Rebuilding the Lakers realistically

[Danny Darko]

Wish Kobe would call it a career after this season. We are stuck waiting to get his 25 million off the books, that could pay for 3 very good players or 2 max type players. He needs to rest again on Sunday. He looks like he wants to go on a long vacation and rehab his body for a month.

I agree on the lotto talk. If we do not give the pick to the suns this year. It will be next year. Why not get it out of the way now. We will have J. Randle next year,he will be 20 by then. Love to have another pick, but odds are not good since other teams are trading there players and still loosing at a higher rate.

Can Kobe's contract be restructured? I would hope that he can see that he is a shell of his self basketball wise. Still a very good player but not playing up to his contact.....If this roster next year had another player at 5-10 mill plus the money they will have for free agents who knows how good we could be.

No CBA does not allow it.

[PICKnPOP]

I'd be Leary of offering a Phoenix player any type of max money. I love dragic but player tend to decline fast when they leave the Suns.

Jackson is a bonafide chucker and even okc is getting tired of him, I wouldn't be surprised if they traded him before the deadline.

I doubt Gasol comes to the lakers after his brother walked away last summer. He would be leaving a playoff team in Memphis for a rebuilding team in Los Angeles, doubtful.

Rebuilding is going to take time and we're going to have to take it one piece at a time. Getting lucky enough to grab Okafor in this draft would really expedite the process.


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[ak7]

Our rebuild in a realistic manner will be slower than any rebuild we have ever gone through most likely. We are going to have to draft and develop to give players a place to come to with a core that they can build success with.

We really, truthfully cannot start the rebuild the way we all want it to be done until we find our "centerpiece" for the future - whether that is Randle or a top 5 player in this years draft.

I'll tell you what though - add another 2-3 years to the rebuild if we do not keep our pick this year. Fully believe that. I pray our front office is smart enough to realize this as well through the bias of them thinking they will land the next Shaq again in free agency.

When you're only able to hand out 4 year deals at 4.5% raises with less overall money, you cannot possibly expect to land "Shaq." This isn't 1996.

Draft and develop.

[Kilroy]

Never understood how a sports fan could determine what "realistic" means with regard to team acquisitions.

Unless you are literally on the phones with the GM, you have no idea what is and isn't "realistic"... So what you're talking is "Relatively Realistic".... Which is relatively useless.

[ak7]

My bad, I guess I should have said.. unless we trade Jordan Hill for Anthony Davis, and Jordan Clarkson for Damian Lillard, we will have to build the "normal" way.

[Kilroy]

This whole thread was about "Realistic" Laker builds... Why would you think that was directed at you?

[crazyeights]

It will be interesting to see the FO's reaction if we don't land a significant free agent this summer.

Especially when you consider Jim's own 3 year timeline....I'd be shocked if we don't see them doing something rash and half-brained before that point. Really hoping we can make some good picks in the draft/nab a key FA or two just to keep them from taking shortcuts.

Would help if their message was a little less BS PR, though. Would love to hear them admit we're rebuilding. It's not a secret to the faithful, and it would let us know they're serious about the future.

Last thing we need is for another total dry spell shortly after nabbing the stars they're chasing.

Such as, a lot of us talk about Westbrook as perhaps our most realistic franchise type defector. But he's not a FA until 3 summers from now...So that means he'll be essentially LeBron's age in his last season with Miami (29) his first season with LAL.

How long do we think his game will last? Maybe until he's 32 (when historically most athletic guards legs go)?

Also, if Westbrook and Durant are anywhere near breaking up in the next two seasons...don't you think they'd trade Westbrook to keep Durant? So if we were to trade for Westbrook...can anybody think how we'd have enough assets to do so if in the meantime we owe one first rounder to Phoenix, and another to Orlando? And then still have enough assets to be a contender?

I for one would hope we build through a combination of the draft and free agency (not trades, unless somehow we can dump salary)...but trying to do so with a self-imposed ticking clock seems really dicey. This is why this summer is instrumental. Gotta get the right building blocks, now, because I don't think they have the balls to sit on their hands with sub-par short term deals next year if we strike out again.

Hope they don't do something stupid.

[TylersLakers]

Slava's post earlier in this thread was spot on with the way that Mitch Kupchak builds a team. I think, in between Jim Buss' "shoot for the stars" mentality is Mitch Kupchak's patience and finger prints all over this. Jim Buss sees that we need a major player to be successful in this market and Mitch understands the process of getting there, the process of accumulating pieces and making acquisitions that can surround those "shoot for the stars" player(s), provided we get one.

Anyone remember before we got Pau Gasol? We saw acquisitions like trading a 2nd round pick for Maurice Evans, signing Kwame Brown (instead of re-signing Caron Butler), investing mid-late first round picks into Sasha Vujacic, Jordan Farmar and Javaris Crittenton. More importantly, Lamar Odom. Despite numerous amounts of calls to trade him because he couldn't play second fiddle (my god, the amount of Odom for Jamison or Boozer trades I saw back then) to Kobe Bryant, he sat on his hands and waited for the right situation where Odom's talents could flourish. Dr. Jerry Buss saw the big picture and the "shoot for the stars" mentality that Jim Buss has now, but Mitch understands there needs to pieces that fit. He's testing those pieces right now and accumulating the right assets so we can have more success in the long run. It's frustrating to see players like Rondo, Green, Isaiah Thomas, Eric Bledsoe, and Greg Monroe go other places when we could have had them. But, we thought the same thing with failed Jamison (as mentioned above) trades and failed Jason Kidd trades.

The way Mitch is constructing this rebuild is very similar to how he did things after we traded away Shaquille O'Neal. The only difference is having a prime Kobe Bryant who could will an absolutely horrendous team to playoff contention. Obviously, we don't have that luxury anymore. Those little and confusing moves turned into players like Trevor Ariza (Evans, as mentioned above and Cook), and Gasol (Kwame, Crittenton). Those that proved they could fit and were going to be pieces to something greater ended up staying (Lamar, Vujacic, Farmar). We also had a top 10 first round pick that developed (Andrew Bynum).

There's a lot of similarities between those pieces and today's pieces. That top 10 pick (Julius Randle) is going to be counted on to have at least the impact that Bynum did. Players like Ed Davis, Jordan Hill, Wesley Johnson, Ryan Kelly, Ronnie Price, Wayne Ellington and Jordan Clarkson are going to have the opportunities to become those pieces that can fit around the major pieces. So, in my opinion and having a thinking based on what Mitch has done in the past, this is our best case scenario going forward.

1) Getting that "Major Player":

We're just going to keep on waiting and saving space if we don't get one. But obviously, this is a major step 1. Carmelo Anthony and LeBron were the candidates last off-season. Swing and miss, unfortunately. This off-season? Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Marc Gasol -- Hopefully we can land one of those guys. Maybe with Kevin Love's situation, he decided to pull a Dwight Howard from a few years ago and leave after one season. Los Angeles is a lot different then Cleveland. The Lakers (although in a down stage) are a lot different than the Cavaliers, especially to a California kid. As of right now, convince me he has any desire to stay in Cleveland. Maybe things change when LeBron gets healthy. Maybe the Cavaliers don't think he's the right piece to fit next to LeBron. Who knows, but we have a shot. So, I know the whole title of this thread was "realistic" but we're going to have to have some luck for this to go as we hope. Say, for example, we land a Kevin Love.

2) The Draft Pick:

A couple days ago I said on this thread that I didn't think it mattered if we gave the pick away to Phoenix this year. I was wrong, dead wrong. With the hope and plan that this off-season has, getting that extra asset is significant. Imagine if we do give the pick to Phoenix. That sucks. Imagine we then get Kevin Love. Wow, how much better would that be if we got that Top 5 pick? It matters big time. If we can swing for the hills and be successful with a free agent, adding in another huge asset around that major player would make the pot even more sweet. Also, if we land a major free agent, the pick that we get next year (2016 draft) isn't going to be nearly as good as this season. I'd rather give THAT 2016 pick away. Maybe things bounce our way (or get rigged that way) and we get Okafor or Mudiay. I won't go that far, but imagine if we pick #5, and pick a player like Stanley Johnson.

3) The Surrounding Pieces:

It's going to be a lot of trial and error with this. We saw that last season with Jodie Meeks, Chris Kaman, Kendall Marshall, Kent Bazemore. I imagine we'll have the same sort of situation this off-season. Personally, I think re-signing a player like Ed Davis, who could back up and start if necessary at both front court positions would be a good start. I like what I've seen from guys like Ronnie Price, Wayne Ellington, Wesley Johnson who would get small raises and be those pieces that could fit in. Developing Julius Randle is a significant priority and no doubt the biggest disappointment of this season. He'll be fully healthy going into next season with no long term health concerns. The stage is set for him to develop into a star. Ryan Kelly and Nick Young will be here, because those two are one of the only ones with guaranteed contracts. Tarik Black has an audition the rest of the season to show he can take over Jordan Hill's role. Also, given Robert Sacre's lack of improvement, you have to think we'll decline that team option for almost a million dollars and find someone else. We also have Houston's pick as well as a 2nd round pick (Top 40 protected). As Slava mentioned in his earlier post, Mitch tends to lean towards young(ish) players that have been passed over by previous situations. Now, the candidates in this year's free agent crop who fit that bill? Thomas Robinson, Austin Rivers, Josh Smith, and Brandon Rush. Imagine we land one or two of those guys.

So, our potential depth chart for next year with plenty of salary cap room to add on in 2016 with an advanced salary cap and Kobe's contract off the books. Hopefully, we can sign another major player in 2016 or a couple free agents who Kobe would feel comfortable sticking around for a run.

PG: Ronnie Price/ Jordan Clarkson/ Tyrone Wallace (Hou pick)
SG: Kobe Bryant/ Nick Young/ Wayne Ellington
SF: Wesley Johnson/ Stanley Johnson/
PF: Kevin Love/ Thomas Robinson/ Ryan Kelly/
C: Julius Randle/ Ed Davis/ Tarik Black

Not bad for a starting point. Now, I know Julius Randle is a bit undersized to be the C, but the reality is, the PF/C position these days have truly become interchangeable. We currently start Jordan Hill and Ed Davis, both guys barely scratch 6'10".. but the bottom line is, we're not going to pass up on getting Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge because.. ehhhh... we have Julius Randle. Kevin Love will become our floor spacer in the front court, Julius Randle is our down low guy. Both guys are great rebounders who know how to track the ball. Julius Randle is a big body inside.

That's my hope for the rest of this season and going forward. Going to take some luck, but we're the Lakers, and that's how it's always worked.

[crazyeights]

I don't like pairing Love with Randle on a team period, let alone in a lineup where one of them is the center.

Defensively that lineup might even be as bad as this year's.

I really wanted Kevin Love last summer, but after we drafted Randle, I hope he stays in Cleveland. I don't see how they'd work together at all. Also playing Randle at center takes away from his greatest advantage: his strength and quickness combination against other forwards.

[Penberthy]

Randle, like love is 6"7.75 without shoes on. They would be the shortest front court since integration. We would be better off playing Randle at 3 than 5. He has shown his quickness and athleticism and ability to play the 3. If 7 foot Kelly can play 3 under Byron, Randle can for sure. At 6'8 250 he will be able to take whoever is guarding him to the block whenever he wants. Which is much preferable to asking him to guard the 7'foot likes of Marc Pek Jordan Asik Pau Noah Bogut Duncan Kaman etc.

Jackson Lin Clarkson
Kobe Nick Clarkson
Randle Wes
Love Booz Kelly
Top5C Black Sacre Hou1st

[dockingsched]

Any combo of randle and love in the front court is going to result in bad defense, mostly cause Love is such a tough player to cover for.

My issue with building around Love is that defensively it's a tough task. He can't protect the paint and defend the post as a center and he can't get out and guard the pick and roll and get out to shooters as a power forward. That's what made bosh such a crucial part of the heats title runs. His agility and length made playing him at center with Lebron at pf such a good move when guarding he pick and roll.

Last thing, randle should never play sf. In a league where players like Lebron and melo have gotten accustomed to playing a huge chunk of their minutes at pf, players like randle have no business trying to move down in position to sf. Randle would be nothing more than a slow below average range sf who wouldn't be able to guard his position.

[crazyeights]

I think Randle could get away with certain match ups at SF, but he's an every day PF for sure.

For that reason, Ihink our cap space would be best utilized at upgrading C/PG/SF--in that order. We have a number of suitable PFs on our roster.

Here's just a hypothetical question (in the midst of this realistic thread): I've been wondering, how good this lineup would be?

Dragic/Lin/Price
Kobe/Ellington/Clarkson
Wes/Nick Young
Kelly/Randle/Boozer
Marc Gasol/Davis/Black/Sacre

[aaron_gray]

Randle doesn't have the shooting to play sf on offense.

[ALL HAIL]

I wouldn't "overpay" for anyone. You sign Jackson to a 14 mill per year deal and he'll be a burden.

I'd rather start someone on a bargain deal than roll with a guy like Jackson at damn near 15 mill per year.

Good, solid contracts are the key. Look at that Hawks roster. Every last contract is a good one. They could effortlessly trade anyone on that team for value within hours.

You've got to be able to trade guys.

You can't be "tied" to a guy because of their bad deal. Ask Detroit how that feels. As bad as Jordan Hill has been, for most people, the Lakers could trade him rather quickly because his deal is not bad.

The Lakers need guys with talent signed to attractive deals. I'd much rather have lesser talent signed to attractive deals thn the opposite.

[TylersLakers]

Yeah, all valid points, but let's get Kevin Love and then have the discussion about where to play them. Lol. Maybe Randle will come back an improved jump shooter and start at SF. Maybe he needs to back up at the F spots for a while. In that case a Love/Davis combo starting with Randle, Thomas Robinson, Tarik Black and Kelly off the bench would be good. But, if we have both Love and Randle, there's gonna be times when they play together.

[Penberthy]

I think Randle could get away with certain match ups at SF, but he's an every day PF for sure.

For that reason, Ihink our cap space would be best utilized at upgrading C/PG/SF--in that order. We have a number of suitable PFs on our roster.

Here's just a hypothetical question (in the midst of this realistic thread): I've been wondering, how good this lineup would be?

Dragic/Lin/Price
Kobe/Ellington/Clarkson
Wes/Nick Young
Kelly/Randle/Boozer
Marc Gasol/Davis/Black/Sacre

I like it but switch Randle and Kelly. Can't really imagine him trying to guard the Zbo's Griffin's and LMA's of the world.

[crazyeights]

I think Randle could get away with certain match ups at SF, but he's an every day PF for sure.

For that reason, Ihink our cap space would be best utilized at upgrading C/PG/SF--in that order. We have a number of suitable PFs on our roster.

Here's just a hypothetical question (in the midst of this realistic thread): I've been wondering, how good this lineup would be?

Dragic/Lin/Price
Kobe/Ellington/Clarkson
Wes/Nick Young
Kelly/Randle/Boozer
Marc Gasol/Davis/Black/Sacre

I like it but switch Randle and Kelly. Can't really imagine him trying to guard the Zbo's Griffin's and LMA's of the world.

Don't get hung up on the specific lineup. How good would that team even be?

[crazyeights]

Yeah, all valid points, but let's get Kevin Love and then have the discussion about where to play them. Lol. Maybe Randle will come back an improved jump shooter and start at SF. Maybe he needs to back up at the F spots for a while. In that case a Love/Davis combo starting with Randle, Thomas Robinson, Tarik Black and Kelly off the bench would be good. But, if we have both Love and Randle, there's gonna be times when they play together.

To that I'd say Davis isn't good enough defensively to compensate for Love.

And I agree with others that Randle can't play SF (for more than a few minutes at a time--and I say this because 95% of players play multiple positions at some point in the season, it's just not that many)...so a bench of Randle, Thomas Robinson, and Tarik Black seems redundant, IMO. Nitpicky, but I believe you need to have a versatile bench to provide situational assistance for matchup issues.

The main issue with any team with Love/Randle/Davis as your main bigs would be that we don't have an elite rim protector, or even a very good one.

I love Davis, but he should only start with another very good defender. Currently he's starting with an okay one in Hill and we're the worst/2nd worst D in the league. Love would only exacerbate that.

If we're trying to win a championship, we need an upgrade at center, at least defensively, but I'd argue we also need a better post-presence.

We don't need Love when we have Randle and Kelly. Love would be tying up max money that could be somewhat replaced by those two for a fraction of the cost. My two cents anyway.

[crazyeights]

Every player we signed this past off season was at a discount to their market value. Ed and Nick could have signed for more elsewhere, the rest of the guys were min besides hill, who is aruably outplaying his contract compared to other starting centers. For example horford is making 12 mil and blopez is makin 15 and they both average 14/6.5.
Also signing someone to the max in 2015 is going to look like a steal once the new CBA comes in with the huge TV deals.

If you want specific numbers, Hill is currently on pace to be worth 7.5 million or, 1.5 mil less than his contract while Horford is on pace to be worth 12.4 mil (.4 more).

Which site does these value calculations? Would be curious to check it out.

[Laker_Kid]

yeah with Randle, im over Love. better just let him develop. we desperately need an anchor at the C position and someone who can really run a team at PG. if only Lin and Price could be merged, that dude would fill that need. lol.

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