ImageImageImageImageImage

Around the NBA II

Moderators: og15, TrueLAfan

clipperlover
Rookie
Posts: 1,207
And1: 997
Joined: Sep 10, 2019

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2461 » by clipperlover » Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:21 pm

esqtvd wrote:Ty finally has a rotation that's working and he's not gonna mess with it in the least. I wouldn't touch Mann as starter or Coffey taking the 4th quarter minutes. It's a tightrope. Don't look down.


Ty doesn't need a set rotation. He needs a variety of tools that he can use when the job calls for it. While P.J. and Bones haven't played lately, there could be a job where Ty needs to pull them out.

Pop used to pull one of his bench guys and put them in the starting line-up in the middle of a playoff series. Would catch the opponent off-guard and be a momentum shifter and force the opponent to change their game plan.

Waiting to see Ty deploy lineups with Zu and Theis and Plumlee and Theis vs some of the bigger line-ups. Ty keeps going to the small line-up, but he has to try different combinations for different opponents. Maybe they work on it in practice only and then deploy it at an opportune time.
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 10,891
And1: 3,902
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2462 » by esqtvd » Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:21 pm

clipperlover wrote:
esqtvd wrote:Ty finally has a rotation that's working and he's not gonna mess with it in the least. I wouldn't touch Mann as starter or Coffey taking the 4th quarter minutes. It's a tightrope. Don't look down.


Ty doesn't need a set rotation. He needs a variety of tools that he can use when the job calls for it. While P.J. and Bones haven't played lately, there could be a job where Ty needs to pull them out.

Pop used to pull one of his bench guys and put them in the starting line-up in the middle of a playoff series. Would catch the opponent off-guard and be a momentum shifter and force the opponent to change their game plan.

Waiting to see Ty deploy lineups with Zu and Theis and Plumlee and Theis vs some of the bigger line-ups. Ty keeps going to the small line-up, but he has to try different combinations for different opponents. Maybe they work on it in practice only and then deploy it at an opportune time.


Theis was a disaster in the Wolves loss. We went from 8 down to 17 down in 2 1/2 minutes.

DNP in the Dubs win. His time may have come and gone.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
User avatar
Dynamix
Starter
Posts: 2,053
And1: 2,302
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Location: Romania
 

When you ask a conference rival for advice 

Post#2463 » by Dynamix » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
MartinToVaught
RealGM
Posts: 15,158
And1: 17,199
Joined: Oct 19, 2014
     

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2464 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:20 pm

Read on Twitter
Image
User avatar
Dynamix
Starter
Posts: 2,053
And1: 2,302
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Location: Romania
 

Now we're having fun 

Post#2465 » by Dynamix » Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:05 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
MartinToVaught
RealGM
Posts: 15,158
And1: 17,199
Joined: Oct 19, 2014
     

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2466 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:54 pm

It's funny how Glenn couldn't even go one day without throwing other people under the bus after JJ called him on it.
Image
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 47,568
And1: 29,206
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2467 » by og15 » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:22 pm

Let's just take away whether Doc is a good coach or not, because we can distract from the discussion here.

I think Doc is a better coach than many give him credit for, but not as great a coach as some would say.

Okay, that out of the way, Doc revising history, saying things that are out of place and usually not necessary and deflecting blame from himself while throwing it to others is simply just his personality.

That's just some people's personality and it is definitely his, and it's also worked for him, so why would he stop?
wco81
RealGM
Posts: 22,123
And1: 9,259
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
       

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2468 » by wco81 » Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:27 am

Usually the members of the broadcasting crew don't come out with such strong opinions. They tend to be more conservative.

Especially as he will probably comment on some Bucks games this season and some people may think he's biased against Doc already.

It would be great if in the playoffs, including the Finals, JJ called out bad officiating, which you rarely see from ESPN and TNT announcers.

But that would probably annoy the NBA, which is in the midst of negotiating new TV contracts with Disney and TNT.
Ballings7
RealGM
Posts: 23,551
And1: 1,474
Joined: Jan 04, 2006

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2469 » by Ballings7 » Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:02 am

https://youtu.be/mI2FJ8yA2b0?t=369

2m23s to 6m25s ... good stuff

Luv JJ breaking the common fence down here on ESPN.

Always been pretty neutral on Doc.. but he is overworthy in the league, and has questonable approaches from some playoff series I believe. Like his announcing a lot though.
The Playoffs don't care about your Analytics
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 10,891
And1: 3,902
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2470 » by esqtvd » Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:29 am

Ballings7 wrote:https://youtu.be/mI2FJ8yA2b0?t=369

2m23s to 6m25s ... good stuff

Luv JJ breaking the common fence down here on ESPN.

Always been pretty neutral on Doc.. but he is overworthy in the league, and has questonable approaches from some playoff series I believe. Like his announcing a lot though.


Not even gonna get into Doc. It's not even about that.

JJ wants to be the white Stephen A. But Stephen A has class. JJ is a scorpion. Doc traded for you, believed in you.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/jerry-west-fires-back-at-jj-redick-over-bob-cousy-comments

"Well, obviously the game is completely different," West said. "The athletes are completely different. I know JJ a little bit, he's a very smart kid and everything. But tell me what his career looks like. What did he do that determined games? He averaged 12 PTS a game. Somewhere along the way numbers count."


12 points a game. Big man. Trying to make a name for himself. I don't think this will play. JJ has no respect for the game. Dogging BOB COUSY?? You piece of shtt. Don't you DARE.

JJ was a good player. Better than journeyman Austin, of course. But Austin was quite right that JJ was USELESS in the 4th quarter. Defensively a minus, and who needs a 3-point shooter when you need 2? Yes, Austin stood up for his dad, but that was a FACT.

What did he do that determined games?--Jerry West



Nothing. I saw JJ win a game for us. ONCE. Garbage talker. You never won SHTTT for us.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
wco81
RealGM
Posts: 22,123
And1: 9,259
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
       

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2471 » by wco81 » Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:50 pm

Austin had his old man's back after Reddick's comments.
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 47,568
And1: 29,206
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2472 » by og15 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:02 am

esqtvd wrote:
Ballings7 wrote:https://youtu.be/mI2FJ8yA2b0?t=369

2m23s to 6m25s ... good stuff

Luv JJ breaking the common fence down here on ESPN.

Always been pretty neutral on Doc.. but he is overworthy in the league, and has questonable approaches from some playoff series I believe. Like his announcing a lot though.


Not even gonna get into Doc. It's not even about that.

JJ wants to be the white Stephen A. But Stephen A has class. JJ is a scorpion. Doc traded for you, believed in you.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/jerry-west-fires-back-at-jj-redick-over-bob-cousy-comments

"Well, obviously the game is completely different," West said. "The athletes are completely different. I know JJ a little bit, he's a very smart kid and everything. But tell me what his career looks like. What did he do that determined games? He averaged 12 PTS a game. Somewhere along the way numbers count."


12 points a game. Big man. Trying to make a name for himself. I don't think this will play. JJ has no respect for the game. Dogging BOB COUSY?? You piece of shtt. Don't you DARE.

JJ was a good player. Better than journeyman Austin, of course. But Austin was quite right that JJ was USELESS in the 4th quarter. Defensively a minus, and who needs a 3-point shooter when you need 2? Yes, Austin stood up for his dad, but that was a FACT.

What did he do that determined games?--Jerry West



Nothing. I saw JJ win a game for us. ONCE. Garbage talker. You never won SHTTT for us.

We need to do MUCH better than this though. Why do we think that it is a good response to attack the person vs addressing their comments, it's so funny.

Imagine in the forum, all our responses were, "you never played in the NBA", "you never coached the NBA", "what were your stats", etc, we couldn't even have discussion.

Player makes a comment, "well you didn't win a championship", "well you weren't that good", :banghead: :banghead:

Austin missed the mark because he confused "accountability" and "being held accountable", those are actually not the same thing. But even if he addressed the right thing, of course we should expect him to support his dad, so nothing surprising there.

That said, this is literally just a personality trait of Doc, for better or worse. He's not unique in this, I have know people like that, it's just what it is. Austin should defend him because that's his dad. Pat Bev though just likes to talk, his original point about Doc saving Redick's career sounds like fan comments lol

One can get on JJ about the delivery, and that's a product of the environment, it happens to everyone, just like when you're having a discussion with people and either it's intense or everyone is having so much fun that they get so loud.

But the idea that by criticizing the players ability to play, one has refuted their point is one of the worst things about sports discourse in general, because it just doesn't make sense.
nickhx2
RealGM
Posts: 10,464
And1: 6,300
Joined: Feb 13, 2014

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2473 » by nickhx2 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:06 am

guys i literally can't hit a layup with greater than a 50% success rate, am i allowed to post on internet basketball forums or nah
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 10,891
And1: 3,902
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2474 » by esqtvd » Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:08 am

og15 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
JJ was a good player. Better than journeyman Austin, of course. But Austin was quite right that JJ was USELESS in the 4th quarter. Defensively a minus, and who needs a 3-point shooter when you need 2? Yes, Austin stood up for his dad, but that was a FACT.

What did he do that determined games?--Jerry West



Nothing. I saw JJ win a game for us. ONCE. Garbage talker. You never won SHTTT for us.

We need to do MUCH better than this though. Why do we think that it is a good response to attack the person vs addressing their comments, it's so funny.

Imagine in the forum, all our responses were, "you never played in the NBA", "you never coached the NBA", "what were your stats", etc, we couldn't even have discussion.

Player makes a comment, "well you didn't win a championship", "well you weren't that good", :banghead: :banghead:

Austin missed the mark because he confused "accountability" and "being held accountable", those are actually not the same thing. But even if he addressed the right thing, of course we should expect him to support his dad, so nothing surprising there.

That said, this is literally just a personality trait of Doc, for better or worse. He's not unique in this, I have know people like that, it's just what it is. Austin should defend him because that's his dad. Pat Bev though just likes to talk, his original point about Doc saving Redick's career sounds like fan comments lol

One can get on JJ about the delivery, and that's a product of the environment, it happens to everyone, just like when you're having a discussion with people and either it's intense or everyone is having so much fun that they get so loud.

But the idea that by criticizing the players ability to play, one has refuted their point is one of the worst things about sports discourse in general, because it just doesn't make sense.



I'm with The Logo, sorry.

"Well, obviously the game is completely different," West said. "The athletes are completely different. I know JJ a little bit, he's a very smart kid and everything. But tell me what his career looks like. What did he do that determined games? He averaged 12 PTS a game. Somewhere along the way numbers count."


And Barkley.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-we-got-idiots-fools-charles-barkley-seemingly-takes-shot-jj-reddick-analysts-defending-ja-morant


Hey, it was JJ who threw DOC under the bus. Doc never singled anybody out in all those failures. Never got personal.

And he wasn't just giving an opinion--JJ went off on Doc like a Vietnam flashback. Frankly, I think it's all theater. He's trying to make a name for himself and become a multimillion-dollar loudmouth like Stephen A. But I like Stephen A, who is alternately grating and gracious. JJ is not likeable or interesting, and going after Doc's character I think is unacceptably crossing over into the personal. MAYBE a stranger. But NOT a former co-worker. That's too personal to the point of being unprofessional. It was VENOMOUS.


JJ is hustling. Before that it was going after Larry Bird. And of course he called out Bob Cousy and his entire generation.

"Let's celebrate Bob Cousy in his era but you cannot compare pre-1980 with the modern NBA," the former player continued. "He was being guarded by plumbers and firemen."


I don't think JJ's gonna last in this business. He's already stepped on too many heads working his way up the ladder. He's just not that good to make it worth it.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
wco81
RealGM
Posts: 22,123
And1: 9,259
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
       

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2475 » by wco81 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:25 am

He's right about the old players though. Cousy didn't even have a left hand.
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 47,568
And1: 29,206
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2476 » by og15 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:08 am

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
JJ was a good player. Better than journeyman Austin, of course. But Austin was quite right that JJ was USELESS in the 4th quarter. Defensively a minus, and who needs a 3-point shooter when you need 2? Yes, Austin stood up for his dad, but that was a FACT.




Nothing. I saw JJ win a game for us. ONCE. Garbage talker. You never won SHTTT for us.

We need to do MUCH better than this though. Why do we think that it is a good response to attack the person vs addressing their comments, it's so funny.

Imagine in the forum, all our responses were, "you never played in the NBA", "you never coached the NBA", "what were your stats", etc, we couldn't even have discussion.

Player makes a comment, "well you didn't win a championship", "well you weren't that good", :banghead: :banghead:

Austin missed the mark because he confused "accountability" and "being held accountable", those are actually not the same thing. But even if he addressed the right thing, of course we should expect him to support his dad, so nothing surprising there.

That said, this is literally just a personality trait of Doc, for better or worse. He's not unique in this, I have know people like that, it's just what it is. Austin should defend him because that's his dad. Pat Bev though just likes to talk, his original point about Doc saving Redick's career sounds like fan comments lol

One can get on JJ about the delivery, and that's a product of the environment, it happens to everyone, just like when you're having a discussion with people and either it's intense or everyone is having so much fun that they get so loud.

But the idea that by criticizing the players ability to play, one has refuted their point is one of the worst things about sports discourse in general, because it just doesn't make sense.



I'm with The Logo, sorry.

"Well, obviously the game is completely different," West said. "The athletes are completely different. I know JJ a little bit, he's a very smart kid and everything. But tell me what his career looks like. What did he do that determined games? He averaged 12 PTS a game. Somewhere along the way numbers count."


And Barkley.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-we-got-idiots-fools-charles-barkley-seemingly-takes-shot-jj-reddick-analysts-defending-ja-morant


Hey, it was JJ who threw DOC under the bus. Doc never singled anybody out in all those failures. Never got personal.

And he wasn't just giving an opinion--JJ went off on Doc like a Vietnam flashback. Frankly, I think it's all theater. He's trying to make a name for himself and become a multimillion-dollar loudmouth like Stephen A. But I like Stephen A, who is alternately grating and gracious. JJ is not likeable or interesting, and going after Doc's character I think is unacceptably crossing over into the personal. MAYBE a stranger. But NOT a former co-worker. That's too personal to the point of being unprofessional. It was VENOMOUS.


JJ is hustling. Before that it was going after Larry Bird. And of course he called out Bob Cousy and his entire generation.

"Let's celebrate Bob Cousy in his era but you cannot compare pre-1980 with the modern NBA," the former player continued. "He was being guarded by plumbers and firemen."


I don't think JJ's gonna last in this business. He's already stepped on too many heads working his way up the ladder. He's just not that good to make it worth it.

Redick is already rich, he's going into media because he likes it, good for him. He's also never crying about what comes with the role, he understands it, so whatever, good for him.

Of course it's personal, he played for Doc for 4 years, and then saw how Doc talked about their group after he left them, which had all those guya, CP, Blake, Jamal, Redick, Barnes, all of them scratching their heads, like, what? How did we revise history?

It's just like it was personal when Jamal commented about Doc saying he never thought the team could win, or Blake as a Celtic saying not adjusting is Doc's thing, "no offense".

Not sure why citing Jerry West on a totally unrelated comment from has any bearing on this situation, but it's adding to my point. Instead of addressing the actual comments, we think just trying to find a personal attack is the good argument, but it's not.

In the context of what Redick was discussing, he wasn't wrong about Cousy, but in our age of splicing clips and removing any context (it's entertaining, so I get it), we will have this.

Doc called out Simmons, he's definitely said names. Of course we're comparing someone in a role as talk show participant in a situation where they are supposed to discuss players, coaches, etc.

It's just like Shaq and Jamal's comments when Doc was hired about living off his championship from years ago and blown series leads, etc. They've both played for him too, but just telling it as it is.

Doc is less likely to say specific names because he's still coaching, and he's not on First Take or those kinds of shows, lol. Of course he threw Lue under the bus about adjustments, "he was with me on the bench", right? Throwing a whole team and group under the bus vs a specific player is better how? Lol

Don't know why you go to bat for Doc so much as if you owe him something. Maybe just to be contrarian I guess, personality trait right :wink: . Can't help it, just like Doc can't help it :lol: :lol:
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 10,891
And1: 3,902
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2477 » by esqtvd » Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:44 am

og15 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:We need to do MUCH better than this though. Why do we think that it is a good response to attack the person vs addressing their comments, it's so funny.

Imagine in the forum, all our responses were, "you never played in the NBA", "you never coached the NBA", "what were your stats", etc, we couldn't even have discussion.

Player makes a comment, "well you didn't win a championship", "well you weren't that good", :banghead: :banghead:

Austin missed the mark because he confused "accountability" and "being held accountable", those are actually not the same thing. But even if he addressed the right thing, of course we should expect him to support his dad, so nothing surprising there.

That said, this is literally just a personality trait of Doc, for better or worse. He's not unique in this, I have know people like that, it's just what it is. Austin should defend him because that's his dad. Pat Bev though just likes to talk, his original point about Doc saving Redick's career sounds like fan comments lol

One can get on JJ about the delivery, and that's a product of the environment, it happens to everyone, just like when you're having a discussion with people and either it's intense or everyone is having so much fun that they get so loud.

But the idea that by criticizing the players ability to play, one has refuted their point is one of the worst things about sports discourse in general, because it just doesn't make sense.



I'm with The Logo, sorry.

"Well, obviously the game is completely different," West said. "The athletes are completely different. I know JJ a little bit, he's a very smart kid and everything. But tell me what his career looks like. What did he do that determined games? He averaged 12 PTS a game. Somewhere along the way numbers count."


And Barkley.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-we-got-idiots-fools-charles-barkley-seemingly-takes-shot-jj-reddick-analysts-defending-ja-morant


Hey, it was JJ who threw DOC under the bus. Doc never singled anybody out in all those failures. Never got personal.

And he wasn't just giving an opinion--JJ went off on Doc like a Vietnam flashback. Frankly, I think it's all theater. He's trying to make a name for himself and become a multimillion-dollar loudmouth like Stephen A. But I like Stephen A, who is alternately grating and gracious. JJ is not likeable or interesting, and going after Doc's character I think is unacceptably crossing over into the personal. MAYBE a stranger. But NOT a former co-worker. That's too personal to the point of being unprofessional. It was VENOMOUS.


JJ is hustling. Before that it was going after Larry Bird. And of course he called out Bob Cousy and his entire generation.

"Let's celebrate Bob Cousy in his era but you cannot compare pre-1980 with the modern NBA," the former player continued. "He was being guarded by plumbers and firemen."


I don't think JJ's gonna last in this business. He's already stepped on too many heads working his way up the ladder. He's just not that good to make it worth it.

Redick is already rich, he's going into media because he likes it, good for him. He's also never crying about what comes with the role, he understands it, so whatever, good for him.

Of course it's personal, he played for Doc for 4 years, and then saw how Doc talked about their group after he left them, which had all those guya, CP, Blake, Jamal, Redick, Barnes, all of them scratching their heads, like, what? How did we revise history?

It's just like it was personal when Jamal commented about Doc saying he never thought the team could win, or Blake as a Celtic saying not adjusting is Doc's thing, "no offense".

Not sure why citing Jerry West on a totally unrelated comment from has any bearing on this situation, but it's adding to my point. Instead of addressing the actual comments, we think just trying to find a personal attack is the good argument, but it's not.

In the context of what Redick was discussing, he wasn't wrong about Cousy, but in our age of splicing clips and removing any context (it's entertaining, so I get it), we will have this.

Doc called out Simmons, he's definitely said names. Of course we're comparing someone in a role as talk show participant in a situation where they are supposed to discuss players, coaches, etc.

It's just like Shaq and Jamal's comments when Doc was hired about living off his championship from years ago and blown series leads, etc. They've both played for him too, but just telling it as it is.

Doc is less likely to say specific names because he's still coaching, and he's not on First Take or those kinds of shows, lol. Of course he threw Lue under the bus about adjustments, "he was with me on the bench", right? Throwing a whole team and group under the bus vs a specific player is better how? Lol

Don't know why you go to bat for Doc so much as if you owe him something. Maybe just to be contrarian I guess, personality trait right :wink: . Can't help it, just like Doc can't help it :lol: :lol:



I call out injustice as I see it. Anybody is gonna defend themselves when they feel they are unfairly attacked. He's right about the personalities and egos of Lob City making it less than the sum its parts. Doc never went after KL & Pandemic P for the Bubble, or Harden choking like a dog last year and probably getting him fired in the offseason. [Simmons was a special case. Everybody hates him.]

And I don't think JJ is gonna last. I think this latest level of spitting vitriol is unprofessional and cheap theater. It's spiteful and over the line. JJ's gonna get his someday. He went after Larry Bird ffs.

Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 47,568
And1: 29,206
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2478 » by og15 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:05 am

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

I'm with The Logo, sorry.



And Barkley.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-we-got-idiots-fools-charles-barkley-seemingly-takes-shot-jj-reddick-analysts-defending-ja-morant


Hey, it was JJ who threw DOC under the bus. Doc never singled anybody out in all those failures. Never got personal.

And he wasn't just giving an opinion--JJ went off on Doc like a Vietnam flashback. Frankly, I think it's all theater. He's trying to make a name for himself and become a multimillion-dollar loudmouth like Stephen A. But I like Stephen A, who is alternately grating and gracious. JJ is not likeable or interesting, and going after Doc's character I think is unacceptably crossing over into the personal. MAYBE a stranger. But NOT a former co-worker. That's too personal to the point of being unprofessional. It was VENOMOUS.


JJ is hustling. Before that it was going after Larry Bird. And of course he called out Bob Cousy and his entire generation.



I don't think JJ's gonna last in this business. He's already stepped on too many heads working his way up the ladder. He's just not that good to make it worth it.

Redick is already rich, he's going into media because he likes it, good for him. He's also never crying about what comes with the role, he understands it, so whatever, good for him.

Of course it's personal, he played for Doc for 4 years, and then saw how Doc talked about their group after he left them, which had all those guya, CP, Blake, Jamal, Redick, Barnes, all of them scratching their heads, like, what? How did we revise history?

It's just like it was personal when Jamal commented about Doc saying he never thought the team could win, or Blake as a Celtic saying not adjusting is Doc's thing, "no offense".

Not sure why citing Jerry West on a totally unrelated comment from has any bearing on this situation, but it's adding to my point. Instead of addressing the actual comments, we think just trying to find a personal attack is the good argument, but it's not.

In the context of what Redick was discussing, he wasn't wrong about Cousy, but in our age of splicing clips and removing any context (it's entertaining, so I get it), we will have this.

Doc called out Simmons, he's definitely said names. Of course we're comparing someone in a role as talk show participant in a situation where they are supposed to discuss players, coaches, etc.

It's just like Shaq and Jamal's comments when Doc was hired about living off his championship from years ago and blown series leads, etc. They've both played for him too, but just telling it as it is.

Doc is less likely to say specific names because he's still coaching, and he's not on First Take or those kinds of shows, lol. Of course he threw Lue under the bus about adjustments, "he was with me on the bench", right? Throwing a whole team and group under the bus vs a specific player is better how? Lol

Don't know why you go to bat for Doc so much as if you owe him something. Maybe just to be contrarian I guess, personality trait right :wink: . Can't help it, just like Doc can't help it :lol: :lol:



I call out injustice as I see it. Anybody is gonna defend themselves when they feel they are unfairly attacked. He's right about the personalities and egos of Lob City making it less than the sum its parts. Doc never went after KL & Pandemic P for the Bubble, or Harden choking like a dog last year and probably getting him fired in the offseason. [Simmons was a special case. Everybody hates him.]

And I don't think JJ is gonna last. I think this latest level of spitting vitriol is unprofessional and cheap theater. It's spiteful and over the line. JJ's gonna get his someday. He went after Larry Bird ffs.


Lol, you keep posting stuff that is just proving the point and a sign of how terrible many people are at context.

JJ "went after Bird" by saying that he doesn't have the stats to be greatest 3PT shooter or all time (in a comparison to Curry), and that Mad Dog saying that physicality on the 80's puts Bird's 3PT shooting at a higher level, when the actual film and reality shows that in the 80's guys were barely even guarding the three. You can watch the clips of Bird's three's and it's open shots, and Mad Dog is trying to argue that Bird has it tougher shooting his three's because of the physicality of the 80's.

JJ gives the factually correct response and what people hear is something more like, "Bird sucks" or "there was no physicality in the 80's", when the guy is literally saying that 3PT shots were not more physical in the 80's which is a literal fact.

You've cited examples that all just prove my point about how people just respond to stuff without actually thinking about what is being said and context, but just emotional responses.
User avatar
esqtvd
RealGM
Posts: 10,891
And1: 3,902
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2479 » by esqtvd » Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:18 am

og15 wrote:Lol, you keep posting stuff that is just proving the point and a sign of how terrible many people are at context.

JJ "went after Bird" by saying that he doesn't have the stats to be greatest 3PT shooter or all time (in a comparison to Curry), and that Mad Dog saying that physicality on the 80's puts Bird's 3PT shooting at a higher level, when the actual film and reality shows that in the 80's guys were barely even guarding the three. You can watch the clips of Bird's three's and it's open shots, and Mad Dog is trying to argue that Bird has it tougher shooting his three's because of the physicality of the 80's.

JJ gives the factually correct response and what people hear is something more like, "Bird sucks" or "there was no physicality in the 80's", when the guy is literally saying that 3PT shots were not more physical in the 80's which is a literal fact.

You've cited examples that all just prove my point about how people just respond to stuff without actually thinking about what is being said and context, but just emotional responses.



Don't LOL @ me, OG. Just don't. That's not right. You're a moderator here and I don't have the freedom to smack you back. And I don't attack you back. I don't LOL my equals. :nod:

__________________________________

To return to topic: Actually, the Bird thing is just another small part of the toes JJ has stepped on while climbing for the top.


Irrelevant to the main point: JJ was vicious toward Doc and purely personal. It's simply uncalled for. Doc never did anything approaching this level, never said a bad word about JJ. You know the old saying about being careful who you step on, on the way up. JJ is ruthless, and he's gonna get his, just wait.


Michael Cooper: “J.J. Redick, who’s a journeyman, played for six different teams, all his accolades came in college,” Cooper said. “He played 15 years in the NBA, was being shifted around from team to team because all he could do was shoot, and he wasn’t that great of a shooter. He was a poor man’s Danny Ainge.”

“That guy has no clue of how basketball was played in the ’80s,” he said. “I guarantee you this, J.J. Redick, if you had played in the ’80s — this is Michael Cooper talking — I’d have locked your a** up. You wouldn’t have gotten a shot off, you would’ve gotten nothing off. You would’ve spent more time on the bench than on the floor when I was on the floor. You couldn’t have played when I was on the court.”


Michael Cooper. NBA class personified.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/03/01/larry-bird-jj-redick-michael-cooper-celtics-lakers/

_________________________

ADD: Joakim Noah too: GFY, JJ


"I saw a dude get a foul called just… he was hitting his homie like this, just messing with him. The ref called the foul. I'm like, no. This is crazy," the 2014 NBA Defensive Player of the Year quipped.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/joakim-noah-shares-why-he-no-longer-recognizes-nba-basketball-you-can-t-even-compare-the-eras-the-physicality/ar-BB1iJjxo?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ASTS&cvid=3529056d86ba4bc587ade0e78aeded78&ei=9
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 47,568
And1: 29,206
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#2480 » by og15 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:01 pm

Yup, again, Cooper went to "I'm better than you, you're not that good, and I can lock you up".

Remember earlier you said, Stephen A has class. Stephen A, "I never liked Blake Griffin, I am on record, the Clippers gave him an outrageous albatross of a contract". Guy has been saying stuff like that and similar and is thriving, and you're saying he has "class". Come on!

...did Cooper address the point? Nope. The point that Mad Dog made was that Bird's three's were more difficult than Curry's because of the physicality of the 80's. The undeniable reality is that in the 80's when teams were taking around 3-5 3PA/G total, guys weren't even guarding the 3PT line. Yes, Cooper could lock up Redick, but maybe he doesn't, who knows, the Spurs had Green and Kawhi and didn't lock up Redick in 14-15, just depends, but yes, 1v1 Cooper would lock up Redick, Redick has never claimed to be a good 1v1 player. Guy openly admits and talks about his shortcomings as a player, which is why it is hilarious when other NBA type guys respond with stuff like, "you're not that good" as if he's ever claimed he was.

Bird's three's were wide open and generally uncontested. So yes, an argument of physicality is not only untrue, it was nonsensical because Mad Dog was just trying to find anything to support his point. The 80's was more physical in the paint, sure, but what does that have to do with three's and who is a better 3PT shooter? Nothing!

---------------------

All of them are just falling for the same trap, attack how good the person is at basketball vs actually addressing their content, or respond to a strawman of what is being said. For example, DREAMSPORTSPRO was talking about JJ and then in his commentary says, "he (JJ) said Larry Bird couldn't shoot", is that what he said? Or did he say Larry Bird is not a better shooter than Curry. You see how this stuff actually goes?

It's like someone saying, "late 90's and early 00's offenses in general with some exceptions were bad and spacing was horrible", and you retort with, "oh so you're saying there were no good offenses at all", "oh how do they know, they didn't even play then, they would never be able to survive that era". It's like, okay? So what does that have to do with anything?

------------------

I don't care about JJ stepping on people because they can't address actual points, that's his own problem, and he knew that coming into this media world. I'm not disagreeing that he is stepping on people, I'm simply saying that the responses to what he's saying are at times not even in line with the discussion.

Maybe he thought he could come in and bring in a world of nuanced discussion and all that stuff, but that's not reality, and that's simply not what people want. It's not limited to sports, people (majority) don't ACTUALLY want nuanced discussion and all that, they want the hot takes, they want drama, they want sound bytes out of context, they want reactions and responses. Basketball for the vast majority of people is ENTERTAINMENT, something that a lot of RealGM, more hardcore fans also still don't get. JJ is also seemingly trying to fight a losing battle against the fact that people don't really care about a lot of the nuance, they just want entertainment, so he keeps attacking stuff that doesn't have nuance like discussions about eras and the actual nuances of physicality in this era vs that, and all this stuff.

If he doesn't make it, sucks for him, but he's already rich and he's managed his money well. He's not in it to make a living, so I'm not going to feel bad for him or something. He's doing his thing and so far he's successful enough, good for him. His wife did tell him not to yell anymore after that Doc rant, but that might be a struggle being on a show with Stephen A.

------------------

Blake on Doc:
https://youtube.com/shorts/7faFDiKpJAo?si=2f4DXJb7w1DB7-eX
"Obviously Doc make that game plan, they didn't adjust, which has been sort of a thing, no disrespect though"

Jamal on Doc:
"We would have never come out and said 'it's Doc fault that we lost', we're not saying that, but we at least all come together as far as why we lost, and everybody kind of owning their **** of why we lost".


That is the accountability that JJ is talking about, and all the Clippers guys have agreed about that in regards to Doc. Jamal is one of the most mild mannered guys you'll find


Rasheed Wallace:
"Doc Rivers can't adjust", "You gotta be more than a locker room manager"

Shaq: "Doc has championship experience, I hope they get along, but Doc has blown a lot of 3-1, 3-2 leads, and he's living off his championship from, what, 2009?"

Jamal: "Doc is a great coach, well in that first year"


Yes, it's somewhat personal because all the guys that were part of Lob City, they've talked, they've owned up to their faults and what they did wrong, and what they could have done better. They do that, but then Doc, every time he talks about the team, he never owns up to doing anything wrong, and it's all about how the circumstances were hard and the players didn't do this or that, didn't get along, etc, and then revising history. It's not just JJ, all the guys feel this, except for probably Austin for obvious reasons, and of course since Doc did help save his career. If everyone who was with you then feels it, then it's not just imaginary, it's not just some JJ vendetta.

Return to Los Angeles Clippers