Going Forward:Kobe's Role

tugs · Post #41 » by **tugs** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 12:40 pm

With the current team make up, none suggested is happening. Post up, facilitate. Can't do that with a lot of ball dominant players.

Off ball and corner threes are the most plausible imo.

willywazza · Post #42 » by **willywazza** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 2:08 pm

Sigh... watching him play these days is like watching an old Alpha Wolf with multiple nagging injuries trying to hunt but falling flat in the snow each time.

However, he still keeps snarling and trying to bite at the prey's ankles but gets kicked back into the snow by their hooves each time....

Post #43 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 2:31 pm

Since we have Randle as our primary threat out to about the free throw line, unless Kobe can start hitting spot up 3s, there is no un-forced role for him in the starting lineup... Right now Lou Williams seems like the better option at that.
Kobe's post ups are essentially Randle's post ups as far as clock usage is concerned. We can have one or the other. And Kobe takes for ever to convert them at this point. Clarkson and Randle score more quickly/efficiently in those situations. If we can get Hibbert to crash the boards, we have a nice little triangle there. Or a Clarkson/randle PnR could develop into a deadly tool.
Hibbert needs to figure out how to help spread the floor and facilitate that though. He needs to get deep position early in the clock and play back to the basket to help the passing, then he needs to clear out if Randle gets in position to score and crash the boards after.
Russell just needs time I think... Next year, I think he could be our 1. But this year, his role is to hit jump shots and find Randle/Clarkson. Which he's shown he can sometimes do but not with any regularity.

Kobe/Lou/Young are essentially the same player and none of them are great right now. Kobe's per is actually pretty good, but I think Lou is the better option right now. Give him the nod and see what he does with it. Claim an injury for Kobe and let him work on his shot and rest his legs for a couple weeks. Trade Young (who's per is actually decent too) for some help at backup PF, SF, or SG.

Kelly and Sacre aren't bad players, but we're being forced to rely on them more than they're capabilities allow. They're both 3rd stringers in the NBA.
Bass has fallen off a cliff this season... Unless he get's his mojo back he's not very useful to us either... I wonder if trying to defend Randle in practice has crushed his confidence?

Hellcrooner · Post #44 » by **Hellcrooner** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 5:03 pm

kobe should get the kick up into some personel/gm/assistant coach role and thats it.
Please Mitch and JIm do not even think of signing him an extension, his salary already set us back 3 seasons.

Hank7 · Post #45 » by **Hank7** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 5:17 pm

Unfortunately, Kobe will do what Kobe wants. That's been the mantra since Byron has been coach. Frankly, I'd like to see him be more of a facilitator and a defensive leader, but that is not going to happen. His 21% 3-pt percentage especially hurts since we have a problem with getting back on defense. Actually, getting back on defense I think is a much bigger problem than Kobe's shooting percentage, and that's on Byron.

ArC_man · Post #46 » by **ArC_man** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 5:38 pm

He's gotta realize that he still needs to be more of a facilitator and get the ball moving.

ALL HAIL · Post #47 » by **ALL HAIL** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 6:11 pm

I make Kobe the "PG" and Russell his backup. Whoever plays better, finishes (on most nights that'll be Kobe).

Likewise, Williams and Clarkson should "split" minutes at off-guard. Whoever defends and shoots better finishes in the 4th. I tell them that they "have a shared agenda to accomplish: defense and sheer offensive aggression" and let them have at it. This should prove to be a rather unique platoon.

At SF, I'd split minutes with W.Peace, Nance, and Young (with W.Peace as the starter). WE NEED ANOTHER GARBAGE MAN IN THE FIRST UNIT.

Bass is my third big. He'd play center and PF with Kelly getting sloppy leftovers. Even though it has yet to be successful, I agree with Scott here. I hate the rebounding though (with all of his girth, 7'3 wingsoan, and athleticism, Bass ain't the best boarder. Kelly is an even more atrocious rebounder).

Black would get instant minutes if I felt like the rebounding premonition was coming true.

G-Bryant(24) Russell(24)
G-Williams(24) Clarkson(24)
C-Hibbert(28) Bass(28)
F-Randle(28) Kelly(10)
F-W.Peace(15) Nance(20) Young(15)

chefy12 · Post #48 » by **chefy12** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 6:19 pm

rich man's 3 and D player or poor man's pippen.

Post #49 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 6:59 pm

I think Kobe knows what his role is, he's just not effective at it right now. He always thinks his shot's going to fall, so when he catches, he shoots... If he makes those shots we probably win a couple of the last games.
The problem is Kobe's not the kind of player you simply bench when he isn't converting...
What we're really asking is that since the role he's supposed to fill isn't working, what new role should he have? Not sure there is one.
Maybe we could try him as primary distributor... Not optimistic, but maybe that has merit. 3 and D was basically what he was supposed to do and what he's trying to do... He just can't. So there aren't a whole lot of options. Backup Center/PF? If not a 4 or 5, we need everyone else to stretch the floor... A guy who's taking bad 3s and missing them, and can't defend very many people in the league, is pretty useless on this team. If we didn't have Randle, we could have Kobe be a post-3 or something like that and hold down the mid range... But we do have Randle.

BJGOAT3 · Post #50 » by **BJGOAT3** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 8:19 pm

I actually like Kobe's effort on the defensive end this season, unlike the last couple of years when he just didn't care. I think he wants to help and be a good influence on the youngsters.

However he is just extremely frustrated that he can't hit his shots. It is not going to get better either because he is so stubborn to make those specific shots that the defence is just all over him knowing that he won't take it to the paint or rotate the ball. He needs to get out of his own head and keep calm about his shot making, be more of an overall threat. Once this happens he will get his more open looks anyway. A decent coach would have helped Kobe about this...

His role should be helping the guys by allowing them to make more decisions on the court other than going iso or passing the ball to him. Except for when Huertas is on the court, all Lakers do is running an iso for Randle, Clarkson or Kobe. Scott needs to take a grip of this, if necessary put one of D'Angelo-Clarkson to the bench and have another floor spacer so that ball can move better instead of so many ball handling players. Clarkson and D'Angelo don't work out together on the court anyways.

This would allow Kobe to actually take a similar volume of shots with a better spacing. Running things through Randle more should also help if Randle is capable of passing out of traffic instead of consistently attacking it.

Jedi32 · Post #51 » by **Jedi32** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 9:40 pm

i think we are all so used to kobe being awesome that we forget the guy is coming off of two years of injury basically. it would take a guy in his prime more than 3 games to get back let alone a guy with 20 yrs in. i'll give it to the all star break to see how he's performing. other than that there's really not much we can hope for or do.

The Prodigy · Post #52 » by **The Prodigy** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 10:23 pm

Kilroy wrote:I think Kobe knows what his role is, he's just not effective at it right now. He always thinks his shot's going to fall, so when he catches, he shoots... If he makes those shots we probably win a couple of the last games.
The problem is Kobe's not the kind of player you simply bench when he isn't converting...
What we're really asking is that since the role he's supposed to fill isn't working, what new role should he have? Not sure there is one.
Maybe we could try him as primary distributor... Not optimistic, but maybe that has merit. 3 and D was basically what he was supposed to do and what he's trying to do... He just can't. So there aren't a whole lot of options. Backup Center/PF? If not a 4 or 5, we need everyone else to stretch the floor... A guy who's taking bad 3s and missing them, and can't defend very many people in the league, is pretty useless on this team. If we didn't have Randle, we could have Kobe be a post-3 or something like that and hold down the mid range... But we do have Randle.

If Kobe's trying to be a 3 and D player then he needs someone to explain that role to him better, because he's taking a lot of contested and off-the-dribble shots. If he stuck to taking open catch-and-short 3's he might be more effective on the offensive wend. When it comes to the defensive end, he's unfortunately a lost cause at this point. He's just not physically capable of defending perimeter players effectively anymore. He may be better off defending fours but length then becomes the issue.

tugs · Post #53 » by **tugs** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:48 am

Kind of depressing saying this but at this point, the only role I can see him be effective at, and to save his legs, is a Battier-Bowen type of role. Defend the best opponent and hit the corner 3, that's it. He won't be asked to do a lot offensively and at least you make him feel relevant by being the D specialist.

Let's make it an Ariza role since Kobe can do a lot more.

dipstick · Post #54 » by **dipstick** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 4:34 am

tugs wrote:Kind of depressing saying this but at this point, the only role I can see him be effective at, and to save his legs, is a Battier-Bowen type of role. Defend the best opponent and hit the corner 3, that's it. He won't be asked to do a lot offensively and at least you make him feel relevant by being the D specialist.

Let's make it an Ariza role since Kobe can do a lot more.

I think you may be overrating Kobe's D at this point. I don't think he can keep up with the opposing team's best offensive wings anymore. Besides, defending the best opponent won't really save his legs.

Speedlot · Post #55 » by **Speedlot** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 5:43 am

Don't overreact. Kobe also take all the shitty-offense bailout shots. If and when we run a better offense those shot attempts should go down.
Just 3 games. And game one he showed a lot of promise with his post game. I like him for his defense and his pacing. But he's not running the point as much anymore, so i feel his rhythm is off.

Believe in kobe amigos.

RingsDontLie · Post #56 » by **RingsDontLie** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 7:09 am

Need to give him at least 10 to 15 games to get acclimated to real games.

ardee · Post #57 » by **ardee** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 8:15 am

It doesn't matter what his role is. He has given this franchise his blood. If we lose a few more games because he decides to do as he pleases, so be it. We have no right to ask him to change anything.

Certain people in this thread sound so ungrateful.

Post #58 » by **Kilroy** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 3:21 pm

I think if Kobe stays healthy, he'll eventually start hitting those shots, but the problem is managing him on the nights he isn't hitting... Those 'heat checks' he takes have to be for real tho... And if there's no heat, there's no more shots.

Honestly, after thinking about this a little more, I think we need to get back to the place where we are all just hoping Kobe stays healthy, rather than trashing his play... It was bound to be a little rough.

Post #59 » by **Slava** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 3:42 pm

Its not just Kobe's role its the lack of ball movement or anything resembling a meaningful offense that's more frustrating. I could live with it if he is still taking 20 shots after the ball moves around and he finds himself with time and space to launch them. He'll start hitting those.

Fade away 3s with a hand in his face against a set defense with 17 seconds left on the lock is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word) basketball. No freaking wonder there he is shooting 30% overall and 20% from 3. Its not like he bothers to sprint on defense for the ensuing fastbreak either.

Byron's inability to coach a defense is bad, that's nothing new but we are handicapping ourselves with this ridiculous shot selection that leads to opponent breaks.

The Prodigy · Post #60 » by **The Prodigy** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 4:17 pm

Kobe has been an amazing player for this franchise and his work ethic and willingness to play through injury are admirable. With that said, let's not act like he has done all this out of the goodness of his heart. The Lakers-Kobe relationship has been mutually beneficial. The Lakers organization has mostly surrounded him with very good players that enabled him to become a 5-time champion and paid him handsomely into the twilight of his career.

Kobe is not beyond criticism if criticism is warranted. Right now, it's warranted.