Lakers @ Portland Game Thread 1/5/2015

[TyCobb]

One of those times where stats are misleading.

Supposedly, Cle rejected Sacre and salary relief for Waiters.

[tenten]

I like your fairness. Though I strongly disagree with the statement
"as is Sacre, Swaggy is actually middle of the pack, Lin too" Swaggy and lin is below avg. Sacre isn't nba level. And boozer? well he doesn't really play defense at all.
and we claimed Black just to sit on the bench.

If you go back and watch the game, our defense was terrible for the whole game, some how Portland clanks open shots one after another in the first 3 quarters.

In Defensive Real Plus and Minus (Defensive RPM) Sacre is number 51 in the league. Number 52 is Marc Gasol

The Lakers next player is Wayne Ellington at 149th.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM

Coincidentally Lin's has improved since going to the bench. Swaggy's has gone down (earlier in the season they were about the same). And Davis's has gone down since starting.

On 82games.com our best defensive lineups all include Sacre....namely: Lin-Ellington-Young-Boozer-Sacre...this has been talked about in other threads, man, I really don't know where you've been.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415LAL2.HTM

I'm not huge on Sacre, and I wouldn't want him to be a starter, but he's actually been solid this season.

Look, by your source, lin and Kelly, is a better defender than ed davis. and our long wing 3d wes Johnson is even worse.
just take a look at all the mod's responses in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1359591

and see if you still want to use those stats to proof sacre is any where nba level.

[ChokeFasncists]

Sacre is the only legit 5 on the roster, stats gonna be skewed, the combo of Boozer and Hill was just terrible.

[crazyeights]

I like your fairness. Though I strongly disagree with the statement
"as is Sacre, Swaggy is actually middle of the pack, Lin too" Swaggy and lin is below avg. Sacre isn't nba level. And boozer? well he doesn't really play defense at all.
and we claimed Black just to sit on the bench.

If you go back and watch the game, our defense was terrible for the whole game, some how Portland clanks open shots one after another in the first 3 quarters.

In Defensive Real Plus and Minus (Defensive RPM) Sacre is number 51 in the league. Number 52 is Marc Gasol

The Lakers next player is Wayne Ellington at 149th.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM

Coincidentally Lin's has improved since going to the bench. Swaggy's has gone down (earlier in the season they were about the same). And Davis's has gone down since starting.

On 82games.com our best defensive lineups all include Sacre....namely: Lin-Ellington-Young-Boozer-Sacre...this has been talked about in other threads, man, I really don't know where you've been.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415LAL2.HTM

I'm not huge on Sacre, and I wouldn't want him to be a starter, but he's actually been solid this season.

Look, by your source, lin and Kelly, is a better defender than ed davis. and our long wing 3d wes Johnson is even worse.
just take a look at all the mod's responses in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1359591

and see if you still want to use those stats to proof sacre is any where nba level.

Unless that thread is somehow from the future, I don't see how it has any bearing.

Go lookup the words: "sample size" and "improvement."

What a joke.

[EArl]

We should pick up Dalembert. He would be a nice center on our team.

[tenten]

In Defensive Real Plus and Minus (Defensive RPM) Sacre is number 51 in the league. Number 52 is Marc Gasol

The Lakers next player is Wayne Ellington at 149th.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM

Coincidentally Lin's has improved since going to the bench. Swaggy's has gone down (earlier in the season they were about the same). And Davis's has gone down since starting.

On 82games.com our best defensive lineups all include Sacre....namely: Lin-Ellington-Young-Boozer-Sacre...this has been talked about in other threads, man, I really don't know where you've been.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415LAL2.HTM

I'm not huge on Sacre, and I wouldn't want him to be a starter, but he's actually been solid this season.

Look, by your source, lin and Kelly, is a better defender than ed davis. and our long wing 3d wes Johnson is even worse.
just take a look at all the mod's responses in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1359591

and see if you still want to use those stats to proof sacre is any where nba level.

Unless that thread is somehow from the future, I don't see how it has any bearing.

Go lookup the words: "sample size" and "improvement."

What a joke.

I don't get what you mean by that thread's bearing. All I'm saying is that you can't use stats to support any anything. especially that it suggests Sacre and lin are better defenders than davis.

This goes back to where I suggested Sacre and Lin is weak defensibly, and you pulled out stats to say they improved and is actually better than ed davis on defense. That's just ridiculous.

[crazyeights]

Your confusion about this actually proves our point about you: you don't seem to comprehend what facts and evidence are designed to do--you're incouragable in a discussion, so once you have your opinion set, there's no amount of reasoning that will make you see differently.

Posting a thread from December 6th as if that will forever prove a player's worth is silly. The guy has impressed me by the eye test that last few times I've watched and it's backed up by stats--again, he's not my favorite player, but he's shown he can be surprisingly serviceable. He's put in the work and improved: it's something you hope for.

Previously, I likened him to Darius Morris--at this point in time: I was wrong.

Look up "evolve" while you're at it.

[crazyeights]

Look, by your source, lin and Kelly, is a better defender than ed davis. and our long wing 3d wes Johnson is even worse.
just take a look at all the mod's responses in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1359591

and see if you still want to use those stats to proof sacre is any where nba level.

Unless that thread is somehow from the future, I don't see how it has any bearing.

Go lookup the words: "sample size" and "improvement."

What a joke.

I don't get what you mean by that thread's bearing. All I'm saying is that you can't use stats to support any anything. especially that it suggests Sacre and lin are better defenders than davis.

This goes back to where I suggested Sacre and Lin is weak defensibly, and you pulled out stats to say they improved and is actually better than ed davis on defense. That's just ridiculous.

Didn't all of this start by the use of the word "great" in describing Lin's defense when his guy scored 16 points? Now Lin is weak? I don't even understand your basic argument.

And if you're confused about why Lin moving to the BENCH would improve his defensive numbers, and why Ed Davis STARTING would hurt his I'm going to let you ponder that for a second....

Ah hell, I'll just tell you: they're playing different competition now. It's probably why Ed went down, Lin was so low in the 1st place, and Sacre has been so steady.

[tenten]

Your confusion about this actually proves our point about you: you don't seem to comprehend what facts and evidence are designed to do--you're incouragable in a discussion, so once you have your opinion set, there's no amount of reasoning that will make you see differently.

Posting a thread from December 6th as if that will forever prove a player's worth is silly. The guy has impressed me by the eye test that last few times I've watched and it's backed up by stats--again, he's not my favorite player, but he's shown he can be surprisingly serviceable. He's put in the work and improved: it's something you hope for.

Previously, I likened him to Darius Morris--at this point in time: I was wrong.

Look up "evolve" while you're at it.

I was talking about one thing, defense, I said that Sacre is not nba level on defense. He doesn't rebound, can't move his feet
You said that Sacre was middle of the pack/average on defense. I simply disagreed. It doesn't matter what other things he does or evolve later. In my opinion, he's is no where near middle of the pack on defense.

I respect your opinion, but I have issue with the "facts and evidence" you provided, because they suggest that Sacre is a better defender than Davis, if that's also your opinion, then we just have to agree to disagree.

[tenten]

Unless that thread is somehow from the future, I don't see how it has any bearing.

Go lookup the words: "sample size" and "improvement."

What a joke.

I don't get what you mean by that thread's bearing. All I'm saying is that you can't use stats to support any anything. especially that it suggests Sacre and lin are better defenders than davis.

This goes back to where I suggested Sacre and Lin is weak defensibly, and you pulled out stats to say they improved and is actually better than ed davis on defense. That's just ridiculous.

Didn't all of this start by the use of the word "great" in describing Lin's defense when his guy scored 16 points? Now Lin is weak? I don't even understand your basic argument.

And if you're confused about why Lin moving to the BENCH would improve his defensive numbers, and why Ed Davis STARTING would hurt his I'm going to let you ponder that for a second....

Ah hell, I'll just tell you: they're playing different competition now. It's probably why Ed went down, Lin was so low in the 1st place, and Sacre has been so steady.

Lin played "great" defense on Lillard, and I have given evidence with the video and assessment, feel free to give yours after watching the video.

That said, Lin is still a weaker defender than price.

And let me tell you why Lin improved his defensive number after moving to the bench. He just plays less minute vs lesser competition from bench players.

For the same reason, Davis's defensive number dropped after starting because he played more minutes vs better competition from starters

[Mamba Venom]

The best highlight was the swaggiest shot deep in the clock. We needed our closer to win that one. Oh well, better draft odds. We are so close to losing that pick.

[Kilroy]

Lillard scored 39 points... His career high is 43, and that came in triple OT.
Nobody played great defense on him. Nobody.
We didn't even play decent team D on him.
I'm not sure he could have done a whole lot more damage if we'd just ignored him all together.

He almost single handedly kicked our ass. I honestly am not sure how anybody can see it any different.

Is it all Lin's fault? Of course not... Did Lin, at any point in the game, ever play "great D on Lillard?" Absolutely not.

[ChokeFasncists]

OTOH, having a rim protector helps, the combo of Hill and Boozer is really terrible and they played in most of the fourth quarter. Price had Davis covering for him, Lin needs that. This team needs a legit center that can protect the rim.

[bws94]

Well, interesting discussion. Next game is a home game. Ah, sorry, a home location game. Last time competitive against the Clips, let's see how competitive this time and maybe, just maybe, eek out a win? Kobe will be back.

[ArC_man]

Regarding the majority of Lillard's shots in the 4th, it is by design of our defense for the bigs to stay back near the free throw line to contain penetration. Our bigs aren't fast enough to hedge and recover, Lillard would just blow right past them for layups. This setup basically gives either the ball handler or the screener a jump shot. Lin can do a better job of fighting over screens to try to chase Lillard off the 3 point line so that Lillard shoots a midrange shot, however it's harder said than done.

Also, Nick Young is better than most people think at individual defense, at least the effort has been there
http://www.vantagesports.com/#story/VJh ... ne-defense

[ChokeFasncists]

We should pick up Dalembert. He would be a nice center on our team.

He would make a huge difference. I doubt it's gonna happen tho.

[Slava]

If Sam Dalembert is the answer, don't ask me the question.

[ChokeFasncists]

Daly isn't a great center but he's much better than Hill or Sacre at defending the rim.

OTOH, that Young 20 footer at 92-93, if it had fallen would have been real nice, sooo close!

[ArC_man]

1) We don't have an open roster spot so we'd have to waive someone
2) He couldn't stick on the Knicks who are officially the worst team in the NBA now (the Knicks wouldn't cut Sacre if they had him btw)
3) He's old as dirt

[Lorenzomax7]

Look, by your source, lin and Kelly, is a better defender than ed davis. and our long wing 3d wes Johnson is even worse.
just take a look at all the mod's responses in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1359591

and see if you still want to use those stats to proof sacre is any where nba level.

Unless that thread is somehow from the future, I don't see how it has any bearing.

Go lookup the words: "sample size" and "improvement."

What a joke.

I don't get what you mean by that thread's bearing. All I'm saying is that you can't use stats to support any anything. especially that it suggests Sacre and lin are better defenders than davis.

This goes back to where I suggested Sacre and Lin is weak defensibly, and you pulled out stats to say they improved and is actually better than ed davis on defense. That's just ridiculous.

Actually it's unnecessary to compare Lin w/ ED. Cuz Lin would never play the CENTER spot and ED would never defend Chris Paul unless there was a switch strategy.

All we need is to compare Lin w/ RONNIE PRICE. How did he do in the starting line-up alongside Kobe AND ED?

The answer is : Price has not been as great as some ppl thought from Nov to Dec. He is no better than Lin on that end actually.