Game #5: LAC (3-1) @ LAL (2-2) WED 11/1 7PM—ESPN

[nickhx2]

Guys this one is one me. I turned the game on about 3 times last night only to watch the Clippers bleed lead every single time- It started with the 37-18 lead and 2 quick Laker 3's, and my last watch I saw the Lakers take their first lead since 2-0.

My +/- was probably -30 last night.

back in the REALLY bad clipper days i used to feel like i needed to watch every game so i could provide the team my spiritual energy and churn out a win

it just now strikes me that perhaps it was PRECISELY due to me watching so many games, that my energy actually was causing us to lose, rather than win

[nickhx2]

As far as the game itself:

yeah, of course it sucks to lose what was a winnable game, but i feel like we should generally feel optimistic more than anything for obvious reasons

- Kawhi and pg played on the second night of a b2b and balled OUT. That is truly meaningful, particularly for kawhi because of his injury issues. He obviously was feeling the effect of it toward the end, and so what i'd say the biggest takeaways from all that are:

A. they're still very much the stars we traded for, and still have some years left - and i'd say a concern of mine has been wondering when the ball will drop and they fall off the cliff, to which it looks like "not just yet"
B. they're not just willing to play those extra games, but they're not gonna be TOO impacted by doing so
C. kawhi is likely in better overall shape and most likely completely recovered from the ACL, which bodes very well for us
D. guess what happens in the playoffs where the real stuff really matters and kawhi has legit rest and turns into a superhero?

- PG looks like MV-PG. dude is straight COOKING, to the point that i keep saying "yo, that's KD-type stuff, but in a PG way." Like, you can clearly see he's worked to fix his issues, the team has looked to put him in better spots to do good things while taking his bad things away from him, and he just seems like he knows exactly what he wants to do, how he's gonna do it, and that he's GONNA do it. It feels like there's a confidence there from him that i'm not sure i've observed all that often in his time here.

- Team was not just short-handed, but playing some guys who were clearly not cutting it. Tucker was NOT good, plumlee hasn't been particularly good all season, and powell is kinda cringey all things considered. Mann coming back will be great for us, and i'm hoping MP will get back to his usual +impact self. And I'm not even remotely counting the impact that harden will provide.

There's more, but those are the biggest things to me. A lot to look forward to.

[esqtvd]

Any game after a big trade can be tough. Agreed about Norm being mostly a non factor tonight. Reeves was ref baiting so hard on that last possession. PJ played solid D on him & was visibly frustrated by Reeves flailing.
Free throws killed us and the only scorers were our big 3.
Great game though and when we add Harden this wouldn’t happen

Yes. Everyone was auditioning for Harden. Even Kawhi.

Say what you want about Beard but he's a first-ballot HOFer who still can average 20/5/10 in his sleep. Of course everyone wants to impress him.

Give me a break. Kawhi isn't auditioning for anyone let alone a regular season stat monger MVP. Kawhi is a 2 time FINALS MVP and a DPOY. Kawhi is a UNANIMOUS consent 1st ballot HoF. Kawhi will still be given the toughest defensive assignments while Lue schemes to hide Harden on the defensive end.

Believe it or don't lol. IDGAF.

I rest my case. Harden shows up and Kawhi wants to play every game. Not a coincidence.

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[esqtvd]

As far as the game itself:

yeah, of course it sucks to lose what was a winnable game, but i feel like we should generally feel optimistic more than anything for obvious reasons

- Kawhi and pg played on the second night of a b2b and balled OUT. That is truly meaningful, particularly for kawhi because of his injury issues. He obviously was feeling the effect of it toward the end, and so what i'd say the biggest takeaways from all that are:

A. they're still very much the stars we traded for, and still have some years left - and i'd say a concern of mine has been wondering when the ball will drop and they fall off the cliff, to which it looks like "not just yet"
B. they're not just willing to play those extra games, but they're not gonna be TOO impacted by doing so
C. kawhi is likely in better overall shape and most likely completely recovered from the ACL, which bodes very well for us
D. guess what happens in the playoffs where the real stuff really matters and kawhi has legit rest and turns into a superhero?

- PG looks like MV-PG. dude is straight COOKING, to the point that i keep saying "yo, that's KD-type stuff, but in a PG way." Like, you can clearly see he's worked to fix his issues, the team has looked to put him in better spots to do good things while taking his bad things away from him, and he just seems like he knows exactly what he wants to do, how he's gonna do it, and that he's GONNA do it. It feels like there's a confidence there from him that i'm not sure i've observed all that often in his time here.

- Team was not just short-handed, but playing some guys who were clearly not cutting it. Tucker was NOT good, plumlee hasn't been particularly good all season, and powell is kinda cringey all things considered. Mann coming back will be great for us, and i'm hoping MP will get back to his usual +impact self. And I'm not even remotely counting the impact that harden will provide.

There's more, but those are the biggest things to me. A lot to look forward to.

Yes, Powell and especially Plumlee continue to leak points. It's a cause for concern.

As for Tucker, we'll see. As one of the last true PFs in basketball, AD is a particularly unfavorable matchup for him but we had nobody else.

[esqtvd]

Any game after a big trade can be tough. Agreed about Norm being mostly a non factor tonight. Reeves was ref baiting so hard on that last possession. PJ played solid D on him & was visibly frustrated by Reeves flailing.
Free throws killed us and the only scorers were our big 3.
Great game though and when we add Harden this wouldn’t happen

Yes. Everyone was auditioning for Harden. Even Kawhi.

Say what you want about Beard but he's a first-ballot HOFer who still can average 20/5/10 in his sleep. Of course everyone wants to impress him.

Auditioning for what exactly? For Harden to pass them the ball? These aren't rookies, there's no reason for them to be auditioning for him, Harden is the third best player on the team, no one is auditioning for him.

Harden is going to be the one that has to "audition" by picking up his defense and actually having ready hands and shooting when he gets catch and shoot shots, and moving into space when off ball on the perimeter and others are attacking, even if he doesn't want to cut.

Harden will have his own accountability issues, yes. But as a top 50 player [of ALL TIME] he carries a level of gravitas that raises the overall level for everybody.

School's out. No more excuses, no more "saving it for later." The Future Is Now.

[madmaxmedia]

A. they're still very much the stars we traded for, and still have some years left - and i'd say a concern of mine has been wondering when the ball will drop and they fall off the cliff, to which it looks like "not just yet"

Everything you said, with an emphasis on this. They're not the same guys from 5 years ago, but they are holding up really well and haven't had to change their games yet. There is still of course health for us to worry about. But they are still great players and adding Harden to the mix could be really fun to watch. That we can generally always have at least 2 of the 3 on the floor at any given time is gonna be a really nice luxury. Harden has had the biggest drop-off physically, but all 3 are just incredibly skilled basketball players.

Regardless of how many games Kawhi plays, that he said he wants to play all 82 is a great indicator that he feels 100%. That is so much better than his health always being shrouded in mystery, sometimes playing and sometimes not, with on the vaguest of comments coming from anyone. This could still happen, but let's enjoy this for now lol.

I hope we get a chance at some roster balancing at some point this season. Bones has looked nice so far too, as a guy who can play regular minutes and actually contribute to winning. Kobe Brown is not embarrassing himself at all so far, which bodes well too. He's surely going to have rookie moments but he actually looks like a guy who knows the game of basketball, as opposed to some of our rawer prospects. If his 3PT shooting is for real I think he'll actually stick, and trading away 4 power forwards suddenly gives him an opportunity to prove himself.

[esqtvd]

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Agree. Nothing to cry about here. Harden and Mann taking 40+ of those minutes is something to look forward to. Bigtime.

[wakelaunch1]

Trade Zubac to Portland. Salaries match up almost perfect. I also think we botched not getting Trayce Jackson Davis who is a defensive big who is already getting minutes in Golden State.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers/robert-williams-iii-26993/

[og15]

Also our bigs have to be better, Zu and Plumblee were pretty trash last night. I still say we should have gone after a legit center instead

What do you mean by legit C?

They are both legit C's. The issue in the NBA is that if you don't have a star/superstar C (Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, etc), the upgrade you get from C's like Zubac and Plumlee to C's like Ayton, etc is not nearly enough to justify the massively increased cost for many teams, but definitely not for the Clippers.

Zubac makes $11 million, Plumlee makes $5 million. Combined they make $16 million. Nurkic makes $17 million to be injury prone and only give you 27-28 mpg, meaning you still need a pretty solid backup. Ayton makes $32.5M to be unmotivated half the time, want to get more shots when he can't create much, and be afraid of contact. Vucevic makes $18.5M, but he's not really a rim protector. Neither Nurk or Vuc are mobile to be able to guard in space, and neither can contain Jokic. Ayton can guard better in space, but he doesn't want to be a rebound/defense/finisher C anyways, and he does nothing on Jokic. Luka was posting him up and backing him down two playoffs ago.

The only team so far that seems to bother Jokic is Minnesota with twin towers Towns ($36M) and Gobert ($41M) together.

The whole point of the salary cap is that teams are generally not going to be able to make perfect rosters and plug every holes. So you have to be weak somewhere and find a way to overcome it.

Clippers don't need to spend more money at C. They actually need a "big" mobile and solidly athletic forward who can guard multiple positions, help protect the rim, and finish.

Oh yea, I make it sound like it is super easy to just find those guys, lol. Of course, it's not. I don't see how a "real C", whatever we mean by that changes anything. Maybe another C just to have options to throw out, but the Clippers aren't getting a C better than Zu without paying, but then who wants to give up their better enough C for Zu and whatever else, that's the problem.

Perhaps I'm getting a C mixed up with a mobile big like you said. Having a stretch C would also be nice to have as an option. I say stretch Big because having him and Westbrook playing at the same time allows the defense to shrink the floor. Ibaka would have been perfect if he was like 5 years younger lol

Yea, any C improvement will have to be through trade, for sure. If there was a mobile stretch big who can protect the rim available in free agency, no one was getting him at a minimum contract unless he has an issue.

Of course the reality is that if we want that player back, the other team will have to take Zubac. So a team that wants to switch a player who we consider superior to Zubac at the C position for him would need to be tanking and it would likely be an older player than Zu.

Trade Zubac to Portland. Salaries match up almost perfect. I also think we botched not getting Trayce Jackson Davis who is a defensive big who is already getting minutes in Golden State.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers/robert-williams-iii-26993/

Why is Portland making this trade though? Both player basically make the same amount of money, they are the same age, and the suggestion here is that Williams is better, so what's the point for Portland.

This would be one of those trades where you now have to add some other incentive that no one actually wants to add. Williams is also oft injured, Zubac is for the most part an Ironman. I like Williams, but we'd now be complaining about our injury prone team adding a guy that averages like 40 games/season his last three years.

[Clemenza]

Starters were gassed. PG is on a tear and loved seeing Kawhi get back at it again. Not the best of 2nd halves for Russ, Zu, and even Bones. Also we had Kobe Brown rollin' but then its PJ Tucker for the entire 2nd half? Its shades of a certain player that was the coach's favorite that we just traded away but I'll hold off on that sort of talk for now. FOR NOW!

[nickhx2]

ya feels like it's fated to be another marcus morris type situation but what can you do

[wakelaunch1]

ya feels like it's fated to be another marcus morris type situation but what can you do

Hes better at defense and hustle. Hopefully that shows down the road. Lebron was a tough first game matchup. Unfortunately he takes minutes away from Kobe which who want to get major minutes even if they are costly in the beginning "growing pains". We need another guy to not slow develop. Boston plays behind our best positions so he is never going to get minutes. Bones is kinda screwed now with Harden. And I like the energy that Bones brings as even a starter. Lue hates rookies

[Vae Victus]

PJ looked hella washed, no reason for him to be on the floor unless he was gonna hurt someone by being a thug. Dude cant shoot and doesnt have the wheels to defend anyone anymore. Father time got him and now he's just gonna be an albatross that wont expire for another year.

Better off with going with Kobe Brown and hoping he can develop into something better. I mean at this point, the team is full of guards and wings, might as well play small using Kawhi at the 4.

[esqtvd]

ya feels like it's fated to be another marcus morris type situation but what can you do

Hes better at defense and hustle. Hopefully that shows down the road. Lebron was a tough first game matchup. Unfortunately he takes minutes away from Kobe which who want to get major minutes even if they are costly in the beginning "growing pains". We need another guy to not slow develop. Boston plays behind our best positions so he is never going to get minutes. Bones is kinda screwed now with Harden. And I like the energy that Bones brings as even a starter. Lue hates rookies

Our rookies have sucked for years--all late-FRPs or SRPs who can't get out of G-League. They've gotten more PT than they deserved. NONE have gone elsewhere and thrived. Our former FRP Keon Johnson is now on his 4TH TEAM and he was only drafted in 2021.


Kobe Brown showed the most of anybody in this year's summer league since T-Mann, and has ALREADY been rewarded with some NBA minutes.

PJ Tucker is a freak, a 6'5", 240 lb power forward who gets by on effort and smarts. He will make a great mentor for Kobe and be very useful once Ty figures out how to use him, and with whom. And he's got BALLS, something you can never have enough of.

[Clemenza]

ya feels like it's fated to be another marcus morris type situation but what can you do

Hes better at defense and hustle. Hopefully that shows down the road. Lebron was a tough first game matchup. Unfortunately he takes minutes away from Kobe which who want to get major minutes even if they are costly in the beginning "growing pains". We need another guy to not slow develop. Boston plays behind our best positions so he is never going to get minutes. Bones is kinda screwed now with Harden. And I like the energy that Bones brings as even a starter. Lue hates rookies

Our rookies have sucked, high-FRPs or SRPs who can't get out of G-League. They've gotten more PT than they deserved. Kobe showed the most of anybody in summer league since T-Mann, and has already been rewarded with some NBA minutes.

Tucker is a freak, a 6'5", 240 lb power forward who gets by on effort and smarts. He will make a great mentor for Kobe and be very useful once Ty figures out how to use him, and with whom.

He's 38, washed, and passed up a couple of wide open jumpers last night. This isn't ten years ago. Meanwhile Kobe is a 6'8" 240lb power forward-linebacker. We're overloaded with vets with Russ, PG, Kawhi, and now Harden so its not like we have nothing but kids on the court. Put the kid in the mix. He's worth their while

[esqtvd]

Hes better at defense and hustle. Hopefully that shows down the road. Lebron was a tough first game matchup. Unfortunately he takes minutes away from Kobe which who want to get major minutes even if they are costly in the beginning "growing pains". We need another guy to not slow develop. Boston plays behind our best positions so he is never going to get minutes. Bones is kinda screwed now with Harden. And I like the energy that Bones brings as even a starter. Lue hates rookies

Our rookies have sucked, high-FRPs or SRPs who can't get out of G-League. They've gotten more PT than they deserved. Kobe showed the most of anybody in summer league since T-Mann, and has already been rewarded with some NBA minutes.

Tucker is a freak, a 6'5", 240 lb power forward who gets by on effort and smarts. He will make a great mentor for Kobe and be very useful once Ty figures out how to use him, and with whom.

He's 38, washed, and passed up a couple of wide open jumpers last night. This isn't ten years ago. Meanwhile Kobe is a 6'8" 240lb power forward-linebacker. We're overloaded with vets with Russ, PG, Kawhi, and now Harden so its not like we have nothing but kids on the court. Put the kid in the mix. He's worth their while

The kid WAS put in the mix. That was the point.

Yes, the Sixers also urged Tucker to shot that open 3. He will be even more open with this crew.

To judge him based on one game with no practice against the best pure PF in the NBA is...premature.

[Captain Ballmer]

ya feels like it's fated to be another marcus morris type situation but what can you do

PJ tucker got 5 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS in 21 minutes yesterday. If they don't respect your shooting, you gotta make them pay. In PJ's case, he don't make corner treys as a penalty instead he get those off rebounds since no one around him boxing out. That's way more contribution to the team than what Morris had in the last 2 years already. He also sets great screens in the offense.

I'm okay with Kobe Brown getting all of his minutes, even wanted too. But I'm totally ok with a guy like Tucker in this squad, getting some minutes(not standard rotation minutes) here and there. To be precisely, I mean I want him on a Taysom Hill role in the Saints. Gadget player.

[PeteyPablo]

I was listening to ESPN LA radio station yesterday as I was driving home and they were talking about the game.

They mentioned that at halftime Lakers coach , Ham, said Clippers were more physical and had great ball movement. So Lakers went out there with more size and length.

I fell asleep during halftime , so I did not watch the second half. Seeing the box score , looks like this came down to the wire and if only some calls went Clippers way or if they made a few more free throws. Bones had a quiet night , when he has been scoring 15+ this season.

[nickhx2]

ya feels like it's fated to be another marcus morris type situation but what can you do

PJ tucker got 5 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS in 21 minutes yesterday. If they don't respect your shooting, you gotta make them pay. In PJ's case, he don't make corner treys as a penalty instead he get those off rebounds since no one around him boxing out. That's way more contribution to the team than what Morris had in the last 2 years already. He also sets great screens in the offense.

I'm okay with Kobe Brown getting all of his minutes, even wanted too. But I'm totally ok with a guy like Tucker in this squad, getting some minutes(not standard rotation minutes) here and there. To be precisely, I mean I want him on a Taysom Hill role in the Saints. Gadget player.

i think we're talking about a different degree of things here, fwiw. i mean it's pretty clear he's a marginal player at this point. and while i can at the same time agree with you that he'd provide more impact than morris, i at the same time have a lot of concerns that lue will overplay him the way he did morris, in lieu of better options.

ideally we move powell for a better alternative, or brown just turns himself into a guy you can't keep off the floor. i'm not optimistic about either scenario, and lue's propensity to give vets more time than they deserve i think is certainly a non-zero % concern.

[HardenGoat]

PJ is a playoff asset at this point in a defensive and rebounding role. He’s a good vet that throughout the season can help the defense and overall team gel. I agree though he is way overpaid for that unless a chip results. If so he will have played his part. He definitely needs to shoot in the corner without hesitation.