Wings

[mattd13]

I had rather blow it up and start over than bring in troubled players like lance. there is surely better options than that. I personally will not watch that kind of player.

[mttwlsn16]

So you'd rather get rid of Blake, CP3, and let DJ walk and go back to sucking as opposed to keeping those 3 and adding Lance?

[mkwest]

Would you guys deal JJ for a wing with length?

he's one piece we have that has some value.

I would consider it in the right deal. He's the most valuable (realistic) trade asset that we have atm. Barnes/Crawford will only help in trade talks if you can find a partner that is looking to free up some cap space or unload a bad contract. Supposedly teams were interested in Hawes around the deadline, but the Clippers weren't willing to move him. I don't know what was being offered, but all you can hope for at this point is that he has a better showing next season.

[mttwlsn16]

Would you guys deal JJ for a wing with length?

he's one piece we have that has some value.

I would consider it in the right deal. He's the most valuable (realistic) trade asset that we have atm. Barnes/Crawford will only help in trade talks if you can find a partner that is looking to free up some cap space or unload a bad contract. Supposedly teams were interested in Hawes around the deadline, but the Clippers weren't willing to move him. I don't know what was being offered, but all you can hope for at this point is that he has a better showing next season.

Nice to see you're still here after your disappearing act following last years loss lol

[Method28]

I had rather blow it up and start over than bring in troubled players like lance. there is surely better options than that. I personally will not watch that kind of player.

Uhhhh Matt Barnes? Lol

[Method28]

Clippers need to play Hawes! Throw him on the court for an extended period and let him prove his worth. I feel that's the best move for us.

Also I feel the Clippers CAN pick up a two way player on the cheap considering it happens every year, I just don't feel confident that Doc is about to recognize what player can be the next CJ Miles etc.

A lot of the players we're talking about were considered scrap pieces not long ago. These players are out there, clips just have to recognize what players have the potential and bring it out in them.

[nickhx2]

astronomically difficult task with doc rivers at the helm, though.

[Method28]

astronomically difficult task with doc rivers at the helm, though.

Agreed 100% lol that's the sad part.

[QRich3]

Adding Lance is by no means a winning move, but its a potential solution that doesnt tie up money moving forward. Its a risky play, but its one that does make some sense.

Also, Lance' defense is no where equal to Crawford's. Even looking at 1 year samples of DRPM, Crawford ranked 100/101 at the shooting guard position with a -4.15. Lance did not have a good year by any means, but was essentially a net-neutral DRPM at -.21. Last year he ranked 19th out of SGs at .14. The plan would be to add his toughness and bring some semblance of a perimeter defender to the roster.

Lance absolutely has a lot of work to do offensively, but he is more of a creator than Crawford. Jamal has had an assist ratio greater than 20 one year during his career. Lance has never been below 21. Not saying thats the end all be all, but neither player is a great passer. We just need someone that can create and somewhat run the 2nd unit offense. Jamal has proven he isnt that guy.

My point being, he isnt solving our problems on offense or defense. However, he does provide a shot creating wing who can also play solid defense. We dont have that on our roster. Jamal isnt the answer, his defense far too porous and I dont see him getting a new deal with us next summer.

Again, its a risky deal, but our options are limited. I'd roll the dice for a season, especially if we are able to free up more cap space next summer by sending out Hawes in the deal.

Finally, I dont think any of those guys are coming for the minimum. My option was to offer the MMLE to Dunleavy on a 3 year deal, partially guaranteed on at least year 3. Like I said, I doubt the Bulls let him walk but its a push I would make for someone who can shoot from the 3 spot.

Yeah maybe equaling him to Crawford was an exaggeration, but the point was he's a bad defender. Not only is he not gonna help us get better on that end, he's gonna make us actively worse.

He's not a good offensive player either, he's just good at getting assists. The kind of assists that make a team play worse offense. That's not being a creator for me, definitely not a guy who can run an offense. I want someone who can play a system and get points out of the P&R and designed plays where the whole team participates. No more of this hero ball bullsh*t, no more 'I got this', no more Crawford, no more Austin, and definitely no Lance. He's a worse version of what we already have and what makes us a worse team. Every team in the league is intelligent enough to see that type of basketball has no place in the NBA no more, I'd be livid if we keep adding more of it. Rather have Hudson running our bench offense than Lance.

But yeah, he's the exact kind of player a stupid executive like Doc would want to add when he's desperate. So I can see it happening.

I don't like using RAPM as a subsequent order of the best defenders, it was not designed for that. It should used to see how good someone is playing their role in a team and how it reflects in +/-. Lance managed to have a negative DRPM in the best defensive team of the last decade (which ended up imploding bacause of his chemistry killin attitude). He's a really bad defender. The kind that will look like he's trying when the spotlight is on him, then take a few plays off and allow a 10-0 run that you're wondering how it even happened. That is very Jamal-like.

If we want a defensive wing let's go get Alonzo Gee or Mbah a Moute. If we want someone to run our 2nd unit offense go get Jameer Nelson or Will Bynum. No shotcuts, there's not a miracle player that can do all of that but nobody wants him because they don't understand him, but we can. Nobody wants Lance because he's a freakin disaster, let's not be the morons that get fooled by a smarter executive, not again.

[mattd13]

I am older than most of you guys and have been watching the nba for 50 years. I have seen it all and at the end of the day I am tired of guys like lance. I am surely not suggesting this but by blowing it up you keep blake and cp3 and start over. plus jj said matt was the best teammate he ever had. I don't think you will here that about mr. lance. I think the clips can get this done this summer. they are so close that one solid guy could make a difference. I think you have to look at Hudson and Hamilton and see if they can help before you go to the bottom of the food chain.

[mattd13]

I am older than most of you guys and have been watching the nba for 50 years. I have seen it all and at the end of the day I am tired of guys like lance. I am surely not suggesting this but by blowing it up you keep blake and cp3 and start over. plus jj said matt was the best teammate he ever had. I don't think you will here that about mr. lance. I think the clips can get this done this summer. they are so close that one solid guy could make a difference. I think you have to look at Hudson and Hamilton and see if they can help before you go to the bottom of the food chain.

[Quake Griffin]

btw.
super long shot that we get both players from SAS.
but it looks like Marco Bellinelli is a FA this offseason as well.

i remember 2-3 years ago it was rumored here that CP was lobbying to make him a Clipper.

edit:
please don't shoot.
I know someone said they want D from their wings.

[Quake Griffin]

I hope Al Farouq Aminu will give us a shot as well.

[BlzMwt]

Dorell Wright is an option? Shot well from 3 and has some length, still not that good of a defender though.

Marcus Thornton is undersized, but a decent option after having a down year and is only 27.

Every guy that gets listed here is gonna have some flaw because if they didn't, we wouldn't be able to afford them.

Also, obviously a he's a big but maybe take a chance on Thomas Robinson? The man is only 24 and hasn't been given a good enough shot yet IMO

[nickhx2]

from what i know of thornton i wouldn't mind him. but he just came off a pretty big contract. i'm wondering if MMLE is too little for him.

also, if a guy didn't get a shot elsewhere there's pretty close to 0% chance he gets one with doc.

doc is a horrific talent evaluator and just as bad at player development.

[TucsonClip]

Adding Lance is by no means a winning move, but its a potential solution that doesnt tie up money moving forward. Its a risky play, but its one that does make some sense.

Also, Lance' defense is no where equal to Crawford's. Even looking at 1 year samples of DRPM, Crawford ranked 100/101 at the shooting guard position with a -4.15. Lance did not have a good year by any means, but was essentially a net-neutral DRPM at -.21. Last year he ranked 19th out of SGs at .14. The plan would be to add his toughness and bring some semblance of a perimeter defender to the roster.

Lance absolutely has a lot of work to do offensively, but he is more of a creator than Crawford. Jamal has had an assist ratio greater than 20 one year during his career. Lance has never been below 21. Not saying thats the end all be all, but neither player is a great passer. We just need someone that can create and somewhat run the 2nd unit offense. Jamal has proven he isnt that guy.

My point being, he isnt solving our problems on offense or defense. However, he does provide a shot creating wing who can also play solid defense. We dont have that on our roster. Jamal isnt the answer, his defense far too porous and I dont see him getting a new deal with us next summer.

Again, its a risky deal, but our options are limited. I'd roll the dice for a season, especially if we are able to free up more cap space next summer by sending out Hawes in the deal.

Finally, I dont think any of those guys are coming for the minimum. My option was to offer the MMLE to Dunleavy on a 3 year deal, partially guaranteed on at least year 3. Like I said, I doubt the Bulls let him walk but its a push I would make for someone who can shoot from the 3 spot.

Yeah maybe equaling him to Crawford was an exaggeration, but the point was he's a bad defender. Not only is he not gonna help us get better on that end, he's gonna make us actively worse.

He's not a good offensive player either, he's just good at getting assists. The kind of assists that make a team play worse offense. That's not being a creator for me, definitely not a guy who can run an offense. I want someone who can play a system and get points out of the P&R and designed plays where the whole team participates. No more of this hero ball bullsh*t, no more 'I got this', no more Crawford, no more Austin, and definitely no Lance. He's a worse version of what we already have and what makes us a worse team. Every team in the league is intelligent enough to see that type of basketball has no place in the NBA no more, I'd be livid if we keep adding more of it. Rather have Hudson running our bench offense than Lance.

But yeah, he's the exact kind of player a stupid executive like Doc would want to add when he's desperate. So I can see it happening.

I don't like using RAPM as a subsequent order of the best defenders, it was not designed for that. It should used to see how good someone is playing their role in a team and how it reflects in +/-. Lance managed to have a negative DRPM in the best defensive team of the last decade (which ended up imploding bacause of his chemistry killin attitude). He's a really bad defender. The kind that will look like he's trying when the spotlight is on him, then take a few plays off and allow a 10-0 run that you're wondering how it even happened. That is very Jamal-like.

If we want a defensive wing let's go get Alonzo Gee or Mbah a Moute. If we want someone to run our 2nd unit offense go get Jameer Nelson or Will Bynum. No shotcuts, there's not a miracle player that can do all of that but nobody wants him because they don't understand him, but we can. Nobody wants Lance because he's a freakin disaster, let's not be the morons that get fooled by a smarter executive, not again.

Agree to disagree.

I dont think Lance is anywhere near a bad defender. I think hes average to slightly above average. Even if he were an average defender thats an improvement to our roster.

Dont need to debate him any more. I think he can help, and allows us to allocate some resources to PG, PF/C or another shooter.

I dont know if Doc will go that far to change things up, but I think he's viable risk on a 1 year deal. I also think there are better option out there, but will Doc see those options in the same light?

[Roscoe Sheed]

Clippers need to play Hawes! Throw him on the court for an extended period and let him prove his worth. I feel that's the best move for us.

Also I feel the Clippers CAN pick up a two way player on the cheap considering it happens every year, I just don't feel confident that Doc is about to recognize what player can be the next CJ Miles etc.

A lot of the players we're talking about were considered scrap pieces not long ago. These players are out there, clips just have to recognize what players have the potential and bring it out in them.

Hawes got a chance to play a lot when Blake was injured but he still played like garbage for the most part.

[nickhx2]

yeah but hawes isn't a power forward. the guy's a slow footed center who knows how to play center, not PF.

[Quake Griffin]

Redick for Middleton?

they have Giannis and Jabari

[nickhx2]

middleton's an elite defender and a great shooter, legit 2-way player. and an RFA. pretty much no way it happens since we have no legitimate assets to combine with redick.