With Bynum out the Lakers should really start Farmar

[Dexmor]

They should either go with 2 pg's and Kobe at sf or have Fisher off the bench. Walton should defenately be on the bench.
I would go with either 1 of 2 lineups

Fisher
Farmar
Kobe
Odom
Ronny- I would never play Kwame a minute

or

Farmar
Kobe
Ariza
Odom
Ronny

The reason I say this is because Farmar is much much improved and now is the Lakers third best scorer with Bynum down. He is averaging 9 points in 19 minutes or so and to me he clearly seems like a 15-18 point a game scorer if he got fulltime burn. He is like Bibby and Parker in there second year. As a matter of fact I am starting to think the Lakers should trade Critt and keep Farmar when I have always favored Critt.
Kobe needs help now bad. Odom stepped up pretty good last night but we know he is inconsistant and even if he wasn't is it enough? Bynum really helped Fisher's game but Farmar is a fast guard who can score no matter who he plays with. Kobe can't do it by himself and if Farmar got 35 minutes a game and I am right and he is a 17 point a game scorer which all signs show that he is a combo of Kobe/Odom/Farmar will be able to keep us a float until Andrew comes back.
I think we are all learning that Bynum is almost as valuable as Kobe being he is a big man and an allstar caliber player.

[LAKERLAW]

I could not agree more. I was just telling a friend last night that very thing last night during the game. With Bynum we are a big team and we played to that stregnth very well, well enough to take over 1st place in the entire West. However, with his injury and the fact that Kwame is becoming more a liabilty than an assest we must now play to our other stregnth which is our potent fast pace bench game. We should go small and we should go fast. That is the way we came back last night and that is the way our bench plays and they play it well.
Farmar
Fisher
Kobe
Lamar
Ronnie
Yes this is a small team and we will probably give up boards but its an energy packed lineup that can fill it up. Derek has to be more aggressive and this team is so energetic and young and unselfish they would play very well together. The downfall then becomes our bench. With Farmar and Ronnie moving to the starting lineup our bench will be
Sasha
Critt
Luke
Ariza
Kwame
and lord knows there is no offense at all there.
The fact is that Phil needs to realize that Kobe Fish Farmar and Ronnie have to play extended minutes for us to win. They are our most potent offense players and we lost last night because for the first times against the suns this year we were held to under 100 points. The first two games against them we avg, 120 points a game. Yes our d wasnt great - Susns shot 55% against us last night but young teams feed off their offense. If we can score that will corollate towards our defensive intensity on the other half of the court.

In saying all that - they reason why we have won so many games will be the same reason we will struggle until Bynum comes back: DEPTH. We won because we were deep. And with all these injuries we will lose because we lost our Depth. Its really a shame. However, its worth a shot to go small and run and extend the minutes of Fish Kobe Farmar and Ronnie and see what comes about.....thougths

[tnayrbrocks]

At this point you have to keep farmar on the bench. he creates everything for our second unit and it would be a big blow for fisher. To change the chemistry of the team and insult your veteran leader is only hurt the Lakers more in the long run.

[Kweli]

I disagree, I think Farmar is too valuable off the bench, and Fisher plays well with the starters.

I think the Lakers should start:

Fisher
Kobe
Ariza
Odom
Turiaf.

If you were aiming for a smaller lineup since we don't have Bynum, that is still a small lineup. Lamar isn't exactly a big PF, and Turiaf is undersized for center and can run with the team.

[Dexmor]

Kwame Brown has always been a liability. I like Phil Jackson as a coach but he is to stubborn. It's clear we have a guy on the bench that can be a second or third option and step up in Farmar but Phil is way to stubborn to play him. It's clear whenever we use Kwame Brown for extended periods of time by not just me but by so many Laker fans in the crowds, the nba guys like Steven A Smith, Bill Walton and so many others that Kwame Brown equals liability and losses but it for some reason is not clear to Phil.
To tell you the truth I never bought into the whole Phil is a great coach because he had great teams like MJ,Pippen, Rodman and then Kobe and Shaq and now this team pre Bynum injury but his stubborness of using Kwame so often and not using Farmar enough has really made me think he is one of the most overrated coaches of alltime. He has only won when his team was not only strong but one of the best alltime teams in history.

He might be a great x's and o's guy and he might be a great motivator and a great coach when it comes to managing players but a swear an 8 year old could do better with player rotations.
When Bynum went down he talked to Walton and Odom about how they need to step up. Does anybody else see something wrong with that? He should have talked to Odom yes but Walton is not that guy. He is the worst starting sf in the league and should defenately be a bench player. A good bench player but a bench player no less.
He should give Farmar that talk and make him a third or second option (I say second because Odom sometimes sleeps during games) and he should be starting Ariza who should be getting 12 shots a game and no less. Ariza with plays drawn for him and minutes could average 14-15 points a game. He one year averaged 8 or 9 points in 20 minutes.
It really should be

SG.Fisher 36 minutes 12 points 4th-5th option
PG.Farmar 37 minutes 18 points 3rd option
SF.Kobe 38 minutes 32 points 1st option
PF.Odom 36 minutes 20 points (he should be forced to take 20 shots and 14 of them from 10 feet in) 2nd option
C.Ronny- As many minutes as his heart can handle

Ariza 6th man but should be one of those 6th man that comes in no matter which starter leaves and a 6th man who plays 30 minutes and he should be getting at least 13 points and playing positions 2-4.

The rest

Luke Walton 20 minutes or so
Critt 20 minutes
Kwame Brown only in emergencies up to 15 minutes
Sasha 20 minutes playing positions 1-3

That is really it for this stretch without Bynum.

[J Rob]

Oh Kalel24, stealing my ideas and making a thread about it?

Star24 would've never done that!

Our deepest position is really starting to be our bane.

Personally, I think while Rad is injured we should just move Kobe to SF.

PG - Fish
SG - Sasha
SF - Kobe

or

PG - Farmar
SG - Fish
SF - Kobe

Sasha really got our offense going last night and without Radmanovic we need someone to hit some shots and stretch the floor.

[tnayrbrocks]

If that were to be our starting line up who would step up on the 2nd unit? Farmar is a so much more effective as a playmaker than walton it shouldn't even be suggested that walton will be the creator.

Walton was the 3rd option on this team last year, which is essentially what this team has become without Bynum. So, why is it ridiculous for Phil to tell Lamar and Luke to step up their games? I understand that you see the need of a 2nd playmaker in our starting line up but to leave the effective bench with no playmakers would kill chemistry.

Crittenton
Sasha
Walton
Ariza
Brown

is what i suspect your 2nd unit to be.... lol at that team putting up 20 points a night. It kills chemistry, and balance from the team to do it would be freaking stupid.

[Dexmor]

If that were to be our starting line up who would step up on the 2nd unit? Farmar is a so much more effective as a playmaker than walton it shouldn't even be suggested that walton will be the creator.

Walton was the 3rd option on this team last year, which is essentially what this team has become without Bynum. So, why is it ridiculous for Phil to tell Lamar and Luke to step up their games? I understand that you see the need of a 2nd playmaker in our starting line up but to leave the effective bench with no playmakers would kill chemistry.

Crittenton
Sasha
Walton
Ariza
Brown

is what i suspect your 2nd unit to be.... lol at that team putting up 20 points a night. It kills chemistry, and balance from the team to do it would be freaking stupid.

A bench is important but not as important as the starting lineup. You should always put your best foot forward. If your second best scorer goes down and you need a player to score 35 points a game to even have a chance at winning or in our case 48 just to beat the Sonics you need scoring in a bad way. Jordan Farmar is the answer to your scoring issues. The chemistry is all different and needs to be reformed anyway with Bynum down.
If Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse went down and there was no scoring on the bench would it be smart for Avery to bench Josh Howard and play him 20 minutes a game? No.
Even if they don't start Farmar they still need to change that starting lineup and have it Ronny,Odom,Ariza,Kobe,Fisher and they should play Farmar no less then 30 minutes a game.

Let me ask you something before I continue this, do you think with Bynum down Farmar is our third best scorer? because I do. And if I am right and he is our third best scorer and we just lost a ton of scoring and we are putting it on basically 1 player in an era where every team has at least 3 stars on there team we need to get our 3rd best scorer into the game more.

I underrated Jordan Farmar for a long time. When he first came out I overrated him which actually turned out to be dead on accurate but I usually do that with the Lakers rookies but back to what I was saying Jordan Farmar is very underrated. He is our third best scorer our second or maybe even first best passer, one of our best playmakers and he is very versitle. He is extremely athletic and smart and crafty like a 10 year vet. He is very good defensively and very quick. He is a pure pg but has the scoring ability to change into a spark plug like we have seen and be a short scoring guard almost like Ben Gorden in a way. He can run our team, he can let Fisher just try and get open for the 3 and he can make plays for all of our players who can't make plays for themselves like Ariza, Kwame, Ronny, Radman and basically every other player besides Kobe. He can be that guy. He is clutch cool under control and extremly high bball IQ. If we never got Fisher this year I believe with Farmar running the team fulltime we would have been just as good.
Even if putting Farmar in the starting 5 makes us small at every single position it is still worth it.

Maybe if your so worried about the bench we can have Luke and Fisher come off the bench which I think would actually work out pretty well and is where the ultimately belong anyway.

Farmar
Kobe
Ariza
Odom
Ronny
Bench
Luke
Fisher
the rest of them

Is a much more potent offense and offense is what we need right now with Bynum out. It's a much better team. Replace Ariza with Luke and Farmar with Fisher not only do we become younger more athletic and better defensively we become better offensively and you can't not do that because your worried about your bench. The bench is important but not more important then the starters and your overall plan of attack.

[Tommy Trojan]

I disagree, I think Farmar is too valuable off the bench, and Fisher plays well with the starters.

I think the Lakers should start:

Fisher
Kobe
Ariza
Odom
Turiaf.

If you were aiming for a smaller lineup since we don't have Bynum, that is still a small lineup. Lamar isn't exactly a big PF, and Turiaf is undersized for center and can run with the team.

[Dexmor]

Even if you guys don't read that whole post answer this question

With Bynum out do you think Farmar is our 3rd best offensive player?
I personally think the list goes like this in order of best players on our team

1.Kobe-This was a tough one lol
2.Bynum
3.Odom
4.Farmar-without question and with minutes could move to 3.
5.Fisher-
6.Ronny
7.Walton-Better then Luke at everything besides the 3 and passing
8.Critt after the break will move to 6 or so with minutes maybe even higher
9.Sasha
10.Radman
11.Mihm
12.Karl
13.Gasol
14.Sun
15.Kwame Freaking Brown, worst player in the league and he starts by choice of the sopposed best coach ever.

With the list being the way it is they need to get Farmar in the game more, bottom line. No less then 32 minutes starter or not. When Bynum comes back he could go to 25 or so but for now they need him.
I heard the guys saying Critt is the future starting pg for the Lakers and I believed that to up until about 2 weeks ago. I am starting to wonder if Farmar is better choice. If we didn't run the triangle Farmar would be hands down the choice but I know Phil loves that height.

[trippy]

They had stretches where Kobe did move to the 3, and that was in the 4th quarter when they were kind of catching up. But making such moves as Farmar starting and Kwame on the bench should just be specific adjustments versus certain teams. Whether we like it or not, we're going to live and die with Kwame for the next how many games. If you get a trash player to step up, good things happen. Against smaller line-ups, maybe yes to 2 PG's. But you gotta think about the minutes at PG, SG, and SF that would be used if you do make that adjustment.

[Dexmor]

Well the whole Kwame thing I can't talk about anymore. He literally makes me sick.

Back to Farmar, even if we don't start him which we should he has got to play at least 35 minutes like Ben Gorden. Besides with Fisher's bulk he can easily play sg espially with his style of defense. The sg's might even be easier for him to guard. Plus Kobe is guarded by the best of the 2/3 every game anyway and he is a tremendous rebounder for a sg espially in the clutch.
Farmar is also a great rebounder for a pg. He only averages 2.5 but that is in half a game when most pg's do that for a whole game. With double the minutes he could be one of those pg's who get 5 boards.
Farmar is our best 3 point shooter by far, our best real pg (Fisher is more of a shooter and not a playmaker).
Farmar can easily lead us in steals with fulltime and he is a good on the ball defender as well. He doesn't gamble and let the oppisition get free layups.
I know you can't just double the minutes and automatically double the stats like a math problem but it seems obvious to me if he got fulltime minutes 37 or so he would be a 17 point 6 assists (which would lead us) and 4-5 boards.
He would be our second or third best player with Bynum out but Farmar can be a borderline star.
He would be on our team

1st in 3point %
2nd in scoring
1st in assists
2nd in steals

and when your as terribly thin as we are right now you can not under any curcomstances (spelling) even if Fisher is a leader or you have to go small but you can not have your second best scorer and second best guy at making people better maybe even first go down and not play your pg who can be a young Mike Bibby but smarter.
His only weakness is free throws.
Hell last game alone if you are not sure you agree with my arguement just look at last game, only 23 minutes he scored 16 points, 4 steals, 3 3pointers, 4 assists and 3 rebounds. Imagine he played a whole game 37 minutes or so he could have easily had a 25 point game. With him having 20 point games Kobe having over 30 a game and Odom stepping up with 19 they can be extremely dangerous.
Right now they are not dangerous. Jordan Farmar can be our answer and he is right freaking there. No trades, no signings, no paperwork, nothing but saying #5 get in there with 10 minutes left in the first.

Play Farmar.

[Dexmor]

If there is only 1 player in the starting 5 who can consistantly create for himself and others and you have a young stud who can do both you play him, bottom line. Who cares if you have to go small. It worked for the Bulls last year. They are not losing because of there backcourt it's because of Ben Wallace being such a bust. Who would have thunk it.
Although Ben Wallace would be a great solution for our problem if the Bulls want to unload him we should look into trading Kwame for Ben. I would even throw in Luke if I had to to get it done. Ben would also be the perfect player to put next to Bynum and defenately the perfect player for him to go against in practice. He can still play some D and not just 1 thing on defense like Kwame.

[Gus McCrae]

those are good points; i think he's better to lead the 2nd unit but you're close to convincing me. His #'s per minute would probably decrease though playing against the starting unit instead of the bench; but that is a decent argument.

[large1974]

In the Triangle Offense you Run the Two guard front Two Fowards and a Center. To get technical there are no positions in the triangle offense, only spots.

Line should be:

1. Fisher
2. Farmar
3. Kobe
4. Ariza
5. Ronnie (at least but not Kwame)

[Dexmor]

In the Triangle Offense you Run the Two guard front Two Fowards and a Center. To get technical there are no positions in the triangle offense, only spots.

Line should be:

1. Fisher
2. Farmar
3. Kobe
4. Ariza
5. Ronnie (at least but not Kwame)

That's true but watch your spelling or the people here for some odd reason will give you hell for it. I know they are weird here but what board has more traffic?
Anyway Odom has to start. I agree with you Ariza needs more time but I am on the fence about him starting but not because of Walton but like you I think Fisher and Farmar can play together. There aren't really positions in the triangle but the bottom line is you need certain things like a guy who can create open opps which is what a pg does. With the offense exposed and everybody realizing we are not extremely deep and the reason why we were winning is Andrew Bynum is a top 3 center in the league. He is a top 10 big man overall in the league. I wouldn't trade him for any big man in the league including Howard or Ming. It would be Lebron or no deal.
I don't understand how Phil Jackson and some of the people here can possibly think Farmar is not a starter. If we had any other coach besides Phil Jackson Farmar would be mip the second option on offense for the next 6-8 weeks and be in the allstar debates or actually the list of very good pg's who are close to allstars. The pg position is so incredibly comptetitve with Paul, Nash, Davis. Those guys all should be on the allstar team. Paul is the best pg followed by Nash and then Davis. Parker would probably be 4th on the list.
If the Lakers were serious about making a deal they would have played Farmar his rightful minutes be a second year player with 17 5 5 with 2 steals and we could have probably packaged him and Kwame for an allstar and still would have had Fisher, Critt and Sasha. We probably could easily get Artest for Farmar and Kwame, maybe even throw in Radman and get Miller or something.

Farmar should be a star right now but isn't only because of Phil Jackson. He can save us this year but Phil Jackson has had a mental block when it comes to player rotations these past couple of years. Maybe his best days are behind him and it's time for Shaw to take over?

[Tommy Trojan]

Star you got me with this one. WHat does Bynum have to do with Farmar? I don't understand.

I think you meant with Bynum out let's start Ronny, right?

[brandonkb8]

geez one loss and you guys go to panic mode.....no farmar should not be starting because he is a tremendous spark for us off the bench why change a good thing...we were the number one seed in the western conference before the suns game hahah u guys crack me up....BUT DAMNET WHY ISNT ARIZA STARTING OVER LUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LLcoleJ]

geez one loss and you guys go to panic mode.....no farmar should not be starting because he is a tremendous spark for us off the bench why change a good thing...we were the number one seed in the western conference before the suns game hahah u guys crack me up....BUT DAMNET WHY ISNT ARIZA STARTING OVER LUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you actually read the posts or just comment ?

[crazyeights]

Star you make some good points about Farmar.

I've always wondered why he isn't given more responsibilities. Seriously, he's one of the few gamers other than we have on this team not named Kobe. I think he's very mature and is ready for some big time play.

Last night he showed just how quick he is. He was able to hang with Barbosa alright. I think it's time he gets more offensive opportunities that aren't just shooting threes. I'd love for him to drive at least 4-6 times a game, his runners are money, and that will cause the defense to collapse when he can kick it out to guys like Fish, Kobe, or Sasha.

Also yesterday showed how much we're missing our shooters. Sasha has nearly been forgotten in this 7 game winning streak, but when our starters are struggling to score, and our bench is ravaged from the strain of injuries, it's great to remember we have a gunner like Sasha.

I am looking for Vlad to bounce back from injury and return to form. Those wrists should hopefully be well-healed by then. And maybe, just maybe (though I highly doubt it) Mihm will leave his cement shoes in the training facility and be able to show us that offensive repertoire he used to display.

The next few games will be interesting, because we definitely need a change in lineups. I know Phil likes guys to go through growing pains, but it's not about people failing, it's about not giving the right people responsibilities. Kwame is going to walk most likely after the season, whereas Farmar should be our future starting PG.

Groom away.