Trade Idea Thread II

[nickhx2]

addition by subtraction in its simplest form.

jamal crawford is clearly a super negative player at this point. it's not worth him throwing 3-4 games for every 1 he might shoot 50%.

[Lindecision]

You're not getting someone better than Jamal for the minimum. Period.

[nickhx2]

lol did you not watch last night's game? or the 3 games that jamal butchered in the first series?

just for fun a list of some names i skimmed off of this next offseason's FA list who are making the minimum or will probably make the minimum in the future

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/510/shawn-marion

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3055/jj-barea

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1727 ... stoudemire

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2166/leandro-barbosa

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3277/cj-watson

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4259/ed-davis

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4235/greg-stiemsma


those are just a few of the guys that i would literally always take over jamal crawford. the dude is complete horsesh** as a player. he cost us game two and he will cost us more.

[QRich3]

You're not getting someone better than Jamal for the minimum. Period.

Probably not a guy with his skill level. But a more productive NBA player, you definitely can. Or if you don't like the word productive, a guy who helps your team win more than him.

[nickhx2]

You're not getting someone better than Jamal for the minimum. Period.

Probably not a guy with his skill level. But a more productive NBA player, you definitely can. Or if you don't like the word productive, a guy who helps your team win more than him.

yup.

equating production with playing winning basketball is why we have spencer hawes on our team.

[MartinToVaught]

You're not getting someone better than Jamal for the minimum. Period.

Literally anyone would be better than Jamal, so long as they don't grind the entire offense to a halt for the sake of chucking and their own personal stats. Jamal is not even a good player, he's just what Zach Lowe calls a "random points generator." I don't understand people's sentimental attachment to him as if he doesn't lose far more games for us than he wins.

[LACtdom]

Jamal is a great player who is fun to watch (sometimes) but it's clear that Doc won't use him appropriately so he must go.
Even when it comes to bail out shots, in what world would anyone prefer an ugly contested Jamal 3 attempt over a CP contested step back mid range shot?

[Ranma]

What is it with Doc and his preference for chuckers? Jordan Farmar, Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers, and Nate Robinson. The guy espouses the values of Ubuntu but goes after and gives playing time to players who seemingly go against that philosophy. Good lord. My morbid curiosity wonders what kind of team he would build from scratch--for anyone other than the Clippers--had he not been given the good fortune of inheriting both Paul and Griffin. It wouldn't surprise me to see an Isiah-Thomas level of miss from Doc Paradox.

[nickhx2]

What is it with Doc and his preference for chuckers? Jordan Farmar, Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers, and Nate Robinson. The guy espouses the values of Ubuntu but goes after and gives playing time to players who seemingly go against that philosophy. Good lord. My morbid curiosity wonders what kind of team he would build from scratch--for anyone other than the Clippers--had he not been given the good fortune of inheriting both Paul and Griffin. It wouldn't surprise me to see an Isiah-Thomas level of miss from Doc Paradox.

LOL

ok i had to seriously laugh at the idea of him creating a roster from the ground up.

[nickhx2]

Jamal is a great player who is fun to watch (sometimes) but it's clear that Doc won't use him appropriately so he must go.
Even when it comes to bail out shots, in what world would anyone prefer an ugly contested Jamal 3 attempt over a CP contested step back mid range shot?

this reminds me of something. after reading this i remember quite vividly loving jamal crawford when he was first on the team. and that was pretty much because every time he had the ball he would do some sick and1 crossover move to make his opponent look silly, but he'd make it a fair amount of the time.

nowadays though, he simply doesn't do that anymore. i think he just doesn't have the athleticism to do it, and losing that part of his game took away all his midrange and slashing abilities, which naturally would have helped mitigate all the rest of the awful shots he would take otherwise.

if this is what a 35 year old crawford is like, i definitely don't want to know what a 36 year old one is like. he's gotta go

[Lindecision]

You're not getting someone better than Jamal for the minimum. Period.

Probably not a guy with his skill level. But a more productive NBA player, you definitely can. Or if you don't like the word productive, a guy who helps your team win more than him.

No you're not. Maybe if we had a good GM, but we don't. Even if we had a good GM the chances of that happening would be slim.

those are just a few of the guys that i would literally always take over jamal crawford. the dude is complete horsesh** as a player. he cost us game two and he will cost us more.

Jamal cost us game 2? He was the reason? News to me. At no point did I think that watching the game. I didn't think that in our 3 losses to the Spurs either. Maybe if I set up camp in the game threads my opinion might change. I don't know.

When the offense breaks down we throw it to him and hope he bails us out. That's not all on him. I won't elaborate further because it looks like some of you are blaming him for everything regardless. I like Barea and CJ Watson though, but you're not getting them for the minimum.

[QRich3]

You're not getting someone better than Jamal for the minimum. Period.

Probably not a guy with his skill level. But a more productive NBA player, you definitely can. Or if you don't like the word productive, a guy who helps your team win more than him.

No you're not. Maybe if we had a good GM, but we don't. Even if we had a good GM the chances of that happening would be slim.

those are just a few of the guys that i would literally always take over jamal crawford. the dude is complete horsesh** as a player. he cost us game two and he will cost us more.

Jamal cost us game 2? He was the reason? News to me. At no point did I think that watching the game. I didn't think that in our 3 losses to the Spurs either. Maybe if I set up camp in the game threads my opinion might change. I don't know.

When the offense breaks down we throw it to him and hope he bails us out. That's not all on him. I won't elaborate further because it looks like some of you are blaming him for everything regardless. I like Barea and CJ Watson though, but you're not getting them for the minimum.

Well I think you are the one overrating him. We score 107.9 points per 100 possessions when Jamal is on the court, and 111.3 points per 100 when he's out. We are a much better offensive team when he's on the bench. I can't fin a way to filter those stats by player-usage, but I'm completely sure that difference only multiplies when he shoots a lot. We're 7-12 in the last 2 years when he shoots 20 or more times, that's the same winning % the Nuggets got this year. We're 0-2 when he does it in the playoffs (OKC game 5 and Houston game 2). We outscore opponents by over 10 points-per-100 when he's sitting on the bench. Barely by 2 when he's in. He makes us a lot worse.

I don't buy the excuse that he chucks up shots when the offense breaks because he's the one hero that can bail us out. We don't need bailing out when he's on the bench but suddenly when he's on the court we're in need of a bail out chuck shot every other possession? Don't try to make it about us wanting to blame him, we're talking team performance here, and it's clearly worse when we're going to him. He's a toxic player that belongs to another era of basketball. People just keep coming to his defense because he's fun to watch and makes cool crossovers. But they don't usually end up in productive plays.

There is never one only reason for a loss, but his presence on the court has been equal to lack of ball movement and inefficient offense for us in the last few years. And that's not even going into what happens to our already bad defense when he gets in.

You can find players for the minimum to fit a specific roles who aren't gonna try to chew more than they can bite like he does. You don't even need to find the next Robert Covington out of the D-League. Get a steady back-up PG who can run simple P&R's. Or an unskilled defensive player who can guard wings for 10-15 minutes a night. Or a shooter that won't touch the ball much but can space the floor. Whoever you get, he's not gonna do as much damage as Jamal does. Again, I don't buy the excuse of we having a GM making it better for us to not make any changes. Whoever we get, even if he doesn't get playing time, is a better option for us than Jamal chucking us out of important playoff games.

[mattd13]

I think the coach should have a big part in this. the offense must have a better plan and that is on the coach. if jamal is not shooting well then do something else. the coach has to make the adjustment if the player does not. if this continues jamal will play his trade value down to nothing.

[Lindecision]

Maybe you're right, but I'm not prepared to lay into him either. I'm watching the game and I'm not thinking 'Jamal is killing us...' I'm thinking their defense has done everything to deny Blake and JJ the ball and invariably it ends up in Jamal's hands. His injury came at the worst time too. I've always understood the argument against him, but cutting Jamal is still the wrong thing to do. It won't give us an extra exception. You trade guys with that much salary on the books. His unguaranteed deal will have value to a number of teams.

[QRich3]

Yeah, if we can trade him let's go there first, definitely. Before I said to cut him, I said I'd rather have a bad contract and a 2nd for him, I think I mentioned Landry, Budinger, Thompson, even Nick Young. If it can't be done though, I'd rather have a less talented player that plays his role for the minimum. Not trying to blame him for everything, he does good things some times. But he does a lot more damage than good, in my eyes. Can't have that in the 2nd round of the playoffs, again.

[ejftw]

Can't we just convince the Hornets to take Crawford for Henderson or Marvin with #39 (Norman Powell).

[No-Man]

Trade Jamal Crawford and Spencer Hawes for Martell Webster, 49th overall and Kris Humphries.

[TheNewEra]

Jamal and Hawes for anything

[sportscrazy]

Jamal and Hawes for anything

Three-Team Deal where LAC sends out Jamal and Hawes then gets Carl Landry and Chase Budinger?

[mttwlsn16]

I am on the do not trade Hawes the way we traded Dudley bandwagon.

I am also on the Jamal I love you but you have got to go bandwagon.