Transaction Discussion Part 4 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

[Kelphus]

Already under contract for next season:

Kawhi
George
Marcus Morris
Norman Powell
Kennard
Jackson
Zubac
Batum
Mann
Preston
Boston

Need to contract for next season:
Hartenstein
Covington
Coffey
Backup Point Guard

Let go:
Hood, Preston,

Cap problems - Covington is going to be moderately expensive. Hartenstein earned a raise (a big one), and where is the money for backup point guard?

Am guessing some posters will say dump Morris, others will say Jackson. I say Kennard. I don't think he earned his salary, 3-point percentage notwithstanding. He wasn't REGULARLY a factor, so how does he earn almost 14 million next year?

[Clemenza]

We need a point guard in the worst way possible and you want to let go of Preston? I think he might have the inside track on the backup point position next season if he looks promising in summer league.

Team wise everything has been setup for the entire roster to surround and play off of Kawhi & PG. That's the reason why Reggie, Morris, Batum, etc are still on team and get heavy minutes. Its because they're supposed to help our stars but with no stars playing we're just spinning our wheels. If there's no PG or Kawhi to wait for in return these vets are out the door and the youngsters get minutes. So next season is shaping up as a do or die scenario for our dynamic duo to stay healthy and produce or else there's really no need to have half of these guys still on the roster imo. Losing these play in games with old players getting 40+ minutes until they're exhausted really doesn't do anything for us in the long run especially in the way of development.

-get the status of Kawhi and PG early
-draft a point guard in the 2nd round and find out who's better between him and Preston
-not sure if Norm Powell fits on the roster if Kawhi & PG are healthy
-Open up a solid lane for Kennard and Boston on the second unit. I really don't want to see them buried behind older vets next season--Buy another 2nd rounder like how Ballmer usually does and draft a big. Hart looked shook when the lights were bright
-I take it Coffey, Hart, and RoCo might be on new teams next season
-See what the team can get for Morris and maybe even Powell
-Find TMann's confidence on offense again somehow. I was hoping he'd give us at least ten points last night but he wanted no parts of shooting the ball

[esqtvd]

OK, Whining is over

LOL--not as long as Doc Rivers lives. Or his son---Ty Lue. The Blame Game never ends. It's always coach's fault: If only he'd have played the G-Leaguer. THEN we would have won.

Nice try though. Mr. K.

What are priorities for next year

Migrated here away from the noise and whining on the other thread:

Yeah, the injury thing makes Brogdon a rough idea. The major level guy I want us to be in play for is Terry Rozier, who I think will be on the block. TMann and Mook are borderline enough to get it done. Doing something like that would basically give us two guys--Powell and Rozier--at the salary of one SuperMax player.

Time to start talking about upgrading from the board sacred cow. The elephant in the room is at the 5. It's not that he's bad but he is what he is. And his playoff stats are bad. In fact, in the infamous 3-1 choke to Joker and the Nugs, he was far worse than Trezz [who was having a breakdown!].


https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-western-conference-semifinals-nuggets-vs-clippers.html

Unless you're getting a star C, you generally just need serviceable ones and other players that allow you to go smaller.

Why sneak a Harrell vs Zubac debate into this with the aim to prop up Harrell? Couldn't help it?

In the three final loses, the team was +5, +11 and -10 with Zubac on the court and -9, -19 and -8 with Harrell on the court.

For the whole series, the team was only positive with Harrell on the court in game 1, with Zubac it was 5/7 games. Of course there are other factors that play into that, but that series does not in any way condemn Zubac or suggest Harrell was better. They played similar minutes and both got time with some similar lineups. Harrell was not better with the lineups that Zubac primarily played with in that series either.

What's the evaluation metric for "far worse" in this one? Harrell had more ppg and a higher FG%, we already knew Harrell scored better, but he was worse at just about everything else.

Harrell couldn't grab a rebound in the series (2.6 in 19 mpg), Zubac averaged 7.3 in 24.5 mpg. Eye test and stats said Zubac's minutes were more positive for the team and that he defended Jokic better.

Zubac is a big body who does well in the right matchups and makes below league average salary. This means that you feel no remorse to bench him when needed and no pressure to play him big minutes when he's a below MLE contract player. Upgrading C would be nice, but it's well below upgrading for a playmaker guard.

If the Clippers could get a guy like Myles Turner who can give you 28-30 mins and makes $18 million, okay, fine, but most options (which will be non rookie contract players) that will give you enough of an improvement would simply be much too expensive.

Not about Harrell--that ship has sailed. But the narrative that we lost because of Trezz lives on--and it's bullsh*it. Despite his mental health issues, he was still our 3rd leading scorer in that series and high scorer in the Game 7 humiliation. According to Basketball Reference, his Off/Def Rtg was a surprising 117-111.

FTR: He was bad and Doc cut his minutes to 19.1--BOTH Zubac AND JaMychal Green played more minutes in that series!!

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-western-conference-semifinals-nuggets-vs-clippers.html
____________________________


No--this is about a long-overdue inspection of Zu's playoff record. In that series Zu was given as many minutes as he could physically handle--and he's always been a first-half wonder statwise. In 24.5 mpg he put up a very middling 7.3 and 7.3 and according to Basketball Reference, his Off/Def Rtg was 105-112. Last year's playoff stats under Ty were about the same per 36, but cut to 17 mpg.

And he was unproductive in the play-in losses this year. It shouldn't be controversial to say we should look at an upgrade...?

[esqtvd]

Clippers free agency targets in 2022

[excerpts]
https://clutchpoints.com/3-early-targets-for-clippers-in-2022-nba-free-agency/


1. Jusuf Nurkic – C, Blazers

Jusuf Nurkic figures to be one of the most tantalizing unrestricted free agents on the market this offseason. There’s always a chance he re-signs with the Blazers, but if the Clippers come calling, he’d surely have to consider. Injuries have slowed him down the past few years, but when healthy, he’s an extremely productive big man, capable of scoring at all three levels. This season across 56 games, Nurkic averaged 15 points, 11.1 rebounds, and 2.3 assists. He’s not a great interior defender, but he’s a proven rebounder capable of pulling down boards against the toughest of foes.

There will certainly be competition for Nurkic this offseason, and the move to acquire him would only truly make sense if the Clippers walked away from Zubac, but adding the 27-year-old to the mix could significantly boost the team ahead of their push for an NBA championship.


2. Chris Boucher – PF/C, Raptors

Boucher has transitioned to more of a power forward role this year, and with it his block numbers have reduced. But when primarily a center in 2020-21, Boucher averaged 13.6 points, 6.7 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks per game while shooting 38.3% from 3-point range.

With his contract expiring in Toronto, the Clippers could well be intrigued by his tall stature combined with his ability to score at multiple levels.


3. Collin Sexton – PG, Cavaliers

The Cavaliers will have a decision to make regarding Sexton’s future in Cleveland. With the emergence of Darius Garland as the clear-cut star, Sexton may find himself the odd man out and could be allowed to leave in restricted free agency.

Across 60 games in 2020-21, Sexton averaged 24.3 points, 4.4 assists, and 3.1 rebounds. He shot 37.1% from 3-point range, hitting 1.6 per game. At 23, the Clippers could land a talented piece for the present and future if they make a move to poach him from the Cavs in restricted free agency.

[KL2]

I’m not expecting big changes. Listening to the comments from Frank, Lue, and some of the players it sounds like they know how different things are when you have Leonard and George back and healthy. I’ll be interested in the exit interviews to see if tones changed at all though.

Would love to keep RoCo and Hart.

Morris can go. He’s not good for my blood pressure.

I’m over the Mann experience too. This season was the perfect opportunity for him to take the next step and instead he regressed.

I don’t see room for Coffey on here. Not unless some other wings are out the door.

I think Preston gets a shot for the backup pg minutes. They seem high on him. SL will be huge for him obviously.

[TrueLAfan]

I've merged this thread with a "new" transaction discussion thread for the offseason--thanks to Kelphus for starting it; hope it's cool that I decided to just make it the lead off for the stickied transaction thread.

Regarding Zu—he’s valuable in the same way that’s he’s limited. There is a slow comeback of “traditional” 5s, but it will never be what it once was. Still, there’s value in a rim protecting, excellent rebounding 5. In both regular and post-season, Zu is a 3.5 block percentage, 18.3 rebound percentage guy. Those are very good numbers. But he can’t guard small Cs well, doesn’t shoot threes and spread the court, and is a mediocre passer. Zu is good at what he does, but it isn't always best for the team to have him out there. There are times when he’s both useful and valuable, and times when he’s largely superfluous. But I don’t want to get rid of Zu; I’d rather complement him with a PF/C that can do the things he can’t. That’s our #2 need.

#1 is the PG (position, not Paul George) problem. I’d rather solve this via trade with the player who isn’t the solution at the 4. Mook had a very good season on paper, and would actually be a really valuable player on a team that had rebounding but lacked scoring, veteran presence, and identity. So there’s a market for Mook.

Unfortunately—and this is sad for all the right reasons—we’ve got too many guards; shooting guards to be precise. Powell, Luke, Reggie, Mann and Coffey are all best at SG. PG and Boston spend time there as well. We’ve got talent there that can be swapped out for things/areas we need more help in.

We might, however, have a cheap option that could come up big—a player I mentioned last year. My #1 FA target is …. Delon Wright. He was in Atlanta this year, and it was a terrible fit (which I predicted, btw). They’re a usage led offense; their primary scorer is also their primary passer. Everyone’s looking to shoot and not play so much defense. That’s their system. Wright is a pass first, defensive minded PG. He took three and half shots a game coming off the bench; barely a shot every five minutes. That’s a guy who doesn’t have the green light to score. And yet—he remained a very efficient shooter. That, combined with his usual good passing (about 5 assists per 36—low for him, but still fine) and terrific ball handling and ball protection (A/TO of over 4 to 1 this year) and stellar D meant that he had very solid on /off numbers. He’s about to turn 30, so he’s in his prime. He doesn’t miss games. He’s played good minutes and played well for mostly good teams. I’d sign him as fast as possible, and 100% expect him to do what he’s always done—play great D, shoot well and spread the court, score enough to keep teams honest, run the offense, and win. That’s my initial salvo here.

[Clemenza]

I've merged this thread with a "new" transaction discussion thread for the offseason--thanks to Kelphus for starting it; hope it's cool that I decided to just make it the lead off for the stickied transaction thread.

Regarding Zu—he’s valuable in the same way that’s he’s limited. There is a slow comeback of “traditional” 5s, but it will never be what it once was. Still, there’s value in a rim protecting, excellent rebounding 5. In both regular and post-season, Zu is a 3.5 block percentage, 18.3 rebound percetnage guy. Those are very good numbers. But he can’t guard small Cs well, doesn’t shoot threes and spread the court, and is a mediocre passer. Zu is good at what he does, but it isn't always best for the team to have him out there. There are times when he’s both useful and valuable, and times when he’s largely superfluous. But I don’t want to get rid of Zu; I’d rather complement him with a PF/C that can do the things he can’t. That’s our #2 need.

#1 is the PG (position, not Paul George) problem. I’d rather solve this via trade with the player who isn’t the solution at the 4. Mook had a very good season on paper, and would actually be a really valuable player on a team that had rebounding but lacked scoring, veteran presence, and identity. So there’s a market for Mook.

Unfortunately—and this is sad for all the right reasons—we’ve got too many guards; shooting guards to be precise. Powell, Luke, Reggie, Mann and Coffey are all best at SG. PG and Boston spend time there as well. We’ve got talent there that can be swapped out for things/areas we need more help in.

We might, however, had a cheap option that could come up big—a player I mentioned last year. My #1 FA target is …. Delon Wright. He was in Atlanta this year, and it was a terrible fit (which I predicted, btw). They’re a usage led offense; their primary scorer is also their primary passer. Everyone’s looking to shoot and not play so much defense. That’s their system. Wright is a pass first, defensive minded PG. He took three and half shots a game coming off the bench; barely a shot every five minutes. That’s a guy who doesn’t have the green light to score. And yet—he remained a very efficient shooter. That, combined with his usual good passing (about 5 assists per 36—low for him, but still fine) and terrific ball handling and ball protection (A/TO of over 4 to 1 this year) and stellar D meant that he had very solid on /off numbers. He’s about to turn 30, so he’s in his prime. He doesn’t miss games. He’s played good minutes and played well for mostly good teams. I’d sign him as fast as possible, and 100% expect him to do what he’s always done—play great D, shoot well and spread the court, score enough to keep teams honest, run the offense, and win. That’s my initial salvo here.

Sticky threads around here die a quick death. I would've left this the way it was so people can actually see the thread and respond. Just my opinion

[Captain Ballmer]

I've merged this thread with a "new" transaction discussion thread for the offseason--thanks to Kelphus for starting it; hope it's cool that I decided to just make it the lead off for the stickied transaction thread.

Regarding Zu—he’s valuable in the same way that’s he’s limited. There is a slow comeback of “traditional” 5s, but it will never be what it once was. Still, there’s value in a rim protecting, excellent rebounding 5. In both regular and post-season, Zu is a 3.5 block percentage, 18.3 rebound percentage guy. Those are very good numbers. But he can’t guard small Cs well, doesn’t shoot threes and spread the court, and is a mediocre passer. Zu is good at what he does, but it isn't always best for the team to have him out there. There are times when he’s both useful and valuable, and times when he’s largely superfluous. But I don’t want to get rid of Zu; I’d rather complement him with a PF/C that can do the things he can’t. That’s our #2 need.

#1 is the PG (position, not Paul George) problem. I’d rather solve this via trade with the player who isn’t the solution at the 4. Mook had a very good season on paper, and would actually be a really valuable player on a team that had rebounding but lacked scoring, veteran presence, and identity. So there’s a market for Mook.

Unfortunately—and this is sad for all the right reasons—we’ve got too many guards; shooting guards to be precise. Powell, Luke, Reggie, Mann and Coffey are all best at SG. PG and Boston spend time there as well. We’ve got talent there that can be swapped out for things/areas we need more help in.

We might, however, had a cheap option that could come up big—a player I mentioned last year. My #1 FA target is …. Delon Wright. He was in Atlanta this year, and it was a terrible fit (which I predicted, btw). They’re a usage led offense; their primary scorer is also their primary passer. Everyone’s looking to shoot and not play so much defense. That’s their system. Wright is a pass first, defensive minded PG. He took three and half shots a game coming off the bench; barely a shot every five minutes. That’s a guy who doesn’t have the green light to score. And yet—he remained a very efficient shooter. That, combined with his usual good passing (about 5 assists per 36—low for him, but still fine) and terrific ball handling and ball protection (A/TO of over 4 to 1 this year) and stellar D meant that he had very solid on /off numbers. He’s about to turn 30, so he’s in his prime. He doesn’t miss games. He’s played good minutes and played well for mostly good teams. I’d sign him as fast as possible, and 100% expect him to do what he’s always done—play great D, shoot well and spread the court, score enough to keep teams honest, run the offense, and win. That’s my initial salvo here.

I agree with the needs but in different order. #1 is small ball 5 to back up Zu. #2 is the backup PG.

Our Plan A is Zu obviously, However Plan B is going away from Zu and put some wings to cover 5. We called this "Small Ball 5" without any semblence of big man, and overrelying Kawhi&PG to help rebounding. This is bad outcome considering their tanks burns faster with age. Finally, when one of them or both out all world falls apart very quickly at the first sing of aggression from opponents. For example If we had L.Nance type real 4-5 to backup Zu we would have won much more the 42 games at the beginning to stay away from play-in.

For the PG need, I think we think that way because we lacked tons of juice for rim pressure. Once we have Kawhi-PG13-Norm and Reggie all healthy we will have all the juice more than enough. For that reason i have this need on #2.

[og15]

In terms of point guards, I think some realistic options would be:

Free Agents:

Tyus Jones - Memphis played really well without Durant with a good amount of credit to him. He can shoot, pass, takes care of the ball and scores decently enough. If Reggie is planned to be made 6th man, he could even get a starting opportunity. He'll be Kawhi's Van Vleet.

Dennis Schroder - Mediocre, but beggars also can't be choosers, if no better options arise, he's at least a guy you can fill in as needed

Free Agent/Trade:

Brunson/Dinwiddie (less realistic): I don't believe Dallas wants to lose either, but Dallas will be in a position where they have to decide whether they will give Brunson big money. They might not want to pay so much for multiple guards. I don't know if the Clippers would have the assets they want, but there are options if it turned out that way.

Trade:

Malcolm Brogdon - He is on the block, I like him as a player when he plays, but his contract and availability are a lot for this team to take on, so while it could work, I don't think the Clippers would, or should do it just because of his injury history.

Good list. I'd love to get Tyus Jones, but the farther they go in the playoffs, the less realistic that will be. But, hey, if Minny bounces them in the first, great!

Same with Jalen Brunson, who I think would be a perfect fit. (Keeps the family tradition here alive too.) Dinwiddie has played great since he got to Dallas, and he played well for a while in Brooklyn. He's also had some bad stretches. If he can keep hsotting the long ball anything like he has with the Mavs, he'd be a good pickup--not as good as one other player I'd like, but good.

Brogdon is taking a chance. Big chance. I'm against it because I think the narrative about him is a little off. The narrative is that he's a great player that has had injuries in recent years. Actually, he's never played 2000 mintues in a season in his career--and that is a big, big red flag. The injuries are the norm for him. He's a terrific player when he's healthy--but he never plays and his extension is long.

The one player at the same salary level as Dinwiddie/Brogdon that I think might be available is Terry Rozier. It's going to be LaMelo's team, and they've got plenty of scoring to go with him with Bridges, Hayward, and Oubre. Where they need some help is a veteran, spread the court 4/5, and some defense from the 2 position. I'd offer Mook and Mann and cross my fingers, big time.

[Bobbymcgee]

I agree with the need for a point guard. I don't think the young guys work because Lue is just going to play Reggie 40+ minutes come playoff time anyway. So, I think it would be better for the Clippers to acquire a proven point guard via trade or free agency.

Clippers also need to get more athletic and younger at the power forward position. Morris playing major minutes there isn't cutting it.

[ejftw]

Think Morris for Dinwiddie could have real traction this summer....Texas Chuck on the T&T board was willing to do Kleber and the Mavs first for Morris, but don't think the Dallas FO would agree with such a proposal, but if they do, it's an easy snag for us as Kleber can be our small ball five and the pick could give us a small chance at Brogdon (though, would need to figure out how to make $$s work)

No way we let go of Preston without being able to see him but a backup PG option I wouldn't mind us swinging on is Nico Mannion.

[esqtvd]

Regarding Zu—he’s valuable in the same way that’s he’s limited. There is a slow comeback of “traditional” 5s, but it will never be what it once was. Still, there’s value in a rim protecting, excellent rebounding 5. In both regular and post-season, Zu is a 3.5 block percentage, 18.3 rebound percentage guy. Those are very good numbers. But he can’t guard small Cs well, doesn’t shoot threes and spread the court, and is a mediocre passer. Zu is good at what he does, but it isn't always best for the team to have him out there. There are times when he’s both useful and valuable, and times when he’s largely superfluous. But I don’t want to get rid of Zu; I’d rather complement him with a PF/C that can do the things he can’t. That’s our #2 need.

Part of a sign & trade. A combo 4/5 as a backup is almost always a guy who can't play either one, like JaMychal Green. They have attractive stats because smart coaches limit their minutes to when they match up with similarly limited opps.

The alarm about Zu is that although he's an adequate minutes-filler in the regular season, he is demonstrably of little or no help in the playoffs. He does not move the needle--and that's what wins playoff games.

[og15]

I agree with the need for a point guard. I don't think the young guys work because Lue is just going to play Reggie 40+ minutes come playoff time anyway. So, I think it would be better for the Clippers to acquire a proven point guard via trade or free agency.

Clippers also need to get more athletic and younger at the power forward position. Morris playing major minutes there isn't cutting it.

Well, remember that if you have Kahwi and George, the need for a playmaker and ball handler changes, so if you have those two, Mann being on the court with them is less of a concern, and Reggie can be kept in the 28-30 mpg range.

Also even if he was playing big minutes next to those two, his usage and requirements would be much lower, so his fatigue would be lower.

Regardless of that, with all the guards on the team, it still makes sense to try and swap one for a playmaker at PG if possible, even someone who can relieve PG and Kawhi of those duties when on the court with them

[og15]

Regarding Zu—he’s valuable in the same way that’s he’s limited. There is a slow comeback of “traditional” 5s, but it will never be what it once was. Still, there’s value in a rim protecting, excellent rebounding 5. In both regular and post-season, Zu is a 3.5 block percentage, 18.3 rebound percentage guy. Those are very good numbers. But he can’t guard small Cs well, doesn’t shoot threes and spread the court, and is a mediocre passer. Zu is good at what he does, but it isn't always best for the team to have him out there. There are times when he’s both useful and valuable, and times when he’s largely superfluous. But I don’t want to get rid of Zu; I’d rather complement him with a PF/C that can do the things he can’t. That’s our #2 need.

Part of a sign & trade. A combo 4/5 as a backup is almost always a guy who can't play either one, like JaMychal Green. They have attractive stats because smart coaches limit their minutes to when they match up with similarly limited opps.

The alarm about Zu is that although he's an adequate minutes-filler in the regular season, he is demonstrably of little or no help in the playoffs. He does not move the needle--and that's what wins playoff games.

I'd say there are two types of players you need in the playoffs. First are true impact players, and then second are rotation guys / guys that can fill in the right roles without hurting you, but you still need them there, and sometimes will help you more. Zu is the later type of player, those players are useful, because the alternative can be guys who try to do too much and hurt your as much as they help or guys who are extremely limited on one end or the other.

The NBA sets up the salary cap that rarely is a team going to have impact players at every position. This means you will play serviceable guys who can give you that little help or just not harm you. The Bucks had Connaughton and Portis last season who have them, "just" 8.8 and 6.9 ppg in the playoffs, but hit outside shots, grabbed rebounds and defended.

Phoenix in part lost to Milwaukee because when Ayton came off the court they were devoid of any big men with size to rebound and protect the paint. They went and got McGee and Biyombo in the off-season, guys that don't move the needle, but guys that can prevent you from going backwards in a specific series. Both can use enough minutes without hurting you, while Saric (who got injured and have them fewer options) and Kaminsky can be more selective in usage since neither is super mobile or a rim protector.

Zu has helped in the playoffs, in the right matchup. We forget because he got injured, but Zubac was actually very good in the Phoenix series. He averaged 13/11 and was playing 31 mpg, those games weren't as close as they were without him. He was very good containing Paul in the mid range and didn't get abused like many bigs would. Clippers either need a guy you can always start which will cost something to get and might not be available, or a bigger small ball 5 so you play Zu and another guy by committee based on what matchup works best.

[esqtvd]

Regarding Zu—he’s valuable in the same way that’s he’s limited. There is a slow comeback of “traditional” 5s, but it will never be what it once was. Still, there’s value in a rim protecting, excellent rebounding 5. In both regular and post-season, Zu is a 3.5 block percentage, 18.3 rebound percentage guy. Those are very good numbers. But he can’t guard small Cs well, doesn’t shoot threes and spread the court, and is a mediocre passer. Zu is good at what he does, but it isn't always best for the team to have him out there. There are times when he’s both useful and valuable, and times when he’s largely superfluous. But I don’t want to get rid of Zu; I’d rather complement him with a PF/C that can do the things he can’t. That’s our #2 need.

Part of a sign & trade. A combo 4/5 as a backup is almost always a guy who can't play either one, like JaMychal Green. They have attractive stats because smart coaches limit their minutes to when they match up with similarly limited opps.

The alarm about Zu is that although he's an adequate minutes-filler in the regular season, he is demonstrably of little or no help in the playoffs. He does not move the needle--and that's what wins playoff games.

I'd say there are two types of players you need in the playoffs. First are true impact players, and then second are rotation guys / guys that can fill in the right roles without hurting you, but you still need them there, and sometimes will help you more. Zu is the later type of player, those players are useful, because the alternative can be guys who try to do too much and hurt your as much as they help or guys who are extremely limited on one end or the other.

The NBA sets up the salary cap that rarely is a team going to have impact players at every position. This means you will play serviceable guys who can give you that little help or just not harm you. The Bucks had Connaughton and Portis last season who have them, "just" 8.8 and 6.9 ppg in the playoffs, but hit outside shots, grabbed rebounds and defended.

Phoenix in part lost to Milwaukee because when Ayton came off the court they were devoid of any big men with size to rebound and protect the paint. They went and got McGee and Biyombo in the off-season, guys that don't move the needle, but guys that can prevent you from going backwards in a specific series. Both can use enough minutes without hurting you, while Saric (who got injured and have them fewer options) and Kaminsky can be more selective in usage since neither is super mobile or a rim protector.

Zu has helped in the playoffs, in the right matchup. We forget because he got injured, but Zubac was actually very good in the Phoenix series. He averaged 13/11 and was playing 31 mpg, those games weren't as close as they were without him. He was very good containing Paul in the mid range and didn't get abused like many bigs would. Clippers either need a guy you can always start which will cost something to get and might not be available, or a bigger small ball 5 so you play Zu and another guy by committee based on what matchup works best.

By your own argument, when matchups don't make him unplayable, Zu is serviceable at best and will still bleed points against any of the good ones. I agree he's better than nothing, but that's weak tea. Perhaps the sal cap won't permit it, but the FO should look for an upgrade who can move the needle now and then. Hell, Drummond played for the minimum this year and Biyombo was a buyout. Trad 5s are as common as dirt and barely as useful.

[esqtvd]

comments are far from unanimous

Read on Twitter

[TrueLAfan]

For me, the big question with Zu is value, as in--is he worth what we're paying? I’ve heard that Mitchell Robinson’s value is around the MLE. I personally think Robinson is kind of a meathead, but he’s a valuable basketball player so I guess that’s about right—and I think the difference in value and impact between him and Zu is pretty negligible. The team option for Zu is $7.6 million in 2022-3, and I think that makes him, relatively speaking, underpaid. I’m down with upgrading—if we were to move Mook and use most or all of his salary on a better C, and move Zu and use his salary and whatever was left from it on a PF, we might be better. But I’m not sure if that would be addition by subtraction because of Mook. Anyway, Zu interest and value to me is as a pretty good player on a good contract—which also makes him tradeable. If we find something better, great. If we keep him, great.


Mook, OTOH, doesn’t fit in with us. I am so glad we got Covington because, in a lot of ways, he’s what Mook once was and what we really need now—a SF/PF that could play spot minutes as C. That Covington to a T—he can stay with the biggest SFs--I’d actually have no problem slapping Covington on Durant, for instance—not that he’d stop him or anything, but RoCo, with that wingspan and grit, would do as good of a job on KD as anybody--but spend more time at the 4. He’s just a valuable 26-30 mpg player--with a few minutes at the 5 in certain matchups. As Mook has gotten older, he’s played more at the 5—to his detriment. He gets pushed by bigger player and rebounds like a guard. He should stay at the 4. but why, when we’ve got Covington? Covington has largely been injury free—was injured one year, and has otherwise played in about 90% of his team’s games since his second season. Good enough shooter and scorer, excellent defender, very good rebounder—what else do we need? If we can sign him for MLE money and move Mook, we save $4 million. To have a better player. And that’s why we move Mook. Whether it’s for a PG or a 4/5 doesn’t matter as much to me.

[og15]

Part of a sign & trade. A combo 4/5 as a backup is almost always a guy who can't play either one, like JaMychal Green. They have attractive stats because smart coaches limit their minutes to when they match up with similarly limited opps.

The alarm about Zu is that although he's an adequate minutes-filler in the regular season, he is demonstrably of little or no help in the playoffs. He does not move the needle--and that's what wins playoff games.

I'd say there are two types of players you need in the playoffs. First are true impact players, and then second are rotation guys / guys that can fill in the right roles without hurting you, but you still need them there, and sometimes will help you more. Zu is the later type of player, those players are useful, because the alternative can be guys who try to do too much and hurt your as much as they help or guys who are extremely limited on one end or the other.

The NBA sets up the salary cap that rarely is a team going to have impact players at every position. This means you will play serviceable guys who can give you that little help or just not harm you. The Bucks had Connaughton and Portis last season who have them, "just" 8.8 and 6.9 ppg in the playoffs, but hit outside shots, grabbed rebounds and defended.

Phoenix in part lost to Milwaukee because when Ayton came off the court they were devoid of any big men with size to rebound and protect the paint. They went and got McGee and Biyombo in the off-season, guys that don't move the needle, but guys that can prevent you from going backwards in a specific series. Both can use enough minutes without hurting you, while Saric (who got injured and have them fewer options) and Kaminsky can be more selective in usage since neither is super mobile or a rim protector.

Zu has helped in the playoffs, in the right matchup. We forget because he got injured, but Zubac was actually very good in the Phoenix series. He averaged 13/11 and was playing 31 mpg, those games weren't as close as they were without him. He was very good containing Paul in the mid range and didn't get abused like many bigs would. Clippers either need a guy you can always start which will cost something to get and might not be available, or a bigger small ball 5 so you play Zu and another guy by committee based on what matchup works best.

By your own argument, when matchups don't make him unplayable, Zu is serviceable at best and will still bleed points against any of the good ones. I agree he's better than nothing, but that's weak tea. Perhaps the sal cap won't permit it, but the FO should look for an upgrade who can move the needle now and then. Hell, Drummond played for the minimum this year and Biyombo was a buyout. Trad 5s are as common as dirt and barely as useful.

I didn't say this part, lol. I don't believe Zu gives up more to good C's than the average C, bleeding points to me would be if he got scored on more than others would. I don't think Zu can match those guys, which he shouldn't, but I never expect role players to match stars.

When the matchup works he can be solid, when it doesn’t, you remember that there's a reason he only makes $7-8 million and below MLE. Drummond just came off a couple of years with $25+ million, so he definitely was more agreeable to lower contracts. He's still trying to convince people that he won't be a negative by trying to do too much on offense though, so he's also trying to prove himself. Biyombo is a nice backup, got a smaller contract than he might have since he basically pulled himself out of free agency for bereavement. He's a solid C by committee guy, his main downside in his role is that he is a smaller C size wise (not length).

Upgrading from a decent C in the NBA these days is generally going to be a situation where for the most part you have to get a REAL good one to have enough of an upgrade. 100% I would want an upgrade if possible, but C to me has become a position where if the player isn't a star, you're usually better off just getting multiple lower cost options and spending more money somewhere else. So unless there's a great deal, I would rather focus on using the assets to improve other things.

I think guys like Biyombo and McGee can be looked at in the off-season to add to the committee of C's, I think Turner is a solid option to pursue if there's a price that Indiana would take and doesn't hamper other things for the Clippers.

[ejftw]

With the news that Koloko has put his name in the draft, I'd love to find a way to get into the late teens and snag him, truly believe he's going to be a quality starting C for years to come in the association.

But man, imagine if Fondu or Oturu had developed properly....life would be beautiful.

[nickhx2]

get me the next bam, ASAP, BOARD