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Cousins

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Cousins 

Post#1 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:04 pm

Kirk. Not Demarcus, Gotcha! :)

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Kirk Cousins reminds me of Drew Brees. He looks fiery and serious and sincere. Boogie Gousins has swag. I've always liked his style, even when he loses it. I thought he would be okay and I'm glad to see him having a good NBA career. Nice tie. But about KIRK Cousins ...

Donovan McNabb might be on to something in his views about Shanahan.

Why draft Kirk Cousins unless you want to breed instability and create a QB controversy if RGIII stumbles? I think it would have been best to get a veteran backup and not have two rookies in camp.

--Both QBs need a lot of snaps and Cameron is in a losing scenario where his success will only come at the great failure of Griffin.

Wall doesn't get to play with DaMarcus Cousins but Griffin comes to town with Kirk Cousins, an-Elway type guy IMO, in training camp against him. :(

Am I being an alarmist? Am I not too subtly insinuating racial innuendo, and unfairly so on Shanahan? He's been said to always be looking for the next Elway. He has had problems with McNabb and Haynesworth, but he put his reputation on Grossman and Beck.

Is it just me or was drafting Kirk Cousins a bad sign?
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Re: Cousins 

Post#2 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:17 pm

SPEAKING OF ELWAY, that is whose organization had expressed interest in KIRK Cousins.

Cousins met with Bills coach Chan Gailey and quarterbacks coach David Lee during his Buffalo visit. The Chiefs sent QB coach Jim Zorn to East Lansing to conduct a workout and film session. Cousins visited Denver last week and met with coach John Fox, executive vice president of football operations John Elway, general manager Brian Xanders and a regional scout.

"It seems like a great organization and great place to be if that's where I end up," said Cousins, who also caught up with Broncos receiver and former Spartan Mark Dell.

Cousins, who said he would watch the draft tonight with his family in Holland, would welcome a chance to learn the NFL game under new Denver starter Peyton Manning.

"Certainly being his backup would have its challenges at times,
because I know he is a demanding person and that's part of the reason he's so successful. But I think some of the things I'd learn would be invaluable," Cousins said.


Mike Shanahan really has messed up. This kid wants to be a starter and would have been ideally suited to play behind a legend like Payton. He would have gotten to watch the BEST work. Now, Cousins goes to a town where he might be perceived to be the bad guy. Griffin has to try to destroy him, but IMO it could be that Cousins adapts to the Shanahan's offense really well.

Prediction: Griffin could struggle and Shanahan is going to prefer this young man, who appears to be very solid as well.

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I read this comparison somewhere else but it is Heath Schuler vs Gus Frerotte all over again.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#3 » by Ed Wood » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:47 pm

You might be just slightly premature in this. I viewed Cousins as a bit of a luxury pick in light of the other issues in the team's composition that could have been potentially dealt with using the same pick but this was probably just a case of the team having a very high opinion of Cousins, as you fear they do, and taking advantage of a number of other franchises who assumed that after the run on quarterbacks in the earlier rounds those teams who desperately needed a QB were satisfied and Cousins could be allowed to fall past the value at which they estimated him.

I don't imagine Cousins will pose a very serious threat to Griffin as a potential long term starter unless something goes very wrong in Griffin's game, this is the same organization who paid a king's ransom to have the opportunity to draft him and there's no way to look at the price paid to draft RGIII without concluding the team thinks the world of him. Cousins was an opportunity for the team to flex and brag about how disciplined it is with its draft board, an opportunity to manufacture a mandate to fire Beck into the sun and frankly a result of the fact that the kid is like built of distilled coaching maxims. I imagine he'd be a dude I'd secretly thrill to see getting blown up in an entirely non-injurious manner if he wasn't on the 'skins.

Anyway, I wish the team had picked differently and missing out on a guy like Alameda Ta'amu rankles a little but I think the team's plan more closely resembles what New England is doing with Brian Hoyer or what Green Bay didn't really do but perhaps could have with Matt Flynn: have Cousins come into a game some time and end up like 30/40 and then demand a dowry of a second rounder from any suitor who comes calling. I don't think he's a serious threat to steal Griffin's thunder.

And while I know what you meant it's funny that you backed up your assertion that Cousins wants to be a starter (who doesn't?) with a quote saying he'd be happy to back up another quarterback.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#4 » by Upper Decker » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:05 pm

This is a pure luxary pick for a team that cant really afford luxary picks right now. However, I'll try to look at the silver lining. Maybe the Shanahighs had him graded out as a late second round pick and felt the value was too good to pass up. It's probably easier to acclaimate both RG3 and Cousins to the NFL at the same time. Also, maybe they're looking at this as a way to re-coup some of their picks they gave to St. Louis.

Ideally Cousins doesn't play in the regular season, however, he spends two season learning the NFL ropes under Shannahan and tears it up in pre-season. If Kolb, who totally stinks, can get a starting corner and a high 2nd, maybe the Skins can build the stock of Cousins and get a 2nd and a 4th in two seasons?
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Re: Cousins 

Post#5 » by Wizards2Lottery » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:24 pm

Yeah Mike traded three first round picks and a 2nd rounder because he had doubts about Griffin.

Kirk Cousins is a scrub. He has no John Elway or Drew Brees in his game. He'll likely develop into a career backup. Nobody was buying this kid as a starting QB. Which is why the Broncos themselves selected another scrub Brock Osweiller over him. I don't think you realize how bad the QB prospects in this draft were after RGIII and Luck. Tannehill would be lucky to be a 2nd round pick most years.

He's here because we had an extra fourth rounder to spend. The upside is that he might turn out decent and there is always a shortage of starting QB's in the league. You can flip his fourth round draft status to a 2nd rounder someday. The downside is that he might turn out as a bust in the fourth round. Most players drafted in the fourth round don't contribute much in the NFL.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#6 » by Wizards2Lottery » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:25 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I read this comparison somewhere else but it is Heath Schuler vs Gus Frerotte all over again.


Are you high?
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Re: Cousins 

Post#7 » by Wizardspride » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:32 pm

CCJ, I love you man but sometimes I think you just look for things to worry about.

This is a non-issue.



Kirk Cousins is no threat to RG3. At his absolute best he'll be a serviceable starter in this league. Maybe....


Shanny drafted him because the Skins' philosophy is BPA and he was apparently the best remaining on thier board.

Shanny's own words on the subject.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... line_stack
Redskins coach Mike Shanahan explained to The Associated Press: "Any time you get a quarterback like Robert in the second pick of a draft, he's your franchise quarterback. He's going to be your quarterback for the next decade. (Kirk) knows he's going to be a backup, but there (are) injuries. I thought it was a steal for us."
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Re: Cousins 

Post#8 » by TGW » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:23 pm

Wizards2Lottery wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I read this comparison somewhere else but it is Heath Schuler vs Gus Frerotte all over again.


Are you high?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#9 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:59 am

Wizards2Lottery wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I read this comparison somewhere else but it is Heath Schuler vs Gus Frerotte all over again.


Are you high?

W2L, if I taught a special needs class and a kid said to me, "Are you stupid or something?" I would consider the source.

No, this morning I was pretty exuberant with the Cousins picture. A lot of Wizards fans know I wanted Demarcus Cousins because he's played well with Wall, and because Demarcus is a great rebounder.

I found it ironic that Cousins comes to Washington, but not that Cousins. So, I put up some pictures that I thought showed the difference in one and the other.

My real point was I curious about the move to draft a QB right after drafting RGIII. I thought the Redskins have other needs.

I think drafting a QB didn't make sense.

I DID NOT KNOW IT COULD HAVE BEEN A STRATEGIC MOVE to draft a QB that might get the Skins some picks back.

W2L, if you're coherent and still paying attention, you're not high. Congrats! :)
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Re: Cousins 

Post#10 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:16 am

Ed Wood wrote:You might be just slightly premature in this. I viewed Cousins as a bit of a luxury pick in light of the other issues in the team's composition that could have been potentially dealt with using the same pick but this was probably just a case of the team having a very high opinion of Cousins, as you fear they do, and taking advantage of a number of other franchises who assumed that after the run on quarterbacks in the earlier rounds those teams who desperately needed a QB were satisfied and Cousins could be allowed to fall past the value at which they estimated him.

I don't imagine Cousins will pose a very serious threat to Griffin as a potential long term starter unless something goes very wrong in Griffin's game, this is the same organization who paid a king's ransom to have the opportunity to draft him and there's no way to look at the price paid to draft RGIII without concluding the team thinks the world of him. Cousins was an opportunity for the team to flex and brag about how disciplined it is with its draft board, an opportunity to manufacture a mandate to fire Beck into the sun and frankly a result of the fact that the kid is like built of distilled coaching maxims. I imagine he'd be a dude I'd secretly thrill to see getting blown up in an entirely non-injurious manner if he wasn't on the 'skins.

Anyway, I wish the team had picked differently and missing out on a guy like Alameda Ta'amu rankles a little but I think the team's plan more closely resembles what New England is doing with Brian Hoyer or what Green Bay didn't really do but perhaps could have with Matt Flynn: have Cousins come into a game some time and end up like 30/40 and then demand a dowry of a second rounder from any suitor who comes calling. I don't think he's a serious threat to steal Griffin's thunder.

And while I know what you meant it's funny that you backed up your assertion that Cousins wants to be a starter (who doesn't?) with a quote saying he'd be happy to back up another quarterback.


Thanks, Ed. I'm glad I posted and got a well-reasoned (per usual from you) response.

--If Cousins a luxury pick, they should have drafted an "Alameda Ta'amu". Fill a need somewhere else and don't just snatch a guy others want who you don't need.
--I would assume Beck and Grossman could both be replaced by one veteran. I don't think two rookies is the best way to guy for starter and backup.
--If Cousins is no threat then why draft him? Why would any other team like him?
--I think Griffin will have some trouble. Baylor's offense is different from Shanahan's. Griffin won't be breaking 50-60 yard runs in the NFL--or will he?

Last, how is Cousin's trade value going up if he's no threat to play behind Griffin?

I still don't see this move.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#11 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:39 am

Wizardspride wrote:CCJ, I love you man but sometimes I think you just look for things to worry about.

This is a non-issue.



Kirk Cousins is no threat to RG3. At his absolute best he'll be a serviceable starter in this league. Maybe....


Shanny drafted him because the Skins' philosophy is BPA and he was apparently the best remaining on thier board.

Shanny's own words on the subject.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... line_stack
Redskins coach Mike Shanahan explained to The Associated Press: "Any time you get a quarterback like Robert in the second pick of a draft, he's your franchise quarterback. He's going to be your quarterback for the next decade. (Kirk) knows he's going to be a backup, but there (are) injuries. I thought it was a steal for us."


Here's my thoughts: Shanahan reminds me a lot of Flip Saunders.

There is something he is not seeing. The worst thing in the world for Wall was to make him the team captain. Hinrich was acquired while Gil was still here. (At the time we didn't know Ernie would clean up a failed attempt by turning Hinrich into all kinds of good trade pieces). What Flip did was cause mass chaos. Hinrich, Gil, and Wall were each put in an awkward position.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/defin ... ntrol.html
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/5067.html

I'm not knowledgable and versed enough on span of control and span of influence to explain what I want to say simply. I think what Shanahan is thinking is he got a good backup for where he made the pick. I believe he got a guy who probably would have rather gone anywhere but to Washington or Indianapolis. Cousins is already been told the job isn't yours. The guy who he is backing is very young. There is NO HOPE for Cousins that he will do anything but rot on the bench unless Griffin is hurt.

Also, I think keeping Rex Grossman next year is insane. What's in it for him staying on? Why would he mentor guys who the rest will say aren't as sorry as Rex was?

Last, there is a big difference in backing Payton and backing RGIII. Brady Quinn never got a chance in Denver. Cousins gets to hold a rookes' bags now.
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Brooks played Mahinmi, Smith, and Bogdanovic at the same time. Wonder why the Wizards lost momentum at that time?
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Re: Cousins 

Post#12 » by BigA » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:23 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:<snip>

I believe he got a guy who probably would have rather gone anywhere but to Washington or Indianapolis. Cousins is already been told the job isn't yours. The guy who he is backing is very young. There is NO HOPE for Cousins that he will do anything but rot on the bench unless Griffin is hurt.


Cousins may not like it, but look at where he was drafted. In a very thin year for QBs no one drafted him to be a starter or "starter in waiting." In a stronger year for QBs he would be a 6th round pick. He's just not very good. I would be mildly surprised if he hangs on as a career back-up for more than a couple years.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Also, I think keeping Rex Grossman next year is insane. What's in it for him staying on? Why would he mentor guys who the rest will say aren't as sorry as Rex was?


What's in it for Grossman? He gets another year in the league. If he were cut I doubt anyone would pick him up. And Shanahan (rightly) doesn't want to have to start Cousins if RGIII goes down.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Last, there is a big difference in backing Payton and backing RGIII. Brady Quinn never got a chance in Denver. Cousins gets to hold a rookes' bags now.


You never know. You can't guarantee health in the NFL, especially at QB. Cousins may get a chance to prove that his upside is career back-up (like Brady Quinn).
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Re: Cousins 

Post#13 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:54 am

Imo, there's almost zero chance this turns out anything like Shuler/Gus, because Shanny has made it abundantly crystal clear that RG3 is the man and because of the football maturity of the 2 players involved. These 2 guys are off the charts for rookies in their intangibles. In Shuler and Gus, they had 2 quys who really had troubles just commanding a huddle - if you believe Brian Mitchell.

So, with that not being a concern - look at the backup QB position. We have Grossman - period - and he's on a 1 year contract - probably paying him good money. They're going to be able to sign Cousins for chump change for 4 years. In year 2, he does FILL A NEED, as he'll be the backup QB, so this pick isn't a lux pick - it fills a need - just a year in advance. And it saves money, because you generally have to pay for a 2nd string QB.

Also, these guys are going to help each other. They're both extraordinarily studious and smart, and they're going to bounce ideas and questions around with each other - and Grossman - and the Shannys. It's gonna be a mutually benefial situation.

And a running QB is going to be more vulnerable to injuries, so you need depth there. I know they can talk about him being a pocket passer, but RG3 is going to run a fair amount - maybe not as much as Vick, but he's going to be vulnerable.

And my 6th of 5 points, young backup QB's who do well in a couple of games are deemed to be worth their weight in gold. If Cousins does well subbing for RG3, all of a sudden, the market will say he's worth a first round pick - and they can trade him at some point and pick the next Cousins - KC2.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#14 » by queridiculo » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:31 pm

- Washington needs a backup quarterback
- 2nd round value available in the 4th round, Redskins follow their draft board.

Conclusion: Redskins brass has no faith in Griffin.

Makes total sense.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#15 » by BigA » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:56 pm

I think that drafting Cousins is a low-risk, potential high-reward move. But the notion that the Shanahans are these Obi-Wan Kenobi-like evaluators/developers of QBs should be pretty much discredited by now.

They traded valuable picks for washed up Donovan McNabb, then went into last season with Rex Grossman and John Beck.

Even with Elway, the foundations of the success Shanahan enjoyed in Denver were a strong running game, defense, and the altitude.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#16 » by Higga » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:16 pm

Cousins is damn good value in the 4th round. He won't come close to RG3. Anyone who thinks it'll actually affect him is kidding themselves. In three years we'll flip Cousins for a 2nd or 3rd.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#17 » by Chaos Revenant » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:10 pm

BigA wrote:I think that drafting Cousins is a low-risk, potential high-reward move. But the notion that the Shanahans are these Obi-Wan Kenobi-like evaluators/developers of QBs should be pretty much discredited by now.

They traded valuable picks for washed up Donovan McNabb, then went into last season with Rex Grossman and John Beck.


1: Big mistake, but largely due to unpredictable factors. McNabb was 23/10 in TD:Int with a 90 QBR. But he got an entitlement complex in DC and didn't want to work hard when he could have been the next Elway had he wanted to get with the program.

2: Shanahan had no other options, unless you wanted him to take apparent mega-bust Blaine Gabbert. I hate this argument because it's so stupid, going into the season with Grossman and Beck doesn't mean he loves them (he talked like he did because he didn't want to undermine their confidence) but because he had no other options at the time.

Shanahan turned Brian Griese and Jake Plummer into Pro Bowl level talents, and Kyle helped turn Matt Schaub into a Pro Bowler himself. I trust their ability to get the most out of QBs.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#18 » by mohammed10 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:12 pm

CCJ - I'd rather have the basketball version to pair with JWall. Hoops future would look much brighter and our 'rebuild' would be potentially accelerated.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#19 » by doclinkin » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:22 pm

Higga wrote:Cousins is damn good value in the 4th round. He won't come close to RG3. Anyone who thinks it'll actually affect him is kidding themselves. In three years we'll flip Cousins for a 2nd or 3rd.


Washington of all places should understand the value of having a back-up QB in place in case the starter goes down. I have no real read on whether or not Kirk is da Man, but the team actually traded back to pick up an extra pick, so this is a free pick for them. Who cares whether he was drafted this year or next, seems to me sensible.

Said on the lonely Skins board, I also like that they picked up 3 fast-footed scrappy O-Linemen who are well suited to shuffle in and out of their zone-blocking scheme. I take them at their word when they say these were guys they had targeted as good fits. Or anyways looks like they fit a pattern.

Notice too none are 6'7" widebody monsters, too tall to see over too wide to get around. RG3 isn't a 6'6" guntower QB. He'll have to scramble some, but that's what the Shanny offense is built around when it runs best: option plays off bootlegs, misdirection and gap running based on a mobile line. In Denver Shanny's lines were known for being undersized but well-conditioned: fast, nasty, undercutting, diving at the defenses knees to chop 'em down. RG3 won't have to hop skyward to throw over his line, just watch the gaps and look for daylight then be ready either to turn it on or let it fly.
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Re: Cousins 

Post#20 » by MF23 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:29 pm

Higga wrote:Cousins is damn good value in the 4th round. He won't come close to RG3. Anyone who thinks it'll actually affect him is kidding themselves. In three years we'll flip Cousins for a 2nd or 3rd.


I agree and hope this is what transpires.
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