Finals: Mamba Vs. Pierce

[Kirk Moon]

I think Pierce clearly outplayed Mamba in the series, and Im not talking about the numbers.
His all around performance was stunning.

Honestly, I never thought he was that good.

[cdubbz]

I agree and so will everyone else. Kobe really had a super sub-par series and it was strange to watch. Usuaully kobe wont have more than one bad game if any in a series, but he just didnt play like himself at all. All aspects of his game were not there...he had bad turnovers, his defense wasnt great and even his dribbling wasnt great. Im glad that paul pierce and the others get national spotlight and kill it.

[LarBrd33]

yes, that's "The Truth". To somewhat borrow a line used so frequently by the Laker fans in the last couple weeks... "When the Lakers chant "MVP" it's a wish... when the Celtics chant "MVP" it's a reality"...

No, but really. Let me be serious for a second. I'm not gloating. Pierce is a great player, but nobody outside of Boston would dare say he's better than Kobe. This wasn't Kobe's fault. That Celtic defense is insanely good. Kobe's FG% dropped to 40% in this series. But to be fair to Kobe, LeBron dropped from 48% in round one to 35% against the Celtics in 7 games. That defense is just epic. If Pierce was going against that kind of defense, there is no way he'd play that well.

The fact is, the Lakers were always rather overrated by the media in this series. They were a good team, but they could have easily lost to the Spurs. And although the West was really competitive, I think the top 3 teams in the East were better than any team in the West and the true finals happened between Detroit and Boston in the ECF. Honestly, I think the Lakers would have lost to the Cavs or Pistons also. As good as the Laker offense was, they had not played a defense as good as the Celtics/Cavs/Pistons. And you can scoff at the regular season record the Cavs put up, but LeBron was a different beast than Kobe and that Cleveland defense was vastly superior to anything the Lakers threw at us (and arguably better than even Detroit).

You guys have a lot of reasons to be optimistic. If everything works out with Bynum as expected, the Lakers might have a chance of getting out of the West again next year. A lot can happen between now and then, though and I think you'll have some really good teams to get through. We'll see what happens. Maybe Celtics/Lakers again next year. Good series.

[snaquille oatmeal]

yes, that's "The Truth". To somewhat borrow a line used so frequently by the Laker fans in the last couple weeks... "When the Lakers chant "MVP" it's a wish... when the Celtics chant "MVP" it's a reality"...

No, but really. Let me be serious for a second. I'm not gloating. Pierce is a great player, but nobody outside of Boston would dare say he's better than Kobe. This wasn't Kobe's fault. That Celtic defense is insanely good. Kobe's FG% dropped to 40% in this series. But to be fair to Kobe, LeBron dropped from 48% in round one to 35% against the Celtics in 7 games. That defense is just epic. If Pierce was going against that kind of defense, there is no way he'd play that well.

The fact is, the Lakers were always rather overrated by the media in this series. They were a good team, but they could have easily lost to the Spurs. And although the West was really competitive, I think the top 3 teams in the East were better than any team in the West and the true finals happened between Detroit and Boston in the ECF. Honestly, I think the Lakers would have lost to the Cavs or Pistons also. As good as the Laker offense was, they had not played a defense as good as the Celtics/Cavs/Pistons. And you can scoff at the regular season record the Cavs put up, but LeBron was a different beast than Kobe and that Cleveland defense was vastly superior to anything the Lakers threw at us (and arguably better than even Detroit).

You guys have a lot of reasons to be optimistic. If everything works out with Bynum as expected, the Lakers might have a chance of getting out of the West again next year. A lot can happen between now and then, though and I think you'll have some really good teams to get through. We'll see what happens. Maybe Celtics/Lakers again next year. Good series.

good post, I wont even say anything about the ribbing because the Celtics and their fans earned it.

as far as the topic, if you switch Pierce to the Lakers and Kobe to the Celtics, the Celtics would have still won. they are the better TEAM, it is simple as that.

we have been saying all along that the Celtics are built for now and the Lakers are built for the future. we simply were not ready for a championship, heck we were not even suppossed to get to the finals just yet. the good news is that making it to the finals is a hell of way to start our chase for the chips in the up comming years. barring the Gasol trade (which came as a consequence of Bynum getting hurt) the Lakers only made 2 medium up grades in Ariza and Fisher. now that Gasol is here and with us getting Bynum back next year we still need to make a couple of more moves (that would also include a defensive assistant coach) and we will be set.

[That Nicka]

I agree to an extent, Paul Pierce is definitely an amazing player. I just think our team peaked too early and the Celtics peaked at exactly the right time. Ray Allen was not an All Star for the first two rounds... He woke up when you guys needed him most and that was huge for you guys.. You can say we could have lost to the Spurs... but we beat them in 5 games... I think our guys werent ready for the intensity of the Finals and just ran out of energy... Odom and Gasol were zombies for half of the games. That's why I am glad to have the experience under our belt... I think now that they know what it takes and have gotten their asses handed to them they will be ready next year

[Gek]

You can't compare this match-up because it was Mamba vs Celtics and or on defense Mamba vs Pierce + 2 screens

[Ctrey]

As a Boston fan, I must admit I was terrified for the whole series that Kobe would go off. He is a GREAT player but the C's had a an amazing team defense concept for him in this series. They played outstanding D and that won the series. The Lakers will always be in it with Kobe around, he is just a great force on the court.

[milesfides]

Nah, two completely different situations.

The entire Celtics' defense was geared towards shutting Kobe down, and forcing other players to beat them. And their defense has proven to be absolutely stifling all year, all playoffs.

Pierce was mostly single-covered by the likes of Radmanovic and Walton.

If Kobe had been guarded by Vladimir Radmanovic and Luke Walton in the playoffs, he would have averaged 81 points a game.

[FukaX]

Hats off to celtics defense
they managed to lock down both lebron and kobe.

[LarBrd33]

Yup I agree. The Lakers are just a crappy defensive team. The Cavs were able to pretty much shut down Pierce and Ray until the final game of the series. Really I don't think it's about Mamba vs Truth. It's about the Celtics being a vastly superior team and crushing the Lakers in 6 games. As great as the Laker offense was in the regular season, they would have also lost to the Cavs and Pistons. The media doesn't seem to be jumping on board with this yet, but as much as they want to paint it as "west is best"/"east is least", there seems to be a really drastic difference in the way the east and west coast teams played defense this year. West in general has more good teams, but the East is pretty top heavy. It explains why the Celtics were 25-5 against the West this year. The true finals was basically Detroit/Boston... and LeBron proved that with a solid defense and his overpowering greatness he could match up with any team in the league.

Bynum should help you guys some, but you can't look at one 20 year old kid coming off an injury as some "savior" who is going to get you 72 wins. What the Lakers need is an entirely different defensive mentality. The Celtics (on the road at least) had a tougher time scoring against the Hawks.

[LarBrd33]

Hats off to celtics defense
they managed to lock down both lebron and kobe.

This is true. The difference is that LeBron is so big and so retardly strong that even though they were closing the penetration lanes he was still able to power himself in on occasion despite excellent defense from Pierce (who is pretty big as well). He shot a terrible percentage (35% compared to Kobe's 40%), but was still aggressive enough and strong enough to get himself to the line 90 times (compared to Kobe's 49). It's a big difference. LeBron certainly pushed the Celtics to the limit. He had 42 in Game 7 and it took an equally impressive 41 from Pierce for the Celtics to get by that beast of a superstar.

Kobe's a great player, but he can't use overpowering strength and size to compete against a team like the Celtics. When they forced him into jumpshots that's what he was stuck with taking. It was definitely an unpredictable playoff for the Celtics. The Lakers were unquestionably the easiest opponent we faced (the Hawks played out of their minds at home and the Celtics temporarily lost their regular season edge at that point) . Nobody predicted that.

[That Nicka]

I can see the Lakers possibly losing to Detroit... I honestly, I cannot see the Cavs beating them in a 7 game series... Regardless, the Lakers wont be the same pushovers on defense next season with Bynum manning the paint

[Fencer reregistered]

Kobe is a slightly superior scorer to Pierce from anywhere on the floor -- 3-pt, mid-range, or at the rim. If the numbers say otherwise, that's just because of the rest of the teams.

They're comparable passers. Both are good at the swing pass, or on the pick and roll. Neither will ever be confused with Magic Johnson or even Jason Kidd.

They're comparable rebounders. It's tough to judge from the numbers, since that's so much a factor of teammates, but I don't think there's a significant difference.

Pierce is, reputations notwithstanding, comparable to Kobe at defense. At various times he's shut down every opposing wing player in the league, from late-stage Jordan onward.

Pierce is the superior team leader. Both guys have matured a LOT over the years, but Pierce has never had Kobe-at-his-worst's negatives, and I'm not aware of any advantages Kobe has over Pierce to make up for that.

Both are superbly conditioned, but asked to do so much at both ends of the court that they falter a bit under the burden.

[milesfides]

^I'd disagree.

Since the Celtics have won the championship, I'm sure it's easy to magnify Pierce's past. How was he a great leader? KG was the MVP candidate for the Celtics. I've read that Ray Allen has had a big effect on Rajon Rondo and others, and KG's intensity has been infectious. I haven't read too much about Pierce's leadership in this season or in the past.

Didn't the Celtics have one of the worst records in the league last year? In fact, wasn't the Celtics struggling for quite a while? Wasn't Pierce lobbying for a trade?

And you can call it defensive reputation, but the fact is that NBA coaches choose All-NBA defensive teams. They see these players up close, they coach them and coach against them. Kobe has been an 8-time All Defensive team member. Pierce hasn't made one defensive team.

He did play fairly good defense on Kobe in stretches in this series, but I'm not that impressed. Who was he guarding for most of the time? Radmanovic. That should get him rested. Kobe had to do a lot for our team, and he was always working on defense, doubling KG, chasing Allen, etc. He had a lot of responsibilities. If Pierce can play good defense consistently, that's a different story. But he hasn't, so to say right now, since the Celtics won the championship, that Pierce must be as good of a defender as Kobe because he played pretty good defense during some sequences, is quite a stretch.

If you want to compare leadership qualities, one just has to look at Team USA. Once Kobe came on that team, it was clear that he was the top dog - and instead of indulging in the self-centered destructiveness that plagued the past few Team USA's, he took it upon himself to be the defensive stopper of that team. His willingness to sacrifice his game (as he did when he played next to Shaquille), his willingness to do the dirty work (as he did when we won championships), and to set an example by working hard and committing to the team was one of the biggest differences in last year's Team USA, which went undefeated.

On the other hand, Paul Pierce was a member of the 2002 Team USA, which suffered a humiliating 6th place finish. Pierce was the top scorer for Team USA though, so I guess you could say Pierce led Team USA to sixth place.

And the clutch factor isn't close. Kobe has a long list of clutch performances, and numerous game-winners. That's why the call him the best closer in the game. Pierce, on the other hand?

I don't want to sound like I'm Pierce-bashing. He's a legit all-star. He has an all-around game. But his track record hardly shows great leadership, in fact, the other way around, and this year, I think it would be a grave disservice to transfer KG and Allen's leadership to Pierce.

And he had a great series, but he played a role. The Lakers' defense wasn't geared to shutting down one player. We were more worried about Kevin Garnett. And without taking away from Pierce's performance, he was largely guarded by two poor defenders in Radmanovic and Walton. I'm not surprised Pierce had a nice series, but he was one cog in a very well-oiled machine. KG was huge defensively, Allen made some back-breaking shots, Posey was absolutely murder with his daggers, PJ Brown and Perkins beat us up in the middle, Rondo was an assist machine and a terror on defense, Sam Cassell, Powe, House all had their moments. The Celtics won the championship because of great team defense and great team execution. Everybody knew their roles and executed them.

And really, it comes down to what people know about basketball and the players. Even when the Lakers had been struggling for the past few years, most analysts, pundits, players and coaches recognized Kobe as the best player on the planet. Even when the Celtics were beating the hell out of the Lakers, they still recognize Kobe as the best player on the planet. Regardless of what happens on the Lakers, people still recognize Kobe's talent and skills.

When Pierce was on the Celtics and they were struggling, to put it bluntly, he was just not on anybody's radar. He was irrelevant to most of the league.

When the Lakers were struggling to make the playoffs, Kobe was still doing crazy things like averaging 40 for a month and dropping 81 points.

To compare Pierce to Kobe...you can't. And while Pierce is the most recent champion, Kobe has three rings.

[Fencer reregistered]

Pierce has a long list of clutch shots over the years. Even as late as last season he was hitting one game winner after another until he went down to injury and the wins stopped period. He also has had crunch-time blocks and stops against Jordan, TMac, et al.

Leadership is not something at which he's a natural; the skills have come to him late. But the Game 4 half-time "Follow me, boys" speech seems to have been a classic

[c2asante]

...if you switch Pierce to the Lakers and Kobe to the Celtics, the Celtics would have still won. they are the better TEAM, it is simple as that.

Excellent point. Paul Pierce and his team simply wanted it more than the lakers and showed more heart and desire. The lakers have talent to match up with anyone but they never fully matched Boston's intensity, especially on the defensive end.