead of KMJ
No Tucker, keep one of RoCo or Batum
No future pick swap (obviously this would be the hardest ask)

If the Clippers dont get superstar Harden for this season and next, this is trade is utterly crippling in the future. Hopefully all 3 of Kawhi, PG13, and Harden are willing to take discounts to stay together, cuz maxing all 3 is suicide.

Ty didn't play RoCo. Mook is beyond washed. I like Batum but his days are almost done and I think KMJ wasn't that good of a player. Kobe Brown was going to pass him up in the depth chart in a month or so if not sooner. 2nd round picks are a dime a dozen and easily acquired. Go ahead and get mad at the 2028 1st rounder but this trade is far from damaging to our future.

[MartinToVaught]

A FRP 5 years from now? Life is too short to worry about such things.

This is probably what Billy King was telling himself while trading the farm for washed-up KG and Pierce.

Nikola Jokic has averaged 19.0 points, 10.4 rebounds and 6.4 assists in 23 games versus P.J. Tucker in his career.

Jokic's averaged 24.5 points, 13.8 rebounds and 9.5 assists in this matchup since Tucker left Milwaukee.

PJ, again, is 38 years old and will be turning 39 in May. It's delusional to expect him to limit Jokic in any way like he could when they were both younger.

[Clemenza]

Getting young talent isn't a problem anymore. There's no need to tank for a potential superstar from the draft anymore. Half of these highly drafted kids aren't even panning out or just becoming role players. We're fine in the youth department with Mann, Bones, Brandon Boston, Kobe Brown, and Josh Primo. We just need health and cohesion from our stars

We've never gotten our cornerstone franchise player from the draft, and we've never won anything. There's a pretty obvious correlation there.

The closest we've come is Blake, and as great as he was, he wasn't LeBron, Duncan, Curry, Giannis, etc. Until we draft a player like that, we're going to keep running into the same wall every year, like an NFL team who keeps bringing in veteran game managers instead of trying to draft a franchise QB.

Those are once in a generational players you mentioned. But how many cornerstone players are even coming into the league these days? Luka, Anthony Edwards, Wemby(maybe?). Blake was "that cornerstone guy" but we took the ball out of his hands, slowed the offense down, and everything became a half court affair when we got CP3. Half of these kids are f*ckups now coming into the league. How's the Zion, Ja Morant situation going? The league was literally theirs for the taking. Charlotte is still struggling to turn somebody into a star if they can even keep them on the roster. These hyped up G League players aren't panning out. OKC has 30+ picks over the next six years and is still rolling and getting by with SGA, the guy that we gave them. After all these drafts, newcomers, and hype the league is still promoting Bron, Curry, Lillard, Kawhi, Giannis, etc.

Trust I love the draft and getting new young players but this league isn't even what you think it is anymore. Its 2023-24. This kids want to whil out and be NBA Youngboy not LeBron James.

[esqtvd]

A FRP 5 years from now? Life is too short to worry about such things. And SRPs are common as dirt--the only one that's worked out is T-Mann. I agree with those here who said developmental talent is cheap and easy to find.


The numbers say Tucker is not baked yet. I'm afraid Batum is. Mook was untradable garbage and RoCo is at best a role player.

I saw Filip Petrusev in summer league--a SRP in 2021, he was not expected to make the Sixers but won a spot. Serbian, 6"11", 230. Reminds you of you-know-who, but I thought a little quicker. A longshot but not just a throw-in.

I was never a fan of Beard, but watching him with the Sixers last year, he was a force and a factor. Harden is in a whole different league than what we gave up, and include Mann in that too. Plus now Russ can be Russ, creating havoc and bringing manic energy.

Still keeping Mann for the future. Basically we're replacing Mann with Harden as the starter, and Batum with Tucker.

BTW:

Nikola Jokic has averaged 19.0 points, 10.4 rebounds and 6.4 assists in 23 games versus P.J. Tucker in his career.

Outside of questions about Harden's attitude (we'll just have to see on that), on the court Harden is still a baller and actually a great passer/playmaker. I think he will make things easier for PG and Kawhi. He's not 35 PPG 'The Beard' any more, but should be a great 3rd scorer. I don't mean he has to defer and always be #3, just that he doesn't have to be #1.

A 'big 3' with PG/Kawhi/Harden is a definite upgrade over a big 3 of PG/Kawhi/RWB, and we gave up one 1st and 2 swaps for him. Talent-wise it's a net win trade IMO, but we'll have to see on the outcome.

Beard also had a couple of great games in the playoffs last year with Embiid out. I've never been afraid of him in the playoffs but I think one reason he wanted out of Philly is that he knows that. Kawhi is one of the great playoff players ever, and Beard can hide behind his skirts.

[MartinToVaught]

I mean if hypothetically everything went to crap, Harden is pouting, Kawhi's knee falls off and we lose the play-in game with Harden going 1-17

That's alarmingly close to the most likely outcome if you think about it. There's no logical reason to expect Kawhi to actually play when it matters after the last few years, or to expect Harden not to pout, quit, and choke in elimination games after his entire career to date. Maybe it'll be in the first or second round instead of the play-in, but that's not much better. All we have is hope, and hope is not a strategy.

Anything short of a title this year is an unmitigated disaster with how much of a hole this front office has dug for themselves asset-wise, and they did it for one of the most injury-prone players in the league and two of the biggest choke artists in the league, so it's all but set in stone how this is going to end.

[og15]

Nah the trade worked out much better than anticipated. "Old & slow"? We just got rid of three guys in their mid thirties who are almost out of the league. We'll miss Batum but he's almost done. Lue didn't play RoCo and Morris being moved was long overdue. KJ Martin didn't look that good to me in the short time he was with us. Still have Mann, Bones, Boston, Kobe Brown, Josh Primo, etc. And young talent is easy to get now. OKC has 30+ picks over the next six years but unfortunately you can only have 15 players on a roster. They can't draft 5-6 new players a year and absorb them into their team. Rosters are full, vets aren't retiring, a new draft every season, players coming from overseas, the G League, etc. Its nothing getting young talent anymore so the 2028 1st rounder we're giving up is meaningless. OKC, Houston, etc are going to be cutting and releasing 1st round picks with upside after only one season with them. Teams who have traded away pics like us, the Lakers, Wolves, etc. will pick those players up for peanuts over the next 2-4 years. The league has changed

This Harden move after the smoke has cleared is now looking like a low risk move imo. If it doesn't work then he's a free agent at the end of the season and we move on from him. Still has to see how this works out. Who starts, who comes off the bench. I too was against acquiring Harden, but now that we didn't give up much to get him, lets see how this plays out.

I don't know about that, 2 firsts and 2 seconds for a one year rental isn't a good outcome.

Obviously that would be the worst case outcome. I mean if hypothetically everything went to crap, Harden is pouting, Kawhi's knee falls off and we lose the play-in game with Harden going 1-17, we might be throwing good money after bad chasing a Harden re-up. IMO things will be better than that and re-signing all 3 will be the thing to do after the season, but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we reach it.

I definitely do not expect that outcome, but it certainly wouldn't be a "if it doesn't work, it's all good" situation. It would be kinda terrible if he just left for nothing. The whole reason the Clippers were the only trade partner is that all the other teams didn't want to trade for a rental.

So yea, it definitely needs to work for this trade to be good. Hopefully it does.

Harden's poutiness has made people underrate how good he is though. Harden is an elite passer with great vision, and he can still score. On this team he's a co-third option with Westbrook, not a first, not a second, so I'm a lot less worried about playoff Harden when Kawhi is there to take the big shots.

[nedleeds]

I mean if hypothetically everything went to crap, Harden is pouting, Kawhi's knee falls off and we lose the play-in game with Harden going 1-17

That's alarmingly close to the most likely outcome if you think about it. There's no logical reason to expect Kawhi to actually play when it matters after the last few years, or to expect Harden not to pout, quit, and choke in elimination games after his entire career to date. Maybe it'll be in the first or second round instead of the play-in, but that's not much better. All we have is hope, and hope is not a strategy.

Anything short of a title this year is an unmitigated disaster with how much of a hole this front office has dug for themselves asset-wise, and they did it for one of the most injury-prone players in the league and two of the biggest choke artists in the league, so it's all but set in stone how this is going to end.

If you all are hovering around the 8th seed or playin by the trade deadline and lets say 1 of the 3 is injured would the FO have the stones to trade the healthy one (PG or Kawhi) who would be a psuedo rental for 1/2 season with a P/O next year?

You'd think if for example PG is healthy and playing like a top 15 player he'd fetch at least a Jrue/Beal return if not more because of positional scarcity.

[esqtvd]

After sleeping on this trade, my conclusion is still the same. Clips badly overpaid, eating Tucker's corpse, giving up 2 more SRPs, and ALL of the PF depth (RoCo, Batum, KMJ, Mook) was Morey extracting maximum bounty to hurt the Clips. I have no clue why, with the Harden situation deteriorating so badly, they pulled the trigger now, than wait another week or so.

One or two of the following changes woulda made this move so much more palatable to me.

Not giving up 2 extra SRPs
Trading Coffey instead of KMJ
No Tucker, keep one of RoCo or Batum
No future pick swap (obviously this would be the hardest ask)

If the Clippers dont get superstar Harden for this season and next, this is trade is utterly crippling in the future. Hopefully all 3 of Kawhi, PG13, and Harden are willing to take discounts to stay together, cuz maxing all 3 is suicide.

Ty didn't play RoCo. Mook is beyond washed. I like Batum but his days are almost done and I think KMJ wasn't that good of a player. Kobe Brown was going to pass him up in the depth chart in a month or so if not sooner. 2nd round picks are a dime a dozen and easily acquired. Go ahead and get mad at the 2028 1st rounder but this trade is far from damaging to our future.

Bingo. Bird in the hand. A FRP in 5 years?

Look at Keon Johnson--our 2021 FRP is already kicked to the curb to the team [Portland] we traded him to.* And the player we WISHED we drafted instead of him [Bones Hyland] was kicked to the curb by HIS drafting team.

Mann Tracht, Un Gott Lacht.

__________________________
*Keon Johnson just got waived by the team who picked him up, the Suns. And we actually traded up to acquire him from the Knicks @ #22.

[Clemenza]

I mean if hypothetically everything went to crap, Harden is pouting, Kawhi's knee falls off and we lose the play-in game with Harden going 1-17

That's alarmingly close to the most likely outcome if you think about it. There's no logical reason to expect Kawhi to actually play when it matters after the last few years, or to expect Harden not to pout, quit, and choke in elimination games after his entire career to date. Maybe it'll be in the first or second round instead of the play-in, but that's not much better. All we have is hope, and hope is not a strategy.

Anything short of a title this year is an unmitigated disaster with how much of a hole this front office has dug for themselves asset-wise, and they did it for one of the most injury-prone players in the league and two of the biggest choke artists in the league, so it's all but set in stone how this is going to end.

But for you to even say something like this means that we currently have a pretty good team on paper right? Worry less about the pics. Talent is flowing into the NBA at a high rate now. Its nothing to get players to develop as opposed to several years ago

[esqtvd]

Harden's poutiness has made people underrate how good he is though.

FTR: The Sixers loved him as a teammate and hung out with him over the summer. Harden's pout was purely Morey.

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/lists/james-harden-sixers-stars-seen-partying-together-at-michael-rubins/